Ability use through block?

ArcVelarian

Am I the only one who thinks this is baloney and abused to death in Cyrodiil, using an ability while blocking and when the animation is over the block goes back up? There are so many ways this doesn't seem like it was intended. Honestly if Zeni is on the same page as me, blocking should lock down your ability bar so long as it's up.

ThatHappyCat

ZOS has indicated that they're considering changes.

Gorthax

so patch 9.87? I mean 9.87 is when the fix to the bug from the fix, that was released in patch 4.68, will be addressed!

Cody

i am with you. I think block and casting is a completly ridiculous mechanic. If you want to attack, you should have to put down your block and ATTACK. to defend, you should have to give up offense to DEFEND. Blocking should be a tactical move, not something you can hide behind the entire battle, while still doing all the damage you possibly can. i cant tell you how sick i am of people with destro staves doing nothing but holding up block and spamming crushing shock, or DKs with shields doing nothing but block and spamming flame whip, and whatever other scenario that can be concived.

Orchish

It wouldn't be such a huge problem if everybody couldn't tank so easily. I am a dedicated tank and it's sad to see all of Cyrodiil in light armour holding a shield and being just as tanky as me, I sacrifice DPS to tank, yet i can easily stick light armour on my DK stack some shields go sword and board and i end up an even better tank than an actual tank in heavy armour simply because its so easy to softcap armour.

Not only does block casting need fixing/changing, they really have to balance the armour sets and define the roles. A tank should be tanky but be forced to sacrifice dps for this. DPS should do good damage, but be forced to sacrifice defence for this etc.

Sadly this is currently not the case, it's to easy to be dps/tank simply by holding sword and board and stacking some shields.

1.6 will be very interesting to see what skills/abilities are changed.

Xsorus

Its amazing how many people still don't understand block after all this time.

Cody

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its amazing how many people still don't understand block after all this time.

/proceeds to observe people in dresses and jerkins being as good of tanks as people in full steel

Wreuntzylla

Here is a thought.

Make low damage, pulsing AOE class abilities blockable.

Bear with me.

Currently, with 1h/Shield, heavy armor and a few enchants, you can reduce block stamina usage to about 25-50 per hit. Meanwhile, class abilities like lightning splash (1 hit every .5 sec) are essentially unused in PvP. With the ability to stack low damage, blockable AOE's on a blocker.... you hopefully see where I am going with this.

As one example, a sorc could combine thundering presence, lightning splash, and light attack weaving for potentially 5 blocked hits per second. That won't drop block from a heavy tank, but it will surely strip a shield-using caster's ability to block in a couple seconds. In my example, a light armor DK without block enchants is a shield-using caster.

Xsorus

Cody wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its amazing how many people still don't understand block after all this time.

/proceeds to observe people in dresses and jerkins being as good of tanks as people in full steel

You just whined about a Destro Staff Light armor guy spamming Crushing Shock was blocking you...

Anyone who understands how blocking works knows how funny that sounds.

Unless he was specifically stacking Block Enchants, which if he's using Crushing Shock he pretty much isn't...It'd take you all but 3 seconds to go through his entire stamina bar.

For example...Lets take two handed axe

If he's blocking, Charge/light attack/bash (the interrupt) That's 4 Bloody hits just from that alone. You're wondering where that 4th hit is from aren't ya? Its from the Axes bleed, Anytime you apply the axes bleed, that first tic is blockable (all tics after that isn't) so you just light attacking with a 2 handed axe automatically counts as 2 hits.. If they're running Light armor with no block cost reduction and a staff, you're draining 400+ stamina every time you hit them with light attack, throw in bashes and thats 600....

That's if you're not a Nightblade..If you're a nightblade its even faster...Throw shades while you fear and do that combo and they're out of stamina even faster..

Cody

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its amazing how many people still don't understand block after all this time.

/proceeds to observe people in dresses and jerkins being as good of tanks as people in full steel

You just whined about a Destro Staff Light armor guy spamming Crushing Shock was blocking you...

Anyone who understands how blocking works knows how funny that sounds.

Unless he was specifically stacking Block Enchants, which if he's using Crushing Shock he pretty much isn't...It'd take you all but 3 seconds to go through his entire stamina bar.

For example...Lets take two handed axe

If he's blocking, Charge/light attack/bash (the interrupt) That's 4 Bloody hits just from that alone. You're wondering where that 4th hit is from aren't ya? Its from the Axes bleed, Anytime you apply the axes bleed, that first tic is blockable (all tics after that isn't) so you just light attacking with a 2 handed axe automatically counts as 2 hits.. If they're running Light armor with no block cost reduction and a staff, you're draining 400+ stamina every time you hit them with light attack, throw in bashes and thats 600....

That's if you're not a Nightblade..If you're a nightblade its even faster...Throw shades while you fear and do that combo and they're out of stamina even faster..

400 drianed stamina every light attack against an LA staffer with no block reduction????

so me hitting someone blocking with a staff with about 6-8 light attacks from my 2H weapons, or absolutly unleashing all the flurries upon them i can....(which their block stays up btw) really drains 200-400 of their stamina? really??? do they just have almost 2000 stamina ALONG with alot of magicka?

let me give you an experience i had awhile back with someone who was blocking me with a staff... i had DW, he was blockign with his staff... i spammed all the flurries i could, wich was at least 6-8 of them... until my stamina bar was completly empty. explain to me how that player STILL was able to keep up their blk when i hit them with those 6-8 flurries. explain to me how that is possible.

explain to me how i cna use charge, then smack them 5-7 times with my 2H light atatcks, whiel suppsoedly draining 400 stamina each hit, yet they STILL keep their blocks up? potions cant possibly restore that much stamina under those instances. unless you meant while i was hitting them with the bleed... i highly doubt light atatcks drain 400 stamina(or the leveld equivelent if you play in blackwater blade)

please send me a link showing that light attacks drain 400+ stamina each hit against someone with LA and no block reduction whiel blocking with a staff. after all the arrows i shoot into people and they STILL have their blocks up... after all the flurries...... light attacks.... DoTs.... all the crap i throw at people..... i refuse to listen to a word you say anymore unless you give me a link.

please forgive any typos and errors. when i correct them, the computer wants to just outright edit what i typed instead of just fixing the error, and im not re-typing this whole post all over again.

Xsorus

Cody wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its amazing how many people still don't understand block after all this time.

/proceeds to observe people in dresses and jerkins being as good of tanks as people in full steel

You just whined about a Destro Staff Light armor guy spamming Crushing Shock was blocking you...

Anyone who understands how blocking works knows how funny that sounds.

Unless he was specifically stacking Block Enchants, which if he's using Crushing Shock he pretty much isn't...It'd take you all but 3 seconds to go through his entire stamina bar.

For example...Lets take two handed axe

If he's blocking, Charge/light attack/bash (the interrupt) That's 4 Bloody hits just from that alone. You're wondering where that 4th hit is from aren't ya? Its from the Axes bleed, Anytime you apply the axes bleed, that first tic is blockable (all tics after that isn't) so you just light attacking with a 2 handed axe automatically counts as 2 hits.. If they're running Light armor with no block cost reduction and a staff, you're draining 400+ stamina every time you hit them with light attack, throw in bashes and thats 600....

That's if you're not a Nightblade..If you're a nightblade its even faster...Throw shades while you fear and do that combo and they're out of stamina even faster..

400 drianed stamina every light attack against an LA staffer with no block reduction????

so me hitting someone blocking with a staff with about 6-8 light attacks from my 2H weapons, or absolutly unleashing all the flurries upon them i can....(which their block stays up btw) really drains 200-400 of their stamina? really??? do they just have almost 2000 stamina ALONG with alot of magicka?

let me give you an experience i had awhile back with someone who was blocking me with a staff... i had DW, he was blockign with his staff... i spammed all the flurries i could, wich was at least 6-8 of them... until my stamina bar was completly empty. explain to me how that player STILL was able to keep up their blk when i hit them with those 6-8 flurries. explain to me how that is possible.

explain to me how i cna use charge, then smack them 5-7 times with my 2H light atatcks, whiel suppsoedly draining 400 stamina each hit, yet they STILL keep their blocks up? potions cant possibly restore that much stamina under those instances. unless you meant while i was hitting them with the bleed... i highly doubt light atatcks drain 400 stamina(or the leveld equivelent if you play in blackwater blade)

please send me a link showing that light attacks drain 400+ stamina each hit against someone with LA and no block reduction whiel blocking with a staff. after all the arrows i shoot into people and they STILL have their blocks up... after all the flurries...... light attacks.... DoTs.... all the crap i throw at people..... i refuse to listen to a word you say anymore unless you give me a link.

please forgive any typos and errors. when i correct them, the computer wants to just outright edit what i typed instead of just fixing the error, and im not re-typing this whole post all over again.

If you do Light Attack with Axe/Bash that's 3 hits every time, that's 600 stamina, Against most light armor users, you're going to have 1500 on the low end, 1700 on the high end...that's 3 light attacks to basically completely gimp their stamina..If you're a dual wielder you can use 2 axes and accomplish the same thing (while weaving in other attacks as well. Just spamming flurry while costing low stamina takes longer to drain stamina then simply doing what I said..If you're a nightblade throw down shades and its even faster like I said...

There is no reasonable way to keep up stamina while blocking unless you specifically build for it, and that means 1 handed/shield + block cost reduction (you can further reduce it with an ability and armor, but its not that needed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRZriApif9Q&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

Here's a video showing examples of how much stamina cost for certain things.

Again Bleeds from the Axe traits on both 2 hander and dual wield apply a bleed every hit, that bleed is blockable....(the first tic)

If you want to rip through stamina and you use those weapons, use axes...

Cody

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Its amazing how many people still don't understand block after all this time.

/proceeds to observe people in dresses and jerkins being as good of tanks as people in full steel

You just whined about a Destro Staff Light armor guy spamming Crushing Shock was blocking you...

Anyone who understands how blocking works knows how funny that sounds.

Unless he was specifically stacking Block Enchants, which if he's using Crushing Shock he pretty much isn't...It'd take you all but 3 seconds to go through his entire stamina bar.

For example...Lets take two handed axe

If he's blocking, Charge/light attack/bash (the interrupt) That's 4 Bloody hits just from that alone. You're wondering where that 4th hit is from aren't ya? Its from the Axes bleed, Anytime you apply the axes bleed, that first tic is blockable (all tics after that isn't) so you just light attacking with a 2 handed axe automatically counts as 2 hits.. If they're running Light armor with no block cost reduction and a staff, you're draining 400+ stamina every time you hit them with light attack, throw in bashes and thats 600....

That's if you're not a Nightblade..If you're a nightblade its even faster...Throw shades while you fear and do that combo and they're out of stamina even faster..

400 drianed stamina every light attack against an LA staffer with no block reduction????

so me hitting someone blocking with a staff with about 6-8 light attacks from my 2H weapons, or absolutly unleashing all the flurries upon them i can....(which their block stays up btw) really drains 200-400 of their stamina? really??? do they just have almost 2000 stamina ALONG with alot of magicka?

let me give you an experience i had awhile back with someone who was blocking me with a staff... i had DW, he was blockign with his staff... i spammed all the flurries i could, wich was at least 6-8 of them... until my stamina bar was completly empty. explain to me how that player STILL was able to keep up their blk when i hit them with those 6-8 flurries. explain to me how that is possible.

explain to me how i cna use charge, then smack them 5-7 times with my 2H light atatcks, whiel suppsoedly draining 400 stamina each hit, yet they STILL keep their blocks up? potions cant possibly restore that much stamina under those instances. unless you meant while i was hitting them with the bleed... i highly doubt light atatcks drain 400 stamina(or the leveld equivelent if you play in blackwater blade)

please send me a link showing that light attacks drain 400+ stamina each hit against someone with LA and no block reduction whiel blocking with a staff. after all the arrows i shoot into people and they STILL have their blocks up... after all the flurries...... light attacks.... DoTs.... all the crap i throw at people..... i refuse to listen to a word you say anymore unless you give me a link.

please forgive any typos and errors. when i correct them, the computer wants to just outright edit what i typed instead of just fixing the error, and im not re-typing this whole post all over again.

If you do Light Attack with Axe/Bash that's 3 hits every time, that's 600 stamina, Against most light armor users, you're going to have 1500 on the low end, 1700 on the high end...that's 3 light attacks to basically completely gimp their stamina..If you're a dual wielder you can use 2 axes and accomplish the same thing (while weaving in other attacks as well. Just spamming flurry while costing low stamina takes longer to drain stamina then simply doing what I said..If you're a nightblade throw down shades and its even faster like I said...

There is no reasonable way to keep up stamina while blocking unless you specifically build for it, and that means 1 handed/shield + block cost reduction (you can further reduce it with an ability and armor, but its not that needed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRZriApif9Q&list=UUXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw

Here's a video showing examples of how much stamina cost for certain things.

Again Bleeds from the Axe traits on both 2 hander and dual wield apply a bleed every hit, that bleed is blockable....(the first tic)

If you want to rip through stamina and you use those weapons, use axes...

alright. i will give this a try whenever i can get my hands on some VR13 axes and i get the dang DW skill up to get those passives.

im still not going to approve of people in dresses and jerkins being as good of tanks as people in all steel. no matter what argument you come up with, i will never approve of that. (i also dont understand why bleeds are blockable..... or the fact that a wooden stick can block a steel mace to begin with, but there is no sense in arguing about it anymore)

Xexpo

OK, so I get the QQ about block casting (sorta)
but.. it's been like this since early pts beta.

Why do you folks feel entitled to change game mechanics?
(and the first one of you that says something about it not being realistic, is getting your life force essence drained by my humanoid lizard vampire)


And what's with the crazy amount of NB's mad about this specific mechanic??

guybrushtb16_ESO

kaer426 wrote: »

OK, so I get the QQ about block casting (sorta)
but.. it's been like this since early pts beta.

Why do you folks feel entitled to change game mechanics?
(and the first one of you that says something about it not being realistic, is getting your life force essence drained by my humanoid lizard vampire)


And what's with the crazy amount of NB's mad about this specific mechanic??

I don't know why you would bring the game being set in a fantasy world into it, of course it can be reasonably "realistic" that people in the game's world do something like block casting, it's just that it's obviously a very bad mechanic for a game.

Cody

kaer426 wrote: »

OK, so I get the QQ about block casting (sorta)
but.. it's been like this since early pts beta.

Why do you folks feel entitled to change game mechanics?
(and the first one of you that says something about it not being realistic, is getting your life force essence drained by my humanoid lizard vampire)


And what's with the crazy amount of NB's mad about this specific mechanic??

entitilement? how does it mean i am entitled? does that mean everytime i dislike a game mechanic, i am entitiled?

guess i better not criticize any of the games mistakes anymore. as suggesting a change to a mechanic i feel is bad means i am entitled.

im sorry, but i just dont understand that logic.

Cody

kaer426 wrote: »

OK, so I get the QQ about block casting (sorta)
but.. it's been like this since early pts beta.

Why do you folks feel entitled to change game mechanics?
(and the first one of you that says something about it not being realistic, is getting your life force essence drained by my humanoid lizard vampire)


And what's with the crazy amount of NB's mad about this specific mechanic??

and its not just NBs that dislike block and casting. MANY people dislike it.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

Yeah,

I was in Cyrodiil last week in Cheydinhal and fighting a female Vampire Argonian Templar who used one handed and shield and all the person did was Block CAST. If I would damage her she would just hold block and cast heal and damage spells over and over. I finally got tired of it and used Cloak and disengaged. I was gonna wait for reinforcements and attack again but my teammates wanted to go siege a keep, so I left and did that.

It was very annoying though.

Just like the above Nightblade (CODY) stated, I used Flurry and all sorts of abilities and melee weapon attacks and I just couldn't break her block.

I did see some damage get through the block but then she would just heal herself over and over and over.

boggie

I understand the frustration. Yes, it's an annoying mechanic in its current state. But they've already said they are looking into it, and any time you approach making a major change to a fundamental game mechanic (especially something as vital as block), it has to be done carefully. Imagine what would happen if they rushed a "fix" only to find that block had become unreliable in PVE. Imagine the uproar if, due to a block "fix", tanking mechanics became awkward and clunky. They've stated that block is currently the way it is because they wanted it to be responsive and treated as a "top priority action" that couldn't be overridden by other things. Imagine if, while tanking a dungeon, suddenly you could not block until whatever spell/attack you had just used finished its full animation. Personally, I'd much rather deal with it in its current state until they release a fix that gets it right, as opposed to getting a rough "fix" that more likely than not would just break another aspect of gameplay even worse. For the time being it's manageable. Annoying, but manageable.