So when can we expect an official answer ZOS?

WraithAzraiel

I get that it's the holidays, most are/were out of the office. But I know you guys have been seeing the rumors flying through the rumormill. IGN, Kotaku, Yahoo News. All have been feeding the "OH NOZ F2P" fire.

You've skipped 3 Monday Maintenance. As usual, the only posts we see with an official ZOS stamp is the ones telling us to stop being mean.

Put us out of our misery or at least acknowledge that there's a problem.

ADDENDUM:

You know, when you come into the office on monday. Just figured I'd post this while I was thinking about it. Friendly reminder.

TO ALL WHINING ABOUT POSTS LIKE THIS:

Long walk, short pier.

Teiji

What's the problem? Game has seemed pretty stable for me today, pve and pvp.

Ramtaku

They've admitted they have a problem. The outcome has likely been turned over to a higher power at this point.

ers101284b14_ESO

When they feel like it as usual. It's one of the things I like about them.

Guppet

They did not answer during the holidays and your now asking it on a Sunday? Are you for real?

dharbert

I swear, you people are worse than kids. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

Bloodystab

dharbert wrote: »

I swear, you people are worse than kids. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

WraithAzraiel

Guppet wrote: »

They did not answer during the holidays and your now asking it on a Sunday? Are you for real?

Oh what? The post is mysteriously going to disappear tomorrow? What? Is it going to turn into a pumpkin at midnight?

It's a forum post. Take a hike.

WraithAzraiel

dharbert wrote: »

I swear, you people are worse than kids. Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

And what do you mean "YOU people?"

On a serious note, what's wrong with asking for clarity? Given the fact so many are asking.

You'll thank us when an answer comes.

Ourorboros

So when can we expect an official answer ZOS?

What's the Question?

Artemiisia

ill thank eso, when the answer comes, not you Wraith

they talked about PTS 1.6 going live in this month, so making alot of fixes for the normal game, with such a big patch coming soon, might be doing more work then necessary, so they wait with all the small patches maybe

WraithAzraiel

Ourorboros wrote: »

What's the Question?

How much woodchuck, chuck wood while woodchucking for chuck wood?

Razzak

My guess is tomorrow. But I am more interested in what they will say. If Sage will be or was the one to dictate what it's going to say, you can be sure it will not be anything good. That man detests players in general, especially if they have the nerv to use official forum.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

they probs are not putting out any small fires 1.6 is a new game build, probs with all the fixes in it, lets just wait and see and as far as f2 bloody play i wish these tightwads who keep going on about just go away or be like an ostrich and go stick there heads in the sand

WraithAzraiel

Razzak wrote: »

My guess is tomorrow. But I am more interested in what they will say. If Sage will be or was the one to dictate what it's going to say, you can be sure it will not be anything good. That man detests players in general, especially if they have the nerv to use official forum.

Hah outstanding. Somehow some way we should turn this into a drinking game. Though I'm pretty sure if we went shot for shot with each wordsmith'd response from ZOS about player problems, the playerbase would be dead of alcohol poisoning 6 times over.

Guppet

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

What's the Question?

How much woodchuck, chuck wood while woodchucking for chuck wood?

Epic FAIL

Its how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood!

To add to that-

I'm not a pheasant plucker, I'm a pheasant pluckers son and I'm only plucking pheasants, till a pheasant plucker comes!

WraithAzraiel

Guppet wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

What's the Question?

How much woodchuck, chuck wood while woodchucking for chuck wood?

Epic FAIL

Its how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood!

NOOOO my life! she are ruinaterated! Welcome to the insanity homeskillet, we've got punch and pie!

PS: the answer is LOTS!

Ourorboros

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

What's the Question?

How much woodchuck, chuck wood while woodchucking for chuck wood?

Dude, if you're gonna hijack my post, at least give me an LOL.

WraithAzraiel

Ourorboros wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

What's the Question?

How much woodchuck, chuck wood while woodchucking for chuck wood?

Dude, if you're gonna hijack my post, at least give me an LOL.

I give you better than LOL.

Rydik

So when can we expect an official answer ZOS?
Answer to what? Rumors from nowhere? ... =\
I want much bigger LOL button for this thread...

miahq

Honestly I do think they've got a problem with no good solution. The only official figures for subs I've seen put it at around 770k or so, and I think they went up a bit after that, but then came the big bug storm. So that figure likely includes a lot of people who've stopped playing until the game improves.

Why is that number a problem? Just look at swtor, they opened at 1.7 million subs, but once that fell below a million they dropped p2p, and they also said they'd need at least 500k active subs to remain sustainable with that model. That doesn't put zos in the best position.

Especially since they've managed to turn off a lot of the Elder Scrolls market they were hoping to attract by moving too far into the traditional MMO format-- something that I think came across pretty well in most of the reviews-- and with the MMO crowd and those who've stuck with it it's been bugs, half thought out concepts like cyrodiil, and a host of other problems. Champion is absolutely their attempt to fix that, at least with the current subscriber base, but they also got the console problem coming up.

If you stick with a p2p model then you're absolutely going to hurt console sales. And from being on these forums it seems like moving to a b2p model-- or worse a f2p model, would scare off a huge chunk of the PC crowd. So do you keep the sub model and risk console sales, or do you drop it and further *** off a big chunk of your PC/MMO market?

Regardless, if the champion system falls flat I doubt it will matter. They're clearly hoping it will turn the game around, so if fails the game is just going to go b2p. If it succeeds then they may win back a lot of people, and decide to ride out the console sub problem, relying on the strength of the game to encourage people to pay up.

Personally, I don't think their changes from champion are going to do it. Ultimately they're too cosmetic, and it doesn't do much do change the lack of good end of game content. To do that you need more sandbox, to give people more reason to interact with the world and not just go mindlessly from one quest grind to the next. So far the game sticks too close to the same linear theme park style used by a lot of MMOs, and that doesn't really fit well with what they're trying to do with champion.

ers101284b14_ESO

miahq wrote: »

Why is that number a problem? Just look at swtor, they opened at 1.7 million subs, but once that fell below a million they dropped p2p, and they also said they'd need at least 500k active subs to remain sustainable with that model. That doesn't put zos in the best position.

Every MMO loses at least 60-70% of initial people within the first 3 months. So if it followed normal MMO trends then within the first 3 months SWTOR would go from 1.7 million to to 510,000. SWTOR would then have still had to have a decline afterwards.

Now the number we got from Superdata at 772,000 was already after the initial 3 months and before the steam sale. So that would mean ESO initial sales where around 2.5 million. Considering again normal MMO trends only about half of the beta testers would have bought the game. There where 5 million beta testers so that would make sense. But ESO is still gaining subs.

But all that would make sense and actually uses logic and trends to predict what has happened so....
OMG F2P!!!!! The World is DOOMMMMMEEEEEDDDD!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgWBu83Coks

miahq

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Why is that number a problem? Just look at swtor, they opened at 1.7 million subs, but once that fell below a million they dropped p2p, and they also said they'd need at least 500k active subs to remain sustainable with that model. That doesn't put zos in the best position.

Every MMO loses at least 60-70% of initial people within the first 3 months. So if it followed normal MMO trends then within the first 3 months SWTOR would go from 1.7 million to to 510,000. SWTOR would then have still had to have a decline afterwards.

Now the number we got from Superdata at 772,000 was already after the initial 3 months and before the steam sale. So that would mean ESO initial sales where around 2.5 million. Considering again normal MMO trends only about half of the beta testers would have bought the game. There where 5 million beta testers so that would make sense. But ESO is still gaining subs.

But all that would make sense and actually uses logic and trends to predict what has happened so....
OMG F2P!!!!! The World is DOOMMMMMEEEEEDDDD!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgWBu83Coks

First of all even as a made up statistic the idea that all MMOs lose 60-70% of it's initial subs in the first 3 months is just laughable. If your MMO sheds 2/3 or more of it's players in three months that's a pretty good sign of a failed MMO. Just because swtor is still around and people play it doesn't change the fact it was a failed MMO. They expected to sustain those numbers, and when it dropped below a million they changed models.

If you want to throw in steam sales, then maybe we should start by acknowledging that eso has actually performed pretty lousy on steam. 39% of customer reviews are negative, and it doesn't even break the top ten of games played on steam.

Or how about just the fact they've essentially acknowledged many of the problems, and the fact they're currently working to redo the entire end game experience. Let that just speak for itself as far as how well the game has done.

Cody

What you ask for is impossible, as the ZOS staff are all impulse spamming chimps who lag out the server..

hahahahahaha. im sorry, Columba is getting to me. Man that guy is funny:)

ZOS will put it out on the PTS, I and the other people who are stupid enough to test it will test it, our reports will be ignored... I'm sure you know how it goes.

Spottswoode

miahq wrote: »

If you want to throw in steam sales, then maybe we should start by acknowledging that eso has actually performed pretty lousy on steam. 39% of customer reviews are negative, and it doesn't even break the top ten of games played on steam.

Well, in regards to Steam...
http://store.steampowered.com/app/209650/

Bad reviews don't have a massive effect on the sale of games on Steam. Granted, Call of Duty could probably sell boxes of *** matter as bonus content. But the majority of Steam sales either happen on releases or during special sales. I myself bought the Steam version of ESO during the most recent holiday sale.
Also, for your consideration: http://store.steampowered.com/app/65980/?snr=1_7_7_topsellers_150_9
If you have to ask why I picked those titles, look at the first page of top sellers.
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=topsellers&os=win#sort_by=_ASC&sort_order=ASC&filter=topsellers&os=win&page=9
The game (ESO) is also on page 9 of the the top sellers. Now, yes, Oblivion is outselling it. It's still selling. I don't think anyone expected the game to sell fabulously well on Steam or at mininum, to perform one quarter as good as it did at launch. But it will accumulate some sales over time and bring in some subscribers. If ZOS can turn around the perception of the game, it could actually do pretty well on Steam.

miahq

Spottswoode wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

If you want to throw in steam sales, then maybe we should start by acknowledging that eso has actually performed pretty lousy on steam. 39% of customer reviews are negative, and it doesn't even break the top ten of games played on steam.

Well, in regards to Steam...
http://store.steampowered.com/app/209650/

Bad reviews in no way affect the sale of games on Steam. Granted, Call of Duty could probably sell boxes of *** matter as bonus content. But the majority of Steam sales either happen on releases or during special sales. I myself bought the Steam version of the game during the most recent holiday sale.
Also, for your consideration: http://store.steampowered.com/app/65980/?snr=1_7_7_topsellers_150_9
If you have to ask why I picked those titles, look at the first page of top sellers.
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=topsellers&os=win#sort_by=_ASC&sort_order=ASC&filter=topsellers&os=win&page=9
The game (ESO) is also on page 9 of the the top sellers. Now, yes, Oblivion is outselling it. It's still selling. I don't think anyone expected the game to sell fabulously well on Steam or at mininum, to perform one quarter as good as it did at launch. But it will accumulate some sales over time and bring in some subscribers. If ZOS can turn around the perception of the game, it could actually do pretty well on Steam.

I'm not trying to say no one is buying it on steam, just that it has t exactly been a bonanza. But, you're right about trying to turn around the perception. That was a big part of the point I was trying to make, and that's what they're trying to do with champion and some other updates/fixes before console sales start. So if their effort succeeds, it could improve sales and resubs and they could stick with the p2p model. But if it bombs, then they're going to shake things up, that will likely mean changing models.

Even if you don't take getting rid of the six month sub option as a sign it's going b2p, the fact that people weren't interested in the 6 month sub isn't a very good sign. At best it's neutral, at worst it means people are hesitant to invest in the game long term and are a bit more cautious. If games were better about releasing sub numbers it would be easier to say, but from what we do know-- the three month sub numbers that came in around 770k, those aren't great numbers for such a huge title.

Voodoo

I vote. "LOL"

Huggernaut

miahq wrote: »

Honestly I do think they've got a problem with no good solution.

Ya, a big part why I cancelled my sub today.

AngryNord

Huggernaut wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Honestly I do think they've got a problem with no good solution.

Ya, a big part why I cancelled my sub today.

Stuff can be sent in-game to @AngryNord if you're on EU server

WraithAzraiel

Rydik wrote: »

So when can we expect an official answer ZOS?
Answer to what? Rumors from nowhere? ... =\
I want much bigger LOL button for this thread...

Uh oh.

Me thinks somebody didn't do their research.

There was a link for it on Yahoo of all places. Link led to an IGN article. Other threads are quoting site like Kotaku and PC Gamer, bandying about the same rumor. All spurred on by the removal of the 6 month subscription option, and the lack of release of subscriber numbers since the game's launch.

Also, so there's no misunderstanding. I'm not asking for an official answer because my continued play relies on it. I've already stated multiple times I'm in for the long haul.

F2P or not.

So those of you thinking this is another whine and moan thread from someone stomping their feet and leading with empty threats - get over yourselves.

I'd just like a little clarity. I want to know what ZOS' official thoughts on the rumor are.

Would they address them without this thread? Probably.

Will they address them expressly because of this thread? Likely not.

But it's existence is necessary.

Are we likely to get a wordsmith'd response that raises more questions than it gives answers? If past statements of clarification are any indication, it's an absolute certainty. Seems wordsmithery is ZOS Standard Operating Procedure.

Now, unless you have anything else to add, click your LOL button. Go find a mirror, smile at and pat yourself on the back, and go about your day.

Ourorboros

Seems wordsmithery is ZOS Standard Operating Procedure.

Um, this is hardly unique to ZOS, it's pretty much what most corporations, all politicians, and more than a few job seekers do. Don't get me wrong, I've been calling on ZOS to 'put up or shutup' ever since they made the statement about transparency and improved communication. But I'm realistic enough to know that few companies come clean without holding their feet to the fire. IF we get a response, it will be just what we should all have come to expect by now, long on pleasantries, short on information.