Undaunted Dalies Feedback

timidobserver

The good:
This was an excellent decision. Whoever came up with it should be given a raise or promotion. Without creating any new content or zones or expending a ton of resources, you significantly increased the actively played content in the game. Suddenly a bunch of obsolete dungeons are now viable for the entire player base including endgame players. In the future you should aim to build longevity into all content just like this from the start. There should be a reason to keep doing it into the future.

Things that can be improved and suggestions:
1. As many other MMOs have learned, open-ended rewards that the player could potentially never get are a bad thing. As it stands, a player could do their daily every single day for five years and technically never get the item they are seeking. Statistically this is unlikely, but it does have a small chance of happening.

I get the impression that you don’t want to do a token system just because it is so mainstream, so the alternative is what I will call a milestone system. The player gets a large selections of gear after every x dailies or x undaunted experience. They are able to pick one from the large selection they are given. So for example, the players gets to choose between 8 or 9 shoulders of different material(light, medium, heavy) every X dailies completed or every X amount of undaunted reputation earned.

2. I personally like the new difficulty, but you left a large amount of the player base out by raising the minimum difficulty of all dungeons higher than some people are capable of getting through without becoming frustrated. There are a number of ways to go about fixing this:

A. You can add a casual mode toggle that decreases the dungeon difficulty but also decreases the quality of the gear and the amount of undaunted xp.
B. Alternatively the casual mode toggle could increase the stats and damage reduction of the players in the group by 20% or so. This would probably be easier because you could just copy and paste and then tweak the pvp buff that everyone gets for going into pvp.
C. You can add a level slider that allows the group to decide what level the dungeon will be.

3. If you implement my suggestion in step one, people will be more likely to get the gear they want. In order to make sure the daily system remains viable and desirable into the future, I would refresh the undaunted gear every 3-6 months with new sets and bonuses.

So for example, currently there is no undaunted jewelry, so add a couple of 2-3 piece undaunted jewelry sets to the dungeon rewards around February of next year.

ThatHappyCat

With regards to getting the gear you want, my thought is: don't make things bound on pickup. Let us trade everything.

Magdalina

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

With regards to getting the gear you want, my thought is: don't make things bound on pickup. Let us trade everything.

Tbh, I don't really like this idea. While ESO rng hates me(on my very first vet pledge I got Engine Guardian Epaulets...after that I ran vet DC about 10-15 times in hopes of getting the helm, but my hopes were in vain. It seems everyone has gotten that helm by now BUT me. I've run every single vet dungeon several times since 1.5 and I still have 0 heads), I kind of like the idea of gear being exclusive to players who can beat the newly challenging content. It has special looks, special cool effects and it's even more special because you can't just go and buy it. If anyone could just save 99999 g and go buy it, that'd kinda destroy the idea.

Maybe that could be partially solved by making gear trade-able at least between party members or something though. Like, if a groupmate of mine gets something he doesn't need but I do, yet I got unlucky, would be cool if he could share it.

To OP - seeing how ESO rng still hates me, I kind of approve of the less rng idea, though I dunno how it would work out in the end.

Also, I completely agree that dailies were a great idea, I see so many people running dungeons nonstop now, even some of the PvP crowd who'd never gotten out of Cyro before, and some of the top players who'd gotten bored of redoing dungeons 100th time a long time ago, it's awesome.

However, I think dungeon scaling needs some tweaking. They have obviously been buffed all at once instead of individually considering each fight, making for drastically uneven experience. Wayrest is still rather easy even with an unexperienced team. Elden is about the same. Imril in BC and Praxin in Spindle are a complete nightmare. They're more difficult than final bosses of said dungeons, they're more difficult than any other boss I've encountered in ESO. Yes, they're still doable, but it just doesn't make sense that there's such a drastic difference between bosses that used to be about equal in terms of difficulty.

I also think bosses could use less HP, especially some of them. It's fun and challenging while you figure their mechanics and get used to following them, but it stops being that when you just have to repeat it over and over and over again and wonder when this thing is finally gonna die. Such big health pools don't make it more challenging(since you're doing to learn to follow mechanic at like 1/3 the pool at most or wipe, after that it's all rinse and repeat), they only make it more tedious and annoying.

On a vaguely related note, I'd still like to get the Undaunted experience that I'd earned prior to 1.5 back. There's no reason for us to not be backcredited for what others can do now AND get the points we can't get anymore.

timidobserver

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

With regards to getting the gear you want, my thought is: don't make things bound on pickup. Let us trade everything.

No because the market will be flooded with it in a day and there will again be no reason to do the dungeons. I am fine with just adding some kind of expanded reward selection after you have done your dailies for while.

Armitas

I love the dailies. I look forward to doing them everyday and I'm a bit sad when all the fun is over. I have some improvements to them as well.

• It is easy to find a group in zone for the dailies but difficult to find a group for any other dungeon without spamming zone. It appears that either group finder is bugged or people are simply not using it. One way to encourage players to use the group finder is to attach a group buff when one enters a dungeon through the group finder. The buff can be +5% health +5% gold +5% drop chance. Allow players to enter a dungeon through the group finder so that pre-formed or guild groups can get the group finder buffs without randomizing their players. Now more people will use the group finder.
• Because of the dailies few people are available that want to do other dungeons because they will not reward any keys. Add a chance to drop a gold Key for any dungeon that is entered via the group finder. When you enter the dungeon through the group finder you will be given a quest to defeat that dungeon with the same challenge as a daily would have. If you defeat the dungeon and accomplish the challenge your quest reward is a undaunted coffer with a chance to contain a Gold or Silver Key, random blue or purple item, Nirncrux, or any 5 or 3 piece set gear. Most people will put the easiest dungeon on farm for this. A way around that is to make the group finder randomize the dungeon and put a 5m cooldown to prevent reforming. That will make all dungeons active everyday.

Pmarsico9

They need to introduce class specific sets and a token system. It's that simple. If I get another cloth set piece with 2 and 3 piece bonuses for stamina my head is going to explode. They need to scale drops up to 14 too. Because some of the dungeons have scaled terribly up to 12. 3rd boss of spindle clutch at vet 12 being perhaps the best example.

whsprwind

timidobserver wrote: »

1. As many other MMOs have learned, open-ended rewards that the player could potentially never get are a bad thing. As it stands, a player could do their daily every single day for five years and technically never get the item they are seeking. Statistically this is unlikely, but it does have a small chance of happening.

This ^
10 gold keys and Zero shoulders. Makes me hate the dailies and the game

Hortator Mopa

whsprwind wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

1. As many other MMOs have learned, open-ended rewards that the player could potentially never get are a bad thing. As it stands, a player could do their daily every single day for five years and technically never get the item they are seeking. Statistically this is unlikely, but it does have a small chance of happening.

This ^
10 gold keys and Zero shoulders. Makes me hate the dailies and the game

13 here, lol fun fun. Easy 50+ dungeon farm runs for helms and only ever got three so far. All the wrong armor type with terrible traits.

All I do is log on do a pledge, get nothing, farm coa, get nothing. Log off angry.

Not fun.

No doubt I will get it and feel awesome because it will be so rare but something will happen, I will work my *** off for it then they will make it easy, just to **** me again just like the undaunted exp after update 5 for people who had no achievements left..

SlayerSyrena

Just a quick question. Has anyone else gotten better gear from the bronze chest than the silver? Both times I opened bronze I got a piece of one of the Undaunted armor sets.

Silver just gives me random (non-set) green or blue items ...

Hortator Mopa

SlayerSyrena wrote: »

Just a quick question. Has anyone else gotten better gear from the bronze chest than the silver? Both times I opened bronze I got a piece of one of the Undaunted armor sets.

Silver just gives me random (non-set) green or blue items ...

I only ever do gold key chests. The other stuff is rubbish.

rophez_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

The good:


Things that can be improved and suggestions:
1. As many other MMOs have learned, open-ended rewards that the player could potentially never get are a bad thing. As it stands, a player could do their daily every single day for five years and technically never get the item they are seeking. Statistically this is unlikely, but it does have a small chance of happening.

I get the impression that you don’t want to do a token system just because it is so mainstream, so the alternative is what I will call a milestone system. The player gets a large selections of gear after every x dailies or x undaunted experience. They are able to pick one from the large selection they are given. So for example, the players gets to choose between 8 or 9 shoulders of different material(light, medium, heavy) every X dailies completed or every X amount of undaunted reputation earned.

DDO does this for raids. They realize that you can do raids every day and it's possible you'd never get the loot you want. Every time you complete a 20th run of a given raid you are given a list of rewards of around 10 items that drop in that raid to choose 1 from. It's a good system.

bellanca6561n

Dang, I just posted a completely redundant topic. Sorry.

Don't care about the loot. At this level if you don't have good gear, a bank full of first rate materials and enhancements, and at least one maxed out crafter, then...well...perhaps you don't like crafting

This is about helping a large audience who signed up because they loved the earlier ES games learn multiplayer gaming. At least this is what I'm encountering A LOT in the pick up groups I've been putting together nightly...well...until we all failed so bloody often.

At the Silver Level.

Keep the Gold Level wildly difficult. That's fine. But deliver an option for smart but regular folks.

But I'm wondering if I simply made this all up, these aims and goals, based on good daily quest schemes in other game.

Moyria

timidobserver wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

With regards to getting the gear you want, my thought is: don't make things bound on pickup. Let us trade everything.

No because the market will be flooded with it in a day and there will again be no reason to do the dungeons. I am fine with just adding some kind of expanded reward selection after you have done your dailies for while.

If no one reads anything else here, this point is extremely important and is closely tied to the OPs original point of

Without creating any new content or zones or expending a ton of resources, you significantly increased the actively played content in the game. Suddenly a bunch of obsolete dungeons are now viable for the entire player base including endgame players.

SlayerSyrena

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

I only ever do gold key chests. The other stuff is rubbish.

Agreed that a lot of the loot is 'rubbish' to be sold at a vendor or deconned but that still doesn't answer my question as to why I got Undaunted set pieces in bronze but not in silver.

Draxys

Agree with all the OP suggestions, and also- stop adding useless sets. The undaunted sets are so, so lame.

Valymer

Draxys wrote: »

Agree with all the OP suggestions, and also- stop adding useless sets. The undaunted sets are so, so lame.

I keep hearing people say that they are OP, but I don't really see it myself. Usable, sure (although I won't wear them I think), but OP is quite the stretch unless I am not being imaginative enough.

Or maybe they are talking about the CoA sets?

Draxys

Valymer wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Agree with all the OP suggestions, and also- stop adding useless sets. The undaunted sets are so, so lame.

I keep hearing people say that they are OP, but I don't really see it myself. Usable, sure (although I won't wear them I think), but OP is quite the stretch unless I am not being imaginative enough.

Or maybe they are talking about the CoA sets?

They must be talking about the unique bosses helm and shoulder pieces. I'm talking about the sets like "undaunted infiltrator." They are 100% worthless.
Edit: not only are they worthless, they fudge up my RNG to get the shoulder pieces from the gold chests

timidobserver

rophez_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

The good:


Things that can be improved and suggestions:
1. As many other MMOs have learned, open-ended rewards that the player could potentially never get are a bad thing. As it stands, a player could do their daily every single day for five years and technically never get the item they are seeking. Statistically this is unlikely, but it does have a small chance of happening.

I get the impression that you don’t want to do a token system just because it is so mainstream, so the alternative is what I will call a milestone system. The player gets a large selections of gear after every x dailies or x undaunted experience. They are able to pick one from the large selection they are given. So for example, the players gets to choose between 8 or 9 shoulders of different material(light, medium, heavy) every X dailies completed or every X amount of undaunted reputation earned.

DDO does this for raids. They realize that you can do raids every day and it's possible you'd never get the gear you want. Every time you complete a 20th run of a given raid you are given a list of rewards of around 10 items that drop in that raid to choose 1 from. It's a good system.

This is exaxtly what I was thinking or something similar.

Magdalina

SlayerSyrena wrote: »

Just a quick question. Has anyone else gotten better gear from the bronze chest than the silver? Both times I opened bronze I got a piece of one of the Undaunted armor sets.

Silver just gives me random (non-set) green or blue items ...

The drops are random. As far as I understand, when you open a green, blue OR purple chest you have a chance of getting a random (trash) piece or a set piece. The only thing that seems to differ is the quality of the items(green in bronze, blue in silver, purple in gold). Well, and gold chests are the only one that can RARELY give you shoulders.

It's possible the gold chests have a higher droprate for setpieces than silver and a LOT higher than bronze but I don't know if it's so.

Ashtaris

I thought I would revive this thread because I had a few things I would like to complain about concerning the pledges and grouping in general. First off, I have two characters that I mainly play. A V4 DPS Sorc, and a V12 DK Tank. The Sorc I run around with as a group of four family members and we are doing the dailies when we can get together (2 on East coast, 2 on West coast).

Yesterday, I tried to do a PUG with my V12 DK Tank since he is my solo character that I run around with and that was a total failure. I spent almost an hour spamming zone chat trying to find a group to join up with just to do the daily pledge. I felt like a panhandler standing on the street corner holding up a sign "Will Tank For Pledge". The LFG tool is a total joke and doesn't work at all. Finally, I gave up and went to grind Spellscar since there was nothing else for my Gold completed solo DK to do. I haven't done any questing in Craglorn, but as I understand it, setting up same level groups there is even harder.

So here comes 1.6 with their CP system. Some of us are having a hard time grouping for pledges, having a hard time grouping for Craglorn, and can only do boring grinds to get champion points? GET THE PICTURE ZOS, @ZOS_GinaBruno? PLEASE, do a major overhaul of the grouping tools. If you want us to group, at least make it as painless as possible for us to do so.

Cuyler

Although I seem to have much better luck with the RNG than others I absolutely despise it. The largest problem I see with this content (or any content in the game for that matter) is that the reward simply does not match the effort.

The RNG imo isn't the problem specifically but the drop rates and corresponding rewards behind it. ESO is not alone in this issue, almost every RNG game out there has it the same way. Lots of crap rewards and very low drop rates. One or the other needs to give. Either add more usable rewards and keep low drop rates or keep the majority of crap rewards but increase the drop rate on the good stuff.

This obv will never happen though, not part of the grind model.

rophez_ESO wrote: »

DDO does this for raids. They realize that you can do raids every day and it's possible you'd never get the gear you want. Every time you complete a 20th run of a given raid you are given a list of rewards of around 10 items that drop in that raid to choose 1 from. It's a good system.

I wouldn't mind this either. I've done 12 man trial twenty plus (20+) times with people who have yet to see a piece of aether gear. redic

Wifeaggro13

I would prefer a random pick 1 from three sets reward . Do away with the generics .

timidobserver

Ashtaris wrote: »

I thought I would revive this thread because I had a few things I would like to complain about concerning the pledges and grouping in general. First off, I have two characters that I mainly play. A V4 DPS Sorc, and a V12 DK Tank. The Sorc I run around with as a group of four family members and we are doing the dailies when we can get together (2 on East coast, 2 on West coast).

Yesterday, I tried to do a PUG with my V12 DK Tank since he is my solo character that I run around with and that was a total failure. I spent almost an hour spamming zone chat trying to find a group to join up with just to do the daily pledge. I felt like a panhandler standing on the street corner holding up a sign "Will Tank For Pledge". The LFG tool is a total joke and doesn't work at all. Finally, I gave up and went to grind Spellscar since there was nothing else for my Gold completed solo DK to do. I haven't done any questing in Craglorn, but as I understand it, setting up same level groups there is even harder.

So here comes 1.6 with their CP system. Some of us are having a hard time grouping for pledges, having a hard time grouping for Craglorn, and can only do boring grinds to get champion points? GET THE PICTURE ZOS, @ZOS_GinaBruno? PLEASE, do a major overhaul of the grouping tools. If you want us to group, at least make it as painless as possible for us to do so.

Yesterday was just an unlucky day because it was Vet BC. Vet BC is one of the dungeons I will never pug. I would rather just not do it. I think many people probably feel the same way. Vet BC is relatively easy in a group of people that know what they are doing, but it can be a major pain in random groups.

Yusuf

whsprwind wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

1. As many other MMOs have learned, open-ended rewards that the player could potentially never get are a bad thing. As it stands, a player could do their daily every single day for five years and technically never get the item they are seeking. Statistically this is unlikely, but it does have a small chance of happening.

This ^
10 gold keys and Zero shoulders. Makes me hate the dailies and the game

I've had my eyes on the Engine Guardian's Shoulders since the update, until now i have 3 different Valkyn Skoria ones, 4 different Bloodspawn ones a ton of Malubeth's and Nerieneth's but i have never seen a fart of the Engine Guardian

Knightmare187

Yusuf wrote: »

whsprwind wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

1. As many other MMOs have learned, open-ended rewards that the player could potentially never get are a bad thing. As it stands, a player could do their daily every single day for five years and technically never get the item they are seeking. Statistically this is unlikely, but it does have a small chance of happening.

This ^
10 gold keys and Zero shoulders. Makes me hate the dailies and the game

I've had my eyes on the Engine Guardian's Shoulders since the update, until now i have 3 different Valkyn Skoria ones, 4 different Bloodspawn ones a ton of Malubeth's and Nerieneth's but i have never seen a fart of the Engine Guardian

RNG is a crazy beast. I have gotten 4 shoulders, 3 of which are the Engine Guardians.

grimsfield

Drop rates for shoulders need to be seriously buffed. A system where if you do not get shoulders one day, you get an increase of +5% luck the next up to a cap of a certain % would be very nice. There are many other solutions out there that would work to solve this issue as well.

jopeymonster

The simplest is to fix the LFG tool. If that thing was working properly, more people would be running dungeons of all levels. Given the way the megaserver works, even standing in the capital zone and LFG'ing only makes you visible to a small percentage of the population.

cote-bmsb16_ESO

Need to be able to unbind items.. Maybe for a fee?

Preyfar

whsprwind wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

1. As many other MMOs have learned, open-ended rewards that the player could potentially never get are a bad thing. As it stands, a player could do their daily every single day for five years and technically never get the item they are seeking. Statistically this is unlikely, but it does have a small chance of happening.

This ^
10 gold keys and Zero shoulders. Makes me hate the dailies and the game

I think I'm about 25-30 gold keys in and I have one shoulder, and its not one I can use. It's getting discouraging, especially given that the Undaunted armor sets seem so situational. I have a full set of Bastion armor and I've never seen the damage shield proc.