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Should Zenimax removes low population bonus?

Oswolf
Oswolf
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This bonus is disguting many core players. In a tri faction war, the scores should be balanced naturally since the dominant alliance will be targetted by the other two factions.
Edited by Oswolf on November 27, 2014 3:40AM
b]DA[/b Daggerfall Army
DC EU

Should Zenimax removes low population bonus? 63 votes

Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
85%
Erock25OrangeTheCatKainDarkmg_78b16_ESObertenburnyb16_ESOTurelusIzanagi.Xiiib16_ESOMaulkinrsciwLava_Croftseneferab16_ESOBrangwenWolfingHourDeanTheCatSoulScreamvaagventje17eb17_ESOKaramis_Vimardon Berbecca Keroncamellia 54 votes
No it works as intended
14%
kevlarto_ESONicko_LpsDarkness033ChufuRuncajszPsilentKwasFivefivesixDezIsDead 9 votes
  • Cody
    Cody
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    how about a " no, just change it" or something like that?

    it has good intentions: it just gets abused and tends to do the opposite of what its supposed to do
  • suycyco
    suycyco
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    I'm thinking the same, they should fix it (for real) and adjust it to be more fair, but they don't need to remove it entirely.
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Slowly, everybody from EU-TB that is not AD is taking to the forums to complain about the ridiculous low population bonus.
    Xuth.
  • DezIsDead
    DezIsDead
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    No it works as intended
    I also think it's a useful game mechanic that simply needs to be adjusted. Should have been a third option.
    Dez Is Dead vr16 AD Sorc
    Rez Dez vr16 DC sorc
    Aimer Cantentius VR16 DC NB AKA Needs Vigor
    Vanreimus Comeback DC DK
    Ihealedurmum VR8 AD temp
    Unonti VR crafting sloot
    Zoschasedawaymyfweinds EP Temp
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    Slowly, everybody from EU-TB that is not AD is taking to the forums to complain about the ridiculous low population bonus.

    Incorrect. AD complain about it too, stop being factionist ;)

    That being said there is a case for having a low pop booster but I think it should affect the + points of the other factions rather than the + points of the low pop faction. e.g. a lead is built more slowly rather than the low pop faction getting boosted.
    Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on November 27, 2014 10:07AM
    NA ~ Izanerys (NB/Templar/Sorc): Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
    EU ~ Izanagi (NB/Sorc): Zerg Squad / Banana Squad
  • KBKB
    KBKB
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Remove it regardless of what they tell us it isnt working as intended and had killed my will to pvp
    Stare into the void and the void stares back

    What would Magnum PI do?

    1.1k CP - All the classes and variants.
  • Kwas
    Kwas
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    No it works as intended
    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    Slowly, everybody from EU-TB that is not AD is taking to the forums to complain about the ridiculous low population bonus.

    I blame purple alliance :P
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    I voted yes to removal and will explain below why.

    While I understand an underdog who has fewer players wants to stay competitive I don't feel that this system is the best way to do that.
    In no competitive sport I know of does a team get rewarded for not turning up to as many matches as the opponents*, it's also the player choices which creates these population issues.
    We have a total of four VR campaigns, of these campaigns only one seems to be competitive on both EU and NA servers, that is Thornblade. The other campaigns always end up as one faction highly dominant and used a buff campaigns for PVE. (ESO Stats for examples of how campaigns look)
    The low populations could easily be fixed if we have less campaigns where people could spread out and thus not populate the ones where they're needed for their faction.

    Ignoring that cause we have to ask ourselves as an overall community in PVP, do we want a system which rewards lack of participation. EU Thornblade has the strongest AD force of all the campaigns, they're unified, skilled and damn devastating when they play. However as some core guilds and players are taking breaks from PVP right now they're often getting this low population bonus, one which they hardly need to win. Without the bonus this month AD would have had a hell of a big gap to reclaim this final week, instead they got the luxury of not participating (in full, I know many still did) for three quarters of the campaign and can still make an organised push the final week to win.
    Should they be able to have a chance to win, sure and on a campaign where there is almost a non-existent population this mechanic would be fantastic, however on Thornblade the mechanic has only gone towards rewarding a faction for taking almost a months break from any serious PVP.

    As an officer and raid leader for one of the larger more organised EP PVP guilds I spend almost all my time in Cyrodiil either leading raids or helping train new raid leaders and members. I don't have the luxury to run daily dungeons if I want my faction to win this campaign. Yet, after weeks of hard work, long days of raiding, pushing for scrolls and massive battles, the faction who played it casual all campaign are only 300ish points behind. This is the part that angers me, this is the part that made me cancel my sub.

    Just from the screenshots on these forums you can see that the AD should have been down maybe three thousand points, with undocumented bonuses probably around five to eight thousand. That wouldn't have been outside the realm of possibility for them to catch up with, we as the EP have done it ourselves in campaigns. It would however of required them to play, which not all of them have.

    I could rant and rave about this topic all day, I come from EVE Online a game which doesn't hold players hands if they don't fight in a war. If you don't fight in that game, you lose all your space. I don't want to play a game which handholds players for being lazy or not organised, not in a competitive environment.

    My closing advice to ZOS would be to start looking at ways to convince players to play on larger more active campaigns for their faction (fix lag, make small gang pvp objectives, work to stop trains being the win all strategy) then start closing these dead campaigns so there isn't a population issue.
    Stop using game mechanics to try and fix player mentalities, if they don't want to fight, they don't deserve to win it's that simple.

    * I know someone on here will link me a sport now. :disagree:

    Edit for some of my horrible spelling and typos.
    Edited by Turelus on November 27, 2014 11:14AM
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    :: Unofficial Forums FAQ :: MissBizz ESO Guides :: AlcastHQ Guides :: Tamriel Foundry Forums :: UESP ESO Page :: ESO Sets :: Woeler Tank Guides :: ESO Community Discord ::
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Incorrect. AD complain about it too, stop being factionist ;)
    I must start to include special symbols whenever I make a semi-joking comment. Something like "[snip]"? :wink:

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]
    Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 11, 2014 4:25PM
    Xuth.
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    I think it just needs to have its tick frequency increased, so that it is more representative of the situation.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    I think after the events on EU Thornblade this needs to be on the front page again.
    Hopefully more people vote and we see a better representation of the PVP communities feelings. If you have guilds poke the members to come and vote as well, the more people we know from the better idea we have on the overall feelings of the system.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    :: Unofficial Forums FAQ :: MissBizz ESO Guides :: AlcastHQ Guides :: Tamriel Foundry Forums :: UESP ESO Page :: ESO Sets :: Woeler Tank Guides :: ESO Community Discord ::
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Do you think it would be better for Haderus and Chillrend to be removed? might force the AD and DC players onto Azuras from there and stop people from Thorn absconding over to them for AP farming.
    NA ~ Izanerys (NB/Templar/Sorc): Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
    EU ~ Izanagi (NB/Sorc): Zerg Squad / Banana Squad
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Do you think it would be better for Haderus and Chillrend to be removed? might force the AD and DC players onto Azuras from there and stop people from Thorn absconding over to them for AP farming.
    Yes.
    The population right now is too small for this many campaigns, some of them are already once again becoming Emp Trade campaigns, most are buff campaigns.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    :: Unofficial Forums FAQ :: MissBizz ESO Guides :: AlcastHQ Guides :: Tamriel Foundry Forums :: UESP ESO Page :: ESO Sets :: Woeler Tank Guides :: ESO Community Discord ::
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Morvul
    Morvul
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    Do you think it would be better for Haderus and Chillrend to be removed?
    I actually think this idea has merrit.
  • Psilent
    Psilent
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    No it works as intended
    Stop taking keeps while that faction has a low population. Problem solved.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
    Community Ambassador
    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Psilent wrote: »
    Stop taking keeps while that faction has a low population. Problem solved.
    Which becomes "If others are not playing PVP, you shouldn't either" don't penalise those who are online and want to do PVP or work towards a win.

    Also, try and organise randoms, never going to work.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    :: Unofficial Forums FAQ :: MissBizz ESO Guides :: AlcastHQ Guides :: Tamriel Foundry Forums :: UESP ESO Page :: ESO Sets :: Woeler Tank Guides :: ESO Community Discord ::
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    I say remove it altogether. I play a 30-day campaign. Although I felt my faction rarely had more population than the others, it's something that statistically should balance out over the duration of the campaign.

    As it is, the low-pop bonus is basically like a soccer league giving bonus goals to a team with low fan attendance at the stadium, as an attempt to get those fans to buy tickets. Imagine what the other teams will think of those "bonus goals"...
  • SoulScream
    SoulScream
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    It was good intentions that didn't work. Get rid of it!
  • Nicko_Lps
    Nicko_Lps
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    No it works as intended
    My dear friend/enemy oswolf...

    You do enjoy to nightcap or morning cap with a zerg vs 5AD defending a keep but you want the punishment for this to stop... Inerrsting.

    Even without it you would have lost the campain and easyer,cause if it didnt proc purples wouldnt be against us for 4 hours next day.

    You nightcap 20vs4 ? We got the bonus face it and face the sad but true reality.. YOU PERSONALY GAVE IT TO US lol

    Thank you oswolfy :smile:
  • Lava_Croft
    Lava_Croft
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    People like @Nicko_Lps are a beacon of hope for the Aldmeri Dominion.
    Xuth.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    Cody wrote: »
    how about a " no, just change it" or something like that?

    it has good intentions: it just gets abused and tends to do the opposite of what its supposed to do

    quoted as my opinion, belief, and vote. (since it was not an option in the pole)

    best in slot: is the armor, weapon, clothing look, pet, or no pet, jewelry, race, class, skill choices, amount of DPS, and skin color best fit to you and the way you wish to play and makes you feel good and performs what YOU think it should be.

    worst in slot: what you read in zone chat, and forum comment, and forum thread, and you tube video, and live streamer advice, and class rep advice, and guild chat advice, and whisper told you to wear, and use for skill, and dress like, and use for weapon and armor.
  • Roechacca
    Roechacca
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    This poll can never be accurate because those with high pop are always gonna say to remove it . Lol at the thought of this poll ...
    Roechacca NB DC
    Jurassic Punk Sorc DC
    Stelios Rhodes Templar DC
    BEEATINGYOU Stamplar DC
    Bromkar StamDK DC
    Guild Leader KungFu DC
    Guild Officer LynchMob DC
  • Keron
    Keron
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    I have proposed months ago to change from a low pop bonus to a high pop reduction. You want to keep the low pop faction in the game? Make sure that the high pop faction cannot run away point wise.

    That would also allow to change over from the fked up "have pop disadvantage now but get your bonus when your faction's full" cr4p. The point penalty could and should be applied in real time. Also, never have pop numbers influence personal AP gain in any way.

    [Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]
    Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on December 11, 2014 6:33PM
    Unless explicitly stated otherwise, I am expressing my personal opinion in any and all my posts. If you don't like it, tough luck, but that will for sure not make me change it.
    If you think your opinion is more valid than mine, try to convince me. Be prepared that I don't fall for stupidity or illogicality. Name-calling, ad hominem, finickiness and other similar strategies will get you ignored and nothing else.
    12 Chars, 3 Factions, all classes.

  • daemonios
    daemonios
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Nicko_Lps wrote: »
    My dear friend/enemy oswolf...

    You do enjoy to nightcap or morning cap with a zerg vs 5AD defending a keep but you want the punishment for this to stop... Inerrsting.

    Even without it you would have lost the campain and easyer,cause if it didnt proc purples wouldnt be against us for 4 hours next day.

    You nightcap 20vs4 ? We got the bonus face it and face the sad but true reality.. YOU PERSONALY GAVE IT TO US lol

    Thank you oswolfy :smile:

    That is ridiculous, plain and simple. I've logged in mornings to see the map completely blue, red or yellow at times. Every faction night caps. In fact, what do you call 50+ AD pulling an all-nighter at the very last night of the campaign, spamming camps and sieging 3 keeps at the same time?

    I don't know who would have won without the low population bonus because if AD hadn't got it every faction's behavior might have changed. What I do know is that if you remove the points AD got from the bonus, the final score would show AD far behind the other factions.
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
    Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    daemonios wrote: »
    Nicko_Lps wrote: »
    My dear friend/enemy oswolf...

    You do enjoy to nightcap or morning cap with a zerg vs 5AD defending a keep but you want the punishment for this to stop... Inerrsting.

    Even without it you would have lost the campain and easyer,cause if it didnt proc purples wouldnt be against us for 4 hours next day.

    You nightcap 20vs4 ? We got the bonus face it and face the sad but true reality.. YOU PERSONALY GAVE IT TO US lol

    Thank you oswolfy :smile:

    That is ridiculous, plain and simple. I've logged in mornings to see the map completely blue, red or yellow at times. Every faction night caps. In fact, what do you call 50+ AD pulling an all-nighter at the very last night of the campaign, spamming camps and sieging 3 keeps at the same time?

    Actually it was around 28 of us went down to around 15 once we went #1st again ^^

    maybe 35 if you count the usual zone non raiders
    Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on December 4, 2014 5:14PM
    NA ~ Izanerys (NB/Templar/Sorc): Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
    EU ~ Izanagi (NB/Sorc): Zerg Squad / Banana Squad
  • Nicko_Lps
    Nicko_Lps
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    No it works as intended

    Lava_Croft wrote: »
    People like @Nicko_Lps are a beacon of hope for the Aldmeri Dominion.

    The mistake i constantly do is trying to answer you seriously...

    I guess i sould only laugh at the guy who calls himself nightblade PVP healer and i sould laugh twice with the guy that claims nightblades are the best PVP healers and not the templars..

    I do laugh actually.. But now that i posted this,other may laugh at him(you).
    Grow up kriss.

    Low pop bonus is not fair i do understand it as 50vs20 is not.

    Someone mentioned population balancing,that would be the best but the company cant shut out people from pvp...

    Save your breath... The low pop bonus made it worst for us, just think without it we wouldnt had pissed off EP and DC all day long against us.
    But as izanagi said we waited untill all of you get tired hitting us and unill you had similar numbers with us and... We made with a few people a banana map.
  • Quantine
    Quantine
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    I still think there should be a way to implement the low pop bonus in a fairer way that would be more realistic and more tied to the actual number of players online in the time the bonus is applied. But the way it is now is simply too extreme.
    EU | AD | Banana Squad Inc | Arena | The Pariah | Keepers of Cyrodiil

    Arulash, DK, rank 33
    Eledwhen Elmwoods, NB, rank 30
    Lil Aru, OP Templar healer, rank 23
    Aru on Flames, DK, rank 17

    NA | EP | Banana Squad Inc
    Aru's Sis, DK
  • DaggerfallTradeMasters
    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    Anyone else wanted to hit the Working as intended button just for fun?

    But serious perhaps give it a max because if you own the everything you get 400 points so i would give a max bonus of 100 points that why its good eunogh to stay close but you cant catch up.

    If you cant do that then remove that *** thing
  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    This is a much bigger problem for our EU brethren than on the NA side, and it seems clear thar something needs to be done. ZoS showed with the FC removal that they're not opposed to radical, unannounced action - I'd like to see them completely remove the low pop bonus for a cycle and assess the results.
    Armitas wrote: »
    This game is so broken I don't even know how people distinguish CE from negligent development.
  •  Berbecca
    Berbecca
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    Yes remove this absurd low population bonus
    However a bonus should exist to help the weaker faction stay in the game, but that bonus should help them while fighting, not while they are offline.
    Edited by Berbecca on December 12, 2014 11:33AM
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