Grocer = Useless

Evandus

starkerealm wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

It seems to me that the reason the hirelings are programmed the way they are is due to crafting mule use by players. For example I know and know of a lot of people who have 1-2 characters they play, then 6-7 alts that are holding items and picking up daily tier 2/3 mats from hirelings.

I'm not sure the devs are going to be inclined to change the system to benefit us more due to this practice. For awhile, there were even tutorial videos on youtube showing people how to do this.

I may be mistaken, but weren't hierlings the reason given that players couldn't buy additional character slots, at one point?

It sounds like you know something I do not. Not sure if that was the reason. At least, I've no memory or reading it anywhere.

morvegil

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

Janduin wrote: »

Random Number Generator pulling from a table of percentages. Its not broken, just bad luck. Some have a higher chance than others. RNG is...random.

Random would be nice. I'd love to see random. But every other day I'm all but guaranteed one of my two provender hireling mails will contain

2 Juniper Berries
2 Canis Root
2 Snowberries

Exactly that. This is easily 30% of the mails I receive. I get that's it's a slot in the table. But what are there, 3 entries in the table?

I GET THE SAME ***!!!

Gedalya

I suspect with the grapes and hopes s/he is trying to subtly give you a hint that you should be making a good brew.

starkerealm

Evandus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

It seems to me that the reason the hirelings are programmed the way they are is due to crafting mule use by players. For example I know and know of a lot of people who have 1-2 characters they play, then 6-7 alts that are holding items and picking up daily tier 2/3 mats from hirelings.

I'm not sure the devs are going to be inclined to change the system to benefit us more due to this practice. For awhile, there were even tutorial videos on youtube showing people how to do this.

I may be mistaken, but weren't hierlings the reason given that players couldn't buy additional character slots, at one point?

It sounds like you know something I do not. Not sure if that was the reason. At least, I've no memory or reading it anywhere.

I kinda remember it coming up in a Dev Q&A back in... May? Like I said though, I could be wrong.

Kartalin

Woo! Got a tomato, potato, onion delivery today. First non-hop medley or grape medley in a month!

Evandus

starkerealm wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

It seems to me that the reason the hirelings are programmed the way they are is due to crafting mule use by players. For example I know and know of a lot of people who have 1-2 characters they play, then 6-7 alts that are holding items and picking up daily tier 2/3 mats from hirelings.

I'm not sure the devs are going to be inclined to change the system to benefit us more due to this practice. For awhile, there were even tutorial videos on youtube showing people how to do this.

I may be mistaken, but weren't hierlings the reason given that players couldn't buy additional character slots, at one point?

It sounds like you know something I do not. Not sure if that was the reason. At least, I've no memory or reading it anywhere.

I kinda remember it coming up in a Dev Q&A back in... May? Like I said though, I could be wrong.

No worries there, I'll take you at your word on that one.

Nestor

Evandus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

It seems to me that the reason the hirelings are programmed the way they are is due to crafting mule use by players. For example I know and know of a lot of people who have 1-2 characters they play, then 6-7 alts that are holding items and picking up daily tier 2/3 mats from hirelings.

I'm not sure the devs are going to be inclined to change the system to benefit us more due to this practice. For awhile, there were even tutorial videos on youtube showing people how to do this.

I may be mistaken, but weren't hierlings the reason given that players couldn't buy additional character slots, at one point?

It sounds like you know something I do not. Not sure if that was the reason. At least, I've no memory or reading it anywhere.

It is the most common reason stated by folks posting in the various "Why can't we have more character slots?" threads. I don't think ZOS has ever said this.

It makes sense if it is one of the reasons that they want to limit hirelings.

MasterSpatula

I have so many tomatoes I could brew a pot of marinara the size of Balmorra, but I have never received oats.

Kartalin

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I have so many tomatoes I could brew a pot of marinara the size of Balmorra, but I have never received oats.

I would be interested in trading all of my oats (which is like 12) for an equal number of tomatoes if you are on NA AD side.

MasterSpatula

milthalas wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I have so many tomatoes I could brew a pot of marinara the size of Balmorra, but I have never received oats.

I would be interested in trading all of my oats (which is like 12) for an equal number of tomatoes if you are on NA AD side.

I have a character on all sides @milthalas. If you would trust me to do it by mail, you could send it to me any time and I'll hit you back as soon as I get on. Otherwise, probably not until the weekend. My work schedule is bug-nuts insane this week.

abigfishy

Is this thread just sour grapes? :P

dan0311

Glad to see someone pointed out that there is a grocer in Coldharbour in the Hollow City. They are just not marked...not even a "Grocer" label over their heads. There is a shady character hanging out by the underpass in Sentinel, too. I think he also sells weed and meth.

I believe that the 63g price tag for Pinguis and all that stuff exists for this reason: Once you are past VR5 every level has the same ingredients, and in massive quantities. Tons of Mudcrab Meat, Honey Comb, etc. At that point, you probably have also been hoarding ingredients to make the Blue and Purple recipes. So when you finally get decent Blue and Purple recipes, if everyone made and sold everything that they potentially could make and sell, the market would be flooded with cheap food and drink. With no investment and too much product chasing not enough money, the prices would plummet.

However, by forcing you to pay 63g for the VR5 Secondary Ingredients, those without the skill points invested to make multiple servings have to pay 63g for each meal or drink they make. I haven't checked guild stores lately, but i doubt you could make your money back after paying that much for ingredients. I think it is done to support the value of the stuff and to avoid a glut on the market.

Of course, if the previous poster who is in possession of all those Tomatoes and Oats every unleashes the full weight of his Provisioning Prowess on Tamriel, it will crash the market anyway. :-) As the actor said, please sir...hold your tomatoes a little longer.

Reminds me of a joke...A beautiful country girl (picture Daisy Duke) goes to a dealership and buys a car. When asked to pay, she brings out jar after jar of quarters. The dealer asks "My gosh, ma'am...how long have you been hoarding these quarters?" Daisy looks at him shyly and says "Well, sir, to be honest, my sister hoard half of 'em"

Works better spoken. Try it on your friends.

Demira

Nestor wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

It seems to me that the reason the hirelings are programmed the way they are is due to crafting mule use by players. For example I know and know of a lot of people who have 1-2 characters they play, then 6-7 alts that are holding items and picking up daily tier 2/3 mats from hirelings.

I'm not sure the devs are going to be inclined to change the system to benefit us more due to this practice. For awhile, there were even tutorial videos on youtube showing people how to do this.

I may be mistaken, but weren't hierlings the reason given that players couldn't buy additional character slots, at one point?

It sounds like you know something I do not. Not sure if that was the reason. At least, I've no memory or reading it anywhere.

It is the most common reason stated by folks posting in the various "Why can't we have more character slots?" threads. I don't think ZOS has ever said this.

It makes sense if it is one of the reasons that they want to limit hirelings.

In the last ESO Live, ZoS stated that there was no plans for more character slots.

HeroOfEvbof

I have four toons with 3/3 provisioning hirelings. I will admit that five of my eight mails a day are drink, and of those very, very little saaz hop.
However, I have built up a storage of 200 Tomatoes (I barely if ever make a purple soup) despite having sold/donated over 50 of them.
I am currently low on Oats because my main will only eat purple sweetrolls. I crush skulls but never run out of sweet rolls. By low I mean just around 80. I wish I never sold a bunch, but the price at the time was 650g each so I hit that.
The RNG is a very harsh mistress. You almost never have a day of "Wow, look at all these Oats and Red Wheat", but can very easily have a day of "WTF, eight mails with grapes, hops and berries?"

Amsel_McKay

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

SlayerSyrena wrote: »

And why is the Imperial Flour and etc at the grocer so expensive per item?

Any time you ask why "X" is so expensive (or why that sword you paid 2500 for is now worth 38) in an online game the answer is almost always the same...

(All together now) "It's a gold sink!"

If they don't suck the money out of the economy before very long the established players are all walking around with 10,000,000 gold in their bank accounts (or what ever max gold is) and new players won't be able to buy even one pepper or green enchanted item let alone a stack of ingredients because it'll be 5,000 for that flour in the market.

Its more then 13,004,046

Naivefanboi

agreed ive been feeling the same way about my grocer for awhile now. time to drop his lazy butt!

AlexDougherty

HeroOfEvbof wrote: »

I have four toons with 3/3 provisioning hirelings. I will admit that five of my eight mails a day are drink, and of those very, very little saaz hop.
However, I have built up a storage of 200 Tomatoes (I barely if ever make a purple soup) despite having sold/donated over 50 of them.
I am currently low on Oats because my main will only eat purple sweetrolls. I crush skulls but never run out of sweet rolls. By low I mean just around 80. I wish I never sold a bunch, but the price at the time was 650g each so I hit that.
The RNG is a very harsh mistress. You almost never have a day of "Wow, look at all these Oats and Red Wheat", but can very easily have a day of "WTF, eight mails with grapes, hops and berries?"

Actually I sometimes get Red Wheat, it's the only rare ingredient I do get.
Just wish I got Tomatoes too.

Nestor

HeroOfEvbof wrote: »

You almost never have a day of "Wow, look at all these Oats and Red Wheat"

I am really glad that I have collected all the Red Wheat that I have seen from containers as I have gone along. Even though I stopped provisioning a long time ago (needed the skill points for combat) I have been collecting things like Garlic, Pepper, Red Wheat, stocks of various kinds and the various flours.

xaraan

until they change drinks to be useful, they just need to take the drink ingredients out of hireling deliveries.

AlexDougherty

xaraan wrote: »

until they change drinks to be useful, they just need to take the drink ingredients out of hireling deliveries.

Um, some people use the drinks, as you increase in attributes (pre 1.5 anyway) the food becomes less useful and drink becomes more so.

Not there yet myself, but plenty of VR12 and higher have said so in threads.

xaraan

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

until they change drinks to be useful, they just need to take the drink ingredients out of hireling deliveries.

Um, some people use the drinks, as you increase in attributes (pre 1.5 anyway) the food becomes less useful and drink becomes more so.

Not there yet myself, but plenty of VR12 and higher have said so in threads.

I don't know anyone that would choose to add 8 recovery over 300 points on a stat. Not saying there isn't any, but most all our guild is max vet and no one uses it.

Granted, I was exaggerating when I said that. But most people aren't going to use grapes and crap, if they do, we probably have plenty we could send you. I actually delete all mine when I get them from the hireling at this point.

AlexDougherty

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

until they change drinks to be useful, they just need to take the drink ingredients out of hireling deliveries.

Um, some people use the drinks, as you increase in attributes (pre 1.5 anyway) the food becomes less useful and drink becomes more so.

Not there yet myself, but plenty of VR12 and higher have said so in threads.

I don't know anyone that would choose to add 8 recovery over 300 points on a stat. Not saying there isn't any, but most all our guild is max vet and no one uses it.

Granted, I was exaggerating when I said that. But most people aren't going to use grapes and crap, if they do, we probably have plenty we could send you. I actually delete all mine when I get them from the hireling at this point.

Ok, lets see if I can explain it, baring in mind I'm not there yet myself.

As your stats increase, you hit the caps, eventually the 300 Points buff is capped to maybe 50. Meanwhile the drinks give you 8 points per second recovery, which over the course of a hard fight will be more than the 50 points from food.

But you have to get to the higher levels to get it, remember you get higher level increases from VR12 Glyphs than VR1 Glyphs too. And it kind of depends on what how you spent your attribute points.


But as I said, I'm not there yet, so drink is as useless to me at the moment as it is to you.

Nestor

xaraan wrote: »

I don't know anyone that would choose to add 8 recovery

Playing around with Rings and Necklaces, it is not until I get to 30 points or more in Regen Buffs that I have an appreciable difference in combat keeping my stats up. I used to think that Regen buffs were good, but other than one exception, not any more.

That exception is Sea of Flames with the DK, enough regen and that can be kept up for minutes, as long as you are not spamming other magic skills at the same time. Even then, it does increase the effective duration of that skill even when using other magic skills.

However for now, I go all cost reduction on jewelry.

xaraan

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

until they change drinks to be useful, they just need to take the drink ingredients out of hireling deliveries.

Um, some people use the drinks, as you increase in attributes (pre 1.5 anyway) the food becomes less useful and drink becomes more so.

Not there yet myself, but plenty of VR12 and higher have said so in threads.

I don't know anyone that would choose to add 8 recovery over 300 points on a stat. Not saying there isn't any, but most all our guild is max vet and no one uses it.

Granted, I was exaggerating when I said that. But most people aren't going to use grapes and crap, if they do, we probably have plenty we could send you. I actually delete all mine when I get them from the hireling at this point.

Ok, lets see if I can explain it, baring in mind I'm not there yet myself.

As your stats increase, you hit the caps, eventually the 300 Points buff is capped to maybe 50. Meanwhile the drinks give you 8 points per second recovery, which over the course of a hard fight will be more than the 50 points from food.

But you have to get to the higher levels to get it, remember you get higher level increases from VR12 Glyphs than VR1 Glyphs too. And it kind of depends on what how you spent your attribute points.


But as I said, I'm not there yet, so drink is as useless to me at the moment as it is to you.

ok, wow -- a lot of players (that I run into in the game) seem to really get overly concerned on softcaps. Hitting softcap does not mean stop IMO unless you are getting a really really low return. And there won't be very many players that will get 50 from a 300 food, if any. I have several vet14 characters with different things in softcap before eating food, some well into softcap and I still get about 75% of the value of the food. That's still way more valuable to me than 8 recovery.

Having a couple hundred more points in all three stats (or just two depending on food) and being able to cast one more thing or dodge one more thing or take a couple hundred more damage pays off for me more often than seeing how long a tick of 8 will add up to do that when it's crunch time.

Edit: also want to add, speaking on the case of player use - I've sold various prov stuff in major guild store for a while now and food moves quick, even at price. Drinks however don't sell, even at crazy low prices vs food.

AlexDougherty

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

until they change drinks to be useful, they just need to take the drink ingredients out of hireling deliveries.

Um, some people use the drinks, as you increase in attributes (pre 1.5 anyway) the food becomes less useful and drink becomes more so.

Not there yet myself, but plenty of VR12 and higher have said so in threads.

I don't know anyone that would choose to add 8 recovery over 300 points on a stat. Not saying there isn't any, but most all our guild is max vet and no one uses it.

Granted, I was exaggerating when I said that. But most people aren't going to use grapes and crap, if they do, we probably have plenty we could send you. I actually delete all mine when I get them from the hireling at this point.

Ok, lets see if I can explain it, baring in mind I'm not there yet myself.

As your stats increase, you hit the caps, eventually the 300 Points buff is capped to maybe 50. Meanwhile the drinks give you 8 points per second recovery, which over the course of a hard fight will be more than the 50 points from food.

But you have to get to the higher levels to get it, remember you get higher level increases from VR12 Glyphs than VR1 Glyphs too. And it kind of depends on what how you spent your attribute points.


But as I said, I'm not there yet, so drink is as useless to me at the moment as it is to you.

ok, wow -- a lot of players (that I run into in the game) seem to really get overly concerned on softcaps. Hitting softcap does not mean stop IMO unless you are getting a really really low return. And there won't be very many players that will get 50 from a 300 food, if any. I have several vet14 characters with different things in softcap before eating food, some well into softcap and I still get about 75% of the value of the food. That's still way more valuable to me than 8 recovery.

Having a couple hundred more points in all three stats (or just two depending on food) and being able to cast one more thing or dodge one more thing or take a couple hundred more damage pays off for me more often than seeing how long a tick of 8 will add up to do that when it's crunch time.

I was just using the numbers you gave, and I was exaggerating it a touch. But that is the arguements I seen in favour of using drink buffs. Which is why ZOS won't get rid of drink mats from the hirelings.

I don't worry too much about soft caps myself, if an attribute is good, I see no reason not to extend it.

xaraan

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

until they change drinks to be useful, they just need to take the drink ingredients out of hireling deliveries.

Um, some people use the drinks, as you increase in attributes (pre 1.5 anyway) the food becomes less useful and drink becomes more so.

Not there yet myself, but plenty of VR12 and higher have said so in threads.

I don't know anyone that would choose to add 8 recovery over 300 points on a stat. Not saying there isn't any, but most all our guild is max vet and no one uses it.

Granted, I was exaggerating when I said that. But most people aren't going to use grapes and crap, if they do, we probably have plenty we could send you. I actually delete all mine when I get them from the hireling at this point.

Ok, lets see if I can explain it, baring in mind I'm not there yet myself.

As your stats increase, you hit the caps, eventually the 300 Points buff is capped to maybe 50. Meanwhile the drinks give you 8 points per second recovery, which over the course of a hard fight will be more than the 50 points from food.

But you have to get to the higher levels to get it, remember you get higher level increases from VR12 Glyphs than VR1 Glyphs too. And it kind of depends on what how you spent your attribute points.


But as I said, I'm not there yet, so drink is as useless to me at the moment as it is to you.

ok, wow -- a lot of players (that I run into in the game) seem to really get overly concerned on softcaps. Hitting softcap does not mean stop IMO unless you are getting a really really low return. And there won't be very many players that will get 50 from a 300 food, if any. I have several vet14 characters with different things in softcap before eating food, some well into softcap and I still get about 75% of the value of the food. That's still way more valuable to me than 8 recovery.

Having a couple hundred more points in all three stats (or just two depending on food) and being able to cast one more thing or dodge one more thing or take a couple hundred more damage pays off for me more often than seeing how long a tick of 8 will add up to do that when it's crunch time.

I was just using the numbers you gave, and I was exaggerating it a touch. But that is the arguements I seen in favour of using drink buffs. Which is why ZOS won't get rid of drink mats from the hirelings.

I don't worry too much about soft caps myself, if an attribute is good, I see no reason not to extend it.

Oh yea, I don't actually expect them to get rid of them. Just think they should make drinks a bit more useful or change the rate of deliveries a bit in the favor of food. From a selling standpoint I can guarantee food gets used, even at max vet level, a ton more than drinks.

AlexDougherty

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

until they change drinks to be useful, they just need to take the drink ingredients out of hireling deliveries.

Um, some people use the drinks, as you increase in attributes (pre 1.5 anyway) the food becomes less useful and drink becomes more so.

Not there yet myself, but plenty of VR12 and higher have said so in threads.

I don't know anyone that would choose to add 8 recovery over 300 points on a stat. Not saying there isn't any, but most all our guild is max vet and no one uses it.

Granted, I was exaggerating when I said that. But most people aren't going to use grapes and crap, if they do, we probably have plenty we could send you. I actually delete all mine when I get them from the hireling at this point.

Ok, lets see if I can explain it, baring in mind I'm not there yet myself.

As your stats increase, you hit the caps, eventually the 300 Points buff is capped to maybe 50. Meanwhile the drinks give you 8 points per second recovery, which over the course of a hard fight will be more than the 50 points from food.

But you have to get to the higher levels to get it, remember you get higher level increases from VR12 Glyphs than VR1 Glyphs too. And it kind of depends on what how you spent your attribute points.


But as I said, I'm not there yet, so drink is as useless to me at the moment as it is to you.

ok, wow -- a lot of players (that I run into in the game) seem to really get overly concerned on softcaps. Hitting softcap does not mean stop IMO unless you are getting a really really low return. And there won't be very many players that will get 50 from a 300 food, if any. I have several vet14 characters with different things in softcap before eating food, some well into softcap and I still get about 75% of the value of the food. That's still way more valuable to me than 8 recovery.

Having a couple hundred more points in all three stats (or just two depending on food) and being able to cast one more thing or dodge one more thing or take a couple hundred more damage pays off for me more often than seeing how long a tick of 8 will add up to do that when it's crunch time.

I was just using the numbers you gave, and I was exaggerating it a touch. But that is the arguements I seen in favour of using drink buffs. Which is why ZOS won't get rid of drink mats from the hirelings.

I don't worry too much about soft caps myself, if an attribute is good, I see no reason not to extend it.

Oh yea, I don't actually expect them to get rid of them. Just think they should make drinks a bit more useful or change the rate of deliveries a bit in the favor of food. From a selling standpoint I can guarantee food gets used, even at max vet level, a ton more than drinks.

Agreed.

Nestor

xaraan wrote: »

Oh yea, I don't actually expect them to get rid of them. Just think they should make drinks a bit more useful or change the rate of deliveries a bit in the favor of food. From a selling standpoint I can guarantee food gets used, even at max vet level, a ton more than drinks.

If they were to make the Regen values in the 30 to to 40 range, then it would be tougher choice to make between food and drink.

Otherwise, regen is just something that allows me to wait less time to go after the next mob.

MornaBaine

milthalas wrote: »

Raygee wrote: »

About the provisioning hirelings: why don't we also get these "Pinguis" (whatever that is), or Imperial Stock and such? They are also ingredients for purple food, but the prices are so high that it's almost as painful as waiting for the hireling-oats and tomatoes to be delivered.

I agree about the oats and tomatoes and hirelings being their only source, but pinguis, imperial stock, and other "2nd" ingredients can be bought at a grocer for 63g each The catch is you have to at least be in your second alliance, Cadwell's silver, to find a grocer that has those ingredients. But I think it's not a bad price.

You could also try guild traders.

Actually I buy pinguis and imperial stock at the grocer in Coldharbor... which I THINK I was able to do before hitting 50. But yeah that stuff is spendy and I REALLY resent getting all the damn drink ingredients. Until they FINALLY make drinks stack with food they should REALLY knock that (pick your censored word here) off!