Where's the "I" in Team?

markbonafeub17_ESO

I'm really enjoying ESO, but there are some things about it that bother me. The biggest problem is that it doesn't really promote team play. A recent poll on this very forum confirms this. Every character you create can perform just as well in every area as the last. It really doesn't matter what type of character you create because they're all nearly identical.

I'd rather play a game where, at some point, a mix of classes is REQUIRED before moving on. I mean, except for the truly masterful players - there are always some that are amazing - you should HAVE to team up to continue the quest line. As it is, a magic based character is just as survivable as a fighting character. ... makes sense if you don't think about it. This is an MMO, after all. Team play should be paramount.

I want the game I play to be the opposite of that. I want the game to present obstacles that a fighter cannot overcome without the help of a mage. And a mage will require the help of a fighter just to survive. I want the game to make healers VERY helpful - if not required - for much of the game. There should be points in the game where, if you don't have a thief to sneak (scout) around - disarming traps - you WILL die (especially without a healer).

Now - some things I'm really looking forward to: The Justice system! Awesome. The Champion system. Equally as awesome. The Dark Brotherhood quest line. Bring it on. I'll be playing this game for a long time. But if someone develops a game like the one I just described - I'll leave ESO in the dust.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

If they made the changes you mentioned this game would be dead-in-the-water in less than a weak. If you think finding a group in Craglorn is bad now just try doing it for EVERY quest, dungeon, etc. in the three alliance areas.

ers101284b14_ESO

markbonafeub17_ESO

cgipervert wrote: »

If they made the changes you mentioned this game would be dead-in-the-water in less than a weak. If you think finding a group in Craglorn is bad now just try doing it for EVERY quest, dungeon, etc. in the three alliance areas.

Have you ever thought that finding a group is difficult precisely because it is completely unnecessary?

markbonafeub17_ESO

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

That is funny as h3ll!

CoolsHisHands

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

You win +1 Internets.

khele23eb17_ESO

Have to agree. Ever since GW2 Ive realized that the 'everyone is self sufficient' model of MMOs is just not working for me. You get shallow gameplay mechanics due to few cross-character synergies and people playing next to each other rather than with each other. In fact Im waiting for someone to go the opposite way and try to introduce new roles into MMOs, expanding the trinity into... well, whatever you might call a game system with 4 or 5 distinct roles.

Aeratus

We do have content that requires skilled and coordinated group-based gameplay. These are vet DSA and Sanctum. To this date, only a small fraction of the game's population have been able to complete them.

Sighlynce

Just wondering something... I see you are definitley a team player ( which is great) and are excited about The Justice System and The Dark Brotherhood quest line (me too !!!) but the game should 'require' a group of at least four (just like a dungeon) in order to play. I know this isn't skyrim (etc) but both of these guilds were in the game and (of course) were soloed , how do you see quests for these guilds being played as a group?

Gythral

It's an MMO, the only thing that matters is the bottom line!!!

(Replace MMO with any product name or type for that matter)

neiljwd

It's about co-ordinating Individuals, not co-ordinate characters.
In a trial you might want 3 of your Destro Staff users having Elelmental Ring Impulse morph, byt you'd definately want one to take the pulsar morph.

Many Incoming Werewolf changes also look like they'll encourage pack play.

markbonafeub17_ESO

letohatcheeub17_ESO wrote: »

Just wondering something... I see you are definitley a team player ( which is great) and are excited about The Justice System and The Dark Brotherhood quest line (me too !!!) but the game should 'require' a group of at least four (just like a dungeon) in order to play. I know this isn't skyrim (etc) but both of these guilds were in the game and (of course) were soloed , how do you see quests for these guilds being played as a group?

I don't. They're just something I'm looking forward to playing. The Justice System, in particular though, may lead to a subset of team play. I can see where a group of players would team up to loot a city and attempt to prevent the "guards" from capturing any thieving types. Likewise, it's easy to see people teaming up to break up such a monopoly.

markbonafeub17_ESO

Gythral wrote: »

It's an MMO, the only thing that matters is the bottom line!!!

(Replace MMO with any product name or type for that matter)

Right. So why are you here again?

Surfinginhawaii

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Brilliant!!!

LunaRae

markbonafeub17_ESO wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

That is funny as h3ll!

I was going to say "me" but his response is better.

ontheleftcoast

cgipervert wrote: »

If they made the changes you mentioned this game would be dead-in-the-water in less than a weak. If you think finding a group in Craglorn is bad now just try doing it for EVERY quest, dungeon, etc. in the three alliance areas.

While not every quest will require a group quite a few more are. It seems the original poster will get their wish with Update 5. Looking thru the notes one thing leapt out at me -- the loss of CC for a slew of already tough monsters -- Daedroth, Liches, Watchers, and Trolls.

This will make playing some quests in the alliances difficult if not impossible to finish without multiple players. I know there's a quest in Bangkorai where you have to fight two Daedroths in the same room. Yeah, it's possible to draw one out at a time but if you mess up (and with the lousy aggro in this game that's almost automatic) it's two Daedroth on one soon to be dead hero. Or how about the multiple troll encounters in the Falenesti Winter site in Grahtwood? Ever try fighting one troll without resorting to CC? How about two?

I get this is an MMO and not Oblivion or Skyrim. But even getting some help to do a dolmen can be frustrating. I wound up soloing the last two dolmens I came across because I couldn't get anyone to help after sending multiple zone requests and waiting more than 10 minutes. Once you get into Cadwell's Silver and Gold the number of players thins out drastically in zones. The only reason I survived the second was I was 3 VR levels higher than the monsters -- another thing they're taking away with monsters leveling to match your level. No more grinding up levels to get ahead of the monsters. Clearly another way Zenimax is trying to get us all to team up rather than go it alone.

Which gets to the underlying problem. The way Zenimax is trying to force team play is simply to make the encounters harder and harder to force a healer, etc. into the mix. Rather than what the OP suggested that a thief sneaking around for traps, or a mage that's required to unlock the magical barrier or perhaps go all Gandalf and put down a barrier to stop an assault, "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" would require them to spend time designing new content. Instead all they've got is "Crank up the difficulty!" and in my opinion that's a poor way to encourage team play.

markbonafeub17_ESO

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

... Rather than what the OP suggested that a thief sneaking around for traps, or a mage that's required to unlock the magical barrier or perhaps go all Gandalf and put down a barrier to stop an assault, "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" would require them to spend time designing new content. Instead all they've got is "Crank up the difficulty!" and in my opinion that's a poor way to encourage team play.

You hit it right on the head, leftcoast. Good post.

rainith2000nub18_ESO

Ummm, where's the "team" in "MMO" or "ESO"?

markbonafeub17_ESO

rainith2000nub18_ESO wrote: »

Ummm, where's the "team" in "MMO" or "ESO"?

Ummm. Where's the relevancy in your post?

rrood41828

It's the same old "can't get up a group" problem. I monked a lot of PUGs in GW1, crying their eyes out for a healer. But once they introduced "heroes" it got a lot easier, since you could customize them and add them if needed to fill out a group. Not everyone likes the idea, but it may come to that in time.

MasterSpatula

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Yep, the "I" in team is the A-hole.

timidobserver

The OP of this thread is pretty interesting. He wants to take the most complained about feature of the game(forced grouping for all activities in craglorn) and apply it to the whole game.

babylon

timidobserver wrote: »

The OP of this thread is pretty interesting. He wants to take the most complained about feature of the game(forced grouping for all activities in craglorn) and apply it to the whole game.

Yeah, we're just going to tell him it's a terrible idea, then ignore him and hope he goes away.

SteveCampsOut

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

You may have beat me to it, but mine is more appropriate to the topic!

Woolenthreads

MMO does not mean "A game uses Teams or large groups" IMO, it means "Players have the opportunity to form Teams or Large Groups". Those are not the same thing.

The problem I see with this game is that the necessary tools for forming and organising groups in ESO are quite stunted. The game also makes keeping the groups together difficult as well as making some of the most frustrating combats solo.

A lot of groups slot PC's into roles based on the character support skill-lines despite the fact that the format means that characters can be developed to perform different roles because the roles are only weakly aligned with the class. Many of those groups reject PC's that have not developed the role that those groups have slotted the character class into, which also makes it difficult to organise groups..

Razzak

Group finding tool definitely needs to get buffed or redesigned. They would be able to make more group oriented content and even solo players would not be so unhappy if LFG tool was working as it should.

Audigy

Aeratus wrote: »

We do have content that requires skilled and coordinated group-based gameplay. These are vet DSA and Sanctum. To this date, only a small fraction of the game's population have been able to complete them.

Which is mostly because of the "Raid" issue. Not everyone has the time to play for hours with a premade every few days during the week.

What the OP however suggested was a group play that happened outside of raids, group play that would be accessible for Casuals.

There could be a cave which needed to be unlocked by a thief, inside the cave would be spiders that poison your char so that a healer would be required to cure it, a magical barrier would block the way so that a mage would be required to dispel it ...

Such common things from games like Ultima don't exist at ESO and this the OP tried to point out.

Nox_Aeterna

timidobserver wrote: »

The OP of this thread is pretty interesting. He wants to take the most complained about feature of the game(forced grouping for all activities in craglorn) and apply it to the whole game.

Pretty much :P.

Having an option to play in small groups or to solo pretty much all the content in this game outside very few and specific things should have been a given since the start of this game.

But there is no point in talking about the same things for the 1000x times , lets just watch zen do their thing hehehe

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

markbonafeub17_ESO wrote: »

Where's the "I" in Team?

The 'G' in MMORPG doesn't stand for group.

markbonafeub17_ESO wrote: »

But if someone develops a game like the one I just described - I'll leave ESO in the dust.

They did, last century, they died out as new developments because not enough people came.

Right now the only recent game that to some extent fits your bill is FFXIV, there's plenty of forced-group-gating there to please you, it's bucking the trend to less forced-grouping but given the FF 'franchise' and the fact a large proportion of players are Japanese, whose society tends to shun the 'loner' and whose social system demands 'team' attitudes then XIV's success isn't really surprising.

starkerealm

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Have to agree. Ever since GW2 Ive realized that the 'everyone is self sufficient' model of MMOs is just not working for me. You get shallow gameplay mechanics due to few cross-character synergies and people playing next to each other rather than with each other. In fact Im waiting for someone to go the opposite way and try to introduce new roles into MMOs, expanding the trinity into... well, whatever you might call a game system with 4 or 5 distinct roles.

Those are called D&D.

Cherryblossom

My Toon is a *** Legendary Hero, why the hell would I need someone else's help! :disagree:
But as mentioned by others, most of the community like running around Solo until we need to run actual group content. This is then ruined by the poor grouping tool, which may be fixed in the next update!
Forcing people to group would destroy the game, what happens when your the only one in a zone at that particular quest, do you wait a couple of days for others to catch you up. You really did not think your idea through.