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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/508927/

PvP and the Problem with Plants and Potions

RoamingRiverElk
RoamingRiverElk
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Situation:
  • Tristat potions (Panacea of Health) and Panacea of Spell Power are atrociously expensive currently. Craglorn guild merchants sell them for 14k and even 15k nowadays.
  • PvP players are pretty poor if all they do is PvP (and use that AP they get for siege). No, Rewards for the Worthy is not much more than slightly welcome spam that regularly clogs your inbox.
  • To be the most competetive in PvP, you need potions.
  • Plants needed for the most commonly used potions are extremely rare in Cyrodiil.

That *one* time you actually spot a nice flower, that speed-buffed Alma Ruma scroll is getting just away from your reach, though you still hold onto that desperate hope deep inside of you that if you just run a bit more, a bit faster somehow, if that enemy ahead of you would just trip over, get stuck on a rock, ANYTHING, you could shield charge / critical charge / ambush / streak / DK leap to them.
Well, at least if you had had that Panacea of Speed potion... Too bad, now the rest of them caught up to you. Better luck next time, back to the base!

PvE players need those powerful potions for trials, which leads to crowding in one of the best farming locations in all of existence: The Hollow City. So there you streak, run, ride around in a circle, the same houses, NPCs rolling past round by round... And you are competing with that irritating Arena title wearing Former Emperor who just *has to* pick the flower you were going to pick but couldn't, because dismounting from your horse just took one tenth of a second too long. At least you're gaining a new appreciation for all the level 49ers who are actually *supposed to be* in this area, unlike you. They are no threat to you. That v14 is. This is PvP without the chance to really show them how much you disliked the fact that they picked that Lady's Smock, but left the Blessed Thistle and two Wormwood right there. Have they no sense of responsibility?!

Solution:

STAGE 1
Introduce three bountiful areas to Cyrodiil which are at least as lucrative as The Hollow City is, preferably nicely between keeps but slightly out of the normal routes of travel from one keep to another. Perhaps a little more bountiful than The Hollow City - considering that this time, there is actual risk involved. You can get killed.

But you know... chances are, you will also be able to attack that person in the distance crouching to pick that Columbine that was cleARLY YOURS FROM THE MOMENT YOU SAW IT! You saw it first! Yes, get off of it, here, taste this!

And check this out... resource towers just got a whole new meaning... Introduce big, ancient structures with choke points, where nature has taken over and such nice flowers grow... Alchemist's table that creates *slightly* stronger potions... And oh, what's that? Yes, yeeees... that looks like a nice place for placing a pot of oil...

STAGE 2
If the first stage works (and I see no reason why it wouldn't)... New PvP mode: The Flower Arena. Looots of flowers. Every alchemist for themselves. FIGHT!

...
But I'm serious about Stage 1. Do it, ZOS. Just do it. Introduce those new flower areas in Cyrodiil. Simply increase nodes there to resemble The Hollow City, if nothing else.
Dalris Aalr - Magicka (Stamina) DK | Dalfish - Magicka Sorc | Dal Aalr - Magicka Warden | Dalrish - Mag/Stam NB | Irana Aalr - PvE Templar
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    I don't see why not . Does anyone else ?
    Roechacca NB DC
    Jurassic Punk Sorc DC
    Stelios Rhodes Templar DC
    BEEATINGYOU Stamplar DC
    Bromkar StamDK DC
    Guild Leader KungFu DC
    Guild Officer LynchMob DC
  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    Situation:
    • Tristat potions (Panacea of Health) and Panacea of Spell Power are atrociously expensive currently. Craglorn guild merchants sell them for 14k and even 15k nowadays.
    • PvP players are pretty poor if all they do is PvP (and use that AP they get for siege). No, Rewards for the Worthy is not much more than slightly welcome spam that regularly clogs your inbox.
    • To be the most competetive in PvP, you need potions.
    • Plants needed for the most commonly used potions are extremely rare in Cyrodiil.
    1) Agreed but that's the price players pay for having access to Potions on as low as a 15s CD.
    2) Sell Shadow Walker Rings when you get them in your bag for ~50-75K each along with a few other items (some can be bought at Elite Vendor) and be Poor no more.
    3) Refer to #1.
    4) Nope, those plants are not any more rare in Cyro than anywhere else, it's just that Cyro is gigantic. I see them all the time when I'm in Cyro running around getting Skyshards on my lowbies. Granted I can't remember seeing any right near or inside Keeps but still.

    I don't see any reason why ZoS needs to make additional node spawns all over Cyro that are specifically for Bugloss, Columbine, Mountain Flower, Lady's Smock, Corn Flower and Water Hyacinth. Conversely, if you purchase the mats yourself you can get the price of a stack of pots down to 8-11K. Ofc, as a Crafter I'm not against ZoS dotting the land far and wide with nodes of every kind.
    Shadow is where the truth lies.
    Legerdemain - The path to Thievery
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    It is not a big problem for me. I make my own potions, pick my own flowers(mostly in craglorn just after logging in while i wait in cyrodiil queue).

    Also, i am trying to train myself to not hammer the potion key. Only use a tristat in a close fight if it looks like it will make a difference, when low on stamina use a stamina potion instead of tristat, etc. etc.

    Having specific potions for specific stats(instead of just using tristat for everything) also has the benefit that when i go flower-picking, many of those i find are useful rather than just columbine bugloss and mountain flower. Dragonthorn, blessed thistle and water hyacinth make a great stamina pot, wormwood corn flower and lady's smock a great magicka pot, etc.
  • Kromus
    Kromus
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    Make tripots and soulgems free for all while in cyrodill and let the games begin!
  • Domander
    Domander
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    I'd like to have my own garden.
    Edited by Domander on December 30, 2014 12:09PM
  • Xupacabra
    Xupacabra
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    when you check price of the potions take a look at price of the plants... potions need 3 diferent plants and water.
    Chupacabra with rage @ EU server AD faction Thornblade home
  • Pancake-Tragedy
    Pancake-Tragedy
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    I love it. This idea needs to happen, ASAP. In my opinion, only 1-2 bountiful areas need to be implemented and should be based on the population in cyrodiil at that moment. This way enemy factions can fight over the rights to the flower patches and would be in constant demand but can't be farmed endlessly on a buff server.

    If this doesn't happen, maybe make this happen in the Imperial City?
    Edited by Pancake-Tragedy on December 30, 2014 12:53PM
    Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer
  • Eglath
    Eglath
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    So let's introduce new areas to farm AP!... ekhem, I mean flowers. Seriousely I already imagine all those zergs hiding to bat-impulse-whateverelse every one who comes for a lovely flower.
    Aside from it it's nice idea, but maybe introduce a chance for plants in Rewards For The Worthy.
    Vinyamar - AD vr14 sorc RANK: 30
    RAGE Core
    Abandoned Legion Officer
  • Manoekin
    Manoekin
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    I love it. This idea needs to happen, ASAP. In my opinion, only 1-2 bountiful areas need to be implemented and should be based on the population in cyrodiil at that moment. This way enemy factions can fight over the rights to the flower patches and would be in constant demand but can't be farmed endlessly on a buff server.

    If this doesn't happen, maybe make this happen in the Imperial City?

    That's the only reason why it won't happen... buff servers. Thought of this idea a while ago, but didn't think they'd be able to make dynamic farms based on population or anything. I'd be okay with just having them off to the side of outposts since that's where a lot of action happens anyway. I figure if they put them in the Imperial City, make the City a single server coming from all campaigns, and cap the population inside of it there would be no problem. I'm guessing someone will tell me all of the problems with that now though lol.
    Alacrity, RÁGE
    Founder of: Estoy Aqui, NaC
    Imperial Templar

    World First Dragonstar Normal and Veteran Modes
    World Fastest Aetherian Archive and World Second Hel'Ra Citadel
  • Jahosefat
    Jahosefat
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    I would like an alternative to the hollow city; and/or a way to get potions/herbs in cyr (at a rate similar to that of the hollow city).
    Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer

    Fight not with monsters lest ye become one
  • Soris
    Soris
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    Agree.

    And

    Hallow City got the ghost nerf. Flower spawns are sooo rare. Dont go there
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    faernaa wrote: »
    Agree.

    And

    Hallow City got the ghost nerf. Flower spawns are sooo rare. Dont go there
    They're no more rare now than they always have been in Hollow City. I've been farming it for Alchemy since shortly after launch and the only thing that has changed are I don't see bots under the map farming anymore and there's MORE players there than there used to be. I can hop on an alt (pre-saved Hollow City) and make 3-5 complete circles and end up with a dozen or more Columbine, Mountain Flower, Bugloss, etc in a relatively short time.
    Shadow is where the truth lies.
    Legerdemain - The path to Thievery
  • Soris
    Soris
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    Sssshh
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • Stilliko
    Stilliko
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    Situation:
      And check this out...
    resource towers just got a whole new meaning... Introduce big, ancient structures with choke points, where nature has taken over and such nice flowers grow... Alchemist's table that creates *slightly* stronger potions... And oh, what's that? Yes, yeeees... that looks like a nice place for placing a pot of oil...

    Excellent idea! There was another thread asking for more small towers/ resources/ choke points in Cyrodiil that have a reason to take them (small bonuses for example). The idea was to spread out combat across the map. These resource towers you have proposed would fit into that perfectly.

    This is from "My Thoughts and suggestions on the state of cyrodiil" by Etaniel:
    Etaniel wrote: »

    Add small objectives. There are sooo many places on the map that are unvisited because there simply isn't anything to do there. The only time we walk across them is if there's a scroll involved, and that doesn't happen too much. Small objectives like ressources could be added all over the map, thus spreading out the zergs, reducing lag, giving small groups more stuff to do. Of course those ressources would give some kind of advantage or score bonus to the faction holding it. It could be that those ressources generate small amounts of gold every 15 min for the guild that claims it, or 2-3% additional mount speed for the faction, or anything ZOS can think of as long as there's incentive to take them.

    Love the ideas. Thought I'd put them together for people to see.
  • JamilaRaj
    JamilaRaj
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    I'd get rid of them entirely, at least of those magicka/health/stamina. Everyone spams them, nothing would change except that we would not have to circle around Hollow City in the dead of night to collect some plants.
    Other options: increase cooldown to 5 minutes (so one would not go bankrupt after fighting 1 on 1 another templar for 20 minutes before declaring it a draw) or cap use to X a day.
  • Scamandros
    Scamandros
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    Every player has access to farm or buy flowers/pots. Its completely up to you how often you need to chug them. If your honor is worth more then 11k then sure go ahead and pop multiple potions fighting that 1v1 with the templar who wants to turtle up and slowly wear you down. Same if you see yourself about to be zerged down. Try playingyour build for a week without using any potions and then making changes to compensate. You will most likely come out of it a better player

    Also pve players do need alot of potions for trials, but I'm pretty sure they mostly make the potions of spell power and maybe the weapon crit ones for stamina users. Tripots are almost worthless to most of them. If anything more pve'rs need to farm for potions so they can flood the market with tripots they dont need and make them cheaper for us.
    Aeryj
    Fantasia
    Blades of Vengeance


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    For who do I belong in Scourge PS4 EU

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    As if I was dreaming

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    I heard a screech
    But suddenly, I attack Mighty Eagle
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    So I fought back.

    Mighty Eagle
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    I attack I attack
    But to no avail

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    The Mighty claws who's mighty claws
    Felt unnatural to me and very clumsy to me

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    Why I have chosen to not stay with you
    I do not know. I am complicated at that.

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    My own kin in Scourge PS4 EU

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    Lost in my whirling thoughts
    My heart and mind is clouded

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    Mighty Eagle
    I have served Mighty Lion over a year
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    I finally contacted
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    In reality I love them also.

    Mighty Eagle
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    I continued to clash
    At Mighty Eagle however

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    But clashing with Mighty Eagle
    Just not feel right


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    I have made a wrong choice I now believe
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    For am I not a monster
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    For I believe I now know

    Mighty Eagle
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    Were I truly belong
    For indeed I thought

    Mighty Eagle
    Mighty Eagle
    That Mighty Lion
    Is were I belong.

    Mighty Eagle
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    O how I was so wrong Mighty Eagle
    I was gravely wrong and such a fool I was.

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    You have met
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    Mighty Eagle
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    Princess Justine who attacked
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    I know this was wrong
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    With our clashing together
    I now know were I truly belong in Scourge PS4 EU I believe.

    Mighty Eagle
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    Mighty Eagle
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    Let me repeat the famous saying
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    Mighty Eagle
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    I am so relieved to hear myself to say that

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    Now flies and fights alongside with Mighty Eagle
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    Written by Serjustin19
    Written on this day
    September 27. The day when My troubled mind is not clouded no longer.
    In the year of my troubles end
  • Pancake-Tragedy
    Pancake-Tragedy
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    Scamandros wrote: »
    Every player has access to farm or buy flowers/pots. Its completely up to you how often you need to chug them. If your honor is worth more then 11k then sure go ahead and pop multiple potions fighting that 1v1 with the templar who wants to turtle up and slowly wear you down. Same if you see yourself about to be zerged down. Try playingyour build for a week without using any potions and then making changes to compensate. You will most likely come out of it a better player

    Also pve players do need alot of potions for trials, but I'm pretty sure they mostly make the potions of spell power and maybe the weapon crit ones for stamina users. Tripots are almost worthless to most of them. If anything more pve'rs need to farm for potions so they can flood the market with tripots they dont need and make them cheaper for us.

    If you want to keep one spot to reliably farm the ingredients for potions, suit yourself. Once the justice system comes out, I'll have a blast picking flowers. I'll be farming the ingredients so that I can chug potions while punching flower pickers in the face.
    Edited by Pancake-Tragedy on December 31, 2014 2:42AM
    Pancake Tragedy - Sorcerer
  • sKorcheD
    sKorcheD
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    DeLindsay wrote: »
    Situation:
    • Tristat potions (Panacea of Health) and Panacea of Spell Power are atrociously expensive currently. Craglorn guild merchants sell them for 14k and even 15k nowadays.
    • PvP players are pretty poor if all they do is PvP (and use that AP they get for siege). No, Rewards for the Worthy is not much more than slightly welcome spam that regularly clogs your inbox.
    • To be the most competetive in PvP, you need potions.
    • Plants needed for the most commonly used potions are extremely rare in Cyrodiil.
    1) Agreed but that's the price players pay for having access to Potions on as low as a 15s CD.
    2) Sell Shadow Walker Rings when you get them in your bag for ~50-75K each along with a few other items (some can be bought at Elite Vendor) and be Poor no more.
    3) Refer to #1.
    4) Nope, those plants are not any more rare in Cyro than anywhere else, it's just that Cyro is gigantic. I see them all the time when I'm in Cyro running around getting Skyshards on my lowbies. Granted I can't remember seeing any right near or inside Keeps but still.

    I don't see any reason why ZoS needs to make additional node spawns all over Cyro that are specifically for Bugloss, Columbine, Mountain Flower, Lady's Smock, Corn Flower and Water Hyacinth. Conversely, if you purchase the mats yourself you can get the price of a stack of pots down to 8-11K. Ofc, as a Crafter I'm not against ZoS dotting the land far and wide with nodes of every kind.

    I been tryin to get rid of shadow walkers forever. Got the necklace left, will sell for 22k. Those 50k-75k prices are old.

    Larrdok - Pact
    Filthy Barbarian
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