Vampire Stage 4 & Justice System

cravnbeer

I saw that with the new justice system stage 4 vampire is a crime. Does anyone know
will there be some sort of safe city for stage 4 vampires or will the timers be increased?

MornaBaine

I REALLY hope they are going to increase the Stage timers! They have NEVER made sense as they are currently implemented anyway. I have wanted there to be consequences for letting your vampire get to Stage 4 for a long time but the way it's set up now it's going to be ridiculously hard for players to avoid this in any reasonable manner. I wish ZOS would give us some information on this!

reagen_lionel

Yeah I never did agree with how they implemented vampire stages. The time for each stage is far too short as well.

Not to mention a vampires powers get stronger the more starved they are that this system implies is just folly and nonsensical. Should be reversed in my opinion.

But the stages require a significant increase in thier duration.That is certain. I am glad for the idea for the justice system recognizing vampirism as a crime, as it is now however, Its way too easy to have this occur and much too often. I like the consequence however.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

cravnbeer wrote: »

I saw that with the new justice system stage 4 vampire is a crime. Does anyone know
will there be some sort of safe city for stage 4 vampires or will the timers be increased?

Why should there be a 'safe city'? Being a blood crazed vampire IS a crime to ALL living beings. At stage 4, that is what a vampire is. Be thankful that it is only stage 4. With the Twilight wannabes (you know those who openly talk about being a vampire), I'd opt for the guards to KOS at stage 1. (Discretion is the key to successful vampire RP!)

MornaBaine

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Yeah I never did agree with how they implemented vampire stages. The time for each stage is far too short as well.

Not to mention a vampires powers get stronger the more starved they are that this system implies is just folly and nonsensical. Should be reversed in my opinion.

ALL OF THIS! ^^^ I know the other TES games did something similar where there was a shifting balance of strengths and weaknesses among the stages but...c'mon! How does that make any sense?

reagen_lionel wrote: »

But the stages require a significant increase in thier duration.That is certain. I am glad for the idea for the justice system recognizing vampirism as a crime, as it is now however, Its way too easy to have this occur and much too often. I like the consequence however.

Totally agreed. Now if agents of Stendarr could go busting in and attacking the really bad roleplayers in the inns who like to openly state that they are vampires in public...

Knootewoot

In Rivenspire there is a house with some Vampires. We could live there. they are non agro. It's way out of the city though. Maybe they could add some Vampire vendors aswell. I live in a cave in cyrrodil. I feed on pirates who also live in there. Sometimes another player i eat.

MornaBaine

Knootewoot wrote: »

In Rivenspire there is a house with some Vampires. We could live there. they are non agro. It's way out of the city though. Maybe they could add some Vampire vendors aswell. I live in a cave in cyrrodil. I feed on pirates who also live in there. Sometimes another player i eat.

How the heck is it I don't remember where that is??? Now I gotta go find it again!

cravnbeer

Safe city, as in a harbor for vampires. If they are outlawed wouldn't it just make sense that they would build themselves a safe haven.
I would prefer the timers increased over a safe haven but really wouldn't there be some trade post that was more open and just simply a black market were most there would look the other way with things such as vampirism or a bounty.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

In Rivenspire there is a house with some Vampires. We could live there. they are non agro. It's way out of the city though. Maybe they could add some Vampire vendors aswell. I live in a cave in cyrrodil. I feed on pirates who also live in there. Sometimes another player i eat.

How the heck is it I don't remember where that is??? Now I gotta go find it again!

He is referring to Castle Ravenwatch I bet.

MornaBaine

cravnbeer wrote: »

Safe city, as in a harbor for vampires. If they are outlawed wouldn't it just make sense they would build themselves a safe haven.
I would prefer the timers increased over a safe haven but really wouldn't there be some trade post that was more open and just simply a black market were most there would look the other way with things such as vampirism or a bounty.

I'm fairly certain there are going to be some places where criminal scum...ummm...victims of mistaken identity... can go to do things until the heat is off of them. Vampires who have allowed themselves to degenerate to the point of having that absolutely vile skin condition will probably also find acceptance there...as long as they have coin.

TheHutz

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

cravnbeer wrote: »

I saw that with the new justice system stage 4 vampire is a crime. Does anyone know
will there be some sort of safe city for stage 4 vampires or will the timers be increased?

Why should there be a 'safe city'? Being a blood crazed vampire IS a crime to ALL living beings. At stage 4, that is what a vampire is. Be thankful that it is only stage 4. With the Twilight wannabes (you know those who openly talk about being a vampire), I'd opt for the guards to KOS at stage 1. (Discretion is the key to successful vampire RP!)

Except with the number of vampires in this game it only makes sense that they'd create some kind of haven for themselves. I'm a dunmer templar healer/caster, it makes sense to be a vampire for the magic regen, I couldn't care less about the RP aspect. I'm fine with not being able to wander into just any city but I dont want to have to feed and lessen my bonuses everytime i have to unload my inventory.

Knootewoot

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

In Rivenspire there is a house with some Vampires. We could live there. they are non agro. It's way out of the city though. Maybe they could add some Vampire vendors aswell. I live in a cave in cyrrodil. I feed on pirates who also live in there. Sometimes another player i eat.

How the heck is it I don't remember where that is??? Now I gotta go find it again!

He is referring to Castle Ravenwatch I bet.

Yes, thats it.

Also in the EP zone was a house near windhelm.

But i like to hang out in ravenwatch. Also some NPC's nearby if you want to feed.

MornaBaine

TheHutz wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

cravnbeer wrote: »

I saw that with the new justice system stage 4 vampire is a crime. Does anyone know
will there be some sort of safe city for stage 4 vampires or will the timers be increased?

Why should there be a 'safe city'? Being a blood crazed vampire IS a crime to ALL living beings. At stage 4, that is what a vampire is. Be thankful that it is only stage 4. With the Twilight wannabes (you know those who openly talk about being a vampire), I'd opt for the guards to KOS at stage 1. (Discretion is the key to successful vampire RP!)

Except with the number of vampires in this game it only makes sense that they'd create some kind of haven for themselves. I'm a dunmer templar healer/caster, it makes sense to be a vampire for the magic regen, I couldn't care less about the RP aspect. I'm fine with not being able to wander into just any city but I dont want to have to feed and lessen my bonuses everytime i have to unload my inventory.

This is exactly what is WRONG with the vampire Stages. You should NOT want to be in Stage 4. Stage 4 should be a TERRIBLE place to be. But because vampires were implemented SO POORLY by ZOS they became the "go to" skill line for PvP and even though they have been nerfed into the ground it is still "better" from a mechanics standpoint to be in Stage 4. And GETTING to Stage 4 requires zero effort...which is also a bad thing. You're supposed to have to WORK to STAY in the optimal Stages...which logically should be 1 and 2.

I predicted way back at the very first mention of the possiblyof there being consequences to being in Stage 4 with the Justice System that PvPers would instantly start screaming that it wasn't fair for them to be "forced" to leave Stage 4. Way to go ZOS.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

TheHutz wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

cravnbeer wrote: »

I saw that with the new justice system stage 4 vampire is a crime. Does anyone know
will there be some sort of safe city for stage 4 vampires or will the timers be increased?

Why should there be a 'safe city'? Being a blood crazed vampire IS a crime to ALL living beings. At stage 4, that is what a vampire is. Be thankful that it is only stage 4. With the Twilight wannabes (you know those who openly talk about being a vampire), I'd opt for the guards to KOS at stage 1. (Discretion is the key to successful vampire RP!)

Except with the number of vampires in this game it only makes sense that they'd create some kind of haven for themselves. I'm a dunmer templar healer/caster, it makes sense to be a vampire for the magic regen, I couldn't care less about the RP aspect. I'm fine with not being able to wander into just any city but I dont want to have to feed and lessen my bonuses everytime i have to unload my inventory.

Well, as I have had to do the inventory shuffle last night, I do understand the importance of merchants outside of cities. There are a few. There is one in Lord Diel's camp, one wandering east of Daggerfall and at least two wandering around Bangkorai. I am sure that they exist in the other zones but these are the ones I can name off the top of my head. There is an achievement for intimidating the wandering merchants.

And I think you mean that as a non-RPer, you could care less. Couldn't care less means that it is very important to you. Sorry, former high school teacher here. *grins*

TheHutz

MornaBaine wrote: »

TheHutz wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

cravnbeer wrote: »

I saw that with the new justice system stage 4 vampire is a crime. Does anyone know
will there be some sort of safe city for stage 4 vampires or will the timers be increased?

Why should there be a 'safe city'? Being a blood crazed vampire IS a crime to ALL living beings. At stage 4, that is what a vampire is. Be thankful that it is only stage 4. With the Twilight wannabes (you know those who openly talk about being a vampire), I'd opt for the guards to KOS at stage 1. (Discretion is the key to successful vampire RP!)

Except with the number of vampires in this game it only makes sense that they'd create some kind of haven for themselves. I'm a dunmer templar healer/caster, it makes sense to be a vampire for the magic regen, I couldn't care less about the RP aspect. I'm fine with not being able to wander into just any city but I dont want to have to feed and lessen my bonuses everytime i have to unload my inventory.

This is exactly what is WRONG with the vampire Stages. You should NOT want to be in Stage 4. Stage 4 should be a TERRIBLE place to be. But because vampires were implemented SO POORLY by ZOS they became the "go to" skill line for PvP and even though they have been nerfed into the ground it is still "better" from a mechanics standpoint to be in Stage 4. And GETTING to Stage 4 requires zero effort...which is also a bad thing. You're supposed to have to WORK to STAY in the optimal Stages...which logically should be 1 and 2.

I predicted way back at the very first mention of the possiblyof there being consequences to being in Stage 4 with the Justice System that PvPers would instantly start screaming that it wasn't fair for them to be "forced" to leave Stage 4. Way to go ZOS.

I'm also fine with having to feed more, as long as they lengthen the amount of time it takes to devolve between stages. I don't want to feed every 20 minutes either.

MornaBaine

TheHutz wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

TheHutz wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

cravnbeer wrote: »

I saw that with the new justice system stage 4 vampire is a crime. Does anyone know
will there be some sort of safe city for stage 4 vampires or will the timers be increased?

Why should there be a 'safe city'? Being a blood crazed vampire IS a crime to ALL living beings. At stage 4, that is what a vampire is. Be thankful that it is only stage 4. With the Twilight wannabes (you know those who openly talk about being a vampire), I'd opt for the guards to KOS at stage 1. (Discretion is the key to successful vampire RP!)

Except with the number of vampires in this game it only makes sense that they'd create some kind of haven for themselves. I'm a dunmer templar healer/caster, it makes sense to be a vampire for the magic regen, I couldn't care less about the RP aspect. I'm fine with not being able to wander into just any city but I dont want to have to feed and lessen my bonuses everytime i have to unload my inventory.

This is exactly what is WRONG with the vampire Stages. You should NOT want to be in Stage 4. Stage 4 should be a TERRIBLE place to be. But because vampires were implemented SO POORLY by ZOS they became the "go to" skill line for PvP and even though they have been nerfed into the ground it is still "better" from a mechanics standpoint to be in Stage 4. And GETTING to Stage 4 requires zero effort...which is also a bad thing. You're supposed to have to WORK to STAY in the optimal Stages...which logically should be 1 and 2.

I predicted way back at the very first mention of the possiblyof there being consequences to being in Stage 4 with the Justice System that PvPers would instantly start screaming that it wasn't fair for them to be "forced" to leave Stage 4. Way to go ZOS.

I'm also fine with having to feed more, as long as they lengthen the amount of time it takes to devolve between stages. I don't want to feed every 20 minutes either.

Yep, the Stage timers as they are, are TERRIBLE. Maybe this will finally force ZOS to address the issue. I freaking HATE that I have to CONSTANTLY feed to maintain Stage 1, something that is actually completely impossible in MOST situations you find yourself in, in the the game.

Of course, IF they do that then the PvPers will be upset that not only are they "forced" to leave Stage 4 to conduct business in towns but that it will then also take longer for them to get back to their precious Stage 4.

Robocles

I still haven't seen where they actually said it would be considered a "crime"... he made a remark about NPCs reacting, but I haven't seen anything beyond that.

MornaBaine

Robocles wrote: »

I still haven't seen where they actually said it would be considered a "crime"... he made a remark about NPCs reacting, but I haven't seen anything beyond that.

I believe it was mentioned as being a crime in passing in the latest Livestream.

cravnbeer

I thought skyrim's vampire stages worked similar. the longer you go without feeding the stronger you became.
I actually enjoy the vampire set up currently, I get to enjoy the game with my limited play time. Having to worry about my stage when I just want to sell, deposit, craft I will find annoying especially with the current time of the stages

Robocles

MornaBaine wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

I still haven't seen where they actually said it would be considered a "crime"... he made a remark about NPCs reacting, but I haven't seen anything beyond that.

I believe it was mentioned as being a crime in passing in the latest Livestream.

I watched it twice and didn't see them confirm it.

dharbert

Robocles wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

I still haven't seen where they actually said it would be considered a "crime"... he made a remark about NPCs reacting, but I haven't seen anything beyond that.

I believe it was mentioned as being a crime in passing in the latest Livestream.

I watched it twice and didn't see them confirm it.

Like I said in a different thread, if they would take a minute to post some solid information (in print) on this forum, there would be no need for 1,000 threads, never-ending questions, and wild speculation.

MornaBaine

dharbert wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Robocles wrote: »

I still haven't seen where they actually said it would be considered a "crime"... he made a remark about NPCs reacting, but I haven't seen anything beyond that.

I believe it was mentioned as being a crime in passing in the latest Livestream.

I watched it twice and didn't see them confirm it.

Like I said in a different thread, if they would take a minute to post some solid information (in print) on this forum, there would be no need for 1,000 threads, never-ending questions, and wild speculation.

RIGHT??? C'mon ZOS!

cravnbeer

TheHutz wrote: »

And I think you mean that as a non-RPer, you could care less. Couldn't care less means that it is very important to you. Sorry, former high school teacher here. *grins*

"The expression I could not care less originally meant 'it would be impossible for me to care less than I do because I do not care at all'. It was originally a British saying and came to the US in the 1950s. It is senseless to transform it into the now-common I could care less. If you could care less, that means you care at least a little. The original is quite sarcastic and the other form is clearly nonsense. The inverted form I could care less was coined in the US and is found only here, recorded in print by 1966. The question is, something caused the negative to vanish even while the original form of the expression was still very much in vogue and available for comparison - so what was it? There are other American English expressions that have a similar sarcastic inversion of an apparent sense, such as Tell me about it!, which usually means 'Don't tell me about it, because I know all about it already'. The Yiddish I should be so lucky!, in which the real sense is often 'I have no hope of being so lucky', has a similar stress pattern with the same sarcastic inversion of meaning as does I could care less."
http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/g09.html

Whisper292

MornaBaine wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

In Rivenspire there is a house with some Vampires. We could live there. they are non agro. It's way out of the city though. Maybe they could add some Vampire vendors aswell. I live in a cave in cyrrodil. I feed on pirates who also live in there. Sometimes another player i eat.

How the heck is it I don't remember where that is??? Now I gotta go find it again!

MORNA!!! It's Ravenwatch Castle!

Heishi

I'll probably get rid of vampirism on my chars that have it when this comes about. I agree it makes sense, buuut I'm kinda lazy and don't wanna stop to have a "snack" every time I feel the need to go back to town and hit the bank.

Unless we can reasonable skulk into town unnoticed. I did it in Oblivion quite a bit. I'd stay at max vamp for days on end and sneak into towns. Most of the people I talked to were shady sorts who didn't care if you were a vamp. Then if I needed to interact with regular public, I'd just feed on someone sleeping and go about my business.

Difference is, feeding before didn't do damage/draw aggro and when I wanted to go back to max vamp I could just wait and jump time ahead.

In ESO in order to get to max, I have to actually wait. It's not even like I can log on in the morning, go to work, get a cheeseburger, or whatever and come back to a max vamp since you time out in the game. I have to actively be sitting in front of the screen for a cumulative 4hrs with the current "way to quick" model.

If I have time to play that long I could maybe go from first stage to max by the end. If I have a busy week, it could take days to get to max.

Stage 1 just seems like a waste because you get little benefit for the price of being allergic to fire, which is pretty much the most commonly used element.

I do agree with it being reversed being a good solution. Even though it is the same way it was in previous TES games, the mechanics of ESO make it problematic. If stage 1 were the most powerful I'd be absolutely inclined to feed all the time, even if I had to feed once every half hour to keep it there.

The reverse makes more sense as far as being the strongest too. The only reason to have it the way TES does is if the more hungry you get the closer you get to building a frenzy and losing control. I can see getting closer to that primal nature making you strong as kind of a bell curve, where if you still weren't able to feed while in the frenzied state, you start growing weaker and weaker. While it logically makes sense that way, it doesn't make sense causing player chars to go out of control in an mmo.

MornaBaine

Whisper292 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

In Rivenspire there is a house with some Vampires. We could live there. they are non agro. It's way out of the city though. Maybe they could add some Vampire vendors aswell. I live in a cave in cyrrodil. I feed on pirates who also live in there. Sometimes another player i eat.

How the heck is it I don't remember where that is??? Now I gotta go find it again!

MORNA!!! It's Ravenwatch Castle!

Yeah, I was thrown by the use of the word "house" instead of "castle." Had they said "castle" I would have realized immediately.

Heishi

MornaBaine wrote: »

Whisper292 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

In Rivenspire there is a house with some Vampires. We could live there. they are non agro. It's way out of the city though. Maybe they could add some Vampire vendors aswell. I live in a cave in cyrrodil. I feed on pirates who also live in there. Sometimes another player i eat.

How the heck is it I don't remember where that is??? Now I gotta go find it again!

MORNA!!! It's Ravenwatch Castle!

Yeah, I was thrown by the use of the word "house" instead of "castle." Had they said "castle" I would have realized immediately.

Actually, as I recall, the place where the quests start for that are in a house/bar/inn type place. Might have been what lead to the confusing term. (Or I could be thinking of the wrong area).

As a side thought, Coldharbour should be unaffected by the justice system since.. you know.. you can recruit vampires, lamias (who hang out in the city), and other such things.

phreatophile

MornaBaine wrote: »

ALL OF THIS! ^^^ I know the other TES games did something similar where there was a shifting balance of strengths and weaknesses among the stages but...c'mon! How does that make any sense?

It was always (in TESIV and V) a tradeoff. You became more powerful offensively and weaker defensively. ZOS messed that one up pretty badly.

If all the disadvantages all scaled by level it would make more sense.

Athas24

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Yeah I never did agree with how they implemented vampire stages. The time for each stage is far too short as well.

Not to mention a vampires powers get stronger the more starved they are that this system implies is just folly and nonsensical. Should be reversed in my opinion.

But the stages require a significant increase in thier duration.That is certain. I am glad for the idea for the justice system recognizing vampirism as a crime, as it is now however, Its way too easy to have this occur and much too often. I like the consequence however.

I've always thought it was stupid to be stronger while you were in more torment from not eating... There needs to be something different that encourages eating as a way of staying stronger and maybe side quests to increase the potency of one's bloodline that involves crafting mats perhaps? could be interesting for the economy... or idk something different. I've never understood the eat so you lose all your powers concept. wah waaa.

kijima

Have you guys not played other ES games or just clicked through ESO storylines without reading them? Plenty of Vamps in other ES games and ESO were Barons and Lords, and managed to keep their vampirism well hidden, no problem whatsoever in regards to any justice system.

True, while they might not be stage 4, they are still vamps. And this is where I see the problem with the justice system and vamps.

If you are a vamp and need stage 4 for the passives, but you need to go to the bank, or do some crafting or what have you, what the hell do you do now?

I guess we will all have to wait and see what happens.

MornaBaine

kijima wrote: »

Have you guys not played other ES games or just clicked through ESO storylines without reading them? Plenty of Vamps in other ES games and ESO were Barons and Lords, and managed to keep their vampirism well hidden, no problem whatsoever in regards to any justice system.

True, while they might not be stage 4, they are still vamps. And this is where I see the problem with the justice system and vamps.

If you are a vamp and need stage 4 for the passives, but you need to go to the bank, or do some crafting or what have you, what the hell do you do now?

I guess we will all have to wait and see what happens.

I don't think it was ever intended that people would just reach Stage 4 and then stay there. There are supposed to be pros and cons to EACH stage which will encourage you to move between them. I look at the Justice System and its penalties for Stage 4 as a step in the right direction. However I will also say that the Stage timers need to be changed to make this new type of play work. Of course if they do that it'll just take LONGER to get back to Stage 4. This is why it makes the most sense for them to probably simply swap the times of Stages 1 and 3. Say you need to take your Stage 4 PvPing vamp to town and hit the bank and maybe some vendors. So you feed once to get your vamp back to Stage 3. But now it'll be an hour and a half before you are again in Stage 4, usually long after you will have completed your tasks and be wanting to return to Cyrodil. HOWEVER if they switch the timers so that Stage 3 is now the length of time Stage 1 used to be...that's only HALF AN HOUR, which is generally plenty of time to get your bags emptied and do what you need to do and you hit Cyrodill again just going into Stage 4. Now IF you need to do some crafting or other things that will take longer than half an hour, you just feed twice instead of once and go to Stage 2 which is an hour long and now you have an hour and a half to get what you need done.

This means you'll still have to keep an eye on your Stage and make sure you don't slip into Stage 4 but that presents some fun challenge without being ridiculous.