Werewolf Review and Suggestions post update 5

Chrlynsch

Update 5 has given werewolf a BIG update and is a long way from where it was at launch. The addition of aoe, heal, and knockdown are amazing and make the werewolf a blast to play.

Werewolf is by no means overpowered, in pvp we do have strong burst damage and can make a quick meal of the unaware. Though things such as reflective scales reflects our howls (sound isn't a projectile the last time I checked) and is rather annoying. We rely on our stamina for movement, blocking, and attacks.

Werewolf in pve can maintain average 1.5k aoe damage and about 1.2k single target (if target can bleed, pop pots, and you keep your rotation). These numbers are respectable but no where come close to breaking the game as other classes can achieve this normally.

ZOS nerfed the timer feeling it would be too powerful to stay in form for an extended period of time. This is not the case.

The community in large is asking for more time let alone a toggle and I can't see a single post on the forums asking for werewolves to be nerfed (first sign of possible op or l2p debate). There isn't a real reason to not allow a 2 min, 4 min, 10 min timer... let alone no timer.

Suggestions:
-Remove the timer
-Change the existing time function of WW abilities and skills
-Feral pounce becomes invasive pounce which taunts the target and removes minimum distance for the pounce.
-Pack Leader: self, increases health and stamina by 5% maximum 25% for each werewolf and bezerker wolf nearby. Others: Increase damage of Werewolf and werewolf bezerkers by 10%(non-stacking).
-Call of the pack: reduce cost of sprinting and increase speed by 5% up to 25%
-Werewolves are supposed to have a supernatural hide that protects us. A +- 2% increase to Armor and Spell Power are laughable. Go with a flat damage mitigation of minimum 10%, max15%.
- Let us sneak and harder to detect. We are creatures of the hunt and master preditors... surprised I have to mention this.

With all that is stated I do love my werewolf and love using him. These changes would put the Polish on the wolf. With that... INCREASE or REMOVE THE TIMER!

Leave your opinions and your imputs here. Let ZOS know how we feel about the current status of the werewolf.


@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

risen1981

+1

TheBull

The piercing howl being reflected is just dumb...

ZB21K

WW is a lot better than before but it is still not quite competitive. However I think a passive that was active in both WW and Humanoid form that INCREASED DETECTION RANGE would be great and make it worth playing.

Chrlynsch

ZB21K wrote: »

WW is a lot better than before but it is still not quite competitive. However I think a passive that was active in both WW and Humanoid form that INCREASED DETECTION RANGE would be great and make it worth playing.

@ZB21K‌ I really like the increased detection range... Though personally think it should only be applied in werewolf form. The only other skill that grants this is mage light, and has a visual cue that is used. This should probably be the case for WW as well. Granted we are given MUCH longer in form or that we are given perma form.

Oronell

Prothwata wrote: »

ZB21K wrote: »

WW is a lot better than before but it is still not quite competitive. However I think a passive that was active in both WW and Humanoid form that INCREASED DETECTION RANGE would be great and make it worth playing.

@ZB21K‌ I really like the increased detection range... Though personally think it should only be applied in werewolf form. The only other skill that grants this is mage light, and has a visual cue that is used. This should probably be the case for WW as well. Granted we are given MUCH longer in form or that we are given perma form.

Like most Vampire passives such as "Dark Stalker" ("Move faster while sneaking and enter stealth more quickly at night") the Werewolf "Pursuit" passive should also do double duty and be available in both forms. In my opinion it would make sense for the Pursuit Passive to also increase detection range even if it was also limited to night.

The Pursuit Passive should provide the Stamina Regen and increased detection. I'm not getting why they changed it to:

Pursuit: This passive now increases stamina gained from heavy attacks.

I thought Stamina gain from Heavy Attacks was something that was implemented across the board? Its hardly fair to apply something that is available to everyone to a passive skill that should be unique to Werewolves. That's just my opinion though.

ZB21K

I also posted a thread up about it in the general discussions.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1366121#Comment_1366121

Chrlynsch

Oronell wrote: »

Like most Vampire passives such as "Dark Stalker" ("Move faster while sneaking and enter stealth more quickly at night") the Werewolf "Pursuit" passive should also do double duty and be available in both forms. In my opinion it would make sense for the Pursuit Passive to also increase detection range even if it was also limited to night.

The Pursuit Passive should provide the Stamina Regen and increased detection. I'm not getting why they changed it to:

Pursuit: This passive now increases stamina gained from heavy attacks.

I thought Stamina gain from Heavy Attacks was something that was implemented across the board? Its hardly fair to apply something that is available to everyone to a passive skill that should be unique to Werewolves. That's just my opinion though.

I think I remember seeing that with pursuit you gain close to double stamina from your heavy attacks. I would feel like this passive would be more suited if it had increased detection and reduced sprint/ sneak in werewolf form.

Personally I really hope we don't gain anything else as passives as humans. I hate it to become something ever human picks up because it's necessary for trials or pvp. I already know many people who only use it for the ultimate gain and don't think this is the right direction.

If the whole purpose of blood rage is to generate ultimate and earn werewolf rank faster why not just lower the cost or remove the cost of the ultimate in order to get the same results and avoid any misuse.

Werewolf should be its own experience and we shouldn't be comparing to other world skill lines because should be its own entity and not a copy with different skin.

Oronell

Prothwata wrote: »

Personally I really hope we don't gain anything else as passives as humans. I hate it to become something ever human picks up because it's necessary for trials or pvp. I already know many people who only use it for the ultimate gain and don't think this is the right direction.

If the whole purpose of blood rage is to generate ultimate and earn werewolf rank faster why not just lower the cost or remove the cost of the ultimate in order to get the same results and avoid any misuse.

I honestly think most people will be satisfied with the stamina regen and increased detection.

In my opinion Blood Rage should apply to Werewolf form only and be used to generate Ultimate (more time) to stay in form. This would definitely end the abuse.

I could honestly do without the dodge ability. A bloodthirsty Werewolf dodging like that just seems and looks silly to me. I would trade the dodge for those two human form passives and increased time in form any day. I would even trade the beast mode 100% success rate CC break for those things as well but maybe that's just me...sometimes you gotta give to get.

Oronell

Prothwata wrote: »

I think I remember seeing that with pursuit you gain close to double stamina from your heavy attacks. I would feel like this passive would be more suited if it had increased detection and reduced sprint/ sneak in werewolf form.

Pursuit now increases heavy attack stamina return by 100%. That is all it does. This is the worst Passive we have at the moment. The previous version (Stamina increased by [10%, 20%] while in werewolf form) was 1000x better.

In my "perfect" Werewolf world...

The Pursuit passive should be: Increased Stamina regeneration and stealth detection in human and Werewolf form

The Blood Rage passive should be: Generates 6.0 Ultimate every 3 seconds by taking damage (adds to timer). Player must be in Werewolf form.

The Call of the Pack passive should be: Increases attack speed (haste) of allies in Werewolf form by 5% (with reasonable group affect and stacking allowance).

That is my suggestion....eh but what do I know....

Edit: For "Call of the Pack" I changed attack damage buff to haste so its not OP.

Orchish

Blood rage passive would be useless if it only worked in Werewolf form. I would not be happy if it were changed like that. It's good that it works in Human/Orc form That passive alone was a big factor in making me keep Werewolf form, as although WW has been improved greatly, it is still not up to par when it comes to PvP. Especially considering lethal arrow can be fired like crazy now. I can still bring down a WW very quickly unless he spams the heal, but while he his constantly spamming that he is wasting his precious timer and not doing any damage to me.

Oronell

Orchish wrote: »

Blood rage passive would be useless if it only worked in Werewolf form. I would not be happy if it were changed like that. It's good that it works in Human/Orc form That passive alone was a big factor in making me keep Werewolf form, as although WW has been improved greatly, it is still not up to par when it comes to PvP. Especially considering lethal arrow can be fired like crazy now. I can still bring down a WW very quickly unless he spams the heal, but while he his constantly spamming that he is wasting his precious timer and not doing any damage to me.

How is that "useless" if it helps to keep you in form longer?

Similar concept to The Incredible Hulk, who stays "Hulked up" the angrier he gets i.e. the more he is attacked. Granted, making him angry in human form also results in his transformation but in the world of ESO I would rather have the benefit of staying in Werewolf form longer than have the benefit of transforming more often.

Orchish

Because as it is right now it is far better than your suggestion. Being in WW form is only useful in very limited situations. Majority of the time i use standard as it's just all round better and cheaper to use. The Blood Rage doesn't just help me build up my ultimate faster for the WW form, it also helps for my other Ult making it far more useful for me than if it were to only work in WW form.

Not to mention, any ultimate you gain in WW is lost upon transforming back to Human/Orc form. That part needs to change. It really should not reset.

That said, i would agree with your pursuit suggestion, that would be more useful.

Oronell

Orchish wrote: »

Because as it is right now it is far better than your suggestion. Being in WW form is only useful in very limited situations. Majority of the time i use standard as it's just all round better and cheaper to use. The Blood Rage doesn't just help me build up my ultimate faster for the WW form, it also helps for my other Ult making it far more useful for me than if it were to only work in WW form.

Not to mention, any ultimate you gain in WW is lost upon transforming back to Human/Orc form. That part needs to change. It really should not reset.

That said, i would agree with your pursuit suggestion, that would be more useful.

I do the exact same thing for DK Standard but ask yourself how useful it will be when they nerf it to prevent us from using it to build up Ultimate for other abilities. That's a nerf I have already prepared myself for. Lol.

Edit: What I'm suggesting for Blood Rage is tied to each point of Ultimate/Finesse providing you time in form. The Ultimate is the timer, this means once your Ultimate runs out you return to human form so no worries about wasting any Ultimate that was gained.

biodragon

This one would be happy if ultimate was not lost after the change to human aaaand Pack Leader's heavy attack adds more time (scalable to 1/3 timer bar maybe)...

Chrlynsch

biodragon wrote: »

This one would be happy if ultimate was not lost after the change to human aaaand Pack Leader's heavy attack adds more time (scalable to 1/3 timer bar maybe)...

@biodragon‌ I feel like ultimate loss is a big issue amongst werewolves, as keeping ulti gained in form would increase the frequency of transformations.

More time for pack leader heavy hits isn't a bad idea at all for increased werewolf form at least in pve... I find it nearly impossible to get a heavy attack off in pvp as it leaves you wide open and vulnerable, as everyone and their mom block casts and stuns.

I think the main problem we keep coming back to is lack of time in form. The fact that the use of the ultimate doesn't increase your dps really isn't an issue to me as long as we stop feeling STRESSED about the timer. We spend to much time being focused on the timer instead of focusing on the kill.

Let's put it this way, what werewolf ever in history has worried if it can stay in form long enough to get it's next sack. Is always been a fear that they won't be able to stop killing

As of now I spend 3 sec eating to gain 10 seconds of form

Get rid of the short timer and leave a hunger meter... While the bar is full you gain buffs. Timer would be long duration 10+ min: turn into something like this:

-When above 75% full receive a 20% damage mitigation and damage buff
-When above 50% full receive 25% reduced sprint/sneak
-When above 25% full 20m personal detection range
-When below 25% werewolf is current status
-When reaching 0 revert form

Eating gains 2.5 minutes, abilities now add more time 15s (feral pounce, pack leader).

Even with these buffs WW still won't be over powered.

in pvp Werewolves will be feared yes... but with buffs to lethal arrow and current fighters guild abilities they are kept in check. The Werewolf is easily spotted and easily countered, as melee creatures the require charging into enemy lines and lack range abilities and defensive capabilities.

In pve the added dps is rectified in situational danger. It is safer to always be further away from almost all bosses because of mechanics. Loss of damage happens from constant movement and readjustments.

This would take stress away and add some more fun! People who want to play as werewolves can, people who hate our kind have many ways to hunt and kill us. Seeing as this is a game I can't see the harm in adding some fun.

Chrlynsch

What if by becoming a werewolf caused a non optional loss of your second bar, thus are only allowed one human skill bar and swapping to bar 2 would change you to werewolf form. No timer or possibly proposed meter above.

This would add a large con and pro to the class. I see werewolves in human all over (with addon) and only see like 2% using it for the form. This would make the skill line a true blessing/curse, notice the word choice of skill line.

Maybe add a debuff after reverting form that won't allow you to transform until your body recovers from the last transformation (30sec max just to stop people from constantly swapping forms).

BEST PART... Allows our ultimate in werewolf form to be freed up for an activation ultimate ability!

Standard werewolf: Increase damage by 15% and health regen by 50% for 20 sec
Pack Leader: Increases health regeneration 50% and damage mitigation by 20% for nearby allies (effect increased on self for each friendly werewolf affected by 50%) for 20 sec
Bezerker Werewolf: Bezerker becomes immune to knock backs/cc, all hits critically hit and do 15% more damage for 20 sec.


@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Oronell

Prothwata wrote: »

I think the main problem we keep coming back to is lack of time in form. The fact that the use of the ultimate doesn't increase your dps really isn't an issue to me as long as we stop feeling STRESSED about the timer. We spend to much time being focused on the timer instead of focusing on the kill.

Let's put it this way, what werewolf ever in history has worried if it can stay in form long enough to get it's next sack. Is always been a fear that they won't be able to stop killing

As of now I spend 3 sec eating to gain 10 seconds of form

Agreed. The stress of trying to stay transformed ruins the experience for me. Its not fun at all.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

I like the new WW abilities a lot, but I hate the fact I have to eat corpses repeatedly every 10sec otherwise I lose my transformation. If they want to keep the duration of WW that short, Devour should at least resset the WW timer back to 30sec .

biodragon

@Prothwata‌
This one observing werewolf evolution in this game since beginning and they need 6 months to simply add 3 skills and some minor changes (from development point of view) so Bio don't think that stone heads in ZOS change anything except numbers in that skills, at least not in next 6 months.

This one is not PvPer, but in theory: more time for heavy hit = less need to use it when no corpses around = less chances for enemy (it also works for boss/elite fight).

Chrlynsch

biodragon wrote: »

@Prothwata‌
This one observing werewolf evolution in this game since beginning and they need 6 months to simply add 3 skills and some minor changes (from development point of view) so Bio don't think that stone heads in ZOS change anything except numbers in that skills, at least not in next 6 months.

This one is not PvPer, but in theory: more time for heavy hit = less need to use it when no corpses around = less chances for enemy (it also works for boss/elite fight).

I have no idea what you said... but I like the way you said it.

EarthpacShakur

I think the werewolf tree should do more when you're human. What if they changed it so you had to slot werewolf abilities onto your normal bar but made it so the abilities had counterparts for human form? For example human form pounce might have half the range and cost a bit more stamina and human form howl might have a shorter radius/ duration. I personally would love being able to still howl in human form.

risen1981

I think no one i've talked want that timer, why do they not listen?! Really frustrating!

Wolfchild07

I think people have the right idea with the toggle, please do that.

On another note...the heavy attack...why am i clapping my hands together? It really is terrible, sorry. When you go up against enemy werewolves in pve their heavy attacks are a "barrage of claws". It does about 6 hits in succession, I think. Please implement this for us, it looks SO much better than clapping my hands for the enemy.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Wolfchild07 wrote: »

I think people have the right idea with the toggle, please do that.

On another note...the heavy attack...why am i clapping my hands together? It really is terrible, sorry. When you go up against enemy werewolves in pve their heavy attacks are a "barrage of claws". It does about 6 hits in succession, I think. Please implement this for us, it looks SO much better than clapping my hands for the enemy.

1) The Heavy Attack, is actualy a grab followed by some kind of bite which ends with a claw rip if you turn the camera quickly around. But with the recent modifications, the AoE component of the heavy attacks makes no sense at all, so the animation could use a rework.

2) The barrage of claws isn't a heavy attack, it's an channeled ability done by some of the werewolves and in no way should it be tight to our heavy attack but rather an ability.