My fear of restoring forward camps to Thornblade....

Thechemicals

I simply detest bloodporting and suiciding for travelling purposes. I also cant stand killing someone and watching them return to a fight less than 10 seconds later. What about you?

Nihili

Personally, my problem is that it takes me 5 minutes to get from one keep to another, and just as I arrive there I'm ganked by a group of 4 players.
>Better just get back on my horse and try again

But then again, I prefer what no-FCs has done to Cyro compared to what it was before. Now small-scale pvp happens a lot more often. And (other than the times I'm ganked down in under 5 seconds) to me PvP is a lot more fun.

Jack_Handey

I like forward camps, anything to get us back in the fight quicker. If the enemy doesn't like it, they can just burn the camp. The best fights I've been in have been around camps and they need to come back ASAP!

OrangeTheCat

Removal of FCs has been great. We are back to what PvP was at the start. Gankers have a valuable role again (cutting off reinforcements) and people have to start travelling in groups and taking non-direct routes to keeps. IOW, thinking a little more strategically and the consequences of death.

Erlex

I hope they never bring forward camps back in any capacity for as long as this game exists. I hate them and everything they stand for. Do-Overs are not for PVP.

Thechemicals

Erlex wrote: »

I hope they never bring forward camps back in any capacity for as long as this game exists. I hate them and everything they stand for. Do-Overs are not for PVP.

Yeah me too. Just that....Wheeler already mentioned restoring camps again as a possibility.

ItsMeToo

Erlex wrote: »

I hope they never bring forward camps back in any capacity for as long as this game exists. I hate them and everything they stand for. Do-Overs are not for PVP.

I agree... PvP is more fun without FCs and gives a reason to ride my horse more.

OrangeTheCat

ItsMeToo wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

I hope they never bring forward camps back in any capacity for as long as this game exists. I hate them and everything they stand for. Do-Overs are not for PVP.

I agree... PvP is more fun without FCs and gives a reason to ride my horse more.

And people will start putting stam on their horses again.

co-screenwriter_ESO

I hope FC come back soon enough. Horse simulator isn't that fun. Troll camps aren't fun either.

I'm sure ZoS will figure something out.

Cherryblossom

Not sure we can actually decide this currently as there are still camps in the game. which admitdly are used more strategically but they are still in use which are helping to produce some of the best battles.
May be they should make them a rare drop or something....

xaraan

Can't you still bloodport to keeps that are cut off but still able to be spawned at?

eventide03b14a_ESO

Good riddance.

Erlex

Thechemicals wrote: »

Erlex wrote: »

I hope they never bring forward camps back in any capacity for as long as this game exists. I hate them and everything they stand for. Do-Overs are not for PVP.

Yeah me too. Just that....Wheeler already mentioned restoring camps again as a possibility.

Wheeler needs to change his mind. There is nothing good about forward camps. Their "bonuses" are their problem. Death needs to mean something, and forward camps take that away.

There is already free travel to any keep you own thats not under attack. Adjacent keeps are 1-2 minutes apart. If someone feels like a 1-2 minute ride is "horse simulator" then you just need to go play another game with instant action - I hear call of duty is a good choice. If you repeatedly die and keep having to ride your horse somewhere, then you should work on not dying. Thats the point of PvP after all, to kill people and not die.

Elsterchen

xaraan wrote: »

Can't you still bloodport to keeps that are cut off but still able to be spawned at?

Yes u can (as long as they hold enough resources).

I enjoy PVP right now ... but i am not sure whether its because of no camps or a crowded PVP-alliance. Till now i was always stuck on some very underpopulated campains so the difference is amazing.

co-screenwriter_ESO

I don't feel the need to play another game, but thanks for pointing out CoD. I'm pretty content giving ZoS my money.

The point of CoD like any shooter or any type of PvP for that matter is in fact to "kill people and not die."

To be able to rez and get back in the action are added benefits.

Amazing insight though.

eliisra

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

And people will start putting stam on their horses again.

To bad you can't travel to the shrine in Grathwood and re-spec your mount

Let's just say I'm happy I put 30 stam on my mount randomly in the past, because there really no room for error when it takes over a month (and over 40k gold) to get a new maxed out pony.

@Camps: They also mentioned camps would have limited re-spawn radius and a cooldown. Seems like a good middle way, depending on how long the cooldown actually is. I don't want to encourage camp spamming impulse monkeys either. But I'm also tired of the braindead pew-pew between polarised keeps, no one dares to do anything original outside of max range ganking, hiding on walls, running with the zerg.

PvP without FC is still enjoyable, at least on the high pop campaign. Even if I'm pretty much out of Soul Gems at this point. But trying to play without them on low- medium is depressing. Roads are empty and long, fights are over in a couple of minutes.

Yusuf

I got it!
Different Campaignrules: A special campaign where there are no camps allowed. Then the tryhards can go there and the ones who liked camps can join the campaign with camps and nobody has to listen to any call of duty-comments.

That's what you'd call a compromise

co-screenwriter_ESO

Yusuf wrote: »

I got it!
Different Campaignrules: A special campaign where there are no camps allowed. Then the tryhards can go there and the ones who liked camps can join the campaign with camps and nobody has to listen to any call of duty-comments.

That's what you'd call a compromise

I'm sure that would work, though they need to bring it down to 2-3 campaigns then. One for non-vet and 2 for vet.

LonePirate

If you prefer small scale skirmishes or ganking, then you probably prefer the removal of forward camps.

If you prefer epic keep sieges that could last for hours, then you probably prefer having forward camps.

There is no denying that the removal of camps has pretty much put an end to sieges that last more than 10-15 minutes.

diabeticDemon18

Ok... I've posted my opinions about FCs before in a few forums but no one even remotely acknowledged me so, maybe this time I will get some response to my ideas. I don't think they're perfect, but it is an idea that I think would help very much.

FCs and Keeps should have a spawn limit... ie. 500 spawns, or something to that effect. Once the spawn limit is up, a period of time must go by (while you defend the FC) before reinforcements arrive. If the team attacking the FC doesn't burn it down in time then reinforcements show up and the other team has more spawns (the reinforcements never fully replenish the spawn count) to continue the battle. Also, if FCs have a minimum distance that they must stay away from a keep or another FC, then endless waves of players can't just spawn there until they overrun a keep with sheer number of endless spawns. Finally, no bloodporting. Period. If you die and need to spawn, you must be within a maximum range of the FC to spawn. Therefor, no players spawning from across the map. This very, very simple system to implement could offer a lot, IMO, to this already amazing game. What do you guys think?

co-screenwriter_ESO

LonePirate wrote: »

If you prefer small scale skirmishes or ganking, then you probably prefer the removal of forward camps.

If you prefer epic keep sieges that could last for hours, then you probably prefer having forward camps.

There is no denying that the removal of camps has pretty much put an end to sieges that last more than 10-15 minutes.

Epic keep sieges please.

Thechemicals

I dont prefer ganking over keep seiging. Just enjoy having accomplished something when you win a fight instead of having the entire raid you wiped return record time to repeat the same process. Its dumb and lacks any penalty. Even fps games respawn you far enough from where you died that you dont become a nuisance. In this game you could literally resurrect 5-10 meters from where someone had just wrecked you.

briandivisionb16_ESO

Agree.
Agree.
Agree.
The removal of the camps was the best thing to happen in Cyrodiil. Now ZoS are backtracking because of the 'shock' factor everyone experienced and expressed with an unannounced, overnight change.

Like I said in /feedback, they should've given it at least a week for the sulkers to resub and stop paddying; many friends I know were dubious about the removal at first, only to completely agree later.

Changed my sub back to monthly from 3 monthly.
Anxious.


-Orken Elvenplower

hamon

Thechemicals wrote: »

I dont prefer ganking over keep seiging. Just enjoy having accomplished something when you win a fight instead of having the entire raid you wiped return record time to repeat the same process. Its dumb and lacks any penalty. Even fps games respawn you far enough from where you died that you dont become a nuisance. In this game you could literally resurrect 5-10 meters from where someone had just wrecked you.

if you leave a camp un touched 5-10 metres from where you killed a raid then you deserve to have them rez and kill you... heres a tactical bit of info for you KILL THE CAMP.

total removal of camps just rewards gankers. i wouldnt mind if getting shot off my horse left me with any chance to actually fight back but it doesnt. its just as bad as spawn camping imo. its the cheapest kills in the game. riding across the map to get to a fight only to have some muppet pop you from stealth off your horse for an insta gib , and force you to go back and ride all the way again just makes folk leave cyrodill tbh.

if they remove camps they should remove the need for soul gems to rez folk. both together is too punishing , and just rewards gankers.

Thechemicals

hamon wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

I dont prefer ganking over keep seiging. Just enjoy having accomplished something when you win a fight instead of having the entire raid you wiped return record time to repeat the same process. Its dumb and lacks any penalty. Even fps games respawn you far enough from where you died that you dont become a nuisance. In this game you could literally resurrect 5-10 meters from where someone had just wrecked you.

if you leave a camp un touched 5-10 metres from where you killed a raid then you deserve to have them rez and kill you... heres a tactical bit of info for you KILL THE CAMP.

total removal of camps just rewards gankers. i wouldnt mind if getting shot off my horse left me with any chance to actually fight back but it doesnt. its just as bad as spawn camping imo. its the cheapest kills in the game. riding across the map to get to a fight only to have some muppet pop you from stealth off your horse for an insta gib , and force you to go back and ride all the way again just makes folk leave cyrodill tbh.

if they remove camps they should remove the need for soul gems to rez folk. both together is too punishing , and just rewards gankers.

Thats shortsighted and lacking experience in Cyrodiil. enemy camps only need to be up for 2-3 seconds for an entire raid to pop up. Also, camps are placed discreetly most times. Finally, camps are placed in all keeps for quick bloodporting and even if you shot a fire trebuchet over the wall to hit it, someone just places another one. Im not sure you have been in large siege battles, but if you have then you should know these things by now.

I have seen enemy raids place camps right in front of our faces and 20+ people come out of them. Your point is just not realistic. Most good raid groups scour inner keeps for enemy camps like you are stating, and what you get is this:

1. The enemy camp is actually not in the keep and 60+ people you had just killed are coming through the front door of the keep.
2. The enemy camps have been destroyed but someone managed to place one up just long enough for 20 people to spawn in. Those 20 people will also be attempting to place new camps
3. The enemy camp is simply inacessable without heavy fighting to get to them. During this heavy fighting boths sides are spamming camps and players just continue to appear over and over and over until a camp cant be placed anymore and a wipe happens. Thats Camp vs Camp first and pvp second.
4. Everyone that is somewhere else on the map just lets themselves die to spawn at any of the camps in 1,2,3 mentioned above.

Evergnar

It's better for the game if they bring fc's back but in a more limited/restrictive manner. Fc's contribute to the map being much more dynamic and engaging.

I think players are enjoying the novelty of the game without them right now so I see no reason to rush them back in. Take the time to get them right.

All that being said we've played this version of Cyrodiil before. It gets old and creates its own set of problems. This is why fc's were introduced in the first place. Anybody remember the days of 100+ man zerg or go home?

I'm apprehensive about them coming back but not worried. Sure, I don't want to see things equally as stupid (like blood porting). We'll just have to wait and see what changes they make but fully agree with Zos making changes to fc's and implementing again.

bosmern_ESO

No FC's = best PvP

Puts much more strategy and thinking into everything rather then throwing pugs at a keep until it goes down.

Thechemicals

Lets not be one sided here. Although i despise FC....could you imagine an fc that can only be place at a resource.... and based off the resource it is put on, you get additional bonuses from the resource (mine- more keep defensive walls farm- more npc guards wood- stronger main doors).

Iggybot

I like the new pvp with no fcs but I agree with the negatives as well. I think a simple solution would be to raise the price and only allow people who died in the fc radius to respawn at it. It was too easy to u them to suicide travel but if you are set up during a siege or defense they certainly make it more enjoyable.

The thing I really like is how dying has consequences so people's play style has changed to become more defensive.

briandivisionb16_ESO

Nonsense. Keep them gone.
P.S. Thx for this thread

AlexDougherty

Iggybot wrote: »

I like the new pvp with no fcs but I agree with the negatives as well. I think a simple solution would be to raise the price and only allow people who died in the fc radius to respawn at it. It was too easy to u them to suicide travel but if you are set up during a siege or defense they certainly make it more enjoyable.

The thing I really like is how dying has consequences so people's play style has changed to become more defensive.

I think one of the things people were complaining about was that people were dying and immediately rejoining the fight. Now maybe if they had added a timer for the Forward camps, like you have to wait a couple of minutes, then it could have worked.