Sorc was it really the correct choice?

Rykinx

so i recently returned to eso after i had a break for a long time (have not played since release) and on my return i decided to make a sorc so i started leveling and recently hit v14. the reason why i made a sorc was because i wanted to be a proper spellcaster (magus) once i got to v14 i started reading the forums and guides and all that stuff just to find out that alot of people are complaining about Sorc's in pvp and pve right now. all i want to know is, did i make the wrong decision? should i have made a DK instead of a sorc (i heard DK's are the best spell casting class atm) or can i assume that later on when i get better gear and maybe a few changes are made (1.6 Champion system) that sorc will be able to compete with DK's in end game pvp and pve? i made this post because i need help with this. all your feedback is appreciated and if you do have any viable destro staff sorc builds please let me know .
Thanks in Advance.

macabrex

Yes it was a wrong decision. Sorc's average damage is 800(dk's/nb's get 1200-1400) and we wont get any love in 1.6. Producers just love dk's. You still have time. Level a dk to vr1.

Rykinx

but they are not removing vr ranks in 1.6 am i right? so i just have to level to vr14 all over again...?

OrphanHelgen

I like sorc They are fun. I have a DK vet14 too. I haven't even maxed ardent flame abilities. I play stamina build, and are feeling comfortable with that, which is important for success. And also I believe the medium armor and stamina builds will get some future buff.
They can remove all DK flames and standard for all I care. Play what you like and don't think too much about that. Me and my friends had a light armored DK with us at City of Ash veteran. He died ALL THE TIME because he didn't had range. DK have no mobility skills either. Let them be fighters. I am glad you play anything else but DK's. When I get a DK in my group I get bored before we even start playing. Play because it is fun It is so much more fun, hehehe .

I don't dare to say this too loud, but I think everything might be balanced. It is just the stupid "meta" that always decide what is best. I love taking the weakest and find a nice over powered build. I did that in league of legends. Always took the least played champions and made them OP. It is of course some builds you just have to stay away from, but with the gear right for you and your play style, and some practice and experience, I think you will have so much fun with your sorc:)

I say fun a lot. Its not fun anymore hehe. YOLO christmas and a swaggy new year.

Nightreaver

With 1.6 being introduced to the PTS in January I wouldn't make any decisions based on what is currently considered the best.

If your primary interest is in playing a *proper* Spell caster I would say stay with Sorcerer. If your primary interest is in being the best of the best of the best then I would wait to see what 1.6 has to bring.

flintstone

I have a DK and a Sorcerer leveled. It really depends on the fight you are in at any given time.....sometimes my sorcerer can make short work of the fight while my Dragonknight struggles in the same fight.......other times, it's the other way around.

I like playing my Dragonknight more......but thats only because he best fits my style of play (toe-toe). My sorcerer requires me to think more and fight smarter.

Very different and fun switching between the two every now and then.

NordJitsu

Sorcerer can be great. It's just way harder and takes a lot more skill from the player (DK and NB are powerful and thus easier to be good with.)

That said, ZOS has been good about responding to feedback in the past.

One can hope they will soon buff Sorcs (magicka Sorcs in particular.)

Spangla

keremondereb17_ESO2 wrote: »

Yes it was a wrong decision. Sorc's average damage is 800(dk's/nb's get 1200-1400) and we wont get any love in 1.6. Producers just love dk's. You still have time. Level a dk to vr1.

Please dont listen to noobs:)

Pvp Sorc is the best 1v1 and great fun to play.

pve.... well its pve who cares

Teargrants

Define 1v1. DKs and NBs are much more solid for dueling, sorcs have a harder time. Or do you mean open world random 1v1 encounters where sorcs can just blink away when we get bored?

eliisra

Spangla wrote: »

Please dont listen to noobs:)

Pvp Sorc is the best 1v1 and great fun to play.

pve.... well its pve who cares

Most people care about PvE. ZoS made sure of that, ignoring PvP progression, updates and content for 8-9 months now. They're even forcing us to PvE for passives and gear

Topic: With a magicka/magus build on my characters, this is the (PvE) dps ladder I'm getting:
1.DK
2. NB
3. Sorcerer
4. Templar

My DK does on average 300-400 more single target dps than my sorcerer, depending on encounter, if I can land all dots, wont have sustain issues. If talking AoE dps, the difference is a lot bigger. One DK can deal more AoE dps than all other classes put together lol.

Hope this will change in 1.6. But based on limited information, it might get worse. DK's = execute skill. Sorcerers = cuddlier pets.

RainfeatherUK

It may just be my opinion here but to me, there is more respect in those that play what they love and become truly proficient at it, than in taking the easy ride and having it carry you.

I'm a PvP player in every game I play. Always either Sorcerer or Rogue/Assassin. That never changes because I dont care about what is easy or FoTM. I care about my style, my self respect and what I enjoy playing.

However long the time takes for change to come, it is still inevitable. Years ago in Aion Online they told my my Assassin was at the bottom of the balance tree - I ended up carrying my team in dredgion with skill alone. Even beating the majority of people who rolled my 'counter class'.

Dont let sorcerers ill fortune define what you play. Because as an underdog your skill grows. Playing something easy makes you complacent in my experience.

If you enjoy DK then that is different. Nor is it saying here that 'DK doesnt take skill.' But when a class is naturally stronger, its easy to be looked upon as someone who relies on it. The sense of achievement can feel diminished.

A bit more than I intended to say. Bottom line; Play what you want, not what you think you should have to. Stick with something long enough and become skilled and you will stand out amongst your peers with respect. That is worth far more than face rolling for the wrong reasons.

Weng

Since ZOS has changed skills so often in the last few months, many calculators and guides are not really up to date. So maybe you just have to find out yourself how to play a destruction staff, light armor mage with a sorcerer.

Personally, I found to play a sorcerer with destruction staff underpowered and then put much time into a stamina based build using the buffs from the class skill line. Here you find e.g. a syngery with Daedric Curse or Conjured Ward and Daedric Protection passive. Lightning Form has mitigation stats that are equal or even better than DKs Armor spell, the same applies to Surge (even though "only" single target, no group buff). Unholy Knowledge passive supports both, magicka and stamina builds. Not to mention Bolt Escape and its morphs, some will tell you it's broken, some will tell you it's overpowered.

But the summoning skill line is very dissapointing at the moment. For example a DK gets two damage spells instead of the two summoning spells. The Volatile Familiar is broken at the moment, it doesn't do the explosion damage, none at all. I haven't tried the Twilight yet, since it doesn't look promising to me. But ZOS already stated that the summoned pets will be buffed, hopefully with 1.6.

As far as I can see, if you want to play a real fire mage you have to go DK, I don't think a fire staff is enough. A "storm mage" with lightning spells would be for sure a sorcerer and with 1.6 you might be able to play a summoner. If you just want to dish out max DPS with a sorcerer, then at the moment you should chose a stamina build with medium armor. That's just my opinion though.

Cody

With the Champion system a scant month or two away, the "best" builds really won't mean much for too much longer.

With that being said, find what's fun and comfortable to YOU, and play how YOU want to play. Don't take the easy way out and roll some boring FOTM DK build. pretty soon all the underdog builds are bound to get more balanced; change will come at some point.

And honestly, playing the underdog style will make you better at the game; and when the game finally achieves a good sense of balance; you will be much better off than all the people that took the easy way out with a FOTM build.

What i am trying to say, is do what the game was intended to let you do: Play how you want. If its a DK, play a DK. if it's a sorc; play a sorc. Don't play something simply because it lets you dominate easily; pick a playstyle that you have fun with. If your current sorc build is fun for you, then stick with it.

naturn

Cody wrote: »

With the Champion system a scant month or two away, the "best" builds really won't mean much for too much longer.

With that being said, find what's fun and comfortable to YOU, and play how YOU want to play. Don't take the easy way out and roll some boring FOTM DK build. pretty soon all the underdog builds are bound to get more balanced; change will come at some point.

And honestly, playing the underdog style will make you better at the game; and when the game finally achieves a good sense of balance; you will be much better off than all the people that took the easy way out with a FOTM build.

What i am trying to say, is do what the game was intended to let you do: Play how you want. If its a DK, play a DK. if it's a sorc; play a sorc. Don't play something simply because it lets you dominate easily; pick a playstyle that you have fun with. If your current sorc build is fun for you, then stick with it.

This is well said. It is still ok to push for skills or changes you may like, but explore the skills and builds and use what works for you. That is a big part of the fun.

Blud

A week or two ago I saw a Sorc (Thornblade - NA) that just wrecked groups. The dude just played by himself. He got up on the wrecked boat west of the bridge outside Alessia and it took 8-10 people to bring him down.

I don't know who that was or what kind of build he was running, but dude was good and I don't believe for a minute underpowered.

cozmon3c_ESO

yes, you chose the wrong class atm, but maybe in 1.6 they will increase our skills damage output so we can compete at a normal level.

DHale

Are you guys/gals really even PVP ing or just talking about it? Sorcs wreck stuff, there are entire guilds that run Sorcs with destro staffs only. Not too long ago the top 25 player in the game (in terms of points) there were 2 DK's, 7 NB. 1Templar and oh all the rest were Sorcs. My three PVP guilds actively seek Sorcs for negate and even assigns offensive negate and defensive negate. In those rare times when there is no Sorc in our group there is usually 15 minutes of bemoaning... well we could have taken that keep if we only had a negate. When I run with groups I do not run with regularly as soon as I group they ask are you a sorc? I have to gulp and say I am just a Templar. I have a half dozen combos and strategies for DK's and I actively engage them head on as most players don't ever really get good relying on their amazing abilities. The moment I know they are a DK when I see the green dragon blood pop I smile and invasion in and then... well that would be telling. My only strategy for Sorcs is staying out of the line of sight and roll out of unfriendly negates. Quit worrying about the class and learn to play, meaning learn the mechanics of the class and the game. I can solo the Dolmens and World Bosses in PVE not because I am a great player it's because I knew it could be done when I saw other Templars do it and I accumulated enough skill points to use weapons available to all classes. I have leveled four weapons to 50 and starting on a fifth. Be a sorc if you want to be and it sure looks like a good class to me and I have certainly been wrecked by crystal shards and velocious curse and endless fury far more than flame lash.

DHale VR14 Templar, AD

CP5

DHale wrote: »

Are you guys/gals really even PVP ing or just talking about it? Sorcs wreck stuff, there are entire guilds that run Sorcs with destro staffs only. Not too long ago the top 25 player in the game (in terms of points) there were 2 DK's, 7 NB. 1Templar and oh all the rest were Sorcs. My three PVP guilds actively seek Sorcs for negate and even assigns offensive negate and defensive negate. In those rare times when there is no Sorc in our group there is usually 15 minutes of bemoaning... well we could have taken that keep if we only had a negate. When I run with groups I do not run with regularly as soon as I group they ask are you a sorc? I have to gulp and say I am just a Templar. I have a half dozen combos and strategies for DK's and I actively engage them head on as most players don't ever really get good relying on their amazing abilities. The moment I know they are a DK when I see the green dragon blood pop I smile and invasion in and then... well that would be telling. My only strategy for Sorcs is staying out of the line of sight and roll out of unfriendly negates. Quit worrying about the class and learn to play, meaning learn the mechanics of the class and the game. I can solo the Dolmens and World Bosses in PVE not because I am a great player it's because I knew it could be done when I saw other Templars do it and I accumulated enough skill points to use weapons available to all classes. I have leveled four weapons to 50 and starting on a fifth. Be a sorc if you want to be and it sure looks like a good class to me and I have certainly been wrecked by crystal shards and velocious curse and endless fury far more than flame lash.

DHale VR14 Templar, AD

Just want to throw this out there, you say Negate a lot and that Sorcs should be using destruction staffs. Thats kind of the problem, they are mostly seen, as most people would call, negate monkeys, worth the class for that and only that, needing to grab the destruction staff for the direct damage skills and often needing a restoration staff for any kind of reliable self heals. Just wanting to point that out.

Nightreaver

DHale wrote: »

Are you guys/gals really even PVP ing or just talking about it? Sorcs wreck stuff, there are entire guilds that run Sorcs with destro staffs only. Not too long ago the top 25 player in the game (in terms of points) there were 2 DK's, 7 NB. 1Templar and oh all the rest were Sorcs. My three PVP guilds actively seek Sorcs for negate and even assigns offensive negate and defensive negate. In those rare times when there is no Sorc in our group there is usually 15 minutes of bemoaning... well we could have taken that keep if we only had a negate. When I run with groups I do not run with regularly as soon as I group they ask are you a sorc? I have to gulp and say I am just a Templar. I have a half dozen combos and strategies for DK's and I actively engage them head on as most players don't ever really get good relying on their amazing abilities. The moment I know they are a DK when I see the green dragon blood pop I smile and invasion in and then... well that would be telling. My only strategy for Sorcs is staying out of the line of sight and roll out of unfriendly negates. Quit worrying about the class and learn to play, meaning learn the mechanics of the class and the game. I can solo the Dolmens and World Bosses in PVE not because I am a great player it's because I knew it could be done when I saw other Templars do it and I accumulated enough skill points to use weapons available to all classes. I have leveled four weapons to 50 and starting on a fifth. Be a sorc if you want to be and it sure looks like a good class to me and I have certainly been wrecked by crystal shards and velocious curse and endless fury far more than flame lash.

DHale VR14 Templar, AD

Ok, so let's recap.
First lets list the valuable abilities you listed that Sorcerers have at their disposal.
1) Negate Magic

Now let's list all the reasons people want a Sorcerer in their group.
1) Negate Magic

Multiple choice question.
What role are groups looking for a Sorcerer to fill.
1) Tank
2) Healer
3) DPS
4) Negate ***
SPOILER: The correct answer is 4. But I guess you knew that.

And what is your advice for Sorcerers?

DHale wrote
Quit worrying about the class and learn to play, meaning learn the mechanics of the class and the game. I can solo the Dolmens and World Bosses in PVE not because I am a great player it's because I knew it could be done when I saw other Templars do it.

So are you saying the secret to doing well as a Sorcerer is to delete the character and roll a Templar or that Sorcerers are awesome because Templars can solo Dolmens and World Bosses?

Or are you simply saying that Sorcerers just need to Learn To Play
And by that I assume you mean Learn where the hotkey is associated with the Negate ability.

DHale wrote
I have certainly been wrecked by crystal shards and velocious curse and endless fury far more than flame lash.

Maybe that's because

DHale wrote
My only strategy for Sorcs is staying out of the line of sight and roll out of unfriendly negates.

Drackolus

Do yourself a favor - play the class you like. Ignore fotm completely.

Rykinx

i appreciate all the respons and constructive feedback i have gotten so far about this post. i dont understand what everyone is reffering to with all the different explenations and strategies you guys provide however. im currently trying to level my DK up befor champion system hits but i still have my sorc left so basically once 1.6 hits then i can see how everything perform and if i perfer beeing a dot fire mage or a nice playable sorc . so i mean once 1.6 hits i cna decide i guess since everything is apperently changing when the champion system hits and no one exactly knows what is going to happend.

Layenem

@Rykinx‌ there's no question sorcs don't have the love that DKs have had since launch and NBs have been getting recently. That said, they are still powerful. They might not be the "easy class" or "top performer" but they get the job done without question.

I tank with my sorc. Right now we are rated as 3rd in tanking, 4th depending on the fight. That doesn't mean that we can't do it, that means that we actually need a healer on us instead of ignoring the use of a healer (vDSA final fight and Mantikora - in the blackhole - are the best two examples).

Is it harder to perform on a sorc? Yep. Does that make it the wrong choice? I guess that depends on your answer to this question: Do you like easy mode, or a challenge? Because you're not going to perform on a sorc easily, but you can perform on a sorc!

EDIT:

I'd like to add that I made a DK, worked on tanking on him, and while it was easier... it was boring as hell. The only thing the other three classes have over sorc (in tanking) is their ability to restore missing health effectively without capping their ability to tank... With the loss of soft caps and the changes to how HP/Magicka/Stamina are going to be multiplied this will make Dark Exchange far more valuable since it restores a % of HP/Magicka at a cost of a % of Stamina (useless with soft caps since the numbers were so close together.)

LonePirate

keremondereb17_ESO2 wrote: »

Yes it was a wrong decision. Sorc's average damage is 800(dk's/nb's get 1200-1400) and we wont get any love in 1.6.

Let me introduce you to reality. In the most recent ESO Live show, it was mentioned that the highest DPS build in 1.6 during ZOS testing was a Sorceror. The current PVP champion on the NA servers - Crystalized - is a Sorceror.

Would you care to retract your statements?

Rykinx

but basically i do want to +play a sorc but since im so far behind everyone else in terms of game play and general knowledge of game mechanics it feels like its going to take me a long while until i learn how to play a sorc properly. and by then alot might change all the time. my biggest concern is will i enjoy it enough to have the motivation to play it until i learn the class properly.

Yusuf

Spangla wrote: »

keremondereb17_ESO2 wrote: »

Yes it was a wrong decision. Sorc's average damage is 800(dk's/nb's get 1200-1400) and we wont get any love in 1.6. Producers just love dk's. You still have time. Level a dk to vr1.

Please dont listen to noobs:)

Pvp Sorc is the best 1v1 and great fun to play.

pve.... well its pve who cares

Please don't listen to people who get you whiped in gold-key-daylies because their wearing pvp-gear. I'm looking at you, PVPers with spectre's eye as dps!

Tiitus

LonePirate wrote: »

Let me introduce you to reality. In the most recent ESO Live show, it was mentioned that the highest DPS build in 1.6 during ZOS testing was a Sorceror. The current PVP champion on the NA servers - Crystalized - is a Sorceror.

Would you care to retract your statements?

They also stated the it was to powerful ad had to bring it down some.. not to mention its the sorc's pets (playstyle) that has the buff right now, dnt know bout u but i didnt level a sorc to play a pet class. (evetyone knows how annoying the sorc pets are anywayz, there is no way to control them and they are not smart enough to attack the mob smashing my char face in thus making them useless)

Emencie

I personally wanted to play a "spell sword" type class right from the beginning and at head start played a heavy armor S&B sorc. It was rough but doable in PvE and a nightmare in PvP. Recently I came back and decided that I would Join the DK wagon, and I haven't looked back.

I feel the DK achieves the defensive and hard to kill tankyness I was looking for in PvE and PvP, While putting out a respectable amount of damage, and a dangerous amount of burst when needed. I also feel a bit more well rounded as a DK, having a skill to fall back on for almost every situation. It also helps that the DK handles heavy armor well, while on my Sorc if felt like I was giving my character a hurdle he simply couldn't overcome.

With my DK I find 1vX situation more fun, as well as small skirmishes. I feel I really shine in small group PvP which is more my pace. My Sorc felt useful only in big battles where negate played a big part of combat.

After trying out light and medium armor builds I feel the DK transitions nicely and has skills that fit in every role I have tried. While my Sorc felt a bit like a one trick pony. A good trick don't get me wrong, but one that not only left PvE feeling stale, but also left me feeling like I had to put in 200% effort to get 50% effectiveness in PvP.

I'm loving life as a DK.

Nightreaver

LonePirate wrote: »

keremondereb17_ESO2 wrote: »

Yes it was a wrong decision. Sorc's average damage is 800(dk's/nb's get 1200-1400) and we wont get any love in 1.6.

Let me introduce you to reality. In the most recent ESO Live show, it was mentioned that the highest DPS build in 1.6 during ZOS testing was a Sorceror. The current PVP champion on the NA servers - Crystalized - is a Sorceror.

Would you care to retract your statements?

New definition of reality?
I just checked the highest ranked PvP champions on the NA server and the highest ranked Sorcerer came in 19th.. Though I imagine if you check it often enough you will find a time when Sorcerer is on top since it really doesn't mean anything.

The *Reality* is that Sorcerer DPS is currently ranked 3rd or 4th. Anything else is just speculative.

As far as 1.6 goes we have yet to see any data that supports any kind of DPS ranking. And even IF pet DPS turns out to be best I except that to be situational at best seeing as how I have yet to see an MMO where a pet build was considered a must have for raids.

So no, no retraction needed.

LonePirate

Nightreaver wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

keremondereb17_ESO2 wrote: »

Yes it was a wrong decision. Sorc's average damage is 800(dk's/nb's get 1200-1400) and we wont get any love in 1.6.

Let me introduce you to reality. In the most recent ESO Live show, it was mentioned that the highest DPS build in 1.6 during ZOS testing was a Sorceror. The current PVP champion on the NA servers - Crystalized - is a Sorceror.

Would you care to retract your statements?

New definition of reality?
I just checked the highest ranked PvP champions on the NA server and the highest ranked Sorcerer came in 19th.. Though I imagine if you check it often enough you will find a time when Sorcerer is on top since it really doesn't mean anything.

You obviously did not check Thornblade NA, the only campaign that matters. Give it a look and then come back here with your retraction.

Jahosefat

LonePirate wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

keremondereb17_ESO2 wrote: »

Yes it was a wrong decision. Sorc's average damage is 800(dk's/nb's get 1200-1400) and we wont get any love in 1.6.

Let me introduce you to reality. In the most recent ESO Live show, it was mentioned that the highest DPS build in 1.6 during ZOS testing was a Sorceror. The current PVP champion on the NA servers - Crystalized - is a Sorceror.

Would you care to retract your statements?

New definition of reality?
I just checked the highest ranked PvP champions on the NA server and the highest ranked Sorcerer came in 19th.. Though I imagine if you check it often enough you will find a time when Sorcerer is on top since it really doesn't mean anything.

You obviously did not check Thornblade NA, the only campaign that matters. Give it a look and then come back here with your retraction.

lol the leaderboards are mostly a measure of time invested, not class balance. Particularly in the 30 day campaigns.

Nightreaver

LonePirate wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

keremondereb17_ESO2 wrote: »

Yes it was a wrong decision. Sorc's average damage is 800(dk's/nb's get 1200-1400) and we wont get any love in 1.6.

Let me introduce you to reality. In the most recent ESO Live show, it was mentioned that the highest DPS build in 1.6 during ZOS testing was a Sorceror. The current PVP champion on the NA servers - Crystalized - is a Sorceror.

Would you care to retract your statements?

New definition of reality?
I just checked the highest ranked PvP champions on the NA server and the highest ranked Sorcerer came in 19th.. Though I imagine if you check it often enough you will find a time when Sorcerer is on top since it really doesn't mean anything.

You obviously did not check Thornblade NA, the only campaign that matters. Give it a look and then come back here with your retraction.

Ahh, so is there also a certain day of the week and time that only matters?

My experience has been closer to @Jahosefat where being on top is as much an indication of time spent as skill.

Not to take away anything away from Crystalized but Crystalized now being the first Grand Warlord on NA is a clear indication of time invested. I'm not convinced he wouldn't have achieved it if he had played any other class.

The *reality* still remains which is to say the both DKs and NBs currently out DPS Sorcerers. If you have actual numbers to support that isn't the case then I would very much like to see them.

And regardless of where Sorcerer currently sits, my initial recommendation remains the same as well. Update 1.6 is due to hit PTS real soon with changes to all classes which will make any current comparisons moot. If someone is interested in playing a Sorcerer then my suggestion would be to base that decision on if you find Sorcerers to your liking at that time.