Sorcs are not so good

Gorthax

This is my conclusion right now.....the damage output is laughable. So if someone has an amazing build, I would really like to see it. Cuz as it sits right now, I have tried a lot i mean A LOT of different combos and well it is borderline horrid! I dont plan on playing melee as I have always played mages in every game.

I would really like to be enlightened. I hate to say compared to other classes but when compared to other classes, sorcs blow donkey D.....worst "class" in this game.

I dont want to switch to a bow and hop on that OP train. So we can skip that one.

I also refuse to do the cookie cutter FOTG (flavor of the game). FOTG is seducers+warlock shield stacking broke [split] combo.

So enlighten me to a staff build that works good in pvp.

*edited to not sound so harsh on sorcs but my view still stands*

[Edit to remove profanity]

yodased

If I felt that you actually wanted a viable build and not a build that you want I would help you, but the general tone is that sorcs 'suck' based on your assumption of what a sorc should do.

You have unlimited mobility, great survivability and maybe you didn't realize, but crushing shock + light weaving with critical surge right now makes you pretty OP, but I digress.

This smacks very close to "I can't play as I want even though they told me I could" which is faulty logic in the first place.

Gorthax

Nope. Not what I mean. Crushing shock is alright but in pvp it gets reflected by every player you meet damn near since majority of people are DK's. Yes, I want a viable build. I have mixed and matched skills over and over and have nothing. I also dont want to be forced into the seducer warlock combo. So you see, I am trying to NOT do cookie cutter sorc builds.

Sorry if my frustration carried over into my wording. Just far to much frustration in this game that never gets resolved.

Yes i would LOVE to play how I want, but instead you are being forced into the same build as everyone else. Which is why I am asking. I am trying to NOT give in finally and do seducer warlock shield stacking cookie cutter bs.

TheLaw

Sorcs aren't bad, but they were nerfed too early and too hard. They are indeed one of the worst classes dps wise, but I make it work for the most part.

Mind you, I have a V14 NB, DK and Sorc. Sorc is the weakest overall, imo. We had mobility, but that's been nerfed pretty hard now. So sorcs succeed at very few things vs other classes.

AelyinESO

@Zenimax, need to give more attention to Sorcerers instead of keeping nerfing it, 1.5.4 actual patch sorcerers has much less DPS than other classes.

I would like to see MORE balance between classes @‌Zenimax

Gorthax

They cant even get volatile familiar to work, it does ZERO damage.......and people say sorcs are power house lol yea if we use Crushing Shock, but that is useless in pvp where 90% of all players are flappy bird DK's even though it is not a projectile but hey, its ZoS's game and we play how they deem worthy

Pyatra

I feel like we have a lot of ok situational skills but... maybe too many. I notice Sorcs severely rely on weapon skills to get our top DPS. With Crushing Shock, LA I can get higher dps than anything else and and maybe bow now, then melee. All those builds only really need Crit Surge, encase, and Negate on bar 2.

Have you seen the DK builds, class skills galore, same with NBs, same with Templars. Dear god don't nerf the others because of sorc, I don't think the NBs and Templars could take it. I just feel that there is something wrong when the other classes running their primary purposes are using lots of class skills and sorc isn't, expecially for PVP and Trials/Crag Delves. Maybe I'm waxing philosophical at this point, but I can't tell you what the primary roll of the Sorcerer is and generalist doesn't quite feel right either.

Edit: Maybe when they tweak the spell power scaling in 6 things will get better and previous underdog sorc skills will see some decent use. I'm hoping.

Gorthax

THANK YOU! Sorcs are sooooooo freaking UP and need a buff and revamp to the skill line BADLY currently our skills are laughable in pvp. Very little output to be competitive at all.

Jahosefat

I agree sorc is lagging behind other classes and needs some loving. I want to help my fellow sorc brethren (regardless of alliance) so I donate the following build which has offered me much success in the past few days.

But its not just the build, you have to play it right. A lot of dps comes from light/heavy lightning staff attacks. DK reflect is an obvious counter to this build, with strong DKs I play keep away. It's very hard for me to kill them and very hard for them to kill me; just try to outlast with staff heavy attacks/streak and punish them every second they don't have wings up. If you can get them to ~50% absorption field followed by streaking and crushing shock spam can sometimes catch them off guard.

Offense: Immovable, Power Surge, Streak, Crushing Shock, Hardened Ward, Flawless Dawnbreaker--- Lightning staff with weighted

Defense/Support Cleanse, Rapid Regeneration, Streak, Healing Ward, Hardened Ward, Absorption Field---- Resto staff with defense

I go through a ton of potions (I take one almost every time I hit Immovable). Streak and Hardened Ward are on both bars because I like being able to cast both at all times. Roll dodge and block excessively, all while chugging stam/weapon power potions while keeping range with streak.

Crushing Shock/light attack and heavy attacks with surge up and occasional streaking is plenty of damage to kill most people (beware the DKs, sometimes you have to wait for them to die of old age, or drag them across the map to NPCs/friends). I like power surge for mag conservation and less casting/bar swapping.

I hope I can help another sorc in these dark times.

[Edit]: 7/7 light armor, 5/5 seducer, 3/5 ashen grip, 2/3 Grace of the Ancients, 41 Health 21 Mag, 2 weapon damage enchants on jewelry 1 mag cost reduction, Warrior Mundus

Pyatra

Jahosefat wrote: »

I agree sorc is lagging behind other classes and needs some loving. I want to help my fellow sorc brethren (regardless of alliance) so I donate the following build which has offered me much success in the past few days.

But its not just the build, you have to play it right. A lot of dps comes from light/heavy lightning staff attacks. DK reflect is an obvious counter to this build, with strong DKs I play keep away. It's very hard for me to kill them and very hard for them to kill me; just try to outlast with staff heavy attacks/streak and punish them every second they don't have wings up. If you can get them to ~50% absorption field followed by streaking and crushing shock spam can sometimes catch them off guard.

Offense: Immovable, Power Surge, Streak, Crushing Shock, Hardened Ward, Flawless Dawnbreaker--- Lightning staff with weighted

Defense/Support Cleanse, Rapid Regeneration, Streak, Healing Ward, Hardened Ward, Absorption Field---- Resto staff with defense

I go through a ton of potions (I take one almost every time I hit Immovable). Streak and Hardened Ward are on both bars because I like being able to cast both at all times. Roll dodge and block excessively, all while chugging stam/weapon power potions while keeping range with streak.

Crushing Shock/light attack and heavy attacks with surge up and occasional streaking is plenty of damage to kill most people (beware the DKs, sometimes you have to wait for them to die of old age, or drag them across the map to NPCs/friends). I like power surge for mag conservation and less casting/bar swapping.

I hope I can help another sorc in these dark times.

[Edit]: 7/7 light armor, 5/5 seducer, 3/5 ashen grip, 2/3 Grace of the Ancients, 41 Health 21 Mag, 2 weapon damage enchants on jewelry 1 mag cost reduction, Warrior Mundus

I already know you are going to get flak from the shield stacking thing, but a sorcs gotta do what a sorcs gotta do.

Jahosefat

Pyatra wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

I agree sorc is lagging behind other classes and needs some loving. I want to help my fellow sorc brethren (regardless of alliance) so I donate the following build which has offered me much success in the past few days.

But its not just the build, you have to play it right. A lot of dps comes from light/heavy lightning staff attacks. DK reflect is an obvious counter to this build, with strong DKs I play keep away. It's very hard for me to kill them and very hard for them to kill me; just try to outlast with staff heavy attacks/streak and punish them every second they don't have wings up. If you can get them to ~50% absorption field followed by streaking and crushing shock spam can sometimes catch them off guard.

Offense: Immovable, Power Surge, Streak, Crushing Shock, Hardened Ward, Flawless Dawnbreaker--- Lightning staff with weighted

Defense/Support Cleanse, Rapid Regeneration, Streak, Healing Ward, Hardened Ward, Absorption Field---- Resto staff with defense

I go through a ton of potions (I take one almost every time I hit Immovable). Streak and Hardened Ward are on both bars because I like being able to cast both at all times. Roll dodge and block excessively, all while chugging stam/weapon power potions while keeping range with streak.

Crushing Shock/light attack and heavy attacks with surge up and occasional streaking is plenty of damage to kill most people (beware the DKs, sometimes you have to wait for them to die of old age, or drag them across the map to NPCs/friends). I like power surge for mag conservation and less casting/bar swapping.

I hope I can help another sorc in these dark times.

[Edit]: 7/7 light armor, 5/5 seducer, 3/5 ashen grip, 2/3 Grace of the Ancients, 41 Health 21 Mag, 2 weapon damage enchants on jewelry 1 mag cost reduction, Warrior Mundus

I already know you are going to get flak from the shield stacking thing, but a sorcs gotta do what a sorcs gotta do.

I support shield stacking.

Gorthax

Jahosefat wrote: »

I agree sorc is lagging behind other classes and needs some loving. I want to help my fellow sorc brethren (regardless of alliance) so I donate the following build which has offered me much success in the past few days.

But its not just the build, you have to play it right. A lot of dps comes from light/heavy lightning staff attacks. DK reflect is an obvious counter to this build, with strong DKs I play keep away. It's very hard for me to kill them and very hard for them to kill me; just try to outlast with staff heavy attacks/streak and punish them every second they don't have wings up. If you can get them to ~50% absorption field followed by streaking and crushing shock spam can sometimes catch them off guard.

Offense: Immovable, Power Surge, Streak, Crushing Shock, Hardened Ward, Flawless Dawnbreaker--- Lightning staff with weighted

Defense/Support Cleanse, Rapid Regeneration, Streak, Healing Ward, Hardened Ward, Absorption Field---- Resto staff with defense

I go through a ton of potions (I take one almost every time I hit Immovable). Streak and Hardened Ward are on both bars because I like being able to cast both at all times. Roll dodge and block excessively, all while chugging stam/weapon power potions while keeping range with streak.

Crushing Shock/light attack and heavy attacks with surge up and occasional streaking is plenty of damage to kill most people (beware the DKs, sometimes you have to wait for them to die of old age, or drag them across the map to NPCs/friends). I like power surge for mag conservation and less casting/bar swapping.

I hope I can help another sorc in these dark times.

[Edit]: 7/7 light armor, 5/5 seducer, 3/5 ashen grip, 2/3 Grace of the Ancients, 41 Health 21 Mag, 2 weapon damage enchants on jewelry 1 mag cost reduction, Warrior Mundus

Interesting build but def not my cup of tea for play style. I actually have been reworking my current build and I am going to let you in on a little secret I discovered. Shattering Prison is a soft cc......I thought it was a hard cc (swear i heard that on a youtube clip)

That means that the burning talons BS that DK's do sorcs can do better and further away. If they roll dodge out of it the effect ends and still damages them for 300. Rinse repeat all while tactically applying damage to them. Once that stamina runs out, streak frag them to death. They are forced to be stuck in one position, take damage, or roll dodge out and waste that stamina.

Once that stamina has been consumed it is good game for them. Streak for a quick stun, proc frags, hit em repeat.

Jahosefat

Gorthax wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

I agree sorc is lagging behind other classes and needs some loving. I want to help my fellow sorc brethren (regardless of alliance) so I donate the following build which has offered me much success in the past few days.

But its not just the build, you have to play it right. A lot of dps comes from light/heavy lightning staff attacks. DK reflect is an obvious counter to this build, with strong DKs I play keep away. It's very hard for me to kill them and very hard for them to kill me; just try to outlast with staff heavy attacks/streak and punish them every second they don't have wings up. If you can get them to ~50% absorption field followed by streaking and crushing shock spam can sometimes catch them off guard.

Offense: Immovable, Power Surge, Streak, Crushing Shock, Hardened Ward, Flawless Dawnbreaker--- Lightning staff with weighted

Defense/Support Cleanse, Rapid Regeneration, Streak, Healing Ward, Hardened Ward, Absorption Field---- Resto staff with defense

I go through a ton of potions (I take one almost every time I hit Immovable). Streak and Hardened Ward are on both bars because I like being able to cast both at all times. Roll dodge and block excessively, all while chugging stam/weapon power potions while keeping range with streak.

Crushing Shock/light attack and heavy attacks with surge up and occasional streaking is plenty of damage to kill most people (beware the DKs, sometimes you have to wait for them to die of old age, or drag them across the map to NPCs/friends). I like power surge for mag conservation and less casting/bar swapping.

I hope I can help another sorc in these dark times.

[Edit]: 7/7 light armor, 5/5 seducer, 3/5 ashen grip, 2/3 Grace of the Ancients, 41 Health 21 Mag, 2 weapon damage enchants on jewelry 1 mag cost reduction, Warrior Mundus

Interesting build but def not my cup of tea for play style. I actually have been reworking my current build and I am going to let you in on a little secret I discovered. Shattering Prison is a soft cc......I thought it was a hard cc (swear i heard that on a youtube clip)

That means that the burning talons BS that DK's do sorcs can do better and further away. If they roll dodge out of it the effect ends and still damages them for 300. Rinse repeat all while tactically applying damage to them. Once that stamina runs out, streak frag them to death. They are forced to be stuck in one position, take damage, or roll dodge out and waste that stamina.

Once that stamina has been consumed it is good game for them. Streak for a quick stun, proc frags, hit em repeat.

Hmmm I played with shattering prison in the past but moved it off my bars because of the mag cost (before they raised mag soft caps). Now it does seem more reasonable (339 mag cost with ~2600 mag). I will experiment with this, thank you for the suggestion

Gorthax

this is literally the only good thing sorcs have as casters in pvp lol

Jahosefat

Gorthax wrote: »

this is literally the only good thing sorcs have as casters in pvp lol

lol it's been slim pickings lately as far as class abilities go. I'm excited to revisit shattering prison when I get home.

Gorthax

it is a lot of fun to use I decided to take my tank sorc (not the sorc I was talking about in this thread) and make him a 2h sorc. Trying to find a decent build for him now lol melee is NOT my strong suite >_>

Cody

i remember the first month or two of release, sorcerers were OP as heck. i cant even begin to describe how OP they were. now they are becoming the weakest class in the game......

funny how things flip-flop sometimes:D

well, if you dont want to grab a bow... you could go at it as a melee player.... you dont see too many sorcerer tanks(or at least i dont) but they are around, and some are pretty good.

not to mention that wise use of BE will make you a pain in the behind to deal with. if you use it right with a melee build, you can be pretty effective.

to put it in other words, there are more ways to use the sorcerer thanthe LA caster route. now, whether or not you are willing to forsake your prefered playstyle in order to do well in the game is your business.

Gorthax

See previous post :P I am trying a 2H mace sorc style on my sorc tank that was collecting dust lol kinda tough to find a build I like though. I find it funny that sorcs couldnt survive 2 nerfs before they were destroyed, but DK are so strong that they survived 5+ nerfs and are STILL as good as they are right now lol

DK = only class to be immune to Dev effects

Kypho

Bad sorcerers are bad, good sorcerers are awesome ballanced vs another good player, any class. Not easy like DK class.

Smajestic

Kypho wrote: »

Bad sorcerers are bad, good sorcerers are awesome ballanced vs another good player, any class. Not easy like DK class.

maybe it's right for PVP, but really subjectiv,
but for PVE Raid, with DPS (damage per second), a little more objectiv, Sorcerer are really weak, when you compare to other class, it's 25 % less damage than DK magicka, or 10-20 % less DPS than nightblade (magicka/stamina).

Gyudan

Smajestic wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Bad sorcerers are bad, good sorcerers are awesome ballanced vs another good player, any class. Not easy like DK class.

maybe it's right for PVP, but really subjectiv,
but for PVE Raid, with DPS (damage per second), a little more objectiv, Sorcerer are really weak, when you compare to other class, it's 25 % less damage than DK magicka, or 10-20 % less DPS than nightblade (magicka/stamina).

And that's for single target DPS.
The numbers for AOE are even worse. :<

TheLaw

The lack of class dps in PVE does carry over to PVP, unfortunately.

Cathexis

@yodased you should be able to play how you want, that's one of the fundamental features of elder scrolls. The entire spirit is about not cookie cutting, even if it is Xmas.

TheLaw

Cathexis wrote: »

@yodased you should be able to play how you want, that's one of the fundamental features of elder scrolls. The entire spirit is about not cookie cutting, even if it is Xmas.

They're heading in the right direction, but yeah, atm you are rarely able to play how you want (viably). Unless you're happy with the few cookie-cutter builds that work for each class.

Jitterbug

On my sorc (melee/bow) I roll with one (1) class skill, Boundless Storm. To be fair though I slot Negate for pvp-raids because leaders want it.
Now, I like the skills I have slottet so they don't need to be class skills per se, but I would love some utility like group buffs or some way to regen stamina... something like that (reverse dark deal).

Gyudan

With Update 6 planned for January on the PTS, it won't be on the main servers before February. That's 2 more months of sorcerer imbalance.
I'm glad my reroll is getting close to VR14 ...

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I still don't get why every class has abilities that are borderline OP when spammed but sorcs are the only class in the game with an ability that punishes you for spamming it.

Spamming dragon blood/talons/flappy wings is just as powerful as spamming streak ever was. Same thing with blazing shield or sap essence.

My main issue with sorcs is poor survivability. The reason your PvP DPS is so low is that you are spending half of your magicka and time maintaining positioning, buffs, and shields.

This gives you very few resources to fight against opponents that can get you to 25% health easily with one invasion+talons+whip spam and heal 600HPS with one button while sorcs completely lack a battlefield effective class heal.

It gets embarrassing when a templar or DK can outheal your dps sustained with out even using any offensive abilities. Even with maxed out spell power.

Here is two things that need to happen for sorc to be competative.

* change impen trait to reduce crit damage instead of reducing crit chance. I don't care if I crit for only 1pt more damage as long as it counts as a crit.

* Make crit surge cheaper, with a less clunky animation and increase BOTH spell damage and weapon power.

That would be a good start.

Pyatra

Or throw away the heal on crit completely and make it a flat %chance to proc that scales with morp level.

Grao

ok, my two cents as a main Sorc player.

Our class was the second highest DPS before the final reworks to nightblades and stamina builds. We became underpowered because other classes were rebalanced and reworked and that is the natural cycle in any MMO. (Thought I am tired of Dragonknights always being on top of the food chain)

The real problem I have with the current sorcerer skill line is the number of abilities that are actually useful (Aiming for end game PvE content here). The current rotation for a Trial Sorc is Crushing Shock (or Force Pulse if you consider the CC from Crushing shock to be detrimental) weaved with light attacks while keeping Critical Surge up. So, what are the problems you ask? Well, first of all, it is BORING. No, seriously, it is an extremely easy and boring rotation that most people simply macro on a extra mouse button... On trials we have very few options for ultimate, Summon Atronach for the rare occasion you are actually allowed to do damage, Negate ( your raid leader will kill you if you don't have that), Barrier if you happen to PvP a lot, Flawless Dawnbreaker (A must have to increase DPS, but a pointless Ult except for the passive) and on the rare occasion, Sturdy Horn, because Sorcs are the only class that don't offer good Raid wide buffs (which are required to go through Sanctum Ophidia).

We have almost no option on altering that build and remaining significant on the DPS chart. Unfortunately most of our class abilities are gimmicky and borderline useless. Most of our utility never works on bosses, pets are useless because the AI for them is completely stupid (which means your pet gets one shot by any boss every 10 seconds), we are plagged with extremly long cast times and long animations... Which results on the boring ass rotation of critical surge -. Light attack + Crushing shock. The DPS you get from that is ok, not the best and you have no fun doing it... Even the DPS burst we could put put by using Draedric Mines ZoS patched (which dropped our Raid DPS in about 200)... I would really like to see some useful abilities for PvE sorcs...

EDIT: Oh! And because staff abilities still scale from weapon power (and crushing shock is one of those) you are forced to gear towards weapon power instead of ability power. That makes your execute as a sorcerer horrible, not to mention any of your other sorc abilities, including ults! It is great >.>

Grao

I mean, how hard would it be to make pets only get hit by AoEs you failed to dodge? >.>

Derra

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I still don't get why every class has abilities that are borderline OP when spammed but sorcs are the only class in the game with an ability that punishes you for spamming it.

Spamming dragon blood/talons/flappy wings is just as powerful as spamming streak ever was. Same thing with blazing shield or sap essence.

Because its ok if the cookie looks tasty but is filled with nails rather then have the cookie running away from you.
Thats basically it. You won´t eat the cookie either way but the feeling is different. Sorcs getting away ppl feel cheated out of their "earned" victory over a class with no incombat heal. They lack the understanding that teleporting away is basically the same as a dk popping gdb and standard of might to go full health and resources again (and them *** them).