30 vs 300 CP at 1.6 launch ---Why It doesn't matter how much you give us:

GreyBrow

We will get the CP eventually, and the power gap will remain. All you're doing is postponing the gap for a couple months, at best, and royally pissing off quite a few LOYAL, long suffering players.

GreyBrow

My two cents: A plain and simple, irrefutable fact:

A VR1 does not deserve 30 CP, if 30 CP is the amount of CP that a person with three VR14s deserves.

To say otherwise is to say that someone who spent 100 hours playing deserves the same reward as someone who spent 1000 hours playing.

If you're going to sit there and tell me that you think the above statement is not true, then I'd really like to have the emperor skill line, even though I didn't put in the work required to get emperor.

Maybe if I QQ'd enough on the forums about a power gap and a disparity between Former emps and normal players I'd get my way. How about it guys? Emp buffs for everyone?

Please and thanks!

Northern_Wolfling

No one DESERVES cp at the start of the system in 1.6. They give it to everyone higher than Level 50 so you can try it out more quickly than first having to earn points. They don't take away anthing yet, you get something on top.

When they remove veteran later however, yes, higher vr ranks should be compensated in some way! No one knows how that will work yet, so it is all speculation.

What makes a vr14 anyways?

-better stats
-more skillpoints
-better gear
-should be more experienced in playing the game (that part isn't up to zeni)

Skillpoints are not really connected to veteran or champion, so they will probably remain. (120 vs 300 skillpoints is a big difference, especially if you are a crafter, or want to change roles)

I hope they make gear work well, so you still have the best gear there is, if you had it before. But nothing is said about that yet. But I think gear, mob strenght and itemlevels wil be a critical point in update 1.7 or later... If they manage that former vr14 players are still ahead of vr1 players the don't take away here, too.

They could let you keep your stats/resourcepoints, you have earned while leveling VR. That would be a permanent (!) boost, since new players wil NEVER be able to get them in the futer. ...So I doubt they will do that. :-/ So I think that will be the real VR-nerf. But stats seem to change a lot in 1.6 anyways. So let's see what happens.

So yes, I think former vr14 players will still be the best players in the game and continue to be. And probably will earn cp faster than the the average or casual player. As it was said in the original post, the gap will be there. It's intended and good!

I think what the real mistake was to tell people, they track xp and it WILL be converted into cp. (vs we think about it, but are not sure yet how it works). That is not a dev problem, but a HUGE comunication mistake. I think THAT is the real problem. Imagine, they never said that? The rage would be way less....
Stuff like that does lower the credibility a lot!!! :-(

BBSooner

It doesn't matter, really. So going berserk about the amount matters just as little.

Time to deal, cupcake.

tplink3r1

The same argument can be used to justify a complete removal of character
progression.
+1 lol.

RainfeatherUK

Being that I've been a way from the game for some time (various real life things), I'm perhaps slightly biased towards the angle of less concern. After all I've not invested the hours that some have.

That aside though, I was under the impression that with the way the system is derived; the initial point investment is of a higher value than consecutive ones that you add. Because of a depreciation.

So an intial 30 point 'field' to bring everyone else into the same ballpark with the new system, whilst the vet one is still in 'limbo', doesnt seem that bad to me initially.

Honestly I'd expect some amendment at a later date (when the vet system is fully phased out) on behalf of those who have legitimately invested time and effort.

Also, in this transitional period, im not sure if its all that wise to deal in absolutes. Especially considering past bugs and issues, exploitation and a lack of certainty about the playerbase (and what demographics will influence it) in the future.

If anything I imagine ZoS are uncertain too. Because there are alot of good voices and opinions (from different perspectives) on the forum and all they can really do is try and pull the best from it.

Considering the amount of effort it takes to rehaul, change a games direction, im willing to give them time on it. But certainly, as I've said - I dont have the hours that some do.

If anything I wouldnt want people jumping the gun. Theres a massive lack of information out there with the silence. If one thing can change, so can another.

TheShadowScout

Meh, I am getting a little tired of all those discussions.

Yeah, sure, rewards for time played would be neat, but no matter how they do it in the end, if like the current 30 C-points or if they decide to change their minds again and give out some more points for vet ranks once those go away...

Thou shalt deal with it.

I know I will.

AlexDougherty

lifthrasir85 wrote: »

No one DESERVES cp at the start of the system in 1.6. They give it to everyone higher than Level 50 so you can try it out more quickly than first having to earn points. They don't take away anthing yet, you get something on top.

You seem to have missed a key aspect here. It's not so much that we should have the points, it's more that the quests needed to earn the champion points (CPs) will have already been completed.

It they gave us the option to reset those quests, so the VR14 characters could earn CPs as easily as someone who has reached level 50 after the launch of the champion systrem then we wwould have far fewer complaints (some but less than we have now).

Northern_Wolfling

I get that part... But they rather should add new pve content soon then, so you can earn cp by questing and not only by grinding or pvp.

If they would reset the quests, would you want them to take away your skillpoints you have earned with these quests, too? I wouldn't.

At least you can progress now, while before 1.6 gaining xp was no use, since you already maxed out progression.

AlexDougherty

lifthrasir85 wrote: »

I get that part... But they rather should add new pve content soon then, so you can earn cp by questing and not only by grinding or pvp.

If they would reset the quests, would you want them to take away your skillpoints you have earned with these quests, too? I wouldn't.

At least you can progress now, while before 1.6 gaining xp was no use, since you already maxed out progression.

Well new content would be nice, but that takes time to create, which is part of the problem. But you are right about the skill points, I admit I forgot about them, that makes resetting the quests impossible.

Unless they just create a trial version of them (no skill points but you can re-earn the XP for the Champion system) but even that seems problematic.

Audigy

AlexDougherty wrote: »

lifthrasir85 wrote: »

No one DESERVES cp at the start of the system in 1.6. They give it to everyone higher than Level 50 so you can try it out more quickly than first having to earn points. They don't take away anthing yet, you get something on top.

You seem to have missed a key aspect here. It's not so much that we should have the points, it's more that the quests needed to earn the champion points (CPs) will have already been completed.

It they gave us the option to reset those quests, so the VR14 characters could earn CPs as easily as someone who has reached level 50 after the launch of the champion systrem then we wwould have far fewer complaints (some but less than we have now).

The issue with resets is simple, you already gained Gold and Equipment - there is simply put no way to reset this. Also it would impact everyone, maybe some players don't want a reset as they only do group Content?

I am also not sure if earning those CP is that easy while you quest. Its a lot of traveling, while a dungeon is pretty straight forward so is grinding or a trial.

In the end it hopefully wont matter what someone does, all activities should grant 1 CP every 4 hours without enlightenment bonus.

AlexDougherty

Audigy wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

lifthrasir85 wrote: »

No one DESERVES cp at the start of the system in 1.6. They give it to everyone higher than Level 50 so you can try it out more quickly than first having to earn points. They don't take away anthing yet, you get something on top.

You seem to have missed a key aspect here. It's not so much that we should have the points, it's more that the quests needed to earn the champion points (CPs) will have already been completed.

It they gave us the option to reset those quests, so the VR14 characters could earn CPs as easily as someone who has reached level 50 after the launch of the champion systrem then we wwould have far fewer complaints (some but less than we have now).

The issue with resets is simple, you already gained Gold and Equipment - there is simply put no way to reset this. Also it would impact everyone, maybe some players don't want a reset as they only do group Content?

I am also not sure if earning those CP is that easy while you quest. Its a lot of traveling, while a dungeon is pretty straight forward so is grinding or a trial.

In the end it hopefully wont matter what someone does, all activities should grant 1 CP every 4 hours without enlightenment bonus.

I did say the OPTION to reset. The gold and items are not really much of an issue, since most of it is junk, and you can earn gold and drops from grinding anyhow, especially the daily challenges.

But as Lifhrasir said the skill points shoot the idea out of the water, so it's a no go anyhow.

Sord

just make another toon to 50 to redo that content should be easier since you have already done it.

Slurg

Can someone please post where someone at ZOS said that we will all be awarded CP at the exact same rate for the exact same activities XP is awarded for right now?

Because if you can't, all your crying is pointless. For all we know, dancing naked on tables as a VR 14 could award you the same number of CP as completing a VR 1 level quest would. .

Fat_Cat45

lifthrasir85 wrote: »

I get that part... But they rather should add new pve content soon then, so you can earn cp by questing and not only by grinding or pvp.

If they would reset the quests, would you want them to take away your skillpoints you have earned with these quests, too? I wouldn't.

At least you can progress now, while before 1.6 gaining xp was no use, since you already maxed out progression.

They stated in eso live that XP from repeatable forms of experience are getting buffed, like dungeons and daily quests. For the most part questing through a zone has naturally been slower than killing enemies in mass, and this pushes that further.

And if you're so worried about some vr1 being able to do Cadwells then realize they're still vr1 because they dont play as often. If it were someone trying to quickly level an alt they wouldn't be doing VR zones anyway, they'd go straight to craglorn.

That vr1 will not be on as frequently and as a result the champion point disparity between that vr1 and a vr14 will continuously grow until the elitists are finally happy

Northern_Wolfling

They didn't. XP will probably change so it takes roughly 4 hours to get a cp, be it grinding, questing, dungeons or pvp...

So if you don't like questing exclusively, you should be fine. New quest content soon would be great though for vr14 questlovers! :-)

TehMagnus

Totally correct. Noobs will still be noobs. All they are doing is pissing off dedicated players

Northern_Wolfling

@Fat_Cat45 I totally agree with that.

Sylvyr

It's almost like a new beginning without character wipes. If they did that it'd be like beta is over. Actually, maybe they should do that. It's been like beta this whole time. Still millions of gold out there from dup bug, tons of emps from the old emp farm serevrs, tons of earned xp through exploitive grinding. Why not just wipe the slate really clean?

Inklings

Slurg wrote: »

Can someone please post where someone at ZOS said that we will all be awarded CP at the exact same rate for the exact same activities XP is awarded for right now?

No one is saying ZoS said this. NO ONE at all but you.

Slurg wrote: »

Because if you can't, all your crying is pointless. For all we know, dancing naked on tables as a VR 14 could award you the same number of CP as completing a VR 1 level quest would. .

That is NEVER going to happen. You know that, or maybe you are just trolling?

kongkim

More what more... you still have better stats and gear.

Inklings

GreyBrow wrote: »

We will get the CP eventually, and the power gap will remain. All you're doing is postponing the gap for a couple months, at best, and royally pissing off quite a few LOYAL, long suffering players.

A couple months is being very generous. At the end of the first week this it will be very noticeable. You are right though, all they are doing is punishing the most dedicated players. Its really sad that people dont see this for what it really is, a way to make a fast buck. People will see it as chance to flock back to this game and be on the same par as when they left, but wont stay in the long run. Its nothing more then a cash grab. Those players after their month is up will still be so far behind hardcore players and the subscriptions will drop like flies after those first 30 days of 1.6 going live.

Slurg

Inklings wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Can someone please post where someone at ZOS said that we will all be awarded CP at the exact same rate for the exact same activities XP is awarded for right now?

No one is saying ZoS said this. NO ONE at all but you.

Slurg wrote: »

Because if you can't, all your crying is pointless. For all we know, dancing naked on tables as a VR 14 could award you the same number of CP as completing a VR 1 level quest would. .

That is NEVER going to happen. You know that, or maybe you are just trolling?

That's my point! NO one at ZOS ever said CP points were going to be awarded the exact same way and rate XP are right now. But every whine post assumes that they are, and that max level characters have therefore missed out (before the system even starts) on ways to earn them.

None of us know yet exactly how and at what rate CP will be earned in the new system. So the gazillions of whine threads are just speculation. The idea that dancing on tables will earn you CP is no more ridiculous than the idea that you can max out CP by grinding (promoted in another thread) with the information we have now. We don't know until it comes out on PTS!

I think when it's released there will be plenty of ways for everyone to earn CP. But I am convinced by the repeated whining and refusal to listen to reason that the real issue is most of you think you have a right to "win" the champion system before it even starts. It'a a brand new game mechanic where everyone starts at the same place and that's just the way it is.

Inklings

@Slurg‌

They told us it was being tracked and we would be rewarded for it. They said 95% of the players wouldn't reach that CP cap. Quit saying they didnt. Their may have not been parameters stated but that doenst change the fact that the player base were lead to believe there would be a system put in place to reward people for their past progression.

They told us to keep playing we would be rewarded for it. Myself and MANY others most likely would have not paid/played the last 3 months if this was not the case. Whether the decision in pulling this 180 on tracked xp was honest or it was not doesnt change the fact that players got shafted out of money they might have not wanted to spend on this game. It doenst change the fact that players put faith into those words focusing on gaining xp, taking time away from other ways they could have advanced their characters.

If you think this is fair, you're wrong. If you think this capped CP is whats best for the game you wrong. If you want to call debating and pleading our cases "whining", not only are you wrong but you don't understand why we have these forums. This is one of the ways we need to voice our opinions to get things changed. Sitting silently until the next 2 patches will not get things changed.

onlinegamer1

Inklings wrote: »

@Slurg‌

They told us it was being tracked and we would be rewarded for it. They said 95% of the players wouldn't reach that CP cap. Quit saying they didnt. Their may have not been parameters stated but that doenst change the fact that the player base were lead to believe there would be a system put in place to reward people for their past progression.

They told us to keep playing we would be rewarded for it. Myself and MANY others most likely would have not paid/played the last 3 months if this was not the case. Whether the decision in pulling this 180 on tracked xp was honest or it was not doesnt change the fact that players got shafted out of money they might have not wanted to spend on this game. It doenst change the fact that players put faith into those words focusing on gaining xp, taking time away from other ways they could have advanced their characters.

If you think this is fair, you're wrong. If you think this capped CP is whats best for the game you wrong. If you want to call debating and pleading our cases "whining", not only are you wrong but you don't understand why we have these forums. This is one of the ways we need to voice our opinions to get things changed. Sitting silently until the next 2 patches will not get things changed.

+1

Amsel_McKay

Inklings wrote: »

@Slurg‌

They told us it was being tracked and we would be rewarded for it. They said 95% of the players wouldn't reach that CP cap. Quit saying they didnt. Their may have not been parameters stated but that doenst change the fact that the player base were lead to believe there would be a system put in place to reward people for their past progression.

They told us to keep playing we would be rewarded for it. Myself and MANY others most likely would have not paid/played the last 3 months if this was not the case. Whether the decision in pulling this 180 on tracked xp was honest or it was not doesnt change the fact that players got shafted out of money they might have not wanted to spend on this game. It doenst change the fact that players put faith into those words focusing on gaining xp, taking time away from other ways they could have advanced their characters.

If you think this is fair, you're wrong. If you think this capped CP is whats best for the game you wrong. If you want to call debating and pleading our cases "whining", not only are you wrong but you don't understand why we have these forums. This is one of the ways we need to voice our opinions to get things changed. Sitting silently until the next 2 patches will not get things changed.

it seems that everyone who is VR1 reached the 30 CP cap. If you are level 49 you did not reach that cap...

Slurg

Obviously it was not right for someone at ZOS to phrase conceptual design plans from three months ago in such a way that people interpreted them as promises. But I really don't think it's reasonable for people to expect to come out well ahead on a new game mechanic before it even starts. I don't believe a lot of things til I see it in patch notes. Sometimes not even then.

What's been decided is done - what I'm saying is it doesn't matter if I like it, you like it or anyone likes it - but at some point you have to move forward! Wait and find out what gives the best CP and if you don't like it tell them that. Save your energy for giving constructive feedback that may influence future development! Suggest ways that ZOS can compensate you that don't involve a one to one point switch, since they say they aren't doing that. Saying it's not fair over and over and over again in the forums doesn't get anything done.

TehMagnus

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

@Slurg‌

They told us it was being tracked and we would be rewarded for it. They said 95% of the players wouldn't reach that CP cap. Quit saying they didnt. Their may have not been parameters stated but that doenst change the fact that the player base were lead to believe there would be a system put in place to reward people for their past progression.

They told us to keep playing we would be rewarded for it. Myself and MANY others most likely would have not paid/played the last 3 months if this was not the case. Whether the decision in pulling this 180 on tracked xp was honest or it was not doesnt change the fact that players got shafted out of money thought have not wanted to spend on this game. It doenst change the fact that players put faith into those words focusing on gaining xp, taking time away from other ways they could have advanced their characters.

If you think this is fair, you're wrong. If you think this capped CP is whats best for the game you wrong. If you want to call debating and pleading our cases "whining", not only are you wrong but you don't understand why we have these forums. This is one of the ways we need to voice our opinions to get things changed. Sitting silently until the next 2 patches will not get things changed.

+1

+1

onlinegamer1

Lets do some math. (Yay, math!)

ZOS said you gain 1 CP per hour while Enlightened, and Enlightenment grants 4x XP gain (400%). So, un-Enlightened you'd gain 1 CP per 4 hours. Taking the median, lets say you can gain 1 CP/2 hours. Fair? OK.

Let's also say that a "hardcore" gamer will play 8 hours every day (note, "hardcore" not "I literally have no life other than ESO")

Update 1.6 is launched. People have either 0 or 30 CPs.

Day 1: Some people still have 0, some still have 30, some have up to 34.
Day 2: 0, 30-38
Day 3: 0, 30-42
Day 4: 0, 30-46
Day 5: 0, 30-50

So, in a mere 5 days, there will be a 20 point gap between those who even HAVE champion points, and a 50 point gap between totally new players who have no VRs when 1.6 goes live and those that do.

Can we just all agree that 5 days is utterly trivial, and just award extra CPs based on how much XP/VR Levels players have per my suggestion here:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/144432/feedback-1-6-problems-with-30-cps-and-new-ultimate-generation-zos/p1

kieso

If I were ZOS I'd give everyone 0 at this point.

Amsel_McKay

kieso wrote: »

If I were ZOS I'd give everyone 0 at this point.

Or just give everyone max (or the option) so they can be "finished" and leave