Ideas to make Cyrodiil ready for Consoles

spoqster

I have spent some more time in Cyrodiil for the first time last week, and it has become very clear to me that the current PVP is system is not compatible with console players.

Here are my thoughts:

• The current system allows for complex battles and strategies - which is great - but requires for teams to be coordinated above all. A well coordinated group of 20 people will be able to win almost every battle, no matter how many players stand against them.
• My hypothesis is that console players will NOT organize in guilds. We are not looking at traditional MMO players here, but at players who are used to Call of Duty, Halo, Destiny and fore and foremost classic single player Elder Scrolls games. These players will likely have one or two friends they regularly play with, but most of them are too casual to embrace the guild philosophy.

I have a good feeling that the upcoming Imperial City area will be great for console players, but Cyrodiil is at the heart of their original design and I think it can be improved to be enjoyable on consoles. Here are a few ideas.


Built-in Military Command Structure
One possibility is to force players into a military command structure upon entering the Alliance War. The current system already has vanity ranks, why not make them operational?

• The alliance commander is always the player with the highest rank. If two or more players have the highest rank, the player with the most AP points will be the commander.
• Depending on the number of alliance players inside one campaign at a given time the command hierarchy is automatically structured in a smart way such that all players are covered. The commander commands a group of officers who in turn command soldiers.
• A simple example: For a simple example let's assume a very low population of 401 people (my system can be scaled up at will). In this case 400 players would be divided into 20 groups of 20 players each. Each group will have a lieutenant who commands it, and these 20 lieutenants will each be in a second group led by the alliance commander. So the commander will be the leader of one group consisting of himself and the 20 lieutenants, the officers each will be in two groups, one in which they are commanded and one in which they are commanding, and soldiers will only be in one group where they are being commanded.
• The officers are the players with the next highest ranks or most AP points.
• The algorithms need to be smart enough to handle incoming players with higher ranks than current officers. A command should not be taken away from a player, so even high ranking players will be soldiers when they log in late, but they should be pulled out of their soldier role as soon as more players log in and a new officer is needed.
• The more players are online, the more hierarchy levels are necessary. The system should automatically adjust the hierarchy to the number of players.
• Players should be able to opt out of the military. It's fine if they just want to log on and do some ganking or PVE.
• Players should be allowed to opt out of the command hierarchy. Some players have lots of AP because they are great players, but don't like being commanders. These players can opt out of the command structure and just stay soldiers. The system should feature medals to reward those players for exceptional deeds.
• Going forward, ranks should be adjusted so that they are not purely awarded according to AP, but by how well you as an officer fulfill the objectives set by your commander. For example a player who is not good at combat could rise up the ranks by being a great commander.
• The next gen consoles have voice chat built in and are not compatible with Teamspeak/Mumble. This offers a great opportunity, by putting players automatically into voice chat with their group, officers being in two voice chat groups at the same time, listening to both simultaneously, but switching their voice input between the groups (they will need to command much more in one group and listen in the other).
• Players who do not comply with their orders can be kicked out of their groups and face penalties.

Advantages of this system:

• Gameplay will be much more fun because it is more organized, and players have the feeling they are part of something.
• It provides incentives for players to earn ranks and AP because they will want to move up inside the command structure.
• It provides incentives for players to log in early (and thus a lot) to be assigned command roles they would not get with their AP when signing in late.

A Built-in Dueling System
With Cyrodiil being military content and Imperial City being small group and pirate content there is still room for pure single player PVP content. Dueling has become very popular in recent weeks and it is no surprise that it has. Many players have improved and honed their builds, are able to solo much of the group content (there is a video on youtube of someone soloing Veteran Darkshade Caverns!) and now want to put their solo builds and playing skills to the test against other players.

Yes, there are dueling guilds on both the EU and NA server, but I believe a system that is build in to the game, that allows for leagues, tournaments, ranks and rewards will be appealing to many, many players.


These are just my five cents. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on this!

Insurrektion

FF14 is on console and pc, on the same servers as there are not separate servers for each. There are no problems with players joining guilds or pvp. The biggest complaint of console players is tab-targeting will not always optimize the target they want right away. If the look/move system is bound to the thumbsticks and they get the cursor just as we do on the pc, this problem won't be an issue.

tl;dr there shouldn't be any problems. People who aren't ready for group play wouldn't be interested in an mmo anyway.

AriBoh

kijima

May you receive many awesome's from that ^ post.

spoqster

kijima wrote: »

May you receive many awesome's from that ^ post.

Thanks! But so far I only got LOLs, so maybe I am not hitting the nerve of the player base here.

Vatter

This game barely runs on a p.c.
Who the (snip) would buy this trash pile for a console?

spoqster

Vatter wrote: »

This game barely runs on a p.c.
Who the (snip) would buy this trash pile for a console?

Why do you spend time on this forum if you don't like the game?

yiasemi

Get rid of all reading material. Motifs don't need an amusing Bridget Jones Goes to Tamriel storyline, just change the book icon to something vaguely connected with the style (like a cartoon green pig for the Orc Motif). Having poor peasants in each town huddled round piles of burning tomes would be great. Then all those redundant shelves in towns and dungeons can be filled with interesting decor that provides a pleasant backdrop for fighting.

Gidorick

I do agree that this game isn't suited for console play... but I don't think they will make separate game design decisions for the two versions. If they make changes, it'll be for BOTH versions of the game.

spoqster

Gidorick wrote: »

I do agree that this game isn't suited for console play... but I don't think they will make separate game design decisions for the two versions. If they make changes, it'll be for BOTH versions of the game.

Obviously my suggestions where for both versions.

stewie_801

spoqster wrote: »

• The current system allows for complex battles and strategies - which is great - but requires for teams to be coordinated above all. A well coordinated group of 20 people will be able to win almost every battle, no matter how many players stand against them.
• My hypothesis is that console players will NOT organize in guilds. We are not looking at traditional MMO players here, but at players who are used to Call of Duty, Halo, Destiny and fore and foremost classic single player Elder Scrolls games. These players will likely have one or two friends they regularly play with, but most of them are too casual to embrace the guild philosophy.

Agree with the first point completely. With the 2nd, like @Insurrektion‌ said, FFXIV console players don't have a problem with joining into guilds/pvp. Same with DCUO and them joining into leagues and PVP.

I've played console MMO's and PC MMO's and console players have never had an issue joining into guilds and doing organized pvp where strategy was needed, in my experience anyways. So I don't believe it will be an issue.

Some will have to learn if it ends up being their first MMO, and just like on ESO's PC version now, some do, some don't. It's their choice for running with organized groups. Some don't ant to do it. It'll be the same on consoles. But plenty will figure out that organized and coordinated groups will do far better and mean more for a battle.

Hopefully the built in comms helps with this, I know it's nice to have for other console MMO's, but time will tell. However I do think most people forget that there are and have been many MMO's on the consoles. Just not as many or as big as the PC's have had. There will be traditional MMO players on the consoles to help those who it is there first MMO.

AngryNord

Or the best idea: Scrap the console port crap, so we can get a PROPER game on the PC, with a PROPER ui...

Loneshard

I miss a lot of information that the standard game does not show!
But with many nice addons/mods you can configure the game how you like, that make life easier!

How do console players get the addons / mods?

stewie_801

Loneshard wrote: »

I miss a lot of information that the standard game does not show!
But with many nice addons/mods you can configure the game how you like, that make life easier!

How do console players get the addons / mods?

They don't. Sony and Microsoft haven't allowed addon/mods before, so unless they change their mind, console players won't get any.

Loneshard

stewie_801 wrote: »

Loneshard wrote: »

I miss a lot of information that the standard game does not show!
But with many nice addons/mods you can configure the game how you like, that make life easier!

How do console players get the addons / mods?

They don't. Sony and Microsoft haven't allowed addon/mods before, so unless they change their mind, console players won't get any.

That is very bad for console gamers !

Hypertionb14_ESO

fun fact.

Keyboards have worked on Consoles at least as long as since the PS2

Final Fantasy 11 started out only on the PS2, then ported to PC and later on Xbox 360

from the start you could use a Keyboard on that game.. any USB keyboard.

i expect that ESO will offer the same, as even outside of games you can use Keyboards on both Xbox360 and PS3 and i am assuming their USB equipped successors.

spoqster

stewie_801 wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

• The current system allows for complex battles and strategies - which is great - but requires for teams to be coordinated above all. A well coordinated group of 20 people will be able to win almost every battle, no matter how many players stand against them.
• My hypothesis is that console players will NOT organize in guilds. We are not looking at traditional MMO players here, but at players who are used to Call of Duty, Halo, Destiny and fore and foremost classic single player Elder Scrolls games. These players will likely have one or two friends they regularly play with, but most of them are too casual to embrace the guild philosophy.

Agree with the first point completely. With the 2nd, like @Insurrektion‌ said, FFXIV console players don't have a problem with joining into guilds/pvp. Same with DCUO and them joining into leagues and PVP.

I've played console MMO's and PC MMO's and console players have never had an issue joining into guilds and doing organized pvp where strategy was needed, in my experience anyways. So I don't believe it will be an issue.

Some will have to learn if it ends up being their first MMO, and just like on ESO's PC version now, some do, some don't. It's their choice for running with organized groups. Some don't ant to do it. It'll be the same on consoles. But plenty will figure out that organized and coordinated groups will do far better and mean more for a battle.

Hopefully the built in comms helps with this, I know it's nice to have for other console MMO's, but time will tell. However I do think most people forget that there are and have been many MMO's on the consoles. Just not as many or as big as the PC's have had. There will be traditional MMO players on the consoles to help those who it is there first MMO.

The whole point of my elaborations is that it's possible to create an organized pvp experience without requiring players to join guilds.

Mountain_Dewed

Can I say something?

Pallmor

Gedalya

Please do not nerf console version because of mistaken belief that console players less interested in nuance in games. Also, PvP in ESO is not complex; is not nuanced; is not going to be a turn-off for console players as it stands. If anything more depth is needed.

Pallmor

AngryNord wrote: »

Or the best idea: Scrap the console port crap, so we can get a PROPER game on the PC, with a PROPER ui...

If by "proper" UI, you mean a WoW-type UI that looks more like a control panel on the bridge of the Enterprise than an immersive fantasy world, then forget it. I DO NOT want to play an MMO with three hundred skill slots, numbers flying across the screen like some sort of out-of-control spreadsheet application, and every player obsessing over their DPS like a coked-up baseball statistician.

Tankqull

Pallmor wrote: »

AngryNord wrote: »

Or the best idea: Scrap the console port crap, so we can get a PROPER game on the PC, with a PROPER ui...

If by "proper" UI, you mean a WoW-type UI that looks more like a control panel on the bridge of the Enterprise than an immersive fantasy world, then forget it. I DO NOT want to play an MMO with three hundred skill slots, numbers flying across the screen like some sort of out-of-control spreadsheet application, and every player obsessing over their DPS like a coked-up baseball statistician.

no its about the option of having the given ui elements movable to a position someone prefers.
its about getting information on a reliable way, spell cues not being displayed thx to particle effect issues or acustic hints not being played at all thx to a not working sound engine without offering a API option is just garbage.
they said they dont want the player to play the ui - but missed their goal compleatly when you are playing a healer with a stock grp frame positioned in a horrible position without beeing able to move it and with the most awefull animation i´ve faced in 20years of playing mmos wich forces one to constantly concentrate only on the group frame as it is completly impossible to track it with a peripheral view.
you don´t like flying numbers fine i can live without that aslong as i´m able to recapitualate a fight via a fully functional battle log. not existing - wich is a great way to camouflage the tons of bugs this game suffers from.
and you can go on and on with that list.
the ui is not immersive or what ever. it is garbage. it is so much reduced in its information that you can skip it entirely (as wykkyd full immersion mod has proven) without losing anything as you don´t get any worthwhile information from it at all anyway.


but back on topic.
the console port i believe will still take a long time to go as the current generation of consoles is unable to run cyrodiil with more than 50 persons being involved.

spoqster

Mountain_Dewed wrote: »

Can I say something?

Go ahead.