Why play as a healer?

Ommamar

So I ran the Vet level spindleclutch as a healer this weekend. It was myself a VR2 healer, a VR12 and two VR14 filling the other roles. We made it through with minimal problems death wise. Everyone got a gold key and two people linked the boss helms in group. I got NO loot at all! Not even gold. So I ask once I am done grinding the skill line what purpose is there for me to continue to run as a healer? I was told it was based on damage, all the damage I did was with restro stave for mana return so it was negligible. I see no motivation other then the skill raise at the moment to run these pledges as a healer. I am hoping that my experience was uncommon but I have a feeling it wasn't. If this continues I believe there will be a lack of healers for veteran pledges.

Now you might say it was the level difference but I have ran as a VR1 tank with VR14's and gotten loot drops. I also went shard hunting into the Cyrodil delves with my level 16 DPS NB with a level 27 and a level 40 and got plenty of loot.

yodased

It depends on who it was scaled to. If you are VR1 in a VR1 dungeon, the VR14s aren't getting loot.

If you are a VR1 in a VR14 scaled dungeon loot, you aren't getting loot.

Gorthax

I dont know about gold. Bosses drop gold and loot for EVERYONE. There is no getting screwed there. As for gold from trash mobs, thats just random.

There isnt a lack of healers lol trust me. You got used so they could have a faceroll time with the dungeon. Do the dungeon with people your level and see how important you are.

Ommamar

yodased wrote: »

It depends on who it was scaled to. If you are VR1 in a VR1 dungeon, the VR14s aren't getting loot.

If you are a VR1 in a VR14 scaled dungeon loot, you aren't getting loot.

It was scaled to VR2 and they at least got the helm as they link them in chat.

Gorthax wrote: »

I dont know about gold. Bosses drop gold and loot for EVERYONE. There is no getting screwed there. As for gold from trash mobs, thats just random.

There isnt a lack of healers lol trust me. You got used so they could have a faceroll time with the dungeon. Do the dungeon with people your level and see how important you are.

Ok but given how hard it can be to find a pledge group I grab the first one I can. So you think it is ok to go through a dungeon and get nothing? Random I can accept but no loot at all there is something wrong there. As to the Bosses dropping loot for EVERYONE. I say again I received no loot from anything other then the gold key chest. It has happened a few times before as a healer but never as a tank or DPS.

Elloa

No matter what is the level of your Scaled Dungeon, if you have too high level in your party (Vet 14 when you are Vet2 for example), you will not have any loot, unless you do a bit of damage.

I'm in this situation constantly, as I'm Vet2 healer myself, and I join up my friends in Dungeons, we often do Vet6 or Vet12 instances.
So, I find out that if I participate a little bit in the DPS, spamming a spell when ther is not much damage (in my case I use reflective light) in between my heals and charging my weapon, will give me access to loot.

I know this migth be annoying but this is a features used to prevent players to be carried.

It depends on who it was scaled to. If you are VR1 in a VR1 dungeon, the VR14s aren't getting loot.

If you are a VR1 in a VR14 scaled dungeon loot, you aren't getting loot.

This, according to my experience is not correct. The level of the Dungeon doesn't mater. If you have high level in your party you do not get loot unless you do some damage. Might be even more interesting to have your instance scaled to their level rather than yours, cause if the dungeon is your level, your high level friend will kill the mobs too fast leaving you no time to dps and get loot.

LunaRae

Anyone telling you it's based on damage dealt is speaking out of their @$$, sorry to say. Just not true, and I speak from a dedicated healer experience.

Islyn

V14 Templar Healer and I do only v14 leveled pledges. I have had like 5 or 6 helms so *shrugs* I think it might just be the difference between your level and your groupmates' levels.

xaraan

It's not the healer role, it's the level. If you are more than 4 levels difference from the others, you won't really earn any xp.

timidobserver

If you insist on running with higher leveled people, drop a blazing spear every so often and you may get more loot.

Merlin13KAGL

OP, damage is the primary thing, which is why the tank's are the most likely to get hosed.

Healing counts at about a 50% rate compared to DPS, so it's not that you have to do damage comparable to the DPS's - you simply won't.

If you throw heals out that work out to the equivalent to about 16% of the boss HP's, where DPS's have to put out about 8%, you will still get loot/XP's/drops.

Provided your party is taking some damage, this is usually not hard to do.

Keep mutagen and Springs going on a regular basis, and you shouldn't have any trouble.

Problem is, with that much of a level gap, your VR12 & VR14 pals are blasting through stuff without taking a lot of damage. It's not enough that you are casting heals, you have to healing... No damage, no healing. Self healing (Crit Surge, NB skills), no healing.

Start your HoT's before the battle begins, restro heavy when you need mana, you'll get the drops.

Also, in most cases, you can ask the higher levels to ease back a bit and let you get some extra in.

The benefit of being a healer are threefold:

Number 1, you're not always going to be a Vet 2. You're gaining valuable experience running these. Heal well as a VR2, you'll heal very well as a VR12.

Number 2, if you can run these as a healer, keeping four people alive, running them later as a DPS will be a piece of cake, as you'll only be keeping two people alive (yourself and the healer).

Number 3, get good at what you do, and you will be remembered and requested. This will pay off in the long run.

If you are generous with the two skills mentioned above, you should get drops more often than not. Are you going to get purple helms each run, not likely, but the runs should continue to be worth your while.

Healing is actually one of the easier ways to get XP's and drops, even from passer by's. Through out Mutagen when someone you don't even know is in a fight, and you're liable to see outline of yellow when they're done, all without ever having contributed a single point of damage.

The key thing with what you describe is more about the greater-than-5-level-difference between you and the next guy than it is about DPS/not DPS.

Elloa wrote: »

It depends on who it was scaled to. If you are VR1 in a VR1 dungeon, the VR14s aren't getting loot.

If you are a VR1 in a VR14 scaled dungeon loot, you aren't getting loot.

This, according to my experience is not correct. The level of the Dungeon doesn't mater. If you have high level in your party you do not get loot unless you do some damage. Might be even more interesting to have your instance scaled to their level rather than yours, cause if the dungeon is your level, your high level friend will kill the mobs too fast leaving you no time to dps and get loot.

Everyone can always get loot. VR14's running a VR1 scaled dungeon will still get loot, it just won't be VR14 loot.

A VR1 running a VRanything scaled dungeon will always get VR1 loot.

This isn't done to reduce your take. This is done so that whatever you loot is usable by you.

Aeratus

Dropped loot has nothing to do with damage. Everyone in the group gets the same chances for loot. Even if you didn't attack the boss at all, you will still get loot.

(The only exception to this rule is that only a maximum of 12 people can get credit for a kill. So if your group is larger than 12 people, then only 12 people will get loot and xp for each kill. Given that you can't have more than 4 people in a dungeon instance, this isn't a problem.)

cote-bmsb16_ESO

I suspect you are with players that are too high above your level. We did this last night, three v14s and one v1. Our lil v1 tank wasn't getting any loot either. The dungeons were scaled to v1. The v14s were getting v1 drops. Seems to contradict what everyone is saying though--thats what happened.
I read somewhere that you were suppose to be within a few levels of each other, in order to get proper exp & loot.

Ommamar

I agree the closer the level the better of it is but particularly in pledges it isn't happening at the moment. In every other game I had a dedicated group I usually ran with, in ESO a pug is much more likely. No way am I going to say to someone who has agreed to run a pledge I won't do it because of your level. I do keep Illuminating shards in my rotation and hit with the Restro stave. What is intersting in another thread there was a very vocal part of the community that insisted any healer doing any kind of DPS was a "bad" healer. Makes me feel like the Mayor on the Simpsons, "I give up you people don't know what you want!"
As to the level look at my non vet example in that group there was 11 levels between one of us and 23 levels between the other. Yet as a DPS I still got a good amount of loot.
It just seems unbalanced to have it based on damage with no regard to the person keeping everyone alive to do damage.

Kraven

As many mentioned it's the level difference. My wife has the same issue being that she's lower leveled than most people we play with. If I play an alt, which last time we did it she was v6, I was v9 and other 2 members were v14, she got experience if she spam healed. Last night I played my v14 so it was 3 of us at V14 and her at V7, she didn't get any xp or loot. Her and my alt are mara'd not sure if that is having an effect or not.

Merlin13KAGL

Aeratus wrote: »

Dropped loot has nothing to do with damage. Everyone in the group gets the same chances for loot. Even if you didn't attack the boss at all, you will still get loot.

(The only exception to this rule is that only a maximum of 12 people can get credit for a kill. So if your group is larger than 12 people, then only 12 people will get loot and xp for each kill. Given that you can't have more than 4 people in a dungeon instance, this isn't a problem.)

Ommamar wrote: »

It just seems unbalanced to have it based on damage with no regard to the person keeping everyone alive to do damage.

@Aeratus ,
From 1.5.2 patch notes...

• When grouped, players with a Veteran Rank more than five ranks lower than other group members must now contribute sufficient damage to enemies to receive XP or loot from them.
  • This requirement was already in place for groups from levels 1-49.

@Ommamar ,

Healing is the other exception to this, getting about 50% credit. This is still more than sufficient and easy to meet in almost any circumstance. Most mobs and almost all bosses are going to easily put out 20% of their own health in terms of damage dealt.

It's the level discrepancy causing the issue, not the fact that the OP's a healer.

1.5.2 Doesn't keep people that don't do DPS from getting drops, it's intended to keep people that don't do anything (ride-along's) from getting drops.

Potenza

Doesn't sound encouraging as I was wanting to build a Templar healer, but maybe not.

Natjur

As reported in a few posts,
No Exp = No Loot.
If you are healing and not doing any DPS, you will get no loot and no exp.

Rule 1
You have to be within 5 levels on the mob but as your vet level this is not an issue as all vet levels = 50 and therefore this rule does not apply to the OP

Rule 2
To get exp and loot you have to do one of the following
(1)At least 8.3% dps damage to the mobs
(2)Heal for 20% of the mobs total health and ONE heavy or light attack. (if you only heal and do zero dps, you will not get exp, so do one attack min)

So if your doing an instance that is scaled down to V2 and the tank is V14, they will be getting hit for very little and the chance of you healing for 20% of the mobs total health is unlikely.

If a mob has 40k health, and your the healer, you have to heal for 8k and do one heavy attack to get exp and loot, but if the mob never hits the tank/group for 8k of damage, you get nothing unless you have also done 8.3% of the total dps as well. This is why low level healers doing vet instances get nothing.

Some people say there is a third rule but I have not done enough tests to confirm this yet. They say that if the level range in the group is greater then 5 levels, the percentages required in Rule 2 increases. Some say the lowest member of the group if there are 5 levels difference have to do 20% of the dps damage before getting exp and loot to stop power leveling. But I have not done enough tests to prove\disprove this.

Either way, they need to disable theses rules in private four man instances and maybe even disabled in trials

Natjur

ZOS_MollyH wrote: »

Hello folks!

For healers to receive experience and loot in dungeons, they will need to heal for 20% health. It is currently working as designed.

If you use the /feedback command while in game, your suggestions regarding balance will go straight to our development team for consideration.

Thank you again!

Surfinginhawaii

That is kind of screwed up for healers who in my opinion are essential for runs. Don't give up being a healer, you are needed .

Slurg

So from what I'm reading, the short answer is, only be a group healer if the rest of your group isn't so much higher in level that they kill all the mobs before you can get your 20% ZOS-confirmed heal rate in. Or since a group like that probably doesn't need a lot of healing, if you find yourself in one, swap in some damage on occasion.

Sounds more than a little frustrating for the average player who isn't in the know.

AaronMB

Sounds like you should have used your bow, @Ommamar‌. Ya can't win either way, my brother.

Elloa

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

That is kind of screwed up for healers who in my opinion are essential for runs. Don't give up being a healer, you are needed .

It feel like the game is overhelmed by healers or its just my guild?

Natjur

Elloa wrote: »

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

That is kind of screwed up for healers who in my opinion are essential for runs. Don't give up being a healer, you are needed .

It feel like the game is overhelmed by healers or its just my guild?

Anyone can dps, and templars are easy to level (biting jabs) so there are lots of dps and healers, but few who want to tank. Any class can tank, but DK and Templars have it easier. But the way tanking is setup, if you do very low dps, you will get little loot\exp.

Still, anyone who heals only (excluding trials) and does zero dps..... is doing something wrong.

Ommamar

AaronMB wrote: »

Sounds like you should have used your bow, @Ommamar‌. Ya can't win either way, my brother.

Hey AaronMB! I know right, first it is don't even touch that bow! Then it is oh you are doing it wrong because you just healed (I didn't but apparently. my DPS was to low).

Natjur wrote: »

As reported in a few posts,
No Exp = No Loot.
If you are healing and not doing any DPS, you will get no loot and no exp.

Rule 1
You have to be within 5 levels on the mob but as your vet level this is not an issue as all vet levels = 50 and therefore this rule does not apply to the OP

Rule 2
To get exp and loot you have to do one of the following
(1)At least 8.3% dps damage to the mobs
(2)Heal for 20% of the mobs total health and ONE heavy or light attack. (if you only heal and do zero dps, you will not get exp, so do one attack min)

So if your doing an instance that is scaled down to V2 and the tank is V14, they will be getting hit for very little and the chance of you healing for 20% of the mobs total health is unlikely.

If a mob has 40k health, and your the healer, you have to heal for 8k and do one heavy attack to get exp and loot, but if the mob never hits the tank/group for 8k of damage, you get nothing unless you have also done 8.3% of the total dps as well. This is why low level healers doing vet instances get nothing.

Some people say there is a third rule but I have not done enough tests to confirm this yet. They say that if the level range in the group is greater then 5 levels, the percentages required in Rule 2 increases. Some say the lowest member of the group if there are 5 levels difference have to do 20% of the dps damage before getting exp and loot to stop power leveling. But I have not done enough tests to prove\disprove this.

Either way, they need to disable theses rules in private four man instances and maybe even disabled in trials

So has anyone done it the other way where the VR14 is the lead? I am sure this raises the difficulty exponentially so most want to do it that way. At the same time if I am not getting any loot/exp and the VR14 is getting a free ride that makes me not want to do it with VR14 even though it is a nearly guaranteed completion. I hope they really rework the system as it doesn't seem fair the way it is.

Evandus

So has anyone done it the other way where the VR14 is the lead? I am sure this raises the difficulty exponentially so most want to do it that way. At the same time if I am not getting any loot/exp and the VR14 is getting a free ride that makes me not want to do it with VR14 even though it is a nearly guaranteed completion. I hope they really rework the system as it doesn't seem fair the way it is.

Amen.