Concerns regarding the longterm prognosis for ESO

painsworth01

I applaud ESO for most of the changes they have implemented recently or plan to implement in the near future but the changes, though welcome, are limited in scope. All seem to deal with the techie highend of the pvp and raid pve game.

ESO needs to put equal attention to areas where the game is weaker than it should be. It is an excellent RPG but not such a good MMO. The social aspects of the game are awkward:
1) primitive guild structure that makes building a cohesive guild more difficult than necessary
2) lack of ingame speak that could be used to facilitate contact with other players, including strangers as well as friends rather than being forced to rely on Ventrillo or Teamspeak
3) inability to identify other players in the field other than for the tabard system which is probably not viable in its present incarnation -- too expensive, obscures gear, no way to identify which tabard goes with which guild, etc.
4) consider an auction house system to place more emphasis on guild cohesion by limiting tendency to hop from one trade guild to another looking for the best deals.
5) seek periodic input from people who play regularly but are not highend players -- probably the majority of the game's subscribers. These are the game's bread and butter players. Feedback from both the average players and the high end players can provide a balanced view of the game.

jeevin

You forgot grouping still doesn't work if you're not up to the same part of a quest. Phasing makes grouping more difficult than it needs to be. I know Zos are working on improvements but well that ship has sailed.

Gidorick

The fact that grouping STILL doesn't work properly 6 months in is just mind blowing.

jelliedsoup

2 things I've gone on about since day 1.

Stamina equality and in game voice chat. Sure there are some who don't want it so they can stick to their guild TS. It would improve in game friends, grouping for some.

Syntse

jelliedsoup wrote: »

2 things I've gone on about since day 1.

Stamina equality and in game voice chat. Sure there are some who don't want it so they can stick to their guild TS. It would improve in game friends, grouping for some.

Not so sure about voice chat. Only few people would actually use it. Battlefield 4 being good example. People asked and asked for in-game voice chat and when that came to BF4, just about nobody used it. Everyone was in their TS3, Mumble, Vent or Skype calls. Further more those companies have done that stuff for some time so their quality and reliability is most likely much better than anything in-game.

PolskiBunny_ESO

Grouping is definitely to me the biggest deal. It definitely contributed to my closest gamer friends just not buying the game after a bad beta session we were amped for.... I think fixing up grouping will do a lot of good for people that have close ties with friends.

Even if a game isn't your favorite, you'll tolerate it more if you can play with your rl friends, I think.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

I don't think it's a good idea to ask ZOS to implement voice chat on top of everything else. We already have server lag and unresponsiveness despite a lower in-game population than they should have prepared for. Adding voice chat to the mix would only make it worse, and it would only distract the developers to implement a feature which not many people are asking for, and which probably few would use.

TehMagnus

painsworth01 wrote: »

I applaud ESO for most of the changes they have implemented recently or plan to implement in the near future but the changes, though welcome, are limited in scope. All seem to deal with the techie highend of the pvp and raid pve game.

ESO needs to put equal attention to areas where the game is weaker than it should be. It is an excellent RPG but not such a good MMO. The social aspects of the game are awkward:
1) primitive guild structure that makes building a cohesive guild more difficult than necessary

MM no.

painsworth01 wrote: »

2) lack of ingame speak that could be used to facilitate contact with other players, including strangers as well as friends rather than being forced to rely on Ventrillo or Teamspeak

True.

painsworth01 wrote: »

3) inability to identify other players in the field other than for the tabard system which is probably not viable in its present incarnation -- too expensive, obscures gear, no way to identify which tabard goes with which guild, etc.

Expensive? xD still nameplates would be a nice addition.

painsworth01 wrote: »

4) consider an auction house system to place more emphasis on guild cohesion by limiting tendency to hop from one trade guild to another looking for the best deals.

NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEINNEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEINNEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEINNEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEINNEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEINNEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEINNEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEINNEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEINNEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN NEIN

NEIN!

painsworth01 wrote: »

5) seek periodic input from people who play regularly but are not highend players -- probably the majority of the game's subscribers. These are the game's bread and butter players. Feedback from both the average players and the high end players can provide a balanced view of the game.

They actually allready do but in game surveys would be awesome.

Gythral

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

I don't think it's a good idea to ask ZOS to implement voice chat on top of everything else. We already have server lag and unresponsiveness despite a lower in-game population than they should have prepared for. Adding voice chat to the mix would only make it worse, and it would only distract the developers to implement a feature which not many people are asking for, and which probably few would use.

Even more so when there are plenty of other ways to do this in existence at little or no cost.

dan958

Voice chat? Hell no.
I don't really want to be wandering through the wilderness and then suddenly hear some randomer who hasn't turned their mic off just randomly coughing.

If people want to use voice chat, the option is there in third party applications

TehMagnus

dan958 wrote: »

Voice chat? Hell no.
I don't really want to be wandering through the wilderness and then suddenly hear some randomer who hasn't turned their mic off just randomly coughing.

If people want to use voice chat, the option is there in third party applications

Why do people always assume the worse. If a game like this implemented voice chat they would ofc do it so it's only group wide and you can mute people.

This is like saying: "OMG walking? NO! Someone will walk over my face while I'm in the wilderness and sit on my head and I don't want that, if people want to walk, do it outside the game"

Morduil

I've played - and still play - quite a few MMOs and, as far as I can see, in all of the ones I know where there is an in-game voice chat players still tend to prefer the third-party ones like Vent, TS, etc.

Now I am not saying that is universally the case - I am sure there are examples of games where players do prefer the in-game option; I just don't know them myself but I know that means little - nor that all players prefer them. Nor am I saying that a superior one is uncreatable.

What I do wonder, however, is whether the lack of an in-game voice chat deters many players - some, I am sure, but perhaps not a problematic number.

That said, I do agree entirely with the OP that ZOS has a long way to go to improve the social aspects of the game. I also agree that those are greatly undermined by the lack of player recognisability, and also that the present guild system dilutes what in other games is one of the key means of social interaction.

Aenra

@painsworth01 welcome to the forums, mind not the LoL taggers, it's the trend here; glad to see others sharing similar concerns..made a similar post once, just count my LoLs and you'll get the idea..

keep your hopes low
while you may be making sense, your concerns touch upon principles, rather than merely functions/surface level. And in principles, why, they are infallible. Really. At best we will get health bars. Half a year post launch, the major excitement in regards to boosting social..is that the game someday, someday, will get to have name plates! (regarding our identifying others as you put it) Great huh!?

do you PvP btw? They sure pay attention to said part of the populace. You will fare a lot better by concentrating in said department..

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

painsworth01 wrote: »

I applaud ESO for most of the changes they have implemented recently or plan to implement in the near future but the changes, though welcome, are limited in scope. All seem to deal with the techie highend of the pvp and raid pve game.

ESO needs to put equal attention to areas where the game is weaker than it should be. It is an excellent RPG but not such a good MMO. The social aspects of the game are awkward:
1) primitive guild structure that makes building a cohesive guild more difficult than necessary
2) lack of ingame speak that could be used to facilitate contact with other players, including strangers as well as friends rather than being forced to rely on Ventrillo or Teamspeak
3) inability to identify other players in the field other than for the tabard system which is probably not viable in its present incarnation -- too expensive, obscures gear, no way to identify which tabard goes with which guild, etc.
4) consider an auction house system to place more emphasis on guild cohesion by limiting tendency to hop from one trade guild to another looking for the best deals.
5) seek periodic input from people who play regularly but are not highend players -- probably the majority of the game's subscribers. These are the game's bread and butter players. Feedback from both the average players and the high end players can provide a balanced view of the game.

1) Since guilds mostly are there as a poor substitute for a real economy then there's no real need for sophisticated features, few join guilds as social hubs like all other MMOs I play.

2) Name a game which has in-game speech. Only one I can think of is LOTRO and no-one uses it, why re-invent a perfectly good wheel well-honed by the like of Vent and TS? Turbine certainly showed how it shouldn't be done.

3) And why is identifying someone in the field of any importance at all, let alone the lack of it as a reason for you to fear for the future of the game?

4) No argument there, but forget it, Hell will freeze over before ZOS admit they were wrong.

5) Anyone can provide feedback, ZOS have made it clear how to do so.

Rylana

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

painsworth01 wrote: »

I applaud ESO for most of the changes they have implemented recently or plan to implement in the near future but the changes, though welcome, are limited in scope. All seem to deal with the techie highend of the pvp and raid pve game.

ESO needs to put equal attention to areas where the game is weaker than it should be. It is an excellent RPG but not such a good MMO. The social aspects of the game are awkward:
1) primitive guild structure that makes building a cohesive guild more difficult than necessary
2) lack of ingame speak that could be used to facilitate contact with other players, including strangers as well as friends rather than being forced to rely on Ventrillo or Teamspeak
3) inability to identify other players in the field other than for the tabard system which is probably not viable in its present incarnation -- too expensive, obscures gear, no way to identify which tabard goes with which guild, etc.
4) consider an auction house system to place more emphasis on guild cohesion by limiting tendency to hop from one trade guild to another looking for the best deals.
5) seek periodic input from people who play regularly but are not highend players -- probably the majority of the game's subscribers. These are the game's bread and butter players. Feedback from both the average players and the high end players can provide a balanced view of the game.

2) Name a game which has in-game speech. Only one I can think of is LOTRO and no-one uses it

Star Trek Online, and no one uses it for the following three reasons...

1. There are audio ads that play every couple of minutes
2. Your characters lips move when you talk, its just creepy as all hell, especially when guys play female chars
3. The volume is always pegged to the volume of sound effects, so it gets extremely noisy when just one person talks over a battle.

Aenra

sorry, but used it in Lotro just fine..and unless my memory escapes me, in EQ2 as well;

this is just one more example of -insert company name, ZOS included- forgoing something simply because hey, addons, or hey, external software. The rest is gravy on the apologist's pie.

in fact, customer convenince aside, the inclusion of an ingame VOIP sure helped getting to know people i otherwise wold not have. Not everyone can type as fast as the next one, not everyone is willing to type -and- do group content simultaneously, and most importantly, just nobody would bother stopping everything just so they could give you their vent details for a chit chat. Even if they wanted to, 99 out of 100 it is a guild vent anyway..

so again, i beg to differ

Morduil

Aenra wrote: »

sorry, but used it in Lotro just fine..and unless my memory escapes me, in EQ2 as well;

I found that in Lotro it was ok, but not great. People used it for casual grouping and levelling, but for raiding third party systems were generally preferred as they were clearer, sharper and faster.

Aenra

don't think anyone mentioned raiding..do you?

unless by focusing on a tiny aspect of the whole you wish to make a general statement in regards to the lack of enticing/promoting the social element

Morduil

I was just observing the system's limitations, without any hostility, and I would say that that was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Hardly any need to go on the attack or to start insinuating that I was derailing the thread.....

guybrushtb16_ESO

Aenra wrote: »

this is just one more example of -insert company name, ZOS included- forgoing something simply because hey, addons, or hey, external software. The rest is gravy on the apologist's pie.

Well, somehow implementing voice chat is easy, but creating the infrastructure and code to integrate an ingame voice chat that can stand up to the quality standards people are used from teamspeak and ventrilo is an absolutely tremendous effort for very little gain, and it is one endevaour that the vast majority of mmos have utterly failed at.

IMO, reaching the conclusion that it may not actually be worth it does not make you an apologist, it's simply reasonable given the facts.

tordr86b16_ESO

no, they should spend their resources on something more worthwhile.