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Guild summit, cool. How about one for solo?
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Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NO, they dont care about anything other than the 20 'Special Snowflake' guilds
“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy11 -
Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Just asking. When will we have a chance to give input at the same level?
Why do you need that? People are posting their "solo" feedback on the forums all the time.3 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Hey now, a lot of good stuff did go on at that meeting. All in all it was a good deal from what I've read.
The thing is, mmo doesn't mean group only, and I've read more Posts asking about solo aspects than group lately. Probably because of all the group orientated content just released. I'd just like to know what, if any, is planned for the solo players as say in upcoming events, as they did for guilds a few months ago.2 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Just asking. When will we have a chance to give input at the same level?
Why do you need that? People are posting their "solo" feedback on the forums all the time.
Just like guilds did before also.
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G0ku✭✭✭✭Guilds were asking people in forums for their questions and suggestions and took these with them to the guild summit. And guilds are also solo people, just a little bit more of them, I don´t get your point.- First AD EU Group to finish DSA VET -
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Bloodfang✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »NadiusMaximus wrote: »Just asking. When will we have a chance to give input at the same level?
Why do you need that? People are posting their "solo" feedback on the forums all the time.
Just like guilds did before also.
I saw perhaps a few guild feedbacks in the entire lifespan of this forum..
However it's much easier to organize Guild summit than Solo summit. It's kinda dumb sending requests to random players till you find that 100 that are able to come to ZOS HQ. Also I've never heard of any famous ESO player anyway.
It's much better letting guilds know they can come, so they can organize themselves who is able to come.
However for us "Solo" players, they should be answering our "Ask us anything" questions more often.Edited by Bloodfang on December 5, 2014 9:33AM3 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The point with inviting guilds is that they are backed by more than one player, they have many people who give input to their representative and they participate in the content that gives the game longevity such as PvP, hardmodes and Trials. The reason solo players sometimes feel shafted is simple: any company could never push out solo content in a reasonable time compared to how quickly it can be completed. They will work on the content for 2 weeks and players will complete it in 30 minutes. Also by design solo content cannot be too difficult, because it needs to be completed by such a large part of the player base - which further decreases the average time that players spend on it.
There you go, I just explained why solo-only players cannot be satisfied in an MMO
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NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭I see your guys point, it would be pointless. Since the player base is such a wide spectrum of play style, the company should only listen to the people that can shout the loudest with the perceived loudest voice. Once again the independent majority is shut out by the politics of the minority in power.7
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I've never heard of any famous guilds either.However it's much easier to organize Guild summit than Solo summit. It's kinda dumb sending requests to random players till you find that 100 that are able to come to ZOS HQ. Also I've never heard of any famous ESO player anyway.
What does fame have to do with providing feedback on a game?
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pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »I see your guys point, it would be pointless. Since the player base is such a wide spectrum of play style, the company should only listen to the people that can shout the loudest with the perceived loudest voice. Once again the independent majority is shut out by the politics of the minority in power.
No, they should listen to the ones who they can possibly provide content for that will make them stay a long time. I personally do not believe that solo-exclusive players will be around for a long time, because it is completely inevitable that you run out of content to do. Unless you like sitting around in towns, or rerolling and doing the same content again, there is no way they can keep releasing new content at the pace you will complete it.
That can't be very difficult to understand right? Imagine if Craglorn was solo, how long would it take to complete it? 4 hours maybe? And that's pretty much all the new content that has been introduced to the game since launch, and they were working on that pre-launch even..
The game needs content that is very difficult and takes time to complete, so that they have enough time to make new.. and it needs PvP because PvP can sustain itself for a long time since it's essentially "player made" content. All of these make guilds very, very important for ZOS.
I've been a GM since launch, I've seen all the kinds of players - 90% of those who mainly play it as a solo RPG does the content up to Cadwell's Gold, then stay subbed ~1 month maybe doing a little group content - but if they don't get sucked in to it or play with their guildies they will leave and not log in again. Maybe they will be back at some point, who knows. But I have 100s of inactive members that have followed this pattern. On the contrary, most of those who are mainly interested in group play, Trials or PvP.. they are still here (of course a lot have been lost due to bugs and game issues, but yeah). Because... what I said.
I do my best to convert the soloists to groupists nowadays, because otherwise I know that they will leave the game and not come back once they run out of things to do.5 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imagine if Craglorn was solo, how long would it take to complete it? 4 hours maybe? And that's pretty much all the new content that has been introduced to the game since launch, and they were working on that pre-launch even..
As I recall from the forums, groups aren't interested in Craglorn anyway. People certainly complain constantly about their inability to find a group to do the Craglorn content.0 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Yup. Your Right. Nobody would play single player ElderScroll game longer than a month tops. Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, dagger fall all failed because of the lack of pvp and pure group content. If only we could go back and tell them, oh woe is me.9
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pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imagine if Craglorn was solo, how long would it take to complete it? 4 hours maybe? And that's pretty much all the new content that has been introduced to the game since launch, and they were working on that pre-launch even..
As I recall from the forums, groups aren't interested in Craglorn anyway. People certainly complain constantly about their inability to find a group to do the Craglorn content.
Craglorn is not the quests, it's the Trials and DSA that keep people going. The trouble people are having is finding groups for quests, both because they are badly designed and because they are faceroll-easy which means people don't wanna do them .. because it's boring.NadiusMaximus wrote: »Yup. Your Right. Nobody would play single player ElderScroll game longer than a month tops. Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, dagger fall all failed because of the lack of pvp and pure group content. If only we could go back and tell them, oh woe is me.
Yes, you are right. I did say ESO was a single player TES game. Yep. I definitely did. ESO is a MMO, not a single player TES game. The SP games had mods, had years of only content development, a living world, better AI .. etc. Basically they had a lot of things that cannot exist in an MMO.
I understand that you simply don't get how things work. I know, I love the single player TES games and have spent hours in them.. but I also understand why the world in ESO can't react to my actions in the same way, why the AI can't close up shop at nights to go to sleep .. I understand why I can't get awesome swords that have 1 billion damage or craft spells that make me fly 100m up in the air, or mod the world with prettier textures, make myself a vampire lord or whatever you prefer.
SP games longevity is in good AI and a changing world with truly immersive story. MMO games longevity is in challenge, dyes, titles, cool stuff .. the story is more of a byproduct. You might have saved King Casimirs life, but so did every single person in Tamriel.1 -
Leijona✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Yup. Your Right. Nobody would play single player ElderScroll game longer than a month tops. Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, dagger fall all failed because of the lack of pvp and pure group content. If only we could go back and tell them, oh woe is me.
But this is not TES VI. Of course, single players would play TES VI for months.
What exactly would you tell them that you think, non of the attendees of the Guild Summit told them?1 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Just asking. When will we have a chance to give input at the same level?
Um, how would they do that, i mean there are thousands of us, I'm not in any guilds, but I realise it would be a logistical nightmare.
In fact the only way they could do that is read these forums (which the mods at least do) or monitor the feedback forms (which i'm sure they do on some level).People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule2 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Craglorn is not the quests, it's the Trials and DSA that keep people going. The trouble people are having is finding groups for quests, both because they are badly designed and because they are faceroll-easy which means people don't wanna do them .. because it's boring.
Exactly. That's one of my thoughts. It should be more about the quests. Now, the only reason people log in is to run the same trials over and over . If they had a hand full of well written quests that made sense to do daily for both solo and groups, a lot more people would log in everyday.
My last post was just pure snark, but I really am agreeing with the stuff your saying. Don't get me wrong, I get it. I like all the content and want more of it, but I see more and more content exclusively for groups and I'd like to see some for the single players. I saw that one of the upcoming areas will be like that but it's hard telling when it's going to be released.
Peace out, back to work
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I understand that you simply don't get how things work.
That's just according to your interpretation of things, based on your own experience. My experience tells me that an awful lot of solo players are actually a lot more committed to a MMO than the regular guilds or groups of friends that move en-masse from one game to another. I certainly see no evidence here (or elsewhere) of PvPers sticking around longer than anyone else.
I've played EQ, EQ2, WoW and LoTRO, to give but a few examples, regularly since launch and still do so, and have played all of them virtually solo and all but early EQ unguilded. I have played TESO since launch on the same basis, and know that it will be my main MMO home for years to come. You simply don't have to be a regular grouper or in a guild in order to enjoy playing a MMO over the long term, and to suggest otherwise, not least in the terms you use, is very patronising to those who have a different understanding of how things work than you do.Edited by Tandor on December 5, 2014 11:46AM5 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »I see your guys point, it would be pointless. Since the player base is such a wide spectrum of play style, the company should only listen to the people that can shout the loudest with the perceived loudest voice. Once again the independent majority is shut out by the politics of the minority in power.
No, they should listen to the ones who they can possibly provide content for that will make them stay a long time. I personally do not believe that solo-exclusive players will be around for a long time, because it is completely inevitable that you run out of content to do. Unless you like sitting around in towns, or rerolling and doing the same content again, there is no way they can keep releasing new content at the pace you will complete it.
That can't be very difficult to understand right? Imagine if Craglorn was solo, how long would it take to complete it? 4 hours maybe? And that's pretty much all the new content that has been introduced to the game since launch, and they were working on that pre-launch even..
The game needs content that is very difficult and takes time to complete, so that they have enough time to make new.. and it needs PvP because PvP can sustain itself for a long time since it's essentially "player made" content. All of these make guilds very, very important for ZOS.
I've been a GM since launch, I've seen all the kinds of players - 90% of those who mainly play it as a solo RPG does the content up to Cadwell's Gold, then stay subbed ~1 month maybe doing a little group content - but if they don't get sucked in to it or play with their guildies they will leave and not log in again. Maybe they will be back at some point, who knows. But I have 100s of inactive members that have followed this pattern. On the contrary, most of those who are mainly interested in group play, Trials or PvP.. they are still here (of course a lot have been lost due to bugs and game issues, but yeah). Because... what I said.
I do my best to convert the soloists to groupists nowadays, because otherwise I know that they will leave the game and not come back once they run out of things to do.
Being in a guild does not mean you will stay longer. Especially in ESO. I would speculate that many of guildies in ESO are in a guild for the lone purpose of trading and have little or no interest in their guild outside of that. So, if this is true, how can a guild representative be any better than solo players' representative?
After all, guilds in MMO world are often a group of players that try their hardest to achieve some sort of advantage over other players so they can be top. Especially PVP guilds. Why would you want to listen to them?4 -
Leijona✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Craglorn is not the quests, it's the Trials and DSA that keep people going. The trouble people are having is finding groups for quests, both because they are badly designed and because they are faceroll-easy which means people don't wanna do them .. because it's boring.
Exactly. That's one of my thoughts. It should be more about the quests. Now, the only reason people log in is to run the same trials over and over . If they had a hand full of well written quests that made sense to do daily for both solo and groups, a lot more people would log in everyday.
There is not a single quest that could be interesting enough for people to do it over and over and over again, without something really interesting to get from it. The average player doesn't care for the story, after repeating it for the umpteenth time. So, "more" interesting quests wouldn't help here. If there was a more interesting incentive to do them, they could be almost boring to death, but most players would still do them. And then you would have a grind, that many players don't want to have anymore.2 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Then you lack imagination because I can come up with three off the top of my head that most people would love to do daily, and they would be different every time. They would almost require no extra writing either, just, well. ... Have a solo submit and I'll tell you.0
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pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to agree with that, maybe it's just me but I actually don't enjoy the quests in ESO. Mainly because of the reasons stated before, they are quite dull and don't have any meaningful impact. Add to that there is always a bunch of other players running around clearly helping the NPCs with the same thing I am.. it just isn't immersive and thus uninteresting.
Fair enough, if they could actually create content that would be fun and repeatable for solo players.. by all means, that should be done. It is simply my view that it doesn't work that way, or they'd have done it already.
Anyway, they wouldn't host a solo summit because of the fact that it would in essence be communicating with individuals rather than communicating with groups (guilds) and the latter is more beneficial for them.0 -
Leijona✭✭✭✭✭I have to agree with that, maybe it's just me but I actually don't enjoy the quests in ESO. Mainly because of the reasons stated before, they are quite dull and don't have any meaningful impact. Add to that there is always a bunch of other players running around clearly helping the NPCs with the same thing I am.. it just isn't immersive and thus uninteresting.
Isn't your "problem" then quests in general? Or could you tell me the MMO, where you don't had that feeling?
And of course I'm not talking about quests in a single player game, as they are not comparable.Edited by Leijona on December 5, 2014 1:27PM0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In that case I want a crafter summit and a dolmen farmer summit.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to agree with that, maybe it's just me but I actually don't enjoy the quests in ESO. Mainly because of the reasons stated before, they are quite dull and don't have any meaningful impact. Add to that there is always a bunch of other players running around clearly helping the NPCs with the same thing I am.. it just isn't immersive and thus uninteresting.
Isn't your "problem" then quests in general? Or could you tell me the MMO, where you don't had that feeling?
And of course I'm not talking about quests in a single player game, as they are not comparable.
Yes, exactly.. not ESO specific.timidobserver wrote: »In that case I want a crafter summit and a dolmen farmer summit.
I'd sign up for that dolmen farmer summit. I had a lot of hours to think...Edited by pppontus on December 5, 2014 2:07PM0 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »Just asking. When will we have a chance to give input at the same level?
When you play a solo game?
Which this is not...
Edited by TehMagnus on December 5, 2014 2:10PM3 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tbh, solo concerns could be discussed during guild summits. Solo != guildless. Content diversity should (imo) be a concern for all players.1 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »I like all the content and want more of it, but I see more and more content exclusively for groups and I'd like to see some for the single players.
There's just no pleasing some people it would seem. Solo players received the crafting certification and crafting writ quests in 1.5. Now contrast that with those of us who spend our time in Cyrodiil. We have not received anything new since the game launched and we're not getting anything new in 1.6, either.
Now please stop complaining and go back to spamming zone chat while you LFG in order to complete trials or DSA or Craglorn or the Undaunted pledges or
whatever other group content you are forced to play because ZOS only cares about group players.4 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LonePirate wrote: »NadiusMaximus wrote: »I like all the content and want more of it, but I see more and more content exclusively for groups and I'd like to see some for the single players.
There's just no pleasing some people it would seem. Solo players received the crafting certification and crafting writ quests in 1.5. Now contrast that with those of us who spend our time in Cyrodiil. We have not received anything new since the game launched and we're not getting anything new in 1.6, either.
Now please stop complaining and go back to spamming zone chat while you LFG in order to complete trials or DSA or Craglorn or the Undaunted pledges or
whatever other group content you are forced to play because ZOS only cares about group players.
UM, Most of the class balancing has been to please PVP, and there have been numerous changes to PVP, admittedly PVP changes have included eliminating Forward camps (although it was asked for by PVPers).
Now the writs are a mixed bag, some of us hat them, some of us like them (don't think I've seen anyone say they love them (detest yesy, love No)).
Not that I'm complaining, I'm actually quite happy with the way things are going, but I thought I should point out that PVP hasn't been ignored. People may or may not be annoyed by some of the PVP changes, but they haven't been ignoredPeople believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule3