Is the 5 piece Warlock set bonus over rated?

eventide03b14a_ESO

At higher levels is the Warlock set bonus less important with potions allowing for greater magicka gains more frequently? If so what set do you personally prefer instead?

Fenris

Templar Healer here - Using Seducer/warlock

I still use it. I temporarily swapped to Seducer/Healer for 2 months, and found that even with potions and heavy attacks, sometimes you need to spam grand healing for 3-4 minutes, or cast BoL 20-30 times in a row. Without warlock, I couldn't do that. For instance, the AA hard mode mage. In those situations, even with 2500 magicka and 140 magicka regen, 135 spell damage (I use spell damage rings, not reduce cost) and potions, with 6 light and the breton passive, I would still run out of mana too early. My heals were hitting hard enough, but I could not stop casting because if the boss double attacked, or if an add hit someone a split second after a boss, I needed to have my heals already on the ground. When a fight allows you to heavy attack and heal occasionally, warlock is worthless. When the fight mechanics require you to spam heals whether allies are currently hurt or not, warlock is a must have.

Going top on regular hel-ra is the same. When the boss splits and meteors go everywhere, you cant risk not spamming BoL because all it takes is for 1 person to get an autoattack and meteor to the face in a short time window to die. If the Templar is able to spam BoL constantly until the adds are dead, the group gets more mistakes forgiven.

leandro.800ub17_ESO

warlock is probably the best set in game. helps all kinds of builds

manny254

Very Overrated. I would rather have a set that helps me 24/7.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Fenris wrote: »

Templar Healer here - Using Seducer/warlock

I still use it. I temporarily swapped to Seducer/Healer for 2 months, and found that even with potions and heavy attacks, sometimes you need to spam grand healing for 3-4 minutes, or cast BoL 20-30 times in a row. Without warlock, I couldn't do that. For instance, the AA hard mode mage. In those situations, even with 2500 magicka and 140 magicka regen, 135 spell damage (I use spell damage rings, not reduce cost) and potions, with 6 light and the breton passive, I would still run out of mana too early. My heals were hitting hard enough, but I could not stop casting because if the boss double attacked, or if an add hit someone a split second after a boss, I needed to have my heals already on the ground. When a fight allows you to heavy attack and heal occasionally, warlock is worthless. When the fight mechanics require you to spam heals whether allies are currently hurt or not, warlock is a must have.

Going top on regular hel-ra is the same. When the boss splits and meteors go everywhere, you cant risk not spamming BoL because all it takes is for 1 person to get an autoattack and meteor to the face in a short time window to die. If the Templar is able to spam BoL constantly until the adds are dead, the group gets more mistakes forgiven.

Wow. So it almost seems situational, and I wonder if this is just due to magicka management of the Templar class. This is not the first time I have heard about Templars and magicka issues.

manny254

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Fenris wrote: »

Templar Healer here - Using Seducer/warlock

I still use it. I temporarily swapped to Seducer/Healer for 2 months, and found that even with potions and heavy attacks, sometimes you need to spam grand healing for 3-4 minutes, or cast BoL 20-30 times in a row. Without warlock, I couldn't do that. For instance, the AA hard mode mage. In those situations, even with 2500 magicka and 140 magicka regen, 135 spell damage (I use spell damage rings, not reduce cost) and potions, with 6 light and the breton passive, I would still run out of mana too early. My heals were hitting hard enough, but I could not stop casting because if the boss double attacked, or if an add hit someone a split second after a boss, I needed to have my heals already on the ground. When a fight allows you to heavy attack and heal occasionally, warlock is worthless. When the fight mechanics require you to spam heals whether allies are currently hurt or not, warlock is a must have.

Going top on regular hel-ra is the same. When the boss splits and meteors go everywhere, you cant risk not spamming BoL because all it takes is for 1 person to get an autoattack and meteor to the face in a short time window to die. If the Templar is able to spam BoL constantly until the adds are dead, the group gets more mistakes forgiven.

Wow. So it almost seems situational, and I wonder if this is just due to magicka management of the Templar class. This is not the first time I have heard about Templars and magicka issues.

Templar magic issues are a myth that people echo to often. At max level a templar should not have magic issues if they know what they are doing. The only way to get people to stop talking about it would be to make all our class skill cost 0 magic.

Cuyler

Still on the fence on this topic. Need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

The first that comes to mind is the "elegant" set but it's hard to find them with magicka enchants and a decent trait. I've only been able to find 2 pieces will the right stats so far.

EDIT: I can say that the flood every 60 seconds is a very long time to wait in battle. I often see the flood occur and then run oom not long after. Then end up having to switch to spell symmetry anyways. I guess it saves the healer from healing me once a minute. I'm beginning to think it's overrated. Something with spell damage or spell crit could be more effective.

manny254

Cuyler wrote: »

Still on the fence on this topic. Need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

The first that comes to mind is the "elegant" set but it's hard to find them with magicka enchants and a decent trait. I've only been able to find 2 pieces will the right stats so far.

No one is stating alternatives because no class/build has really been specified.

Cuyler

manny254 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Still on the fence on this topic. Need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

The first that comes to mind is the "elegant" set but it's hard to find them with magicka enchants and a decent trait. I've only been able to find 2 pieces with the right stats so far.

No one is stating alternatives because no class/build has really been specified.

True, however I was referring to all of the internet, not simply this thread. After an exhaustive search the results show that most caster builds are using warlock (irrespective of what class).

Finding a popular caster build that doesn't is like finding a needle in a haystack, forcing me to do my own research. Hence, I need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

To OP some other sets to look at for light armor casters:
Seducer
Willow's path
Soulshine (jewelry only)
Wise Mage
Imperium
Elegance
Arch Mage
Martial Knowledge
There's more too but that's off the top of my head.

manny254

Cuyler wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Still on the fence on this topic. Need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

The first that comes to mind is the "elegant" set but it's hard to find them with magicka enchants and a decent trait. I've only been able to find 2 pieces with the right stats so far.

No one is stating alternatives because no class/build has really been specified.

True, however I was referring to all of the internet, not simply this thread. After an exhaustive search the results show that most caster builds are using warlock (irrespective of what class).

Finding a popular caster build that doesn't is like finding a needle in a haystack, forcing me to do my own research. Hence, I need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

To OP some other sets to look at for light armor casters:
Seducer
Willow's path
Soulshine (jewelry only)
Wise Mage
Imperium
Elegance
Arch Mage
Martial Knowledge
There's more too but that's off the top of my head.

Another options that I have found for jewlery in spell damage builds is 2 cyrodiil's light (rings) and and 2 adroitness (neck and one body piece normally boots or belt). This will net you 16 spell damage or the equivalent of 1 spell damage enchant. This load out will also let you use the new 2 pc boss heads, and one 5 pc crafted set or a 4 pc droped set such as aether.

Also the ring are from the elite vendor in pvp, or bought from other players (248k ap or around 40k gold ea). Adroitness is from Crypt of hearts.

itsBishop

As a templar healer, I've considered swapping Warlock for a hybrid Elegant/Healer setup to boost output - 2 piece Elegant and 3 Healer jewels with spell cost reductionx2 and weapon damage glyphs. Like others have mentioned, the magicka flood bonus often seems to come at inopportune times (e.g, Serpent fight, when trying to dump mana) or isn't particularly useful and I rarely find myself running OOM even in fights that demand extensive healing springs spam like much of SO. If I do get anywhere near 33% magicka I can easily use spell symmetry to get a quick boost.

The only place I can still see warlock being truly useful is in Vet DSA where spell symming is less of an option, but there are still ways around having to run it in this case.

manny254

itsBishop wrote: »

As a templar healer, I've considered swapping Warlock for a hybrid Elegant/Healer setup to boost output - 2 piece Elegant and 3 Healer jewels with spell cost reductionx2 and weapon damage glyphs. Like others have mentioned, the magicka flood bonus often seems to come at inopportune times (e.g, Serpent fight, when trying to dump mana) or isn't particularly useful and I rarely find myself running OOM even in fights that demand extensive healing springs spam like much of SO. If I do get anywhere near 33% magicka I can easily use spell symmetry to get a quick boost.

The only place I can still see warlock being truly useful is in Vet DSA where spell symming is less of an option, but there are still ways around having to run it in this case.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Relics+of+the+Physician+Ansur+Set

I am curious what you think about incorporating this set into a healing build. So far I have one staff and one ring in v12. Hope to get one more staff and ring eventually.

Nestor

If anyone needs the Necklace or Ring for the Warlock Set, I have some VR1s that I can sell. Combining them with the VR12 stuff should be about the same as a VR12 ring would be as far as the set bonus. This based on other sets I have combined from different levels. PM me if you need the Signet or the Focus. I also have some armor from the set too, again VR1.

Oughash

The Warlock set is basically the most flexible set in the entire game. Reasons:
(0) All class abilities are magicka-based.
(1) It comes in every piece except weapons (amulet, rings, all armor). This enables much flexibility in matching with other sets. For example, you can got 2-light and still have five piece warlock.
(2) It comes infused. Many drops sets come with worthless traits (I'm looking at you, light of cyrodil >.<)
(3) 33% magicka every minute for 2.2k magicka character is 733. This is equivalent to an additional 12 magicka per second, or 24 magicka regen. It can also be considered equivalent to an additional potion.

Fenris

manny254 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Fenris wrote: »

Templar Healer here - Using Seducer/warlock

I still use it. I temporarily swapped to Seducer/Healer for 2 months, and found that even with potions and heavy attacks, sometimes you need to spam grand healing for 3-4 minutes, or cast BoL 20-30 times in a row. Without warlock, I couldn't do that. For instance, the AA hard mode mage. In those situations, even with 2500 magicka and 140 magicka regen, 135 spell damage (I use spell damage rings, not reduce cost) and potions, with 6 light and the breton passive, I would still run out of mana too early. My heals were hitting hard enough, but I could not stop casting because if the boss double attacked, or if an add hit someone a split second after a boss, I needed to have my heals already on the ground. When a fight allows you to heavy attack and heal occasionally, warlock is worthless. When the fight mechanics require you to spam heals whether allies are currently hurt or not, warlock is a must have.

Going top on regular hel-ra is the same. When the boss splits and meteors go everywhere, you cant risk not spamming BoL because all it takes is for 1 person to get an autoattack and meteor to the face in a short time window to die. If the Templar is able to spam BoL constantly until the adds are dead, the group gets more mistakes forgiven.

Wow. So it almost seems situational, and I wonder if this is just due to magicka management of the Templar class. This is not the first time I have heard about Templars and magicka issues.

Templar magic issues are a myth that people echo to often. At max level a templar should not have magic issues if they know what they are doing. The only way to get people to stop talking about it would be to make all our class skill cost 0 magic.

I never said Templars in particular have magicka issues. My point here is that some situations require you to abuse your magicka pool, constant casting with zero heavy resto attacks for regen. In those situations, full light armor plus seducer, plus warlock, plus potions can actually sustain a mana pool for multiple minutes. Seducer and light armor reduce the costs of spells by a lot. When you add 2 potions (30 second CD) and 1 mana flood per minute, you get a very huge boost to your mana pool, which can sustain during issues of magicka abuse. Any class attempting to permaspam a group with grand healing will have to do something like this in order to sustain, else they will need to weave heavy attacks in which in some fights just cannot be done without risk of losing an ally.

Cuyler wrote: »

Still on the fence on this topic. Need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

The first that comes to mind is the "elegant" set but it's hard to find them with magicka enchants and a decent trait. I've only been able to find 2 pieces will the right stats so far.

EDIT: I can say that the flood every 60 seconds is a very long time to wait in battle. I often see the flood occur and then run oom not long after. Then end up having to switch to spell symmetry anyways. I guess it saves the healer from healing me once a minute. I'm beginning to think it's overrated. Something with spell damage or spell crit could be more effective.

As far as the mana flood not being that much, again, you have to look at it in addition to potion spam and highly reduced costs of healing spells. Mana flood is fantastic if it pops at time=0, then you eat a potion at time=15s, eat another at time=45s, mana flood pops again at 60s. This is usually what happens if you need to spam heals for 4-5 minutes. Again, if you can heavy attack in between like in most 4man dungeons, then its totally unnecessary.

As far as spell sym, its pretty great for letting you spam spells, I wont lie. However, it can be dangerous depending on the situation, and you cant heal yourself afterwards for 4 seconds. If you have two healers spamming heals, then spell sym is very worthwhile and can replace warlock, assuming you also dont mind giving up the extra slot on your bar.

itsBishop

manny254 wrote: »

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Relics+of+the+Physician+Ansur+Set

I am curious what you think about incorporating this set into a healing build. So far I have one staff and one ring in v12. Hope to get one more staff and ring eventually.

I used to run the Thorn's set back when AA/Hel Ra first released and loved it then. One thing I'd be concerned about now is how it would leave you with a random neck, or force you to use the 3-piece Healer (or Warlock) to incorporate that slot into another set.

Also, the 3-piece 5% bonus to heals isn't that great. For comparison, the 2-piece elegant set bonus (+17 weapon damage) results in ~5.9% increase to resto staff heals itself. Sure, you miss the boost to Breath of Life and other templar heals, but they already benefit tremendously from your class line passives and BoL in particular is typically only used in low-health situations where it gains the extra crit chance anyway.

So, given the time investment in farming the set I'm not sure it's worth it in the long run.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Cuyler wrote: »

Still on the fence on this topic. Need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

The first that comes to mind is the "elegant" set but it's hard to find them with magicka enchants and a decent trait. I've only been able to find 2 pieces will the right stats so far.

EDIT: I can say that the flood every 60 seconds is a very long time to wait in battle. I often see the flood occur and then run oom not long after. Then end up having to switch to spell symmetry anyways. I guess it saves the healer from healing me once a minute. I'm beginning to think it's overrated. Something with spell damage or spell crit could be more effective.

I make potions that give more magicka than flood and I can use those every 30 seconds and add other effects on top of them. Should they be used in conjunction with Warlock set or should a person reasonably not need it anymore? I would like to see some alternatives even if it's just for DPS or utility.

Natjur

Seducer/warlock is a good set but I recommend waiting to patch 1.6 before replacing it. Once restro staff gets changed to be based on spell crit\spell damage, the best healing set will be one that adds lots of spell damage and some spell crit

15 spell damage > 5% extra healing

eventide03b14a_ESO

Definitely some great answers. I'm a V11 nightblade and I typically use 5 pieces of medium armor and then 5 pieces of warlock set, necklace rings and two pieces of light armor. I use a combination of stamina abilities from bow, DW, SH and class abilities and restoration staff. I like that I can get the full bonus from medium armor along with Hundings 5 set bonus, but as I approach V12 I'm wondering if I should consider a different set or stick with the Warlock set I have grown used to. It's nice to get even that small bonus from the light armor passives as well, but maybe full medium armor is the way to go. Thanks to everyone who has participated so far it's been insightful.

OrangeTheCat

My sorc healer\dps doesn't use warlocks anymore and she never runs out of magicka. I'd probably still use it if it were reverted back to requiring only three items but as it stands now not worth the money or hastle of acquiring it IMO.

eventide03b14a_ESO

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

My sorc healer\dps doesn't use warlocks anymore and she never runs out of magicka. I'd probably still use it if it were reverted back to requiring only three items but as it stands now not worth the money or hastle of acquiring it IMO.

I'm curious. Do you use Dark Exchange or do you have some other magicka management method?

OrangeTheCat

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

My sorc healer\dps doesn't use warlocks anymore and she never runs out of magicka. I'd probably still use it if it were reverted back to requiring only three items but as it stands now not worth the money or hastle of acquiring it IMO.

I'm curious. Do you use Dark Exchange or do you have some other magicka management method?

I just keep a close eye on my magicka is all and I know which skills are cost effective magicka-wise. I basically don't unnecessarily spam heals like a lot of folks seem to do. I sometimes equip dark exchange just in case but I've rarely used it TBH.

I'm not saying my magicka doesn't get low. It does. But I've never not been able to use a skill due to being OOM.

OrangeTheCat

But on my NB, however, I can totally see how warlocks would be very useful as I find resource management so much harder. But that's probably just me.

eventide03b14a_ESO

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

My sorc healer\dps doesn't use warlocks anymore and she never runs out of magicka. I'd probably still use it if it were reverted back to requiring only three items but as it stands now not worth the money or hastle of acquiring it IMO.

I'm curious. Do you use Dark Exchange or do you have some other magicka management method?

I just keep a close eye on my magicka is all and I know which skills are cost effective magicka-wise. I sometimes equip dark exchange just in case but I've rarely used it TBH.

I'm not saying my magicka doesn't get low. It does. But I've never not been able to use a skill due to being OOM.

Wow I wish I could say that. I use potions quite a bit myself or I switch between magicka or stamina abilities when one becomes depleted.

OrangeTheCat

What's wrong with using potions? I use them too.

OrangeTheCat

Oh, and I just remembered. My sorc uses some staff that returns a smallish amount of mana during light\heavy attacks. So that helps some.

Pyatra

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

My sorc healer\dps doesn't use warlocks anymore and she never runs out of magicka. I'd probably still use it if it were reverted back to requiring only three items but as it stands now not worth the money or hastle of acquiring it IMO.

I'm curious. Do you use Dark Exchange or do you have some other magicka management method?

I just keep a close eye on my magicka is all and I know which skills are cost effective magicka-wise. I sometimes equip dark exchange just in case but I've rarely used it TBH.

I'm not saying my magicka doesn't get low. It does. But I've never not been able to use a skill due to being OOM.

Wow I wish I could say that. I use potions quite a bit myself or I switch between magicka or stamina abilities when one becomes depleted.

Sadly Sorcs have a rough time on selection, there are some fun skills that would be nice to try out but the Magicka Cost is absolutely silly. Looking at you Daedric Mines. ಠ_ಠ

mattgbrowneub17_ESO

As a V14 temp healer, I run 5-warlock + 5 Seducer with my extra ring being one that grants me +442 armor, making having 7 light armor pieces more viable. On top of that I pop tri-potions that restore magicka, and boost spell power and spell crit.

As what i consider to be an end game healing build i have 2430 magicka, 2900 health, 1500 stam, magicka regen at 153. With inner light and potions my spell crit is 64%, can't remember what spell power gets up to.

I haven't come across a healing build that will get you better resource management + spell power as a templar. Unfortunately its also hard to come across a pick-up-group that can successfully tank and DPS a vet12 undaunted run, making all my healing powers useless ;(

superfluke

My sorc still uses 5/5 warlock seducer combo about half the time. You sacrifice potency for sustain. With 5/5 I never and I mean never run out of magicka. It's situational but still very viable imo.

Cuyler

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Still on the fence on this topic. Need to do more research as there doesn't appear to be anyone stating the alternatives.

The first that comes to mind is the "elegant" set but it's hard to find them with magicka enchants and a decent trait. I've only been able to find 2 pieces will the right stats so far.

EDIT: I can say that the flood every 60 seconds is a very long time to wait in battle. I often see the flood occur and then run oom not long after. Then end up having to switch to spell symmetry anyways. I guess it saves the healer from healing me once a minute. I'm beginning to think it's overrated. Something with spell damage or spell crit could be more effective.

I make potions that give more magicka than flood and I can use those every 30 seconds and add other effects on top of them. Should they be used in conjunction with Warlock set or should a person reasonably not need it anymore? I would like to see some alternatives even if it's just for DPS or utility.

From my experience you can never have enough magicka regen. So the potions wouldn't be cause to replace a warlock set. Using them in conjunction wouldn't be overkill. I do this now and still run oom on trial bosses. Requiring symmetry and a heal.

As I try to keep my pool from dropping below 33% really the flood isn't proccing as often as I'd like it to therefore making the bonus not that useful in 95% of battles.

I'll be looking at ways to augment my spell damage while retaining my regen and not worrying about a flood every 60 sec (if I'm below 33%). I'd rather put more damage down so the fight doesn't last longer than 3 min, eiliminating the long wait time for the flood proc.

Draxys

For PvE dps, potion speed glyphs > warlock... if you can afford chugging them