God of Schemes: is Scaling working properly?

Nebthet78

I have a question, due to the new scaling, the Main Quest is now scaled up to be at your level.

So is the quest/dungeon scaling properly when you die a bunch of times and can't finish the quest, or are you stuck trying to do it at your level over and over again, making you essentially screwed since you can't bring in outside help?

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌

Syntse

These solo quests should notice if you are struggling and should become easier. However I have not seen any real evidence of it so it is just based on what the devs have said.

Nebthet78

I don't think it is working... I am testing it and I have let myself die 25 times (removed my armour first) and nothing in the battle has changed.. They are still VR2 with all the upgrades to match. My sorcerer stand no chance of doing anything to him because "Target is too powerful for that"

Nihil

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I don't think it is working... I am testing it and I have let myself die 25 times (removed my armour first) and nothing in the battle has changed.. They are still VR2 with all the upgrades to match. My sorcerer stand no chance of doing anything to him because "Target is too powerful for that"

the "target is to powerful for that" wont go away even with downscaling if it does happen. That is basically just telling you that the boss is immune to the type of CC you are trying to use on him.

Nebthet78

Nihil wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I don't think it is working... I am testing it and I have let myself die 25 times (removed my armour first) and nothing in the battle has changed.. They are still VR2 with all the upgrades to match. My sorcerer stand no chance of doing anything to him because "Target is too powerful for that"

the "target is to powerful for that" wont go away even with downscaling if it does happen. That is basically just telling you that the boss is immune to the type of CC you are trying to use on him.

Yeah I know that... known that for a long time.... it means also that most of my attacks are absolutely useless, which means pure sorcerer builds are gonna have a damned time with this guy.

Epona222

I never managed to do that fight even pre-level-scaling by doing it the way I would 'normally' do a fight. Equip a resto staff, and alternate heavy attacks (which replenish your magicka) with healing yourself (put a point in resto if you don't have a class based self-heal) while side-stepping out of the red circles. It can take a while, but that method works.

Nebthet78

I have no points in resto at all and no resto staff .... I did this battle with my other builds with no problem what so ever.. even my nightblade used a destruction staff and while the battle was long, it was doable.. now with the scaling, this character is SOL...

I am also finding it really strange, but once the red circle starts forming, my movement rate goes down to a crawl and I can't use the dodge feature because I am using a controller to play due to the tremours in my hands..

Lionxoft

You're a sorc. Set up some crit chance and run crit surge and heal yourself for thousands per second. This fight is probably the easiest in the game for any and all classes due to the buff you receive.

Also, your block will reflect fireballs in the fight.

Nihil

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I don't think it is working... I am testing it and I have let myself die 25 times (removed my armour first) and nothing in the battle has changed.. They are still VR2 with all the upgrades to match. My sorcerer stand no chance of doing anything to him because "Target is too powerful for that"

the "target is to powerful for that" wont go away even with downscaling if it does happen. That is basically just telling you that the boss is immune to the type of CC you are trying to use on him.

Yeah I know that... known that for a long time.... it means also that most of my attacks are absolutely useless, which means pure sorcerer builds are gonna have a damned time with this guy.

o sorry, how you phrased it led me to believe wrong. I wish I remembered how I dealt with him but that was forever ago on my sorc. I believe it was largely due to critical surge and I think I used a bow.... yea been to long sorry.

Nebthet78

Lionxoft wrote: »

You're a sorc. Set up some crit chance and run crit surge and heal yourself for thousands per second. This fight is probably the easiest in the game for any and all classes due to the buff you receive.

Also, your block will reflect fireballs in the fight.

Have you done this fight since it's been scaled???

I need some advice from people who have done this fight since it has been scaled, preferably people who were in the VR levels...

But either way, dying is having no affect on the difficulty.. it hasn't even gone down a VR Level to compensate for the 35 deaths.

Master_Fluff

Yes, the dungeon scaling works in the fight against Molag Bal. I was VR1 and his health was 44*** (close to 45000, actually) . I didn't manage to do much damage (25% or so) to him in round 1 before I was dead. Round 2 was better, Molag now had 436** health and I got him down to 10% and on his knees, but his last attack did me in. Round 3 began with him still on his knees and still with round 2 health (odd, that). He didn't get up until I had done 10% damage. I also noticed that in this round each bowshot (no actionbar skills used, only mouseclick attack) did 1% damage. But it was still a long fight.

Nebthet78

I don't use add-ons so I have no idea what health he has, all I know is the number of times I hit him with the damage he does and what is taken, none of it changes for me at all. Most I can get him down to is to the Titans and that is it. If I am lucky I get past them for a couple of hits, if not they kill me.

Epona222

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes, the dungeon scaling works in the fight against Molag Bal. I was VR1 and his health was 44*** (close to 45000, actually) . I didn't manage to do much damage (25% or so) to him in round 1 before I was dead. Round 2 was better, Molag now had 436** health and I got him down to 10% and on his knees, but his last attack did me in. Round 3 began with him still on his knees and still with round 2 health (odd, that). He didn't get up until I had done 10% damage. I also noticed that in this round each bowshot (no actionbar skills used, only mouseclick attack) did 1% damage. But it was still a long fight.

I think that is useful info, however VR1 has always been the same as lvl 50 (as soon as you hit lvl 50, your character goes to VR1), I think the vast majority of us probably did that fight at VR1, which is in effect, the correct level for the fight. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has done it at VR3 or higher yet, to see how it scales up.

brandon

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I don't use add-ons so I have no idea what health he has, all I know is the number of times I hit him with the damage he does and what is taken, none of it changes for me at all. Most I can get him down to is to the Titans and that is it. If I am lucky I get past them for a couple of hits, if not they kill me.

I know you're a sorc, but try bringing a shield with you and use it to block the attacks the titans send at you. They will die in a few hits from it.

brandon

Epona222 wrote: »

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes, the dungeon scaling works in the fight against Molag Bal. I was VR1 and his health was 44*** (close to 45000, actually) . I didn't manage to do much damage (25% or so) to him in round 1 before I was dead. Round 2 was better, Molag now had 436** health and I got him down to 10% and on his knees, but his last attack did me in. Round 3 began with him still on his knees and still with round 2 health (odd, that). He didn't get up until I had done 10% damage. I also noticed that in this round each bowshot (no actionbar skills used, only mouseclick attack) did 1% damage. But it was still a long fight.

I think that is useful info, however VR1 has always been the same as lvl 50 (as soon as you hit lvl 50, your character goes to VR1), I think the vast majority of us probably did that fight at VR1, which is in effect, the correct level for the fight. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has done it at VR3 or higher yet, to see how it scales up.

Can you do it at those levels? I know you can at vr1, but i thought you had to beat Molag bal to be able to go to the other zones right? I'm pretty sure there is noway to get enough xp to reach vr3 before that.

Epona222

brandon wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I don't use add-ons so I have no idea what health he has, all I know is the number of times I hit him with the damage he does and what is taken, none of it changes for me at all. Most I can get him down to is to the Titans and that is it. If I am lucky I get past them for a couple of hits, if not they kill me.

I know you're a sorc, but try bringing a shield with you and use it to block the attacks the titans send at you. They will die in a few hits from it.

You can block the Titans with a staff, just hold down RMB (or whatever you have mapped as block if you changed it) and they will die really quickly, you don't need a shield to block them - thanks to the massive buff you get before the fight, you will be more effective at blocking with a broken twig than you ever will be with a shield in the entire rest of the game.

smee_z

brandon wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes, the dungeon scaling works in the fight against Molag Bal. I was VR1 and his health was 44*** (close to 45000, actually) . I didn't manage to do much damage (25% or so) to him in round 1 before I was dead. Round 2 was better, Molag now had 436** health and I got him down to 10% and on his knees, but his last attack did me in. Round 3 began with him still on his knees and still with round 2 health (odd, that). He didn't get up until I had done 10% damage. I also noticed that in this round each bowshot (no actionbar skills used, only mouseclick attack) did 1% damage. But it was still a long fight.

I think that is useful info, however VR1 has always been the same as lvl 50 (as soon as you hit lvl 50, your character goes to VR1), I think the vast majority of us probably did that fight at VR1, which is in effect, the correct level for the fight. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has done it at VR3 or higher yet, to see how it scales up.

Can you do it at those levels? I know you can at vr1, but i thought you had to beat Molag bal to be able to go to the other zones right? I'm pretty sure there is noway to get enough xp to reach vr3 before that.

Yes. VR areas aren't the only way to level. There's also PvP.

I think I fought Molag-Bal pre-scaling at VR6.

Nebthet78

brandon wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes, the dungeon scaling works in the fight against Molag Bal. I was VR1 and his health was 44*** (close to 45000, actually) . I didn't manage to do much damage (25% or so) to him in round 1 before I was dead. Round 2 was better, Molag now had 436** health and I got him down to 10% and on his knees, but his last attack did me in. Round 3 began with him still on his knees and still with round 2 health (odd, that). He didn't get up until I had done 10% damage. I also noticed that in this round each bowshot (no actionbar skills used, only mouseclick attack) did 1% damage. But it was still a long fight.

I think that is useful info, however VR1 has always been the same as lvl 50 (as soon as you hit lvl 50, your character goes to VR1), I think the vast majority of us probably did that fight at VR1, which is in effect, the correct level for the fight. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has done it at VR3 or higher yet, to see how it scales up.

Can you do it at those levels? I know you can at vr1, but i thought you had to beat Molag bal to be able to go to the other zones right? I'm pretty sure there is noway to get enough xp to reach vr3 before that.

You can grind in Coldharbour to get more XP to reach VR3 before ever going into to finish the main quest or get to the next area.

That is why I am asking about this particularly because I am VR2 and I remembered VR enemies got boosted damage and HP at those levels, even though they are suppose to technically be level 50 crap that is spewed to us. So with this scaling, the enemies are also getting that additional boost and you are not actually fighting them at their level 50 original level.

In the past, before the scaling update, you could do that, but not now it seems.

brandon

Epona222 wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I don't use add-ons so I have no idea what health he has, all I know is the number of times I hit him with the damage he does and what is taken, none of it changes for me at all. Most I can get him down to is to the Titans and that is it. If I am lucky I get past them for a couple of hits, if not they kill me.

I know you're a sorc, but try bringing a shield with you and use it to block the attacks the titans send at you. They will die in a few hits from it.

You can block the Titans with a staff, just hold down RMB (or whatever you have mapped as block if you changed it) and they will die really quickly, you don't need a shield to block them - thanks to the massive buff you get before the fight, you will be more effective at blocking with a broken twig than you ever will be with a shield in the entire rest of the game.

I don't use staffs so i didn't know that, but thanks for letting me know.

Yes. VR areas aren't the only way to level. There's also PvP.

I think I fought Molag-Bal pre-scaling at VR6.

Interesting, i had no idea.

You can grind in Coldharbour to get more XP to reach VR3 before ever going into to finish the main quest or get to the next area.

That is why I am asking about this particularly because I am VR2 and I remembered VR enemies got boosted damage and HP at those levels, even though they are suppose to technically be level 50 crap that is spewed to us. So with this scaling, the enemies are also getting that additional boost and you are not actually fighting them at their level 50 original level.

In the past, before the scaling update, you could do that, but not now it seems.

I've been playing this game for months and i had no idea (didn't think of doing what you did anyway) that you could hit higher vr levels before leaving Coldharbour.

Nebthet78

brandon wrote: »

I've been playing this game for months and i had no idea (didn't think of doing what you did anyway) that you could hit higher vr levels before leaving Coldharbour.

You just can't do access Cadwell's Silver or Gold, or the other factions before finishing the Main Storyline quest.

So I guess this ends up being a warning for people to be careful and just do the quest at level 50 or sooner because it seems Scaling gets bugged when doing it at VR levels.. at least VR2 where it won't downscale at all. Not even with 50 deaths. You'd think it would scale down to Level 50 levels or below by then.

Epona222

brandon wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Yes, the dungeon scaling works in the fight against Molag Bal. I was VR1 and his health was 44*** (close to 45000, actually) . I didn't manage to do much damage (25% or so) to him in round 1 before I was dead. Round 2 was better, Molag now had 436** health and I got him down to 10% and on his knees, but his last attack did me in. Round 3 began with him still on his knees and still with round 2 health (odd, that). He didn't get up until I had done 10% damage. I also noticed that in this round each bowshot (no actionbar skills used, only mouseclick attack) did 1% damage. But it was still a long fight.

I think that is useful info, however VR1 has always been the same as lvl 50 (as soon as you hit lvl 50, your character goes to VR1), I think the vast majority of us probably did that fight at VR1, which is in effect, the correct level for the fight. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has done it at VR3 or higher yet, to see how it scales up.

Can you do it at those levels? I know you can at vr1, but i thought you had to beat Molag bal to be able to go to the other zones right? I'm pretty sure there is noway to get enough xp to reach vr3 before that.

Technically, you can hit max at VR14 before taking on Molag Bal - you can earn XP by PvPing or doing PvE daily quests in Cyrodil at any level (as long as you can survive), you can also go to Craglorn as soon as you hit VR1 without ever finishing the main quest (I did something like 3/5 of the lower Craglorn main quests before going back to fight MB and finish the main story, which in theory means that I could have just used mobs in Craglorn to gind from VR1 to VR14, I didn't because I don't find that fun, but it is perfectly feasible). So yes, it is very possible to do that fight at max level.

Edit: my apologies for editing this several times, it's just I'm a bit picky about spelling, grammar, and sentence structure, and keep seeing those sorts of mistakes in my post - I haven't changed the substance of it, just correcting a few errors.

brandon

Nebthet78 wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

I've been playing this game for months and i had no idea (didn't think of doing what you did anyway) that you could hit higher vr levels before leaving Coldharbour.

You just can't do access Cadwell's Silver or Gold, or the other factions before finishing the Main Storyline quest.

So I guess this ends up being a warning for people to be careful and just do the quest at level 50 or sooner because it seems Scaling gets bugged when doing it at VR levels.. at least VR2 where it won't downscale at all. Not even with 50 deaths. You'd think it would scale down to Level 50 levels or below by then.

Hopefully Zenimax fixes this if this in fact a bug, so that the people who have trouble with it can finish it.

Technically, you can hit max at VR14 before taking on Molag Bal - you can earn XP by PvPing in Cyrodil, you can also go to Craglorn as soon as you hit VR1 without ever finishing the main quest (I did something like 3/5 of the lower Craglorn main quests before going back to finish the main story, which (although I didn't, that is not fun for me) in theory means that I could have just used mobs to grind from VR1 to VR14 before facing Molag Bal). So yes, it is very possible to do that fight at a higher level.

I probably will never grind levels before finishing the main quest. It just seems a lot easier finishing the quests in vr content rather than killing 1 trillion (yes i know that's exaggerated) different mobs for 1 level.

Enodoc

Nebthet78 wrote: »

But either way, dying is having no affect on the difficulty.. it hasn't even gone down a VR Level to compensate for the 35 deaths.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

So I guess this ends up being a warning for people to be careful and just do the quest at level 50 or sooner because it seems Scaling gets bugged when doing it at VR levels.. at least VR2 where it won't downscale at all. Not even with 50 deaths. You'd think it would scale down to Level 50 levels or below by then.

The stated level of the enemies won't change, but their max health and damage output should decrease.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I don't think it is working... I am testing it and I have let myself die 25 times (removed my armour first) and nothing in the battle has changed.. They are still VR2 with all the upgrades to match. My sorcerer stand no chance of doing anything to him because "Target is too powerful for that"

Attacks where the "Target is too powerful for that" should still do their base damage, they just won't apply any status effects.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I am also finding it really strange, but once the red circle starts forming, my movement rate goes down to a crawl and I can't use the dodge feature because I am using a controller to play due to the tremours in my hands..

Some red circles have reduced speed effects in them, so the only viable way out is by dodging. You should be able to map dodge to a single controller button (eg, left shoulder), so that moving in that direction and tapping the assigned button performs a dodge without needing to "double tap in the direction of movement".

nerevarine1138

Yeah, I don't think your level has anything to do with it. If you haven't figured out a bind for your dodge, you need to do that. The fight relies almost exclusively on dodging and blocking. Scaling won't change that.

Epona222

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Yeah, I don't think your level has anything to do with it. If you haven't figured out a bind for your dodge, you need to do that. The fight relies almost exclusively on dodging and blocking. Scaling won't change that.

^ this, I use ordinary office-type keyboard and mouse, and I put dodge on my middle mouse button, it works a treat.

Tonnopesce

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I have no points in resto at all and no resto staff .... I did this battle with my other builds with no problem what so ever.. even my nightblade used a destruction staff and while the battle was long, it was doable.. now with the scaling, this character is SOL...

I am also finding it really strange, but once the red circle starts forming, my movement rate goes down to a crawl and I can't use the dodge feature because I am using a controller to play due to the tremours in my hands..

Hey i give you a tip... I also use a controller to play due to my console background , you can deativate the double tap for doge and set a button of the keyboard for doge, i personally use"y" since is not assigned to nothing important .
When you have done this you can set the new button to the controller and then..... Bam no more doge problems

poodlemasterb16_ESO

I made it through that little test although I completely screwed up my readiness for it. I had been drinking a bit, scotch of course, in my case..

I went through at stage 4 with the wrong potions. I kited the fool for a long time and my Clanfear did about half the damage done and I made it to the big sword effect. My only real strength in that fight was my ability to run away. I'm real good at that. Block the Titans and you are done really. His tell for the teleport attack is huge and he hits like a puppy anyway.

Nestor

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Yeah I know that... known that for a long time.... it means also that most of my attacks are absolutely useless, which means pure sorcerer builds are gonna have a damned time with this guy.

When I took my Sorcerer through this one, I had to abandon the staff, and only use two of my sorc skills. Critical Surge and Boundless Storm with the Speed Boost Morph and then used a Bow to whittle him down. I used no sorcerer skills on the boss at all, every time I did, I was hit. When I tried to use the staff or the spells in the fight I was killed. I kept up CS and BS and spammed light attacks with the bow and prevailed.

I know I went against type with my character, but it was the third character I was taking through that fight and I just wanted it over with.

Nebthet78

It's kinda sad that I have to basically abandon my class and use bow and stuff for this fight. I have no stuff in Critical Surge or Boundless Storm... not skills I wanted to use any ways as I had no interest in PVP...

I frigging solo'd Village of the Lost by myself (which when I did die, the enemies did lower level after 2)... and I can't even do Bal with the same skills, as you said Nestor, use the staff he hits, try to use a spell he hits.. This is my third character I am taking through this fight too... I also just want it to be over with.

Nebthet78

Note of Interest:

Signed in to continue trying to defeat Bal today.... I found myself back outside the Harbourage, so I had to redo that whole quest from the beginning.

First thing I noticed: It was much easier right from the beginning.

The bug I had that prevented me from attacking Falcou, Aelif and the Duchess was not there this time, so I was able to do that.

The final fight with Molag Bal was also much easier. He didn't hit me as hard as he was last night, meaning I was able to keep up with heals and widdle away at him using my destruction staff (Purple) 107damage+44cold damage.
This time I got through the fight without any issues or even dying!!

Am thinking someone reset my instance or fixed something.

Lithium Flower

This weekend, I am going to attempt this fight for the first time ever on my VR14 DK. I'll let you know all know how it goes.