Champion system will kill ESO

tkachukfan03ub17_ESO

The fact of the matter is this new system is a mistake. Long term statistical advancements like this in game never work for a lot of reasons. On one end the old players will be happy and satisfied with it but over time as people begin to quit naturally, the game will die down. Which wouldnt be a problem if new players were steadily flowing in but that will not happen with this because new players dont want to have to work so far from behind, Like most people who play mmos i am competitive and dont want to be punished at the start of a game because i started playing later than you. You can say "well after so many points spent the differences are minimal" but it still doesnt matter i want to be competitive with everyone else. I do not want to sit on my first few points while everyone else is at 200-300 and even consider trying to catch up because it wont happen. Would be alot easier just to play one of the other 10k mmos out there. Just my opinion on this subject not that it matters anymore. The only players this system is going to work for are the console players who will be mostly solo players not thinking too deeply into the game, Playing it just like old skyrim except with a few buddies and not having many reasons to be overly competitive about it so it will be perfect for them. If you really look at everything there doing in this update it is all put there for the console. Its the beginning of the end for the pc players but im sure ZOS already knows that.

Amsel_McKay

No it wont.

Workerdroid7

I'm not sure I understand how the Championship system is to blame for this. I started this game late (end of September) and I'm only a V4 now... I'm sooo outpowered by V14 guys in Cyrodiil it's just silly. On the other hand, when I do encounter V1 opponents, I can usually deal with them easily...

This is just the nature of any game that has a progression of skills/equipment/abilities. I don't know how any development team on any MMO could negate this. A new player cannot expect to compete against "older" players... it's just a fact of MMO life, and the Championship system is not going to change that, or introduce that fact.

NordJitsu

i actually think this is going to equalize endgame a lot.

Which is good, especially if you care about pvp.

Gyudan

In my opinion the champion system is better than the veteran system in that regard.
Right now, if you want to do endgame stuff or have the "best gear" possible, you need to be VR14 and that takes around 140 hours on top of the 1-50 leveling. At the moment, it doesn't really matter if you are VR1 or VR5 or VR9. You won't be able to do much endgame stuff until you reach VR12+.

With the champion system, while you won't be as good as an older player because of the amount of champion points that you're missing, you will still be access the best gear and will be able to progress in a more visible manner (meaning you don't need to wait X hours to actually do some thing). Your progression will also quicker than that of an older player and if you both spend the exact same amount of time, the difference between your characters should decrease day by day.

Syldayan

champion system is better than a VR system for pvp . You can spécialise in what you want and be efficent , you dont need to be capped ...

Elsonso

Champion System will replace Veteran Ranks, but does not seem to have any visible "max level". I think the bigger issue will be how the Champion System is perceived by the people who like to chase "max level" and can no longer see the max level.

In the end, it may be that you hit Level 50 and, for all intents and purposes, you are done. You can continue to build Champion Points and take passives, but what does that mean relative to the rest of the Level 50 players?

Did anyone hear anything about a way to tell how far along a character (or player) is along the Champion System?

Amsel_McKay

lordrichter wrote: »

Champion System will replace Veteran Ranks, but does not seem to have any visible "max level". I think the bigger issue will be how the Champion System is perceived by the people who like to chase "max level" and can no longer see the max level.

In the end, it may be that you hit Level 50 and, for all intents and purposes, you are done. You can continue to build Champion Points and take passives, but what does that mean relative to the rest of the Level 50 players?

Did anyone hear anything about a way to tell how far along a character (or player) is along the Champion System?

Why do people need to know how many CP points a person has what gear they have etc etc other then epeens... I mean if a player is level 50 and is a great player who cares... and if they kill you in PVP who cares. I think it would be very refreshing to have a game that "hid" the power of players and NPCs

Elsonso

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Champion System will replace Veteran Ranks, but does not seem to have any visible "max level". I think the bigger issue will be how the Champion System is perceived by the people who like to chase "max level" and can no longer see the max level.

In the end, it may be that you hit Level 50 and, for all intents and purposes, you are done. You can continue to build Champion Points and take passives, but what does that mean relative to the rest of the Level 50 players?

Did anyone hear anything about a way to tell how far along a character (or player) is along the Champion System?

Why do people need to know how many CP points a person has what gear they have etc etc other then epeens... I mean if a player is level 50 and is a great player who cares... and if they kill you in PVP who cares. I think it would be very refreshing to have a game that "hid" the power of players and NPCs

I tend to agree with you, but I am not certain that agreement will be universal.

The point I am trying to make is that ESO currently has a system where all Level 50 players are ranked from 1 to 14. This ranking is visible and itemization has been built around it. Bluntly, it is a "big thing" to know your Rank and many people consider VR14 to be "level cap" instead of 50, which may or may not be the intent of the game designers.

They are replacing it with a system that has no apparent "Rank" and a definite "level cap" of 50. If such a thing as a rank equivalent exists, it has not been revealed, or I have missed it. Suddenly, what was a "big thing" is "nothing" (cuteness intended).

This will undoubtedly cause some distress because a "VR14" has more Champion Points than a "VR1" in Champion System, but no one knows it.

It is like a huge demotion.

Rydik

tkachukfan03ub17_ESO wrote: »

The fact of the matter is this new system is a mistake. Long term statistical advancements like this in game never work for a lot of reasons. On one end the old players will be happy and satisfied with it but over time as people begin to quit naturally, the game will die down. Which wouldnt be a problem if new players were steadily flowing in but that will not happen with this because new players dont want to have to work so far from behind, Like most people who play mmos i am competitive and dont want to be punished at the start of a game because i started playing later than you. You can say "well after so many points spent the differences are minimal" but it still doesnt matter i want to be competitive with everyone else. I do not want to sit on my first few points while everyone else is at 200-300 and even consider trying to catch up because it wont happen. Would be alot easier just to play one of the other 10k mmos out there. Just my opinion on this subject not that it matters anymore. The only players this system is going to work for are the console players who will be mostly solo players not thinking too deeply into the game, Playing it just like old skyrim except with a few buddies and not having many reasons to be overly competitive about it so it will be perfect for them. If you really look at everything there doing in this update it is all put there for the console. Its the beginning of the end for the pc players but im sure ZOS already knows that.

In any MMO you need to progress yourself before you will be competitive and this takes time, in any MMO if you start later you will spend a lot of time to catch up with others. But if you want everything, and you want do nothing for that, its your problem, not the system...

Xjcon

Didn't even read your post. It won't die nuff said

prototypefb

as i see it, ZOS are working hard to improve this awesome game, yes they are facing constant challenges, issues in general with the game but this is mmo, it's 'rocketscience' , any one small thing(or big) affects something else and so on.
ZOS are doing good job so far, and best stuff is still in works(i believe), this game beats most f2p and also p2p games out there.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Perhaps you should look into it more? Not one thing I have read so far is doing anything to kill the game, only making it better. It actually makes it easier for people to catch up. Pretty simple concept I think.

JackDaniell

You wrote this post without conducting proper research, the way the points scale a person who has 1000 CP will not be overwhelmingly ahead of a person who has 100 CP.

CP will give diminishing return as you use more of them in the same area, starting at 1%, 0.9%, 0.8% ect. This thread should be deleted as it inspires confusion and is incorrect.

Elsonso

JackDaniell wrote: »

You wrote this post without conducting proper research, the way the points scale a person who has 1000 CP will not be overwhelmingly ahead of a person who has 100 CP.

CP will give diminishing return as you use more of them in the same area, starting at 1%, 0.9%, 0.8% ect. This thread should he deleted as it inspires confusion and is incorrect.

Maybe not "overwhelmingly" but there will be a significant difference between 1000 CP and 100 CP. Running the numbers that we know, a person with 1000 CP will be ahead of the person who has 100 CP.

A person who has 1000 CP is only 125 CP away from getting all of the passives. They have enough invested in each of the 36 stars to be in the neighborhood of +10% in each stat advanced by the star passives, if they spread them evenly.

A person who has 100 CP spread evenly will have 2 points in 9 stars, for +1.9%, and 3 points in 27 of the stars for, +2.7%. We assume a progression of 1%, 0.9%, 0.8% for stat bonuses.

This is based on what Maria said and the example she used where she said that 20-30 points will be enough to get a +10% stat bonus.

Now, one thing to consider is that they claim that Champion System is secondary to equipment, so a well equipped 100 CP player may be able to be on par with a poorly equipped 1000 CP player. That is too soon to evaluate.

Equipment will be easier to come by than CP, so any player that has been in the game long enough to collect 1000 CP is unlikely to be having equipment challenges.

MrGhosty

cries of "this will drive people away!" seems a bit of a fear mongering sentiment to me. For anyone to max out their points figuring an hour of game time would need to play for years to ever be maxed out. These changes are passive and from what I've seen will allow more diverse builds to be competitive and provide a meaningful progression beyond what is currently offered.

The demands that new players should instantly be on level with long time players is ridiculous and nonsensical. No game puts you on the same level as veteran players the instant you log in the first time except games that are considered pay to win which no one wants. From everything shown so far, this system rewards long time players but provides meaningful ways for new players to close the gap which is a nice balance.

badmojo

I actually think the CS will breath new life into the game. Veteran ranks were killing the fun of being over level 50.

I have my reservations about some of the mechanics, but the overall goal of the champion system seems like just the thing ESO needs at this point of its evolution.

JackDaniell

lordrichter wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

You wrote this post without conducting proper research, the way the points scale a person who has 1000 CP will not be overwhelmingly ahead of a person who has 100 CP.

CP will give diminishing return as you use more of them in the same area, starting at 1%, 0.9%, 0.8% ect. This thread should he deleted as it inspires confusion and is incorrect.

Maybe not "overwhelmingly" but there will be a significant difference between 1000 CP and 100 CP. Running the numbers that we know, a person with 1000 CP will be ahead of the person who has 100 CP.

A person who has 1000 CP is only 125 CP away from getting all of the passives. They have enough invested in each of the 36 stars to be in the neighborhood of +10% in each stat advanced by the star passives, if they spread them evenly.

A person who has 100 CP spread evenly will have 2 points in 9 stars, for +1.9%, and 3 points in 27 of the stars for, +2.7%. We assume a progression of 1%, 0.9%, 0.8% for stat bonuses.

This is based on what Maria said and the example she used where she said that 20-30 points will be enough to get a +10% stat bonus.

Now, one thing to consider is that they claim that Champion System is secondary to equipment, so a well equipped 100 CP player may be able to be on par with a poorly equipped 1000 CP player. That is too soon to evaluate.

Equipment will be easier to come by than CP, so any player that has been in the game long enough to collect 1000 CP is unlikely to be having equipment challenges.

Those are great points, I don't think the gap will be much different than it is now between a v14 and a v1.

Elsonso

MrGhosty wrote: »

cries of "this will drive people away!" seems a bit of a fear mongering sentiment to me.

There is definitely going to be player power separation issues as the system matures. I expect to see cases where a long time player with hundreds of CP, today's VR14 players, can generate a new character and be able to spend a few hundred, or one or two thousand, CP on a new "Level 3 Champion" wearing greens in Auridon.

According to the Champion System as we know it today, this Level 3 Champion should be more powerful, possibly by 10-20%, than the character created by someone who just purchased the game. The Level 3 Champion will also benefit from a number of tiered passives that the new player simply does not have.

*I* won't say that the game is doomed, but I do see a player caste system being emphasized by Champion System down the road. As a player with really no CP coming in my direction, I expect to see first hand how that works from the underside. Early adopters will definitely benefit.

On a related note, I am curious how they intend to "rank" players in the Champion System. If they don't provide some way for some of the current VR14s to be reassured that they are, in every way, superior to the current VR1s, and have it so that everyone knows it, it may very well drive them away. I have to think that there is something there to cover that, so hopefully this will be revealed in a future press release.

Averya_Teira

JackDaniell wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

You wrote this post without conducting proper research, the way the points scale a person who has 1000 CP will not be overwhelmingly ahead of a person who has 100 CP.

CP will give diminishing return as you use more of them in the same area, starting at 1%, 0.9%, 0.8% ect. This thread should he deleted as it inspires confusion and is incorrect.

Maybe not "overwhelmingly" but there will be a significant difference between 1000 CP and 100 CP. Running the numbers that we know, a person with 1000 CP will be ahead of the person who has 100 CP.

A person who has 1000 CP is only 125 CP away from getting all of the passives. They have enough invested in each of the 36 stars to be in the neighborhood of +10% in each stat advanced by the star passives, if they spread them evenly.

A person who has 100 CP spread evenly will have 2 points in 9 stars, for +1.9%, and 3 points in 27 of the stars for, +2.7%. We assume a progression of 1%, 0.9%, 0.8% for stat bonuses.

This is based on what Maria said and the example she used where she said that 20-30 points will be enough to get a +10% stat bonus.

Now, one thing to consider is that they claim that Champion System is secondary to equipment, so a well equipped 100 CP player may be able to be on par with a poorly equipped 1000 CP player. That is too soon to evaluate.

Equipment will be easier to come by than CP, so any player that has been in the game long enough to collect 1000 CP is unlikely to be having equipment challenges.

Those are great points, I don't think the gap will be much different than it is now between a v14 and a v1.

It will be VERY different. Right now, a V1 cannot even think about doing endgame content. Even the scaled Veteran Dungeons are hard as V1. With the champion system, even if you only have 30 CP and someone has 200 CP, you both can do the same content, it'll just be 5-10% easier for the one with 200 CP.

PBpsy

It will not kill it. It will just possibly change it form something like a hot psychotic girlfriend into a not so hot psycho fat ex-wife.
PS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph

Samadhi

The champion system will kill the weak part of ESO and the game will be stronger after.

Voodoo

Its a MMO. ppl work from behind all the time. I couldnt disagree more.

Audigy

I am still critical in regards of a few features of the CS, but in the long run it should help.

However, the OP has a point that was however a bit lost in his wall of text.

ESO is a lot about PVP, its one of the big features of the game and I am sure that in future brackets have to come up to balance players. Once the VR system is gone, everyone at 50 will fight in the same bracket.

If we now assume someone has spent 500 CP´s, then he will be much more powerful than someone with 0 CP´s and a new char. In theory this does seem alright, as the one guy is new and the other old. The key point however is, that someone with 500 CP´s can easily ruin the fun for the new guy who then most likely quits.

This issue has come up at WS, SWTOR and WOW before and lead to forcing players into making premades to enter competitive pvp, just like with raiding to protect those "newbies".

I honestly don't want to see these steps in ESO, as it hurts solo players most. That said, ZO must work a way out to also give new players an even playground where they are allowed to have fun and contribute, be it in pvp or pve.

ZOS_MichelleA

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