Lore(?)/Story question.

TGiordano92

Trying to make sense of the story in eso, if it does make sense for that matter.

Is every player considered the vestige? Does the prophet interact with each of us individually? Or are we supposed to have a point of view where we just think that we are the only vestige fighting through the world?(Which obviously does not make sense).

Is there like something I am missing that I have not read or whatever that makes sense of it that does not break the immersion of the game? Or am I just supposed to have a mindset that thinks that I am the only hero of tamriel and the other online players in the world are just random civilians, even though they play through the same story as I do?

Kind of confusing to put my thoughts exactly into words.

Thank you!

Bloodfang

To be honest I never thought much about it xD

But to answer your question - you probably need to have the mindset that you are the only hero yes.

It's like a singleplayer story in an MMO world.

Gyudan

I am the one and only Vestige. I saved Tamriel from the Planemeld.

You and the other hundreds of thousands are cheats trying to steal my glory. Shame on you!

[Apply to yourself]

TGiordano92

Despair9 wrote: »

To be honest I never thought much about it xD

But to answer your question - you probably need to have the mindset that you are the only hero yes.

It's like a singleplayer story in an MMO world.

Lol, kind of lame, but thanks for response!

TGiordano92

Gyudan wrote: »

I am the one and only Vestige. I saved Tamriel from the Planemeld.

You and the other hundreds of thousands are cheats trying to steal my glory. Shame on you!

[Apply to yourself]

haha!

dodgehopper_ESO

Each of us play from the perspective of the Hero that stops the planemeld and returns all these vestiges their souls. So in that sense, from each of our own perspective our character saved the world from the planemeld and returned vestige souls. There are other vestiges out there, if you recall in the storyline, many of us were breaking out of jail. We just happen to not be the only ones that escaped. Cadwell in particular is a very notable vestige.

Rosveen

That's why the Chosen One storylines are lame.

You're the hero, the one and only. Others are random soul shriven who escaped from Coldharbor with you at the beginning of the game (as you can remember, it was quite crowded in there).

Carnagan

The answer is, yes, every player is the Vestige but only in their timeline. Everyone else they are playing with is NOT the Vestige. Except that they are the Vestige and you and everyone else isn't.

This isn't a "oh, it's an MMO" answer either. It actually has a lore reason.

The game takes place in a Dragon Break. It hasn't been stated outright, but there's no getting around it.

Major events that become blurred and lost to history that comes after? Check.

Event of magnitude big enough to disrupt Akatosh's control on things? Double Check.

Time is also pretty fluid, as time travel actually occurs in a few scattered quests and in some cases allow you to actually change the present.

The concept of a Dragon Break was invented to explain how all of the potential endings of the game Daggerfall had actually happened and were all canon. It was decided that the reactivation of the Numidium (the Dwemer "Brass God" that Tiber Septim used to complete his conquest of Tamriel) was such a pivotal and world shaking event that time shattered. People in the Illiac Bay lost about a week of time and found themselves in a vastly different land with little understanding as to how it had come to be that way.

You can read the reports of people who lived through the warp here.

The Soulburst, the event which leads to the creation of the Vestige, literally starts with insulting Akatosh so bad that he tosses up his hands and says "screw this". You could argue that this should be fixed when Molag Bal is stopped, but so many other vast powers have gotten into Tamriel in that time, like the Constellations, that it is unlikely that things can be put right for a long while.

When this Dragon Break does end, it's going to take ALL of the different timelines and smash them together. The events of the Warp in the West took place with a number of events occurring around a single main individual leading up to a week of chaos to put the timeline right. The events of ESO affect all of Tamriel and start four years before someone capable of fixing things even appears.

Sorting out a coherent timeline from the events of ESO, in world, would be impossible if the events of the Warp in the West are any indication. This is why the scholars of the Third Era look at the Interregnum and simply them as chaotic "Nights of Venom and Blood".

TL;DR - Every player is the only Vestige in their game and Nirn is in for one hell of a temporal headache when this is all said and done. But the series has overtly done this before, LONG before ESO was even a glimmer of an idea. It's isn't just an MMO thing.

MornaBaine

It seems to be the curse of many MMOs that ALL of us are somehow "the ONE." Drives me a little bonkers.

BBSooner

As the others have said, long story short os that your character is the one and only vestige and everybody else is just a random adventurer/merchant/mercenary that happens to cross paths with you.

However, as @Carnagan‌ explained it falls within a lore mechanic that has been employed since TES II: Daggerfall. The dragon break makes us all both the vestige and not the vestige at the same time - similar to how (thanks to a dragon break) all 10 (?) Endings of Daggerfall are simultaneously considered canon.

Stroggnonimus

You technically are the only vestige, but at the same time there are a lot of them but they live in different timelines. Something like multi universe theory mixed with relativity of time if you look from real life perspective. Carnagan above very well explained the lore point of view. Or you can just say "screw this" and think all those people around are just trying to steal your fame.

Pendrillion

I'd even wager, we all are one persons timeline that somehow shattered. Its a bit hard to understand, but how we manifest in the Arena does not count. Wether you feel like you are an Argonian, Orc or Altmer is kind of irrelevant. It might also be that your chosesn body, (you actually choose it) might be a simulacra for your mind. Since your original Body got disposed by Mannimarco. It's a bit a stretch in my opinion, because I cannot bring a mind without soul stuff on an equal level... but still... We are probably in one way just a facet or splinter of a self that tries to put himself/herself/itself together. And the world around it. Crazy enough we might even be a splinter of Akatosh.

AlexDougherty

MornaBaine wrote: »

It seems to be the curse of many MMOs that ALL of us are somehow "the ONE." Drives me a little bonkers.

Yeah, you just have to balance two irreconcilable factors.

First you are the chosen hero, the only chosen hero, and all the others are just people trying to save the world (but obviously you actually save it.

Second the other players are playing exactly the same story as you (not counting class stories in some MMOs (but they have the same issue)). And nobody is really that special (or everyone is, you decide).

The only way I can do this is to Compartmentalise everything, when I'm doing the main story (or mages/fighters guild story), nobody else exists (no offence), when I'm doing everything else then the main story doesn't exist.

But hey everyone has their own method.

Zorrashi

I usually think of myself as the only vestige. The other people are just.....other people.

But if you want to make it complicated, here is my theory that I came up with for fun:

Each vestige is on their own time line, with each player's choices essentially either diverging them or melding them with others. The reason certain players just 'poof' into your world at random (instancing) is because your timeline's choices are practically the same as that other vestige's timeline choices and thus, nirn identifies them as one of the same because of the similarities and therefore melds the space associated with the similar time(s) which are essentially one of the same. How is this possible you may ask? How is it nirn is somehow existing as a singular plane while at the same time having hundreds of hundreds of various differentiating time and space continuums? Because nirn's space-time fabric was severely damaged by Molag Bal's planemeld and thus nirn is basically trying to patch itself together in order to maintain its existence as well trying to differentiate the various possibilities/choices/action of the vestige who is essentially the X-factor in nirn's various fates because different choices of the vestige (i.e killing that traitor or not killing that traitor) simply would no logically exist as the same time, and thus may rip asunder nirn's aspects even further to a detrimental state.

Basically nirn is trying to hold out until all but one vestige dies that way things can finally get back to normal, and the rest of the various timelines are denied or something (do timelines stop? It could be nirn may actually be permanently damaged because of Molag Bal).

TGiordano92

Awesome comments everyone. So technically it kind of does make sense if I am understanding all this right? Do to the fact that we are all in s different timeline but end up in the same time somehow? Really confusing!

TGiordano92

If anyone else has anymore insight on this I would love to hear it. Lore reasons are the most interesting to me, because thats how I would view it.

Zorrashi

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Awesome comments everyone. So technically it kind of does make sense if I am understanding all this right? Do to the fact that we are all in s different timeline but end up in the same time somehow? Really confusing!

I think it is important to note that this may not just be about a dragon break. In dragon breaks, the character of X at Y general area of time has the possibility to have their timeline 'branch out' at various intervals of their play through to eventually reach a singular end of some design.

But in ESO, not only are there various 'vestige' characters that can alternate in their branched timeline(s), but they can essentially run co-currently. Not only that, but even if the separate vestiges make the same choices in a similar space, there is no guarantee they made them at the same time (i.e one person made the choice at time A, another that that exact same choice at time C).

In this sense, it is more than a singular timeline 'breaking' at certain points (unless you want to say the other playthroughs of the single player games are canon too, meaning there is more than one timeline that branches out. But your main characters don't meet one another.). But ESO is of many timelines, breaking, melding, breaking again and being only partially reattached at another date/space. All of this in a nearly endless bundle of being on the same plane (Nirn) while essentially creating several mixed up or separate dimensions on that same plane that are constantly stitched or ripped asunder to various degrees and intervals.

I think of it as both a lore mentioned Dragon Break and a recently conceptualized "Dragon Meld".

TGiordano92

Zorrashi wrote: »

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Awesome comments everyone. So technically it kind of does make sense if I am understanding all this right? Do to the fact that we are all in s different timeline but end up in the same time somehow? Really confusing!

I think it is important to note that this may not just be about a dragon break. In dragon breaks, the character of X at Y general area of time has the possibility to have their timeline 'branch out' at various intervals of their play through to eventually reach a singular end of some design.

But in ESO, not only are there various 'vestige' characters that can alternate in their branched timeline(s), but they can essentially run co-currently. Not only that, but even if the separate vestiges make the same choices in a similar space, there is no guarantee they made them at the same time (i.e one person made the choice at time A, another that that exact same choice at time C).

In this sense, it is more than a singular timeline 'breaking' at certain points (unless you want to say the other playthroughs of the single player games are canon too, meaning there is more than one timeline that branches out. But your main characters don't meet one another.). But ESO is of many timelines, breaking, melding, breaking again and being only partially reattached at another date/space. All of this in a nearly endless bundle of being on the same plane (Nirn) while essentially creating several mixed up or separate dimensions on that same plane that are constantly stitched or ripped asunder to various degrees and intervals.

I think of it as both a lore mentioned Dragon Break and a recently conceptualized "Dragon Meld".

Very interesting, thanks for the insight. I find the lore very interesting and it would be cool if a dev could chime in on this with their input as well. Just trying to make sense of all of it, seems not many people care about why there are so many vestiges or "heroes" but it matters to me if theres an explanation to it.

TGiordano92

Anyone else?

TGiordano92

Any other lore junkies out there?

Koensol

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Any other lore junkies out there?

Like the others here you can mske of it what you want. Make your own headcanon. But don't use single player logic in an mmo. The way it "is", is that the player is THE vestige. It's a solo instanced storyline.

P.s. Oh ffs guys stop suggesting a dragon break for every single lore inconsistency or question that involves what has happened in X single player TES game. Some things are not meant to be set in stone.

BBSooner

Koensol wrote: »

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Any other lore junkies out there?

Like the others here you can mske of it what you want. Make your own headcanon. But don't use single player logic in an mmo. The way it "is", is that the player is THE vestige. It's a solo instanced storyline.

P.s. Oh ffs guys stop suggesting a dragon break for every single lore inconsistency or question that involves what has happened in X single player TES game. Some things are not meant to be set in stone.

This is the first time I've seen a dragon break be given as a lore answer with ESO.

AlexDougherty

BBSooner wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Any other lore junkies out there?

Like the others here you can mske of it what you want. Make your own headcanon. But don't use single player logic in an mmo. The way it "is", is that the player is THE vestige. It's a solo instanced storyline.

P.s. Oh ffs guys stop suggesting a dragon break for every single lore inconsistency or question that involves what has happened in X single player TES game. Some things are not meant to be set in stone.

This is the first time I've seen a dragon break be given as a lore answer with ESO.

There have been a few others, but it's a cop out usually, the only one I can think of as a genuine answers is how Mannimarco is a Lich and a God at the same time.

There is a dragonbreak within this game, but it's only for one dungeon not the whole story. (you exit before you enter, and confuse the person who gave you the quest (as he doesn't know you yet)).

BBSooner

AlexDougherty wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Any other lore junkies out there?

Like the others here you can mske of it what you want. Make your own headcanon. But don't use single player logic in an mmo. The way it "is", is that the player is THE vestige. It's a solo instanced storyline.

P.s. Oh ffs guys stop suggesting a dragon break for every single lore inconsistency or question that involves what has happened in X single player TES game. Some things are not meant to be set in stone.

This is the first time I've seen a dragon break be given as a lore answer with ESO.

There have been a few others, but it's a cop out usually, the only one I can think of as a genuine answers is how Mannimarco is a Lich and a God at the same time.

I always thought that was a confirmed bit of lore, since it is a direct result of Bethesda's dragon break explanation.

And how did I miss that quest, that sounds awesome, I need to pay more attention - do you remember the faction or zone?

AlexDougherty

BBSooner wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Any other lore junkies out there?

Like the others here you can mske of it what you want. Make your own headcanon. But don't use single player logic in an mmo. The way it "is", is that the player is THE vestige. It's a solo instanced storyline.

P.s. Oh ffs guys stop suggesting a dragon break for every single lore inconsistency or question that involves what has happened in X single player TES game. Some things are not meant to be set in stone.

This is the first time I've seen a dragon break be given as a lore answer with ESO.

There have been a few others, but it's a cop out usually, the only one I can think of as a genuine answers is how Mannimarco is a Lich and a God at the same time.

I always thought that was a confirmed bit of lore, since it is a direct result of Bethesda's dragon break explanation.

And how did I miss that quest, that sounds awesome, I need to pay more attention - do you remember the faction or zone?

I think it might have been in the EP faction, as the boss at the end is a hag and her friends, which would put it in either Eastmarch or the Rift, but I can't be certain. (because I'm currently levveling up a nightblade in EP and haven't come across it yet).

What I do remember is I entered a dungeon and got asked by some guy to help him recover a rare book called "Breaking the Dragon". I fought my way through this dungeon, came across a trio of Hags performing a ritual and defeated them quite easily. Picked up the book (I think their may have be a slight glow across the room), and went for the exit. Where I found the guy who sent me in, only he has no idea who I am, but he was extremely grateful that I had his book, which he was worried about being misused somehow.

BBSooner

AlexDougherty wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Any other lore junkies out there?

Like the others here you can mske of it what you want. Make your own headcanon. But don't use single player logic in an mmo. The way it "is", is that the player is THE vestige. It's a solo instanced storyline.

P.s. Oh ffs guys stop suggesting a dragon break for every single lore inconsistency or question that involves what has happened in X single player TES game. Some things are not meant to be set in stone.

This is the first time I've seen a dragon break be given as a lore answer with ESO.

There have been a few others, but it's a cop out usually, the only one I can think of as a genuine answers is how Mannimarco is a Lich and a God at the same time.

I always thought that was a confirmed bit of lore, since it is a direct result of Bethesda's dragon break explanation.

And how did I miss that quest, that sounds awesome, I need to pay more attention - do you remember the faction or zone?

I think it might have been in the EP faction, as the boss at the end is a hag and her friends, which would put it in either Eastmarch or the Rift, but I can't be certain. (because I'm currently levveling up a nightblade in EP and haven't come across it yet).

What I do remember is I entered a dungeon and got asked by some guy to help him recover a rare book called "Breaking the Dragon". I fought my way through this dungeon, came across a trio of Hags performing a ritual and defeated them quite easily. Picked up the book (I think their may have be a slight glow across the room), and went for the exit. Where I found the guy who sent me in, only he has no idea who I am, but he was extremely grateful that I had his book, which he was worried about being misused somehow.

Hah, that's too awesome, I appreciate the synopsis!

TGiordano92

Thanks for the replies guys, I was just hoping there was an actual reason for thousands of vestiges playing through the same story running around together. Kind of breaks immersion if you think about it hard, (like I am). The dragon break stuff seems to be able to make sense of it all, but as others said a dev or in eso it is not stated that there was one.

Would be cool for a dev to comment on this whos in tune with the lore/story etc.

@ZOS_AmeliaR‌ @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ any chance relaying? =D

TGiordano92

AlexDougherty wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

TGiordano92 wrote: »

Any other lore junkies out there?

Like the others here you can mske of it what you want. Make your own headcanon. But don't use single player logic in an mmo. The way it "is", is that the player is THE vestige. It's a solo instanced storyline.

P.s. Oh ffs guys stop suggesting a dragon break for every single lore inconsistency or question that involves what has happened in X single player TES game. Some things are not meant to be set in stone.

This is the first time I've seen a dragon break be given as a lore answer with ESO.

There have been a few others, but it's a cop out usually, the only one I can think of as a genuine answers is how Mannimarco is a Lich and a God at the same time.

There is a dragonbreak within this game, but it's only for one dungeon not the whole story. (you exit before you enter, and confuse the person who gave you the quest (as he doesn't know you yet)).

very interesting, thanks for reply

TGiordano92

continued here more frequently if anyone else cares: http://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2oy4am/storylore_question_eso/

still would like dev post:]

Pendrillion

I feel like I have to add something. It seems that you try to aim for one explicit certainty. But thats not what these games, and all ES games have been so far. They are ambiguous and live 100% from what you experience ingame. There are some truths of course. But a good deal of what happens in the game is subjective experience. You have some historical references about past times and eras. But they are also ambiguous, mainly because you never know who or what organisation had interests in writing up the stuff about the past.

We have the idea now a days that there is a recorded objective truth about History in our world. But thats an Illusion. It all get filtered trough human perception and self interests of the people living in that one distinct timeframe.

And thats how it is as well in ES games. And thats how you need to treat it. Also thats how suspension of disbelief works basically.

TGiordano92

Pendrillion wrote: »

I feel like I have to add something. It seems that you try to aim for one explicit certainty. But thats not what these games, and all ES games have been so far. They are ambiguous and live 100% from what you experience ingame. There are some truths of course. But a good deal of what happens in the game is subjective experience. You have some historical references about past times and eras. But they are also ambiguous, mainly because you never know who or what organisation had interests in writing up the stuff about the past.

We have the idea now a days that there is a recorded objective truth about History in our world. But thats an Illusion. It all get filtered trough human perception and self interests of the people living in that one distinct timeframe.

And thats how it is as well in ES games. And thats how you need to treat it. Also thats how suspension of disbelief works basically.

Thanks for reply!