Suggestion Armor sets crafting and traits

teladoy

Can someone explain me the logic of the traits in the armor sets?

I mean there are sets that need from 2 to 8 traits to be possible to be craft.

If I check whats the best set for my templar healer, I see that all the sets that need from 4 to 8 traits are useless for me.

The best sets for me will be: Armor of the Seducer that needs only 3 traits, maybe Magnus' Gift that needs 4 traits or Twilight's Embrace 3 traits.

Then for example with my NB with daggers, if I check what are the best sets, I see that Hunding's Rage 6 traits and Night Mother's Gaze 6 traits are the optimal.


And here is where my logic crash, no set is better than any other, because they are all different in stats, but in order to craft the one you need more, you need to research more or less traits.


So whats the point? help some classes and builds to craft what they need more easy and another ones make them research over months?


My suggestion is to do all sets craftable from 2 to 8 traits and depending on how many traits you have researched with that piece of armor, the item will be more stronger or not. Plus of course enchants.

Example you want to craft a chest piece of the armor set X, you have researched with that piece only 2 traits, you can craft it, but you only receive 2 spell damage bonus. Lets suppouse now you have 6 traits researched, you will receive 6 spell damage bonus. If you have the 8 traits researched then you will get 8 spell damage bonus.

Do I explain? Sorry if my english is not very clear. Now Discuss.

PBpsy

The logic behind most ESO class/weapon skill and crafted set progression is that what is most generally useful unlocks early and what is somewhat niche or situational comes a bit later.It is not a gradual increase in power and that is awesome.
For example the first 2 skills of each line will be, with few exceptions the most used skills of that line. The later ones are usually not more powerful but ofer interesting options.

For crafted sets by the time you reach 3 traits you already unlocked a good useful set for every type of character.Night's Silence,Torug's,Twilight's, Seducer. These sets remain useful until VR14. The higher trait sets may be better for some special builds but the low trait set can be decent for most builds until they get to the end game dropped stuff.

Of course at the moment it doesn't matter anymore.In pretty much any casual pve guild if you asks someone to craft any set you will find someone that does it for free with your mats.

Sharee

teladoy wrote: »

Then for example with my NB with daggers, if I check what are the best sets, I see that Hunding's Rage 6 traits and Night Mother's Gaze 6 traits are the optimal.

It's a matter of priorities. The above sets only seem optimal to you because your priorities are to maximize weapon crit and damage. For someone who is trying to maximize his stamina build's survivability in pvp, along with having more rounded stats, the arena set is excellent. For a templar who is planning to act as the guy who rezzes everyone left and right in PvP, possibly saving the day, the Oblivion's foe set is invaluable. Etc. etc.

teladoy

But you guys are giving to me the reason some how.

@PBpsy
"The logic behind most ESO class/weapon skill and crafted set progression is that what is most generally useful unlocks early and what is somewhat niche or situational comes a bit later"

This is pure supposition, because this can only be decide by the person that is building his character. In my opinion the seducer set is the optimal, even at VR14 vs Eyes of Mara.

Why? because I use two weapons, resto and destruction, and I prefeer the 8% magicka reduction in all my skills and not a 12% magicka reduction in only my restoration staff abilities! hello???

Supouse that the Seducer set needs 8 traits and the Eyes of mara 3... how decides this? why one and not the other one? who says that 12% reduction in resto staff is more important than 8% reduction in all spells? the developers? the president of EEUU? SHOULD NOT BE THE PLAYER? because that says my logic, we are free to use the weapon we want, and do what we want.



@Sharee
"It's a matter of priorities. The above sets only seem optimal to you because your priorities are to maximize weapon crit and damage"

You confirm al what i said till now, but with different words. It's a matter of priorities, and is sad that my priority needs only 3 traits and for someone else 8.

I repeat myself, give to the players the possibility to craft any set, but for each trait researched make the set more powerful, in this way you give the freedom to the players to build what they want and need, and from the other side the incentive to research all the traits.

Sharee

teladoy wrote: »

@Sharee
"It's a matter of priorities. The above sets only seem optimal to you because your priorities are to maximize weapon crit and damage"

You confirm al what i said till now, but with different words.

Actually, you said there is no point to higher tier sets since they are not more powerful. I said the point is having a wider variety of available set bonuses.

teladoy wrote: »

I repeat myself, give to the players the possibility to craft any set, but for each trait researched make the set more powerful, in this way you give the freedom to the players to build what they want and need, and from the other side the incentive to research all the traits.

What you would achieve with this is making every crafter who does not have all traits researched useless. Because who would buy an inferior set of Seducer when he can get the top trait version? You would create an artifical and mandatory crafting grind for every wanna-be crafter, even if all he wants to craft is a 2-trait set. I do not think it is a good idea.

teladoy

@Sharee‌

We are talking about pros and cons.

Your opinion is more traits = more variety of sets.
You can craft sets than any other with less traits researched can not. This is a pro if we think it from the point of view of exclusiveness. But is a cons if you decide to be class X, build X and you can not have the set X, because you need 8 traits, AND the things is, that the set you want is not that has more powerful bonuses!, has differents!!

In my opinion, more traits = set with more powerful stats + lvl.
I have 8 traits researched and you 4, I will make more poweful sets, everybody will want to buy my sets, but who says maybe not yours also, because they would be more cheap in theory. Can be also that you have more traits researched in blacksmith and me not. This will bring variety in all sense.

Also I believe that the incentive to get all traits would be major. Because personally I would think... do I need 8 traits if I need only 3 for what I need? because it doesn't matter, I will have the most powerfull set only with crafting it with the materials corresponding to my level, that's it.

Izzban

I don't think this idea will work. Players won't craft for themselves until they are max trait. New crafters will find someone else to make their stuff because it is better. Your idea to be able to make all sets yourself will have the exact same effect as now. You will not want an inferior set that you can make yourself when the option to have a max trait crafter make a superior set exists, just the same as now when you don't have enough traits to make the set you want, you seek someone who does have it.

It seems like a big change for no real gain. Low trait crafters can make every set, but their sets are less powerful. This will make the old low trait sets (the ones we have now) just as attractive. It's a wash, you aren't gaining anything by this change.

This idea will stop new players crafting for themselves.

teladoy

@Izzban

With that theory then we would only need 1 player in all the server that can craft all, because it doesn't matter, he can craft all anyways.

Come on, there is an existing interest for each one to become himself the crafter and not have to ask. Because anyways you can always ask to somebody to do the set for you, a set of 3 or 8 traits.

Example you want a set of 8 traits, you can research it yourself, or you can ask to somebody to do it.

guybrushtb16_ESO

teladoy wrote: »

Example you want to craft a chest piece of the armor set X, you have researched with that piece only 2 traits, you can craft it, but you only receive 2 spell damage bonus. Lets suppouse now you have 6 traits researched, you will receive 6 spell damage bonus. If you have the 8 traits researched then you will get 8 spell damage bonus.

Do I explain? Sorry if my english is not very clear. Now Discuss.

That's a horrible idea because it would mean that I would have to wait until 8 traits before I could craft anything that could potentially be worth upgrading to gold and would instead have to buy it off others. No thanks.

teladoy

@‌guybrushtb16_ESO

you can upgrade your item to blue, yellow, etc, but it would be slightly worse than if it would be crafeted with 8 traits.

I mean that would be the thing, with dedication and work you can do the best of best, if not, then you have to buy it from someone else, that did what you don't want, or simply have items slightly worse and live with it.

Also you have to think that you would not be the only one, everybody in the game would be in the same difficult situation as you.

Rosveen

teladoy wrote: »

Then for example with my NB with daggers, if I check what are the best sets, I see that Hunding's Rage 6 traits and Night Mother's Gaze 6 traits are the optimal.

For my dw NB the optimal sets are Hunding's Rage (6 traits) + Ashen Grip (2 traits). At one point I used to run in Night's Silence (2 traits) for the sneak speed bonus. What now?

I agree the distribution is a little strange as most of the 8 trait sets are less universally useful, but maybe that was the point: to make some good sets available early on. I don't know. I don't really mind.

AlexDougherty

teladoy wrote: »

Can someone explain me the logic of the traits in the armor sets?

I mean there are sets that need from 2 to 8 traits to be possible to be craft.

If I check whats the best set for my templar healer, I see that all the sets that need from 4 to 8 traits are useless for me.

Really, hmmm, I used a five trait set and a six trait set.

I know most of us despise the eight trait sets and there are no seven trait sets.
But all the other sets have their devotees, and it would be boring indeed if we all agreed on the best combos.

Nestor

My Dragon Knight in Heavy Armor uses Hundings Rage/Ashen Grip.
My NB, who I play with an actual Blade, uses Hundings Rage/Night Mother.
My Sorcerer uses Seducer/Night Mother.

I pick the sets I do to give me the attribute and stat bonuses I want. I could run all 2 and 3 piece sets, but I am better with 2 and 6 piece sets. I may do some Eyes of Mara for the Sorcerer on her next set.

Aett_Thorn

Like others, I don't see how this would be an improvement, it would just be a difference. You'd *** some people off while making others happier, but there's no way of knowing how many of each you'd have in-game. as such, it would be a huge risk for the Devs for possibly no gain whatsoever.

The current system gives the basic three playstyles (Tanking, Melee Damage, and Casters) some good options early, and other, more niche sets where people might be a hybrid of those three options come later. Since there will be more of the former, the system currently rewards the most amount of people early. Seems like it's set up right to me.

Chuggernaut

teladoy wrote: »

Example you want to craft a chest piece of the armor set X, you have researched with that piece only 2 traits, you can craft it, but you only receive 2 spell damage bonus. Lets suppose now you have 6 traits researched, you will receive 6 spell damage bonus. If you have the 8 traits researched then you will get 8 spell damage bonus.

I love this idea! All the sets are about the same strength, it would be nice if you are a master (8 or now 9 in all craftable items) to be be able to craft a higher bonus version of the armor. Currently the only way to juice up a set is to build it at a higher level/quality.

AlnilamE

teladoy wrote: »

But you guys are giving to me the reason some how.

@PBpsy
"The logic behind most ESO class/weapon skill and crafted set progression is that what is most generally useful unlocks early and what is somewhat niche or situational comes a bit later"

This is pure supposition, because this can only be decide by the person that is building his character. In my opinion the seducer set is the optimal, even at VR14 vs Eyes of Mara.

Why? because I use two weapons, resto and destruction, and I prefeer the 8% magicka reduction in all my skills and not a 12% magicka reduction in only my restoration staff abilities! hello???

Supouse that the Seducer set needs 8 traits and the Eyes of mara 3... how decides this? why one and not the other one? who says that 12% reduction in resto staff is more important than 8% reduction in all spells? the developers? the president of EEUU? SHOULD NOT BE THE PLAYER? because that says my logic, we are free to use the weapon we want, and do what we want.

You will pick the Seducer set, and if I'm gearing up as a non-templar healer, I will pick Eyes of Mara for the set bonus and add Seducer or Willow's Path.

I think the developers wanted to get away from the 2 trait = mostly useless / 8 trait = totally awesome scale.

It gives players the flexibility to customize their builds. What is right for you is not necessarily right for everyone else.

I agree that the 6-trait sets are mostly sufficient, but once you have researched 8 items, you can play around with different builds and see what works best for you.

teladoy

@AlnilamE‌

Eyes of Mara = 12% magicka reduction in resto staff.

Seducer set = 8% reduction in all spells!!!

Do you know how many resto skills I have in my bar? 2. Then are all templar restoration skills, that is not the same resto staff skills, and in my second bar all Dawn's Wrath + destruction staff.

Now explain me again that of sets with more traits are better... Because in my opinion sets with 8 traits are not better, are just different.

@Chuggernaut‌

I don't have all the answers, but I was thinking that sets with 2 traits would give less attributes than if with 8 . Then of course this would vary slightly depending the level of the armor and of course the upgrade, if blue, epic, yellow, etc.

Example you have a white medium chest piece lvl 20, you add spell damage.
2 traits researched = +2 spell damage. To blue = 3 spell damage.
6 traits researched = +6 spell damage. To blue = 7 spell damage.

This will make everybody wish to have or to buy the armor piece from someone thats has researched all the traits, that's a lot of work and dedication. So you can buy it, or say: ok I will do it, even if it takes work, but I want to do it.

Maybe this would made the piece very powerfull at low level.. but as said, I dont have all the answers.

Sharee

teladoy wrote: »

This will make everybody wish to have or to buy the armor piece from someone thats has researched all the traits...

Yes, and that's exactly what's wrong with it.

Current system makes both low-trait and high-trait crafters useful. The low-trait crafters are just limited to the low-trait sets, but if they craft them, those sets are perfectly fine.

Your system makes low-trait crafters useless, even for the low-trait sets, because everybody will wish to buy the armor piece from someone that researched all the traits, as you said above.

In short, this change would just concentrate all the crafting business in the hands of the people who have maxed their trait research, taking it away from those who have not. I don't see how this would be good for anyone but the maxed crafters.

teladoy

@Sharee‌

"In short, this change would just concentrate all the crafting business in the hands of the people who have maxed their trait research, taking it away from those who have not. I don't see how this would be good for anyone but the maxed crafters."


Exactly we need to do a sacrifice it does not matter which decision is taken.

This change would just concentrate all the crafting business in the hands of the people who have maxed their trait research, taking it away from those who have not

or

Like it is right now. People is not able to have the set their want and need because they need to have researched between 6 o 8 traits, which mean more than one week of research for each piece of armor. With the aggravating that they would need to research the traits by themselves or have to find someone else that has learn the 8 traits and pay, and I dont know how many people would be incentivate to do this, if for what they need are only 6 traits and they think that makes no sense continuing researching anymore.

Now put the two things in different extremes of the balance and let the logic pull down the right one.

Niebla

It's still worse for me the "trait thing" on dropped and pvp gear. Those "bounded" and useless traits on a lot of sets are annoying me and limitting my gear choice a lot. I'd prefer to re-trait that traits like enchants are re-enchanted. Specially on pvp sets. At least let the crafters be able to do that.

AlnilamE

teladoy wrote: »

@AlnilamE‌

Eyes of Mara = 12% magicka reduction in resto staff.

Seducer set = 8% reduction in all spells!!!

Do you know how many resto skills I have in my bar? 2. Then are all templar restoration skills, that is not the same resto staff skills, and in my second bar all Dawn's Wrath + destruction staff.

Now explain me again that of sets with more traits are better... Because in my opinion sets with 8 traits are not better, are just different.

I did not say they were better. I said they were useful for different people/specs.

I am a nightblade. I don't have a class restoration tree. If I am specced for healing, I will have resto staff skills and maybe a stamina ability if I need to off-dps, and I keep Impale on my bar for when bosses are low on health, but by then the reduction is not relevant because we are at the end of the battle.

So to me, Eyes of Mara would be more useful if I'm specced for healing (alternatively, Willow's Path for the 15% increased regen in combat - It's what I actually have right now, Willow's and Sanctuary).

I think in general, the 6-trait sets are more popular, but the 8-trait sets have their place. And the 2- and 3-trait sets are not useless, which is great.

Even if all you wanted to do in game was achieved by 2 or 3 trait sets, there is really no effort in showing up at a crafting station every once in a while and starting a research, so people will still end up researching all traits.