Changing Vampire Stage Timers

MornaBaine

So the Devs tell us they are "still working out" how vampires and werewolves will be affected by the upcoming Justice System. Paul Sage has said guards "will not like" Stage 4 vampires and transformed werewolves. But thus far they have given us no information on what that means and how it will be implemented via game mechanics. That information is really desired by the playerbase, especially among those of us who play vampires. However, whether you can, as a Stage 4 vampire, simply pay a small fine commensurate with the one you get for getting caught stealing a small item for the first time and be on your way unmolested in town afterwards OR being KOS to guards for being Stage 4 OR some sort of system in between... the fact remains that being Stage 4 when entering cities and towns is going to garner some sort of negative reaction you will have to deal with. Some of us, like me, really like this idea whereas others really hate it and have said it's not "fair" that they will be "forced" to leave Stage 4 in order to "conduct business" in cities and towns. Most PvPers prefer to be in Stage 4 and object that they would have to be in Stage 3 for an hour and a half (this is the current length of Stage 3) before returning to Cyrodil at "full power." And those of us who like to roleplay "subtle" vampires have already long complained that Stage 1, lasting a mere half hour, is far too short. So it would seem to me that the simplest "fix" would simply be to swap the Stage 1 and Stage 3 timers (leaving Stage 2 as is at 1 hour) which would please both camps. PvPers would only have to "endure" being Stage 3 to get their business done for half an hour before being able to return to Cyrodiil at Stage 4 and those of us who have long wished for a more reasonable length of time for Stage 1 (because currently you literally have to feed a minimum of TWELVE TIMES A GAME DAY to remain in Stage 1) would be happy as well. So, what do you think?

dharbert

Doesn't matter to me what they do with the stage timers. I'm going to stay at stage 4 anyway.

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

Personally I feel that at stage 1 you should look as you did prior to becoming a Vampire. At stage 2 you get pasty in color and NPCs would ask if you are feeling well. At stage 3, your eyes are looking bad and NPCs would really be affected in that they might comment that you should stay home if you are sick, "Please don't breath on me". And I really hope that at Stage 4 you are KOS (looks like the Justice System will be doing just this, but we still don't know for sure.).

Vizier

12-24 hour cycle. Let Vamps that want to be at a stage other than 4 play instead of constantly feeding.

If it's a huge issue for those needing to get to stage 4 put a toggle in menu that speeds it up.

MornaBaine

Vizier wrote: »

12-24 hour cycle. Let Vamps that want to be at a stage other than 4 play instead of constantly feeding.

If it's a huge issue for those needing to get to stage 4 put a toggle in menu that speeds it up.

I would dearly love to just have a toggle system so that you could simply be in whatever Stage you wanted to be in. But that would pretty much negate the entire feeding mechanic. I don't mind having to feed, I just want it to be a more realistic and reasonable schedule!

AshySamurai

I'm not a vampire, so it won't affect me in JS. But if it's win-win change, I would say: why not?

Heishi

I think switching the timers is a good idea, but not a solution to the justice system. Switching the timers makes since because once you've fed, it should be a good while before you get hungry again, then the longer you go, the more the hunger takes you.

As a solution for the justice system, I think they should just write vampirism giving it a transformation like WW. Kinda like in Dawnguard with transforming into a master vamp. In fact, screw it, just make it like WW where you have a timer to how long you stay in master vamp form and you have to consistently feed to maintain it.

With the transformation, noncombatant rank 4 vamps could go drop items in the bank or the random odds and end things they HAVE to do in a city. This would also prevent an issue I'm sure will arise with enforcers just killing every rank 4 vamp roaming the land whether they want to be involved in the pvp aspect or not.

Siluen

I would definitely like the stages to last quite a bit longer. Perhaps an in-game day per stage?

Heishi

Siluen wrote: »

I would definitely like the stages to last quite a bit longer. Perhaps an in-game day per stage?

That means you'd have to bit sitting at the computer playing for over 15hrs to get into stage 4 (5.83hrs/IGday).

I don't know about others, but if I have to wait 15hrs for the benefits to outweigh the disadvantaged. I'd just avoid it all together. I do think they should reverse the strength of the stages where first stage is the strongest and gets weaker the longer they go without feeding.

They do the stages inline with other TES games though so I suspect this won't change.

Siluen

Heishi wrote: »

Siluen wrote: »

I would definitely like the stages to last quite a bit longer. Perhaps an in-game day per stage?

That means you'd have to bit sitting at the computer playing for over 15hrs to get into stage 4 (5.83hrs/IGday).

I don't know about others, but if I have to wait 15hrs for the benefits to outweigh the disadvantaged. I'd just avoid it all together. I do think they should reverse the strength of the stages where first stage is the strongest and gets weaker the longer they go without feeding.

They do the stages inline with other TES games though so I suspect this won't change.

An in-game day was just a suggestion, all in all, I would just like the first two stages to last longer, without going into too much detail about how long exactly. (The suggestion in the poll of reverting the durations of the stages is actually not bad either.)

On the other hand, in Skyrim one also progressed through the stages every in-game day. Granted you could actually snooze/wait to make it go by faster, but if you are already in stage 4, and you prefer this stage, you will never really have to wait for it, will you?

WraithAzraiel

You already know my feelings on this topic, Morna. I say what I always say without saying it again.

Heishi

Siluen wrote: »

Heishi wrote: »

Siluen wrote: »

I would definitely like the stages to last quite a bit longer. Perhaps an in-game day per stage?

That means you'd have to bit sitting at the computer playing for over 15hrs to get into stage 4 (5.83hrs/IGday).

I don't know about others, but if I have to wait 15hrs for the benefits to outweigh the disadvantaged. I'd just avoid it all together. I do think they should reverse the strength of the stages where first stage is the strongest and gets weaker the longer they go without feeding.

They do the stages inline with other TES games though so I suspect this won't change.

An in-game day was just a suggestion, all in all, I would just like the first two stages to last longer, without going into too much detail about how long exactly. (The suggestion in the poll of reverting the durations of the stages is actually not bad either.)

On the other hand, in Skyrim one also progressed through the stages every in-game day. Granted you could actually snooze/wait to make it go by faster, but if you are already in stage 4, and you prefer this stage, you will never really have to wait for it, will you?

That is why the ingame day worked for Skyrim, Oblivion, ect. You could just wait and jump forward.

I actually did that all the time. I would do as much of the stuff as I could at night, then come back and feed, do the stuff I could only do during the day, then wait the time until back in the highest stage and do night stuff.

As far as the "but if you are already in stage 4, and you prefer this stage, you will never really have to wait for it, will you?" this is how it works now. I don't think I've fed on anyone (with my vamp char) since he became a vamp, aside from the initial quest. When the Justice System comes out my understanding is it will be KOS for stage 4 vamps so we would either have to feed or rampage a town trying not to die while we turn in quest, go to the bank, and other such things.

Siluen

Has the kill on sight in stage 4 thing been confirmed? I usually keep my vampire pretty well fed, but a friend of mine has been worrying about this.

Heishi

Siluen wrote: »

Has the kill on sight in stage 4 thing been confirmed? I usually keep my vampire pretty well fed, but a friend of mine has been worrying about this.

I thought I had read it had been said by Paul Sage that guards and such would be reacting to 4th stage vamps and transformed WWs.

I had taken it to mean they were going for like pre-Dawnguard Skyrim. Which while not a terrible idea, only works on the basis that when you want to return to stage 4 you just wait the time. That's why I suggested (a few post back) it work like Dawnguard Skyrim where guards quit aggroing if you're stage 4 and only come after you if you transform. It's the most logical way I can see it working.

Edit: This discussion seems to cover it a little more in-depth, It's another from Morna and mentions Paul Sage's comment. I'm seeing if I can find the original, but I think it was mentioned in an ESO Live so it might only be transcripts and whatnot

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143149/vampires-the-justice-system

Heishi

Here we go:

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So it's been confirmed that vampires in Stage 4 will be considered "criminals" once the Justice System is implemented.

Confirmed where? And when? We're still working out the details of how the Justice System will impact werewolf and vampire players.

Okay here's the first one. Now I have to go watch the most recent Livestream again.

OK here is the livestream link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUOLSng-F8

Now Paul Sage's segment begins around 1:01:50. At aprox 1:00:16 Sage begins to talk about NPCs noticing transformed werewolves and Stage 4 vampires. What he says is, "Guards will not like that behavior."

MornaBaine

While I was sure I heard somewhere that guards were going to KOS Stage 4 vampires I have been unable to confirm that and we've since had a Dev state THEY do not yet know how they are going to handle Stage 4 vamps and transformed werewolves yet. Which, frankly, I find pretty dismaying this close to the system hitting PTS! You would THINK they would have a clue by now! But the general consensus among players seems to be that KOS makes the most sense. So all we DO know for sure is that Stage4 vamps and transformed werewolves ARE going to be reacted to in SOME fashion by the guards. Which is going to make it glaringly apparent that the Stage timers, as they currently stand, are completely insufficient in allowing players any sort of REASONABLE control of their Stage. I am convinced they are going to need to be revamped or the PvPers are going to go nuts. Happily, the thing that would be the most beneficial for THEM will also be the thing that roleplayers have been dying for since launch but have, predictably, been ignored regarding.

reagen_lionel

I'd like the timers to be longer and the levels of strengths reversed on the stages. The whole stages of vampires and how thier strengths worked just never made sense to me in the first place.

Why is a vampire strongest when its starving? Vampires are strongest after feeding, not starving, they are weakest when they've not fed in a long time. Its thier life source. No matter what you are, starving doesnt make you stronger, it does just the opposite.

Parrotbrain

In the livestream they also said that the justice system can be toggled, so if someone with stage 4 doesn't want to be killed, they could just switch it off. IMO the whole vampire needs an overhaul. It feels very clunky compared to the new werewolf. There is also a 6 skillpoint difference now which changes the whole feeling of progression from level 1 to level 10 for vampire as compared to werewolf... I honestly think that vampires have been neglected up to now.

5 am now, I seriously need to get some sleep Zzz...

WraithAzraiel

Parrotbrain wrote: »

In the livestream they also said that the justice system can be toggled, so if someone with stage 4 doesn't want to be killed, they could just switch it off. IMO the whole vampire needs an overhaul. It feels very clunky compared to the new werewolf. There is also a 6 skillpoint difference now which changes the whole feeling of progression from level 1 to level 10 for vampire as compared to werewolf... I honestly think that vampires have been neglected up to now.

5 am now, I seriously need to get some sleep Zzz...

No, I think the PvP participation can be toggled off. But not the entirety of the Justice System. IE: You can control whether or not you want to participate in the player guard bit of the system.

I could be wrong. But that was my take away from the explanation.

Vizier

MornaBaine wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

12-24 hour cycle. Let Vamps that want to be at a stage other than 4 play instead of constantly feeding.

If it's a huge issue for those needing to get to stage 4 put a toggle in menu that speeds it up.

I would dearly love to just have a toggle system so that you could simply be in whatever Stage you wanted to be in. But that would pretty much negate the entire feeding mechanic. I don't mind having to feed, I just want it to be a more realistic and reasonable schedule!

You misunderstand. I suggest a toggle to set it to stage 4 only as a means to bypass the long wait to get to stage 4 should their be an increase in the time between stages.

You basically have two camps. One side wants to be in stage 4 all the time. It fits their play style. Some want to be in stage one or two all the time but the current need to feed every 20 minutes is a real imposition. A toggle doesn't negate the need to feed since those that want to be in stage 4 aren't going to feed anyway.

Toggle sets it to stage 4. Any feeding turns off the toggle and the character vamp cycle is normal. EZ.

MornaBaine

Vizier wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

12-24 hour cycle. Let Vamps that want to be at a stage other than 4 play instead of constantly feeding.

If it's a huge issue for those needing to get to stage 4 put a toggle in menu that speeds it up.

I would dearly love to just have a toggle system so that you could simply be in whatever Stage you wanted to be in. But that would pretty much negate the entire feeding mechanic. I don't mind having to feed, I just want it to be a more realistic and reasonable schedule!

You misunderstand. I suggest a toggle to set it to stage 4 only as a means to bypass the long wait to get to stage 4 should their be an increase in the time between stages.

You basically have two camps. One side wants to be in stage 4 all the time. It fits their play style. Some want to be in stage one or two all the time but the current need to feed every 20 minutes is a real imposition. A toggle doesn't negate the need to feed since those that want to be in stage 4 aren't going to feed anyway.

Toggle sets it to stage 4. Any feeding turns off the toggle and the character vamp cycle is normal. EZ.

Oh! *smacks self on forehead* Well THAT makes much more sense! LOL Thank you for the explanation. Apparently there was too much blood in my caffeine system when I read that the first time around. Mea culpea.

MornaBaine

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Parrotbrain wrote: »

In the livestream they also said that the justice system can be toggled, so if someone with stage 4 doesn't want to be killed, they could just switch it off. IMO the whole vampire needs an overhaul. It feels very clunky compared to the new werewolf. There is also a 6 skillpoint difference now which changes the whole feeling of progression from level 1 to level 10 for vampire as compared to werewolf... I honestly think that vampires have been neglected up to now.

5 am now, I seriously need to get some sleep Zzz...

No, I think the PvP participation can be toggled off. But not the entirety of the Justice System. IE: You can control whether or not you want to participate in the player guard bit of the system.

I could be wrong. But that was my take away from the explanation.

I think it's still unclear as to whether or not you will be able to completely opt out of the Justice System. On the Livestream that discussed it, it sounded to me as if you could. But frankly, that makes no sense and I hope it's not the case. The PvP portion certainly needs to be optional but the PvE portion just needs to be a regular part of the game we all have to deal with. Otherwise, what's the point?

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

It would be silly to have the Justice System as a choice. Why bother with all the work? I believe that it was only the PVP portion that was a toggle, but I think that even that should not be there. If you break the law and get caught, you should be attackable by the guards and those who choose to be enforcers. I think the key is that the person needs to be an Enforcer to be able to attack someone who has a bounty. And for Gods sake, no looting of the victim. Just the bounty money.