Did ZOS lie? Probably not!

Chivana

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

So, was this a lie or not? The answer is quite simple: Meanwhile they worked the value out (30) and when the Champion System comes out most people will be gone and therefor not reach the cap.

Merry Christmas.

McLukos

Meh

Gyudan

That's one way to put it. Your thread gave me a good chuckle.
I hope it won't be proven true though.

Rodario

Except it's not a cap.

ers101284b14_ESO

Or maybe they where tracking experience, and where going to award people for the extra xp for getting to VR14, but during development, internal testing, re-evaluation and implementation they found that it wasn't going to work and had to change their plans. Since stuff like that does in fact happen.

Nope guess they lied and its all a conspiracy!

pppontus

I see what you mean. By the time it hits no one who ever gained VR XP before will still be subbed, so they wouldn't have lied anyway

Aett_Thorn

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe they where tracking experience, and where going to award people for the extra xp for getting to VR14, but during development, internal testing, re-evaluation and implementation they found that it wasn't going to work and had to change their plans. Since stuff like that does in fact happen.

Nope guess they lied and its all a conspiracy!

Sigh.

If that is the case, then they should have mentioned it much sooner than a random off-the-cuff response in an ESO live. It's called managing client/customer expectations.

If the Devs had come to us several weeks ago and posted something along the lines of, "Hey guys and girls, we've had some changes in the way that we've created the Champion System. As such, we may not be able to reward you for the time that you have spent gaining XP as we earlier mentioned. We apologize for this, and will try to keep you informed if anything else changes."

If they had done that, there would be a LOT less complaining. Not zero complaining, but less. Why? Because it gave people more time to adjust what they were doing. It also wouldn't have left customers speculating as to how the system was going to work and arguing with each other over the weekend without any sort of official response. When we did get a response, it was on the German forums, and needed to be translated for most of their client base.

This was a communication disaster from the Dev team to their customers. There is no way you can argue otherwise. They knew that they had made a statement that was contradictory to the new direction of the system. Instead of informing players as soon as that happened, it was days/weeks/months later that the customers got informed and in a completely inappropriate way, and then not clarified in an professional manner either.

They could have prevented this, and didn't. It is not the customer's fault for reacting poorly when their expectations aren't managed well.

ers101284b14_ESO

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe they where tracking experience, and where going to award people for the extra xp for getting to VR14, but during development, internal testing, re-evaluation and implementation they found that it wasn't going to work and had to change their plans. Since stuff like that does in fact happen.

Nope guess they lied and its all a conspiracy!

Sigh.

If that is the case, then they should have mentioned it much sooner than a random off-the-cuff response in an ESO live. It's called managing client/customer expectations.

If the Devs had come to us several weeks ago and posted something along the lines of, "Hey guys and girls, we've had some changes in the way that we've created the Champion System. As such, we may not be able to reward you for the time that you have spent gaining XP as we earlier mentioned. We apologize for this, and will try to keep you informed if anything else changes."

If they had done that, there would be a LOT less complaining. Not zero complaining, but less. Why? Because it gave people more time to adjust what they were doing. It also wouldn't have left customers speculating as to how the system was going to work and arguing with each other over the weekend without any sort of official response. When we did get a response, it was on the German forums, and needed to be translated for most of their client base.

This was a communication disaster from the Dev team to their customers. There is no way you can argue otherwise. They knew that they had made a statement that was contradictory to the new direction of the system. Instead of informing players as soon as that happened, it was days/weeks/months later that the customers got informed and in a completely inappropriate way, and then not clarified in an professional manner either.

They could have prevented this, and didn't. It is not the customer's fault for reacting poorly when their expectations aren't managed well.

So they made this whole plan weeks ago and somehow you knew but didn't tell anyone. Thanks a lot dude. They use the ESO live show to communicate on changes and plans. They also said that VR14 will be able to gain XP faster than a VR1. And that people who are doing Gold and Silver will not be able to get more CS points than someone who is at VR14 and plays the same amount of time. But that doesn't create fear and anger so I guess we will just leave that part out.

pppontus

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Or maybe they where tracking experience, and where going to award people for the extra xp for getting to VR14, but during development, internal testing, re-evaluation and implementation they found that it wasn't going to work and had to change their plans. Since stuff like that does in fact happen.

Nope guess they lied and its all a conspiracy!

Sigh.

If that is the case, then they should have mentioned it much sooner than a random off-the-cuff response in an ESO live. It's called managing client/customer expectations.

If the Devs had come to us several weeks ago and posted something along the lines of, "Hey guys and girls, we've had some changes in the way that we've created the Champion System. As such, we may not be able to reward you for the time that you have spent gaining XP as we earlier mentioned. We apologize for this, and will try to keep you informed if anything else changes."

If they had done that, there would be a LOT less complaining. Not zero complaining, but less. Why? Because it gave people more time to adjust what they were doing. It also wouldn't have left customers speculating as to how the system was going to work and arguing with each other over the weekend without any sort of official response. When we did get a response, it was on the German forums, and needed to be translated for most of their client base.

This was a communication disaster from the Dev team to their customers. There is no way you can argue otherwise. They knew that they had made a statement that was contradictory to the new direction of the system. Instead of informing players as soon as that happened, it was days/weeks/months later that the customers got informed and in a completely inappropriate way, and then not clarified in an professional manner either.

They could have prevented this, and didn't. It is not the customer's fault for reacting poorly when their expectations aren't managed well.

So they made this whole plan weeks ago and somehow you knew but didn't tell anyone. Thanks a lot dude. They use the ESO live show to communicate on changes and plans. They also said that VR14 will be able to gain XP faster than a VR1. And that people who are doing Gold and Silver will not be able to get more CS points than someone who is at VR14 and plays the same amount of time. But that doesn't create fear and anger so I guess we will just leave that part out.

Haha. And you think they made a change like this on Friday morning? They were 100% aware weeks ago. Things like these don't just happen, someone makes decisions before they are put in the game you know.

Aett_Thorn

So @ers101284b14_ESO‌, you are saying that they didn't know before the ESO live that things were radically different than they had told us in the past? They didn't even have a thought that there might need to be changes that players would be interested in hearing about as soon as possible? Regardless of exactly when the change happened, it happened BEFORE the ESO Live event. As such, it should have been communicated before the event, and the players been given information as to why the change was made.

A Friday event before the Devs and communication staff take the weekend off is NOT the time and place to announce something that is changing a definitive statement that was given to your customers, especially if you don't give them all of the details about the change.

And you can't say that they didn't know what the questions would be, because on something like this, you anticipate that you are likely going to get these types of questions, and the people doing the broadcast should be informed enough to give details.

ers101284b14_ESO

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

So @ers101284b14_ESO‌, you are saying that they didn't know before the ESO live that things were radically different than they had told us in the past? They didn't even have a thought that there might need to be changes that players would be interested in hearing about as soon as possible? Regardless of exactly when the change happened, it happened BEFORE the ESO Live event. As such, it should have been communicated before the event, and the players been given information as to why the change was made.

A Friday event before the Devs and communication staff take the weekend off is NOT the time and place to announce something that is changing a definitive statement that was given to your customers, especially if you don't give them all of the details about the change.

And you can't say that they didn't know what the questions would be, because on something like this, you anticipate that you are likely going to get these types of questions, and the people doing the broadcast should be informed enough to give details.

And they did. They explained that things had changed. They explained that it went from 400 points to cap a constellation to 100. They explained that end game players will not be over taken on CS points y new VR players. They did know before the Live show but how long before? We don't know that. Even if they knew a week before the live show they used the live show to communicate the change as well as how its going to go. And they even said it may change again. 1.6 is coming to PTS in January and going live in February which is over a month of testing. Its now December and that is quite a bit of time to plan accordingly. I'm not saying that sometimes their communication doesn't suck but it is wayyyyy better than it used to be so it is a start.

and as Kai said

Re: Reviewing the Champion System

Leijona wrote: »
ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is in contrast to earlier statements made that there will be more points champion and that this number would be based to a certain upper limit on the account far earned experience. The plan has changed in the meantime and we apologize for the confusion.

And we can probably assume that there are no plans to credit the account wide experience earned at a later date on the points champion , correct?
This is not planned. As initially written , says that has occurred in the design process reducing the maximum possible points champion and increasing their importance to the originally planned generous distribution of start- Champion points for existing players .

But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion .


Plans change
S*** happens


Edit: I have to go do family Christmas stuff. So Merry Christmas

DanielMaxwell

did ZOS lie no , but they did make a promise that it appears the where not able to fulfill and they need to come clean about it , and the reasons for it , to the player base

I am aware of what they said in the live stream , I think they need to be more detailed about the whole situation . Eric talking over Maria made it difficult to hear her .

Aett_Thorn

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

And they did. They explained that things had changed. They explained that it went from 400 points to cap a constellation to 100. They explained that end game players will not be over taken on CS points y new VR players. They did know before the Live show but how long before? We don't know that. Even if they knew a week before the live show they used the live show to communicate the change as well as how its going to go. And they even said it may change again. 1.6 is coming to PTS in January and going live in February which is over a month of testing. Its now December and that is quite a bit of time to plan accordingly. I'm not saying that sometimes their communication doesn't suck but it is wayyyyy better than it used to be so it is a start.

and as Kai said

Re: Reviewing the Champion System

Leijona wrote: »
ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »
This is in contrast to earlier statements made that there will be more points champion and that this number would be based to a certain upper limit on the account far earned experience. The plan has changed in the meantime and we apologize for the confusion.

And we can probably assume that there are no plans to credit the account wide experience earned at a later date on the points champion , correct?
This is not planned. As initially written , says that has occurred in the design process reducing the maximum possible points champion and increasing their importance to the originally planned generous distribution of start- Champion points for existing players .

But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion .


Plans change
S*** happens


Edit: I have to go do family Christmas stuff. So Merry Christmas

@ers101284b14_ESO‌,

First off, have a merry Christmas as well and have fun with your family.

Secondly, this is what I am talking about when it comes to how this should have been communicated: they aren't giving specifics, just more promises. When you are making more promises after you've just broken one, it is very tough for people to believe you. This is especially true if the person that you lied to is the one who catches it, and it's not the liar coming clean on their own.

They want to make it so that "players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion." Okay, how? If they don't know, they shouldn't say this. If they do know, NOW is the time to say so, because otherwise the players just feel like they got yanked around and are just getting another nondescript promise of "We'll try to make this okay somehow."

How are people who have already done all of the quests in Cadwell's Silver and Gold going to be able to get XP as quickly as those who haven't? We want to know.

Full disclosure: I am going to be one of the people helped by the 30 CP system. I have one VR 5 and a VR 1. That is it, along with several sub-50 characters.


Announcing this a week before the holidays, when you are going to be short on both developer and communication staff, was a huge mistake. It leaves you on the defensive when you don't have the resources that you need.


ALL of the reactions that you're seeing on these forums are completely predictable when you announce a change in an anticipated system, don't fully explain the change, and then don't communicate about the change for several days, and when you do, you don't answer the question that people have been asking. That will lead to speculation every time. It will lead to anger every time. It will lead to confusion every time.

It was bungled. On every level. From communication to planning to response. The Devs want to help repair relations with the community? They need to start by owning that, or at least learning from it.