Further player character customization awareness thread

ForfiniteStories

I agree full-heartily. One issue I run into every time I create a character is chin height. It looks longer in Chargen than in game, and it isn't obvious. When I go in game, their jawline is broader and their chin is too close to the mouth. It annoys me that I have to play like this until this feature is added - I really don't want people to get the wrong impression as to what my character looks like, and I'd much rather feel like I'm playing my own character rather than someone else. I love my characters, and part of who they are is their very appearance. One of the main selling points of this game was character creation; let's enhance that feature even more.

Perhaps I should provide screenshots when I have the time..

AngryNord

Yes to hairstyle/beard/tattoo changes.
Indifferent to bodystyle changes.
Name change? Possibly, but should be Limited (either pay-per-use or once-only).
Race change? NO

Wing

hey thanks for keeping this going everyone ^_^

MornaBaine

phreatophile wrote: »

I would support hair and adornments , perhaps even the face sculptor like in Skyrim. Name change even, but race and gender should be locked.

I'm for changing anything that does not effect stats/mechanics. So no race or class changes but a sex change should be no big deal.

Misa

I'd love to be able to change my character appearance again and maybe have even more options to edit our character, some slides seems to barely change anything

MornaBaine

BETTER LIGHTING is desperately needed in the character creation screen. I'd also like to be able to get a better close up view of the face.

Winnower

I'd like extended sliders on all characteristics, particularly on girth and height. More variation would be greatly appreciated - if a *game* can't give me as much variation as RL then I find it lacking in imagination - a game should have
even more extremes.

I'd like to be able to "turn off" gear on any slot - I have avatars with extensive body markings provided by char.creation for heaven's sake.

I'd like to be able to tweak stuff physically; give it a long cooldown if necessary..

No name or racial changes please; though quest "enchantment" change via disguise for cosmetic purposes would be ok.

MornaBaine

There was a question asking about customization options and a barber shop on the Quakecon livesteam which you can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jk7LrLgRfg#t=5558
You can see it at aprox 1:48:40.

Sage's response:
He begins by saying they've been working on " ...a lot of different customization options for players."
The dye system is ONE such thing we've seen come in. I'd love to know that the "lots" of others are!
He then says, "The way I'd like to see this introduced is more of an RP mechanic where players can earn these and give them to each other."
He also says, "I think that's a fun thing for people to be able to do and so you know that's something that we're working on but I know the artists already have lots more customization options so absolutely it's coming it's just a matter of how and when."
Okayyyyy... so, um, we're going to be able to give each other haircuts??? What IS this mysterious "RP mechanic" to which he refers? Does Mr. Sage, in fact, know what RP IS? Because I'm really beginning to wonder! WHEN are we going to get some more news on this???? PLEASE let it be a topic that gets covered in the next ROAD AHEAD!

Wing

yeah I really didn't like the whole "players can give them to one another" next thing you know "WTS appearance change page 4, 50k gold, pst"

listen here Mr. Sage, some things should just be given to the players. its my character, let me make it look how I want it to.

MornaBaine

Wing wrote: »

yeah I really didn't like the whole "players can give them to one another" next thing you know "WTS appearance change page 4, 50k gold, pst"

listen here Mr. Sage, some things should just be given to the players. its my character, let me make it look how I want it to.

Oh so ALL of this! ^^

Cherryblossom

Wing wrote: »

one of the best ways to get the attention of Zos is obviously through threads on the forums. so lets please keep this thread going and I will continue to update and edit this post as people come up with or refine ideas.

Sorry your on the wrong forum, please try the Reddit Forum if you want ZOS to read this!
Just a suggestion!

chipputer

While I'm for a once-in-a-long-while-character-race-and-name-and-whatever-change-for-long-time-players, if that isn't possible I desperately want to be able to re-customize my character's face and body.

Believe it or not, I would actually like to add a scar, here or there, after I'm done with my questing, or add a beard once in a while (seriously, when do I have time to actually SHAVE between all of my questing and crafting and forced flirting with Naryu?). I started with one vision of my character. I've stuck to that as much as possible, but my experiences and gameplay have changed how I perceive my own character and I'd like to be able to edit his appearance to reflect that, at the very least.

EDIT: And for any who would read this and not understand how my perception of my own character can change, I point you to SorcererDave's LP of Skyrim. Contrast his perception of Claudius in chapter one versus his perception in the latest episodes. You'll understand then.

I believe it would help the game grow as it's a useful feature for anybody, RPer, powergamer, or whatever.

Wing

chipputer wrote: »

-snip-

I agree, as our character complete quests an experiences they change and grow mentally and physically like a real person, it would be awesome to be able to reflect that in game.

MrGhosty

I'm one for all types of customizations, players should even be able to change their race and class if they feel so inclined. Now there should be a cooldown or a pay-per-change mechanic to avoid fotm builds, but sometimes you level a main and you think they'll be one way and that isn't really how you want to play it anymore. Yes you can re roll but some of us don't have the time to level another character and don't really want to lose the progress we've made on that character.

I would limit it by making it so that if you change your class you start from the beginning, so it isn't like it'll be an easy change. I would personally be for this, I made a DragonKnight in early access thinking it would play one way, only to find out it didn't really mesh with my playstyle. This guy is my main crafter so every motif I've found and more has been spent on him, so it would be costly to just get rid of him. I'm also of the opinion that it's no one's business what I want to do with my character if you give options you should give all the options.

In addition to the other options mentioned by others, I would also like the ability to "merge" armors. Now this requires changing/adding models so I doubt it'll ever happen, but my character uses a mix of light and heavy armor and I would like to see the two sets be more in line with that aesthetic. For example, you could have the heavy plate but provide the option to turn off the mail underneath essentially making the armor "sleeveless" or combine a heavy and medium piece for a piecemeal look. Additionally, I would like to see armor degrade visibly over time. These two options would then give crafters more things to do, maybe you need to be a master crafter in order to combine the two, and when you want to get your armor polished and back to looking pristine you can take it to a crafter. The degradation would not be repaired via armor repair kit. I dunno bout ya'll but It kind of bothers me that my character has been to multiple realms of oblivion, fought and died countless times in battles all across tamriel and my suit of armor is still shiny and new.

The alternative to that degrading, is to allow the option to make higher tier armors but stick with the lower tier models. Early breton armor is dingy and dirty but as you level higher and higher it becomes pristine, in some cases I wouldn't mind sticking with the older model. Or the imperial heavy shoulders, give me the ability to change the shoulder pieces individually. Allow me to back track one to an earlier, smaller, model while leaving the other behemoth intact or switch both. In a game that has third person camera appearance is paramount and we need more fluidity in our character customization.

Also, I get they need new time sinks, but for stendarr's sake give us some new armor styles we can easily acquire to make customization with greater breadth from lvl1 to vet14.

NotSo

I think racial passives should be moot and be nothing more than increased skill xp gain, then players would focus more on aesthetics.

In lieu of in game hair salons, I would like more angles to view my character from before creation.

AureateRN

FFXIV ARR has character creation, modification, and wardrobe issues completely solved. It took them a long time to get there but once they did... it was well worth the wait. But I also love Elder Scrolls and want to see it continue to improve and grow...and succeed in the long term. This is going to be long so I will give each section a bold label. If you're not interested in that subject, skip it...or I suppose most of you will take a glance at this and skip it anyway. *grin*

PERCEIVED GOAL Unless the character creation, customization, and long term playability issues are looked at, people are going to say "forget this" ...or something along those lines. I completely understand that the idea is to force people to continue to create new characters (a process that can take OUTRAGEOUS amounts of time if you're a particularly immersive and/or stubborn perfectionist kind of person) thus spending exponentially increasing time (and subscription months) creating, leveling and replaying favored endgame content in each "new" role/body/class.

HOW TO IMPLEMENT This is especially true in those with MMO-ADD, who get tired of looking at the same character all the time and need to create several--of different classes in different locales just to keep themselves interested. At some point ZOS needs to stop looking at dollar signs and see this from the players' point of view. Actually I think people are MORE likely to do these things ZOS wants them to do if they offer more character customization/maintenance/immersion "perks"...but NOT on a cash and carry basis unless it was part of a larger expansion in which case the changes would have to knock my everlovin' socks off, and that expansion would have to be done in record time. They certainly left enough territory open for them. IMO the customizations/SOME of the REALISTIC options mentioned by the original writer should be earned as you progress through the game.

THE PERFECT SYSTEM Personally, I would not mind at all if male characters wore no chest pieces, and I really would like to make most gear invisible if desired, especially shoulders on females. Also, I really ADORE how FFXIV ARR allows you to give the stats of any gear you have earned to any piece of the same weight and type. PERFECTION! It truly emphasizes that it's the PERSON who wields the power, not the richness of her/his gear. Since CHILDREN are allowed to play this game, that is a very good message to send!

THAT 24-hour BUG As is they limit our ability to customize characters to a ridiculous one mess up, on ONE tiny little detail you'd like to be able to change once you see your character ingame (which looks completely different from how it looks in the character creation screen--which is probably "my" biggest frustration right now) every TWENTY FOUR HOURS! For example, I have been trying to find a way to make a Bosmer female, with the ONE attractive long hair choice, so her ears don't clip oddly through the hair. I have seen others with just the tips showing--so I know it's possible. Mine always look PERFECT in character creation then turn up in some physically impossible manner in the game, with weird gaps and clips and odd bits of ear flesh and hair intermingled. Makes me want to tear out my own hair!

Pre-loading Screen? Wouldn't it be nice to have a pre-load screen of how the ingame graphics will actually render your character ingame before that precious ONE in 24 hours chance is gone? I don't know if that would be harder or easier, but if the stated reason (preventing gold selling/botting) is true, it would be the perfect solution and keep players happy and subscribing.

NO FIX SOON Sadly this is all part of an overall character aesthetics situation ZOS has openly stated, repeatedly they have placed on the back burner while making some half-hearted half promises about vague features they "may" implement at a future date but definitely NOT soon. (check the recent patch notes) I love the idea of a barbershop-type thing, but females need FAR more aesthetic choices, including more natural/attractive face markings or even just a way to use more than one at a time for now. Females have always cherished "beauty"...even scarred ones. If we can have a 1990's style London "do" I cannot see why ANY natural LONG hair on either gender would be off limits. It is THE most REALISTIC hair possible. Not EVERYONE was bald or had the hair above their ears shaved away for the gods sake! That's just LAZINESS. Make more race-specific hairstyles rather than trying to make one hair model fit all men and mer when one of them is as extremely different in proportion as the Altmer (who would certainly agree they DESERVE their OWN coiffures and no doubt despise seeing their lesser kin and other races wearing "their" signature styles!) In a word-MORE! More choices, more pliability.

IMO we should get a limited number of chances, as with fantasia in FFXIV ARR, to change everything about our character, except that I would also include name since ZOS identifies us by account name in guilds anyway. If we change our class we have to restart from level 1, obviously, and have to store our items or lose them prior to the change...unless they did something really player-friendly like implemented housing, but now I'm REALLY dreaming.

At Least We Agree On Something... In my frustration over this I know I am far from alone. They've done a remarkable job improving in some areas since April in what amounts to a combination game and subscribing open beta period (where have I seen that before?). Dissatisfaction with character creation/modification is the one thing there seems to be general consensus upon when discussing the game. (A good FYI for when zone chat starts turning in a direction you find annoying... *smile*)

Happy Holidays everyone!

PS. Please don't hate on me for being picky about my character. I'm very thin skinned and overly sensitive. Pffft!

VirtualElizabeth

Hair, Hair, Hair! I get bored looking at the same style day after day and would definitely like to the ability to vary that now and then.

Also, I would love what some other games have when it comes to armor styles, particularly drops. I would love to have been able to transform the sun set from Breton robe to say a Khajiit shirt style for example.

AureateRN

AngryNord wrote: »

Yes to hairstyle/beard/tattoo changes.
Indifferent to bodystyle changes.
Name change? Possibly, but should be Limited (either pay-per-use or once-only).
Race change? NO

What is your reasoning? I'm not challenging you; I'm honestly curious. I've seen it work SO well in another game. It keeps things from getting stale and in cases where there's some kind of game infatuation thing going on people don't tend to change races, etc. without discussing it with their ingame SO, so... I don't understand the BOLD NO.

Could you explain this to me?

Also, why once only? Aren't they OUR characters? Do we not put the blood, sweat and tears into creating and leveling them? Do we (or our mommies and daddies in tooooooooooooooooooooooo many cases) not pay our subscription fees?

MornaBaine

AureateRN wrote: »

FFXIV ARR has character creation, modification, and wardrobe issues completely solved. It took them a long time to get there but once they did... it was well worth the wait. But I also love Elder Scrolls and want to see it continue to improve and grow...and succeed in the long term. This is going to be long so I will give each section a bold label. If you're not interested in that subject, skip it...or I suppose most of you will take a glance at this and skip it anyway. *grin*

PERCEIVED GOAL Unless the character creation, customization, and long term playability issues are looked at, people are going to say "forget this" ...or something along those lines. I completely understand that the idea is to force people to continue to create new characters (a process that can take OUTRAGEOUS amounts of time if you're a particularly immersive and/or stubborn perfectionist kind of person) thus spending exponentially increasing time (and subscription months) creating, leveling and replaying favored endgame content in each "new" role/body/class.

HOW TO IMPLEMENT This is especially true in those with MMO-ADD, who get tired of looking at the same character all the time and need to create several--of different classes in different locales just to keep themselves interested. At some point ZOS needs to stop looking at dollar signs and see this from the players' point of view. Actually I think people are MORE likely to do these things ZOS wants them to do if they offer more character customization/maintenance/immersion "perks"...but NOT on a cash and carry basis unless it was part of a larger expansion in which case the changes would have to knock my everlovin' socks off, and that expansion would have to be done in record time. They certainly left enough territory open for them. IMO the customizations/SOME of the REALISTIC options mentioned by the original writer should be earned as you progress through the game.

THE PERFECT SYSTEM Personally, I would not mind at all if male characters wore no chest pieces, and I really would like to make most gear invisible if desired, especially shoulders on females. Also, I really ADORE how FFXIV ARR allows you to give the stats of any gear you have earned to any piece of the same weight and type. PERFECTION! It truly emphasizes that it's the PERSON who wields the power, not the richness of her/his gear. Since CHILDREN are allowed to play this game, that is a very good message to send!

THAT 24-hour BUG As is they limit our ability to customize characters to a ridiculous one mess up, on ONE tiny little detail you'd like to be able to change once you see your character ingame (which looks completely different from how it looks in the character creation screen--which is probably "my" biggest frustration right now) every TWENTY FOUR HOURS! For example, I have been trying to find a way to make a Bosmer female, with the ONE attractive long hair choice, so her ears don't clip oddly through the hair. I have seen others with just the tips showing--so I know it's possible. Mine always look PERFECT in character creation then turn up in some physically impossible manner in the game, with weird gaps and clips and odd bits of ear flesh and hair intermingled. Makes me want to tear out my own hair!

Pre-loading Screen? Wouldn't it be nice to have a pre-load screen of how the ingame graphics will actually render your character ingame before that precious ONE in 24 hours chance is gone? I don't know if that would be harder or easier, but if the stated reason (preventing gold selling/botting) is true, it would be the perfect solution and keep players happy and subscribing.

NO FIX SOON Sadly this is all part of an overall character aesthetics situation ZOS has openly stated, repeatedly they have placed on the back burner while making some half-hearted half promises about vague features they "may" implement at a future date but definitely NOT soon. (check the recent patch notes) I love the idea of a barbershop-type thing, but females need FAR more aesthetic choices, including more natural/attractive face markings or even just a way to use more than one at a time for now. Females have always cherished "beauty"...even scarred ones. If we can have a 1990's style London "do" I cannot see why ANY natural LONG hair on either gender would be off limits. It is THE most REALISTIC hair possible. Not EVERYONE was bald or had the hair above their ears shaved away for the gods sake! That's just LAZINESS. Make more race-specific hairstyles rather than trying to make one hair model fit all men and mer when one of them is as extremely different in proportion as the Altmer (who would certainly agree they DESERVE their OWN coiffures and no doubt despise seeing their lesser kin and other races wearing "their" signature styles!) In a word-MORE! More choices, more pliability.

IMO we should get a limited number of chances, as with fantasia in FFXIV ARR, to change everything about our character, except that I would also include name since ZOS identifies us by account name in guilds anyway. If we change our class we have to restart from level 1, obviously, and have to store our items or lose them prior to the change...unless they did something really player-friendly like implemented housing, but now I'm REALLY dreaming.

At Least We Agree On Something... In my frustration over this I know I am far from alone. They've done a remarkable job improving in some areas since April in what amounts to a combination game and subscribing open beta period (where have I seen that before?). Dissatisfaction with character creation/modification is the one thing there seems to be general consensus upon when discussing the game. (A good FYI for when zone chat starts turning in a direction you find annoying... *smile*)

Happy Holidays everyone!

PS. Please don't hate on me for being picky about my character. I'm very thin skinned and overly sensitive. Pffft!

I, your fellow wall-of-text Queen, salute you! And yes, I made it all the way through and I completely agree with you! The lighting is SO BAD in character creation and we really need to be able to get a bigger face close up view!

The make-up for women drives me mad. We have "goth girl" with black eyeliner AND black lipstick (and because the eyeliner looks fantastic I use this even though I really don't like the black lipstick) and one 1990's Glamour magazine look with ridiculous reddish eyeshadow and matching lipstick. Most of the other makeup selections all have this weird pale super shiny bubble gum pink lip gloss. Yeah, that look was big in the early 90's and late 80's as well. There is ONE beautiful lip color that is deep and not too shiny, Junior High School girl lip gloss-looking. But it has virtually NO eye makeup. Why on earth in 2014 am I NOT able to choose lip color and eye makeup separately???? And if you're NOT going to do THAT ZOS then you really need to crack the whip on your artists and put them to work on a LOT MORE makeup combinations! Maybe have them check out some of the modding/custom content communities for the Sims and no, I'm not kidding!

And ZOS, you can give us Jason Leavy's hair. In fact, I DEMAND that you give us Jason Leavy's hair! LOL But so help me, you put even ONE more MOHAWK variation in there and I WILL summon Daedra to your offices! Give us more LONG hair for men and women!

Wing

it was funny I was telling someone today about everything in update 1.6 (as there is quite a bit) and when I got done I looked at them all excited waiting for there reaction and they said. . .

"is there a barber yet?"

. . .and to that I had to reply in a solemn tone and head lowered "no"

and we each shared a sigh, I only hope with the launch of the champion and justice system that they have been working so hard on we can finally see some more effort put on character customization.

this is a big thing in both TES and MMO's and I know a lot of us would love to see them put some effort into it.

Kesstryl

Three words - Character Selection Screen. Why not just allow players the ability to access parts of the character creation at login to tweak their appearances? I'm not talking about major things like changing race and such, just being able to tweak the sliders and change hair color and style, or grow a beard, or add a scar (so much roleplayability with being able to add scars for higher level characters). In-game barbers would be great, but in an effort to avoid a lot of programming, just add parts of the char creation system at char selection so we can fix things that are bothering us.

MornaBaine

Kesstryl wrote: »

Three words - Character Selection Screen. Why not just allow players the ability to access parts of the character creation at login to tweak their appearances? I'm not talking about major things like changing race and such, just being able to tweak the sliders and change hair color and style, or grow a beard, or add a scar (so much roleplayability with being able to add scars for higher level characters). In-game barbers would be great, but in an effort to avoid a lot of programming, just add parts of the char creation system at char selection so we can fix things that are bothering us.

This would be so easy for them to do. And they could even do it in a really fun way. Place a Mage in each starter zone (so all levels can access it) that you can go to and when you click on them they give you the option to purchase a "life changing experience." Then POOF! you are back in character creation and can change anything but race and class. I always exclude those because they effect stats and MAY cause problems. But otherwise, name, even sex, and every single physical detail should be up for grabs. None of those things affect gameplay in any way so there's no reason to disallow them. Go ahead and make it a gold sink on par with respeccing even. Everything they need is already part of the game. All they need to do is make it accessible.

Leijona

Face sculptor has already been mentioned by the devs and Paul Sage want it to be something social, whatever that means.

There is not really a lore reason why race changes don't make sense. Those who picked a name that fits their race, would allmost certainly not change their race, as they picked race and name by purpose. With all the others ... who cares if an orc is called "angelfire" or a breton?

Wing

Leijona wrote: »

Face sculptor has already been mentioned by the devs and Paul Sage want it to be something social, whatever that means.

this worries me SOOO much. there is no need or reason to make customizing our character the way WE want them to look a "social experience".

OUR character is the method by witch we the player interact with the narrative, and the way we do that as well as its appearance should be left up to we the player and we alone (within the confines of the rules of the game of course)

they have already chosen to add an in game economy around purely cosmetic options (motif's) and I am still iffy about that one.

I swear if I see "WTS appearance change page 6, 60k, pst" Zeni will rue the day I tell you. that is not fun, not in the slightest. some things (especially cosmetic things) should just be accessible to the players without a hassle and grind involved.

could you imagine if you had to find "skill point reset pages" in the world, silly.

Enaijo

Wing wrote: »

I swear if I see "WTS appearance change page 6, 60k, pst" Zeni will rue the day I tell you. that is not fun for me, not in the slightest.

If it would be something easy like that, the sculptor would already be in the game.

Wing wrote: »

could you imagine if you had to find "skill point reset pages" in the world, silly.

I like the idea ... if I had the choice to pay "the game" for the reset or a player, I would always chose the last option, because I like it "social"

MornaBaine

Enaijo wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I swear if I see "WTS appearance change page 6, 60k, pst" Zeni will rue the day I tell you. that is not fun for me, not in the slightest.

If it would be something easy like that, the sculptor would already be in the game.

)

I fail to see how it would be terribly difficult for them to let us return to the character creation screen with an existing character and change anything we wanted EXCEPT Race and Class. I am not against race or class changes per se but as these attributes ARE attached to stats they therefore entail a lot more coding and could be problematical. So I don't see a problem with restricting appearance change to exclude them.

Heruthema

I have a hard time understanding why this was not part of the game from the beginning and why there is so much resistance to it. I agree that Race and Class should be excluded but everything else including name change should be a normal part of the game.
I am also perplexed as to why ZOS keeps stalling on this. If they are trying to find a creative way to add it, stop please. Just add it to the player selection menu. It does not have to be a place I go to in the game. Please just add it. The creation program is just a module in the overall program. Allow players to re-enter the creation screen sans Race and Class and change what they want prior to entering the game. Quit trying to be cleaver and creative.

Aoife32001

MornaBaine wrote: »

AureateRN wrote: »

-snip-

I second both of you.

Also, I agree with several others on here that it is concerning that there is talk of making character editing a "social feature". I just want to tweak my character when I want--I don't want to have to buy an item or utilize a service from another player to be able to do so...

The fact that they want to make character customization a "social/RP" feature tells me, however, that it will likely be limited only to hair/makeup at a minimum and, at a maximum, "face sculpting". This is unfortunate, because it will be very limited. I really see no reason not to allow players to change their characters in ways that have no impact on other players.

If character editing were not social/RP-related, then we would have more freedom to do what we want, because it wouldn't be necessary to fit it into the game world. I don't need an in-game explanation for how my character's cheek bones became lower or how I gained an inch of height... Just let us make those changes without having to shoe-horn them into the story...

If ZOS is determined to make this "social", just add hair barbers and make-up artists, and leave the rest of the character editing to the individual players, outside of the game world (like at the character-selection screen, for example).

Heishi

phreatophile wrote: »

I would support hair and adornments , perhaps even the face sculptor like in Skyrim. Name change even, but race and gender should be locked.

Honestly I feel like hairstyles are probably the #1 most important customization option. This is why games like Skyrim have mods with like 100+ hairstyles.

Some more variety in the tattoos would be good too.

Heruthema

AGAIN ZOS just allow character changes at the Character Selection page. This is NOT rocket science. ALLOW changes to everything except RACE and CLASS. How does this change the game for anyone except in a positive way. Why are we having discussions on whether hair or face or tattoos or this or that can be changed. It is pointless, JUST ADD THE FEATURE in the CHARACTER SELECTION Menu.

/rant over