Dwemer Brass is the exact same colour as Ayleid Gold

Morticide828

As the title mentions, upon completing my achievement for getting all the motif pages of dwemer, I was quite disappointed to discover that they've literally recycled an existing rare dye - which is easy to obtain for anyone who can press "Walk Forward".

I don't want to sound like an entitled *** - but a tiny bit more effort to not use the exact same colour would have been lovely.

I'll update with a screenshot later - downloading 12gb of patch at 500kbps.

yodased

While this may definitely seem to be the case, it probably isn't.

The thing I've found, especially with rare colors, is its not the 'hue' that changes. Its the 'opal' or 'candy' or 'pearl' that changes.

Its like car paint. You can have the same base orange color on 5 cars and have 5 completely different paint jobs depending on the light hitting it and the additives to the color.

They likely made it a pearl instead of an opal or a candy instead of a chameleon while keeping the same hue.

This will be seen most prevalently on heavy armor chest pieces in bright natural light on the highest graphics setting zoomed all the way in.

Please don't take this as a justification of what you are seeing or feeling, just a clarification of semantics. Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

OrangeTheCat

Which is why I stopped caring about obtaining dyes and LOL each time I see joe-blow-generic-wannabe character in "black" and "white" trying to show off.

It does, however, encourage creative use of color combinations.

PBpsy

I am pretty sure that it isn't the case. The difference is visible only on some parts and on some motifs and may also be influenced by your graphics settings.. There are a few of color pairs that are like that.

Morticide828

yodased wrote: »

Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

Chuckled audibly

PBpsy

There is also a difference depending on the armor type. For example red dyes on metal are very nice and noticeably different. For light armor one can chose between a large assortment of red, ranging from very washed out red to extremely washed out red.

driosketch

yodased wrote: »

While this may definitely seem to be the case, it probably isn't.

The thing I've found, especially with rare colors, is its not the 'hue' that changes. Its the 'opal' or 'candy' or 'pearl' that changes.

Its like car paint. You can have the same base orange color on 5 cars and have 5 completely different paint jobs depending on the light hitting it and the additives to the color.

They likely made it a pearl instead of an opal or a candy instead of a chameleon while keeping the same hue.

This will be seen most prevalently on heavy armor chest pieces in bright natural light on the highest graphics setting zoomed all the way in.

Please don't take this as a justification of what you are seeing or feeling, just a clarification of semantics. Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

This might be the case. For instance, I believe ransacker and superior blue are the same hue, but superior has a metallic sheen to it, yes even on light armor.

Morticide828

driosketch wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

While this may definitely seem to be the case, it probably isn't.

The thing I've found, especially with rare colors, is its not the 'hue' that changes. Its the 'opal' or 'candy' or 'pearl' that changes.

Its like car paint. You can have the same base orange color on 5 cars and have 5 completely different paint jobs depending on the light hitting it and the additives to the color.

They likely made it a pearl instead of an opal or a candy instead of a chameleon while keeping the same hue.

This will be seen most prevalently on heavy armor chest pieces in bright natural light on the highest graphics setting zoomed all the way in.

Please don't take this as a justification of what you are seeing or feeling, just a clarification of semantics. Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

This might be the case. For instance, I believe ransacker and superior blue are the same hue, but superior has a metallic sheen to it, yes even on light armor.

In this case, they both have a metallic sheen on them - as they're both rare colours.

Only 3.9gb to go, I'll screenshot so it makes sense. I swear I'm not going mad!

diabeticDemon18

Seiryu828 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

While this may definitely seem to be the case, it probably isn't.

The thing I've found, especially with rare colors, is its not the 'hue' that changes. Its the 'opal' or 'candy' or 'pearl' that changes.

Its like car paint. You can have the same base orange color on 5 cars and have 5 completely different paint jobs depending on the light hitting it and the additives to the color.

They likely made it a pearl instead of an opal or a candy instead of a chameleon while keeping the same hue.

This will be seen most prevalently on heavy armor chest pieces in bright natural light on the highest graphics setting zoomed all the way in.

Please don't take this as a justification of what you are seeing or feeling, just a clarification of semantics. Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

This might be the case. For instance, I believe ransacker and superior blue are the same hue, but superior has a metallic sheen to it, yes even on light armor.

In this case, they both have a metallic sheen on them - as they're both rare colours.

Only 3.9gb to go, I'll screenshot so it makes sense. I swear I'm not going mad!

Are you sure Ransacker Blue is rare? I remember getting it on my first character... before I was level 8... that doesn't seem very rare to me

DenverRalphy

They're not exactly the same. I've been experimenting with all the golds, yellows, browns, bronze etc.. recently.

It depends in the material, and the texture of the material. On some materials (especially leather) the difference is sometimes impossible to see. But on others its really obvious. Polished metals sometimes show extreme differences with some colors but not others, yet brushed metals have the exact opposite effect with the same colors.

Take for example Hlaalu Gold and Evermore gold... On some materials Hlaalu is a muted hue compared to Evermore (which coincides with the visual representation in the color pallet), on other materials they are nearly identical, and on different metals they are the opposite.

This leads me to believe that dyes don't just have a color/shade attribute, but also an opacity (full solid color versus various degrees of transparency) which can be influenced by the underlying texture and default color.

timidobserver

It's not the same. Turn your graphics up to as high as it goes and then you should be able to discern the difference.

driosketch

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Seiryu828 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

While this may definitely seem to be the case, it probably isn't.

The thing I've found, especially with rare colors, is its not the 'hue' that changes. Its the 'opal' or 'candy' or 'pearl' that changes.

Its like car paint. You can have the same base orange color on 5 cars and have 5 completely different paint jobs depending on the light hitting it and the additives to the color.

They likely made it a pearl instead of an opal or a candy instead of a chameleon while keeping the same hue.

This will be seen most prevalently on heavy armor chest pieces in bright natural light on the highest graphics setting zoomed all the way in.

Please don't take this as a justification of what you are seeing or feeling, just a clarification of semantics. Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

This might be the case. For instance, I believe ransacker and superior blue are the same hue, but superior has a metallic sheen to it, yes even on light armor.

In this case, they both have a metallic sheen on them - as they're both rare colours.

Only 3.9gb to go, I'll screenshot so it makes sense. I swear I'm not going mad!

Are you sure Ransacker Blue is rare? I remember getting it on my first character... before I was level 8... that doesn't seem very rare to me

@diabeticDemon18‌ , I think Seiryu828 was referring to the brass and gold in the title, not the blues.

diabeticDemon18

driosketch wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Seiryu828 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

While this may definitely seem to be the case, it probably isn't.

The thing I've found, especially with rare colors, is its not the 'hue' that changes. Its the 'opal' or 'candy' or 'pearl' that changes.

Its like car paint. You can have the same base orange color on 5 cars and have 5 completely different paint jobs depending on the light hitting it and the additives to the color.

They likely made it a pearl instead of an opal or a candy instead of a chameleon while keeping the same hue.

This will be seen most prevalently on heavy armor chest pieces in bright natural light on the highest graphics setting zoomed all the way in.

Please don't take this as a justification of what you are seeing or feeling, just a clarification of semantics. Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

This might be the case. For instance, I believe ransacker and superior blue are the same hue, but superior has a metallic sheen to it, yes even on light armor.

In this case, they both have a metallic sheen on them - as they're both rare colours.

Only 3.9gb to go, I'll screenshot so it makes sense. I swear I'm not going mad!

Are you sure Ransacker Blue is rare? I remember getting it on my first character... before I was level 8... that doesn't seem very rare to me

@diabeticDemon18‌ , I think Seiryu828 was referring to the brass and gold in the title, not the blues.

Ohhh, I thought he was referring to the guy who was talking about ransacker and superior blue, my bad!!

Morticide828

Please see my screenshots relating to this:

Ayleid Gold:


Dwarven Brass:


Now - if there's honestly a difference between them, I can't see it at all.

For arguments sake, and if anyone can show me different - I'm wearing full medium armour. Dunmer Helm & Shoes, Khajiit Shoulders, Dwemer Chest, Argonian hands & legs, and Primal belt (which doesn't colour - so doesn't count).

I can't see any difference at all, either in pearlescents as was suggested, or other sheen / shine effects. It's identical.

*EDIT*
Side by side for comparison, on my other monitor which has better colour rendering - still can't see any difference:


*Note the shadows under his feet, the slight difference is the sun moving.

Natjur

Some colour only show a different on heavy (metal)
Do you have one piece of heavy (prefer chest so you can compare better) that you can colour with the two different colours and compare.

Also do you have a shot with the sun shinny on your armor

MissBizz

PBpsy wrote: »

There is also a difference depending on the armor type. For example red dyes on metal are very nice and noticeably different. For light armor one can chose between a large assortment of red, ranging from very washed out red to extremely washed out red.

And this is why I was so exited to start a tank with heavy armor. My level 12 heavy armor looks just about as good as my vr4 light lol

Morticide828

Natjur wrote: »

Some colour only show a different on heavy (metal)
Do you have one piece of heavy (prefer chest so you can compare better) that you can colour with the two different colours and compare.

Also do you have a shot with the sun shinny on your armor

I'll do full sets tonight when I get home to compare

Mettaricana

i have noted that almost all deep colors in the rare section have a metallic sheen to them loving atmoran bronze

driosketch

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Seiryu828 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

While this may definitely seem to be the case, it probably isn't.

The thing I've found, especially with rare colors, is its not the 'hue' that changes. Its the 'opal' or 'candy' or 'pearl' that changes.

Its like car paint. You can have the same base orange color on 5 cars and have 5 completely different paint jobs depending on the light hitting it and the additives to the color.

They likely made it a pearl instead of an opal or a candy instead of a chameleon while keeping the same hue.

This will be seen most prevalently on heavy armor chest pieces in bright natural light on the highest graphics setting zoomed all the way in.

Please don't take this as a justification of what you are seeing or feeling, just a clarification of semantics. Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

This might be the case. For instance, I believe ransacker and superior blue are the same hue, but superior has a metallic sheen to it, yes even on light armor.

In this case, they both have a metallic sheen on them - as they're both rare colours.

Only 3.9gb to go, I'll screenshot so it makes sense. I swear I'm not going mad!

Are you sure Ransacker Blue is rare? I remember getting it on my first character... before I was level 8... that doesn't seem very rare to me

@diabeticDemon18‌ , I think Seiryu828 was referring to the brass and gold in the title, not the blues.

Ohhh, I thought he was referring to the guy who was talking about ransacker and superior blue, my bad!!

Which was also me by the way, I was the guy.

Seiryu828 wrote: »

Please see my screenshots relating to this:

*Note the shadows under his feet, the slight difference is the sun moving.

Yeah those do look pretty identical. One does look subtly darker than the other, but that's explainable by the shift in light, and looks, to me at least, reversed with the thumbnails.

Faulgor

I saw a slight difference on most pieces, but it still left me hugely disappointed ... I was expecting a much brighter color like we saw on previous Dwarven armors

http://uesp.net/wiki/File:SR-item-Dwarven_Armor_Male.jpg
http://uesp.net/wiki/File:OB-item-Dwarven_Armor.jpg
http://uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-item-Dwemer_Armor.jpg

I'm currently using Evermore Gold on my Dwemer armor, which comes closest imo. Something like that with a "rare" look would be nice, I guess.

Morticide828

Alright, so here are the same chests, with the two colours.

both are Ayleid Gold on LEFT, Dwarven Brass on RIGHT

Heavy on the left, Light on the right (Obviously)
Chests used are Breton Heavy, and Imperial Light robe - if that makes a difference.


It seems it's EVER so slight, but barely worth it. I agree with @Faulgor about it needing to be brighter - or even resemble the bloody Dwemer automatons in the game itself - that would make sense.. Being Dwarven Brass..


SO... for those farming up the motifs, or even worse - buying them - cease and desist. The Ayleid gold is easier to get, and free. Also gives you a bucketload of achievement points to boot

diabeticDemon18

driosketch wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

diabeticDemon18 wrote: »

Seiryu828 wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

While this may definitely seem to be the case, it probably isn't.

The thing I've found, especially with rare colors, is its not the 'hue' that changes. Its the 'opal' or 'candy' or 'pearl' that changes.

Its like car paint. You can have the same base orange color on 5 cars and have 5 completely different paint jobs depending on the light hitting it and the additives to the color.

They likely made it a pearl instead of an opal or a candy instead of a chameleon while keeping the same hue.

This will be seen most prevalently on heavy armor chest pieces in bright natural light on the highest graphics setting zoomed all the way in.

Please don't take this as a justification of what you are seeing or feeling, just a clarification of semantics. Its not the same color, it just looks the same lol

This might be the case. For instance, I believe ransacker and superior blue are the same hue, but superior has a metallic sheen to it, yes even on light armor.

In this case, they both have a metallic sheen on them - as they're both rare colours.

Only 3.9gb to go, I'll screenshot so it makes sense. I swear I'm not going mad!

Are you sure Ransacker Blue is rare? I remember getting it on my first character... before I was level 8... that doesn't seem very rare to me

@diabeticDemon18‌ , I think Seiryu828 was referring to the brass and gold in the title, not the blues.

Ohhh, I thought he was referring to the guy who was talking about ransacker and superior blue, my bad!!

Which was also me by the way, I was the guy.

Seiryu828 wrote: »

Please see my screenshots relating to this:

*Note the shadows under his feet, the slight difference is the sun moving.

Yeah those do look pretty identical. One does look subtly darker than the other, but that's explainable by the shift in light, and looks, to me at least, reversed with the thumbnails.

My bad!! I didn't really read the names, I just kind of read the content

yodased

Yeah it was as I suspected, its exactly the same hue with a different additive to it. The gold has a metallic red clearcoat and the bronze doesn't.

Look at the red veins in the boots and you can see the shimmer and the addition of a different level of deepness in the red on the left vs the right.

The codpiece on the heavy armor is where I see the most difference.

photoshop tells us that these are the underlying colors with all additives removed:

Morticide828

yodased wrote: »

Look at the red veins in the boots and you can see the shimmer and the addition of a different level of deepness in the red on the left vs the right.

You'll have to forgive me friend, the colours are literally only on the chests for light & heavy - the rest is still medium.

For interests sake, the colours are Coldharbour Black on the majority, and Daedric lord red or whatever for the ribbing, and Motif master Bronze for the other bits on my armour.

As below:


Feel free to wave if you see me in Rawl'kha, I'm either drunk or afk

DenverRalphy

Here is a side by side comparison with a medium chest. Dwarven Brass on left, Ayleid Gold on right. Taken without moving, and within 2 seconds of each other to ensure no change in lighting etc..



The gold on the right is definitely a richer color, and the brass on the left is a bit more yellow and definitely more pale in comparison.

yodased

Well they are the same color with different effects, but I guess 6 of one half dozen of another eh?

Morticide828

Aye, well - we've established somewhat different now.

Now, I decree that it's balls that they're so close

Thechemicals

So they messed up on a color pallete too....wow.

Draxys

Seiryu828 wrote: »

Alright, so here are the same chests, with the two colours.

both are Ayleid Gold on LEFT, Dwarven Brass on RIGHT

Heavy on the left, Light on the right (Obviously)
Chests used are Breton Heavy, and Imperial Light robe - if that makes a difference.


It seems it's EVER so slight, but barely worth it. I agree with @Faulgor about it needing to be brighter - or even resemble the bloody Dwemer automatons in the game itself - that would make sense.. Being Dwarven Brass..


SO... for those farming up the motifs, or even worse - buying them - cease and desist. The Ayleid gold is easier to get, and free. Also gives you a bucketload of achievement points to boot

Hopefully people aren't just getting rate motifs for a dye lol

Thechemicals

Really is a shame. I feel that some colors are way to close in appearancew to others as well.

baratron

PBpsy wrote: »

There is also a difference depending on the armor type. For example red dyes on metal are very nice and noticeably different. For light armor one can chose between a large assortment of red, ranging from very washed out red to extremely washed out red.

As someone who uses a mix of armour with all her characters, this annoys the Oblivion out of me. My Sorcerer uses 5 Light/2 Heavy, my Dragonknight uses 3 Light/4 Heavy, my Templar uses 4 Light/3 Medium. I thought the whole point of armour dyes was supposed to be that you could mix different pieces and they'd match?

Apparently not, since the dyes look different on fabric, leather, and metal.