Sorcerer needs help to L2P

astro74

I have serious issues with DK:s so what skills should i as a sorcerer have. With food I softcap my Mana and almost health. My spelldmg is 129 unbuffed and my weapon dmg is a bit over the softcap with surge.

Main staff is lightning and on that bar I have
Magelight
critical Surge
pulsar
crushing shock
crystal shards

Usually flawless dawnbreaker but now im trying with absorptionfield

On my resto bar i have
mages fury
teleport
regeneration
magelight
Mistform (ya im a vamp)

devouring swarm

So any skilled pvp sorcerer wants to give me some hints?

(Also does anyone have a good solo build? I really like 1v1 pvp instead of zerg but my build is not that solofriendly..

TehMagnus

I knew this was going to be about DKs before I even clicked.

Sallington

DO you have problems with them being hard to kill, or with you dieing too fast? DKs put out a lot of fire damage, so as a vamp you are very squishy.

astro74

magnusnet wrote: »

I knew this was going to be about DKs before I even clicked.

Well DKs are unbeatable for me and they tell me to L2P So I thought Id ask my fellow sorc for advice

Kvasir Silverpaw

You cant kill them...sorry. and if you could you would be nerfed , again. reroll to something else for pvp.

Valymer

Kvasir Silverpaw wrote: »

You cant kill them...sorry. and if you could you would be nerfed , again. reroll to something else for pvp.

QFT

When you see a DK, stay stealthed unless you have at least 2-3 allies backing you up. And even then it's a risk

kimboh

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132983/sorc-vs-reflective-scales-spamming-dk

stumpy999

lol

Just a quick look at my journal tells me:

Grand NB slayer
98 DK kills
59 Templar kills
51 Sorc kills

So basically Sorcerors are hardest to kill and Leet OP nerfbait.

However if I break this down, I'm a Templar, and my range damage is nil. So I am up close a lot. This means that a swarming DK is going to roll me, no issue with that.

So it may not be your build or skills that is an issue, maybe it's your playstyle?

I wouldn't expect to go toe to toe with a DK, so have you thought about keeping him at range and kiting etc?

Every class has strengths and weaknesses

TehMagnus

astro74 wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

I knew this was going to be about DKs before I even clicked.

Well DKs are unbeatable for me and they tell me to L2P So I thought Id ask my fellow sorc for advice

Yeah, the L2P part made me think of DKs 8). I suggest you check the link a couple of posts above .

pmn100b16_ESO

Isn't it Bolt escape, curse, bolt escape, curse, bolt escape, curse....?

Cathexis

Stop using vamp would be a good start......terribad.

Kvasir Silverpaw

Valymer wrote: »

Kvasir Silverpaw wrote: »

You cant kill them...sorry. and if you could you would be nerfed , again. reroll to something else for pvp.

QFT

When you see a DK, stay stealthed unless you have at least 2-3 allies backing you up. And even then it's a risk

stumpy999 wrote: »

lol

Just a quick look at my journal tells me:

Grand NB slayer
98 DK kills
59 Templar kills
51 Sorc kills

So basically Sorcerors are hardest to kill and Leet OP nerfbait.

However if I break this down, I'm a Templar, and my range damage is nil. So I am up close a lot. This means that a swarming DK is going to roll me, no issue with that.

So it may not be your build or skills that is an issue, maybe it's your playstyle?

I wouldn't expect to go toe to toe with a DK, so have you thought about keeping him at range and kiting etc?

Every class has strengths and weaknesses

OR....not as many Sorcs PVP. Most PVP with the strongest classes (ie: the ones that complained the most on the boards) WINNER: NB RUNNER UP: DK

Janduin

Encase
Wall of Elements
Velocious Curse
Mages Fury
Bolt Escape
(repeat)

Something like this IMHO. None of those can be reflected (except Mage's fury explosion but they are patching that) and will work to wear them down as long as you can keep range.

You need CC. I use encase (morphed) a lot to slow/lock them down while moving away (BE). They can break out of it, but I can cast it again.

Also Crystal Shards when it procs (if you can squeeze it in when they don't have reflective scales up)

DKs are tough but CC and mobility makes it doable.

Valymer

Janduin wrote: »

Encase
Wall of Elements
Velocious Curse
Mages Fury
Bolt Escape
(repeat)

Something like this IMHO. None of those can be reflected (except Mage's fury explosion but they are patching that) and will work to wear them down as long as you can keep range.

You need CC. I use encase (morphed) a lot to slow/lock them down while moving away (BE). They can break out of it, but I can cast it again.

Also Crystal Shards when it procs (if you can squeeze it in when they don't have reflective scales up)

DKs are tough but CC and mobility makes it doable.

Don't forget Soul Strike, it can't be reflected either (it's an ultimate though, I know).

The biggest problem is that Shield Charge/Invasion has a range of 22 meters while Restraining Prison/Encase has a range of only 15 meters. And once you get Invasion + Talons followed by Flame Lash and the DK runs behind you out of your line of sight, you can't cast on them and you are already taking massive damage before you can even do anything.

The only way I've found to survive it is to switch to resto staff and stack three shields and Rapid Regeneration, but this takes a ton of magicka and good timing. Not impossible though.

Velocious Curse does such a miniscule amount of damage, as does Mages Fury in the non-execute phase. I haven't picked up WoE yet but I've been wanting to try it. Also Fire Rune might be nice for kiting, anyone tried that?

Anyways, like I said the main problem you will run into when kiting is staying out of range of their gap-closer. Terrain will often screw you over on this as well.

kewl

Fighting DKs solo is a war of attrition. Stay alive and chip away until they have low resources, then strike.

Shield stacking and block are very effective at mitigating damage. The preferred stack is: Hardened Ward, Harness Magicka and Ward Ally.

Make sure you have adequate flame resist and health regen.

ThisOnePosts

Janduin wrote: »

Encase
Wall of Elements
Velocious Curse
Mages Fury
Bolt Escape
(repeat)

Something like this IMHO. None of those can be reflected (except Mage's fury explosion but they are patching that) and will work to wear them down as long as you can keep range.

You need CC. I use encase (morphed) a lot to slow/lock them down while moving away (BE). They can break out of it, but I can cast it again.

Also Crystal Shards when it procs (if you can squeeze it in when they don't have reflective scales up)

DKs are tough but CC and mobility makes it doable.

@astro74‌ I play all classes and as Janduin pointed out that is a good start of abilities.

Most importantly as a sorc fighting a DK.. you will be in trouble close-range ESPECIALLY because you are a vampire. You also need to work with abilities that can not be reflected but where you can still stay ranged. Honestly if you get this down pat, you will have much better chances at winning battles vs DKs.

Sorcs are very powerful, but it will depend on HOW you play. A Sorc's strong point is not close up!!!!! A sorc is most powerful when keeping it a ranged battle.

There are areas to which each class excels, master that for the class(es) that you play and you will start doing much better.

You don't have to follow the exact skills that Janduin listed, however it's the idea of keeping it a ranged battle and having some abilities on your bar that can not be reflected back just incase the DK you are fighting is reflecting.

See now from the DK point of view, what they'll be wanting to do is find some gap closers to prevent you from doing so.. so in the end it will be who can work their ability rotations into the battle better. Just know that from range and with abilities that can't be reflected, it's the DK who is going to have a hard fight on their hands while you glide around. If the DK gets up close, you are in trouble. It's not because you are a Sorc but rather a Vamp and fighting versus a fiery class that excels at close quarters combat where as your class is once again, excellent at ranged battle.

curlyqloub14_ESO

ViciousWayz wrote: »

You also need to work with abilities that can not be reflected but where you can still stay ranged.

I keep seeing this advice, and think it's perfectly good advice, but it's not particularly helpful b/c no one ever says WHAT KIND of abilities can't be reflected. How are we to know?

I'm an NB using Bow mostly (and some siphoning) for ranged fights, and it seems like pretty much everything is reflected. So, is there some general rule of thumb for knowing what they CAN'T reflect? I'd sure like to know.

Athas24

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

You also need to work with abilities that can not be reflected but where you can still stay ranged.

I keep seeing this advice, and think it's perfectly good advice, but it's not particularly helpful b/c no one ever says WHAT KIND of abilities can't be reflected. How are we to know?
So, is there some general rule of thumb for knowing what they CAN'T reflect? I'd sure like to know.

Would be nice to have a list of what cannot be reflected, otherwise it's trial and error. Wah waa.

Janduin

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

You also need to work with abilities that can not be reflected but where you can still stay ranged.

I keep seeing this advice, and think it's perfectly good advice, but it's not particularly helpful b/c no one ever says WHAT KIND of abilities can't be reflected. How are we to know?

I'm an NB using Bow mostly (and some siphoning) for ranged fights, and it seems like pretty much everything is reflected. So, is there some general rule of thumb for knowing what they CAN'T reflect? I'd sure like to know.

DK scales reflect 'projectiles' . Things like dot and aoe abilities are not. Some of the sorc abilities that can't be reflected are listed above. For a NB, I don't think siphons are reflected, and your ultimate a should work. The bow tree is all reflectable afaik. You will have to go to your class abilities or DW, or be clever about getting shots in when scales are down.

Aeratus

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

You also need to work with abilities that can not be reflected but where you can still stay ranged.

I keep seeing this advice, and think it's perfectly good advice, but it's not particularly helpful b/c no one ever says WHAT KIND of abilities can't be reflected. How are we to know?

I'm an NB using Bow mostly (and some siphoning) for ranged fights, and it seems like pretty much everything is reflected. So, is there some general rule of thumb for knowing what they CAN'T reflect? I'd sure like to know.

For NB, strife (funnel health, swallow soul) is reflected. You don't want it to be reflected, because if it gets reflected at you, it not only damages you but also heals the DK.

Everything else in the siphon tree is not reflectable. This includes crippling grasp and the drain power AOE attack.

Impale is also not reflected, because it is considered to be a melee attack even though it is a ranged attack.

DK scales reflect 'projectiles'

But what is a projectile isn't clear.

For example, the explosion on the mages wrath is reflectable (although 1.5 patch will change this), even though the base hit is not reflectable.

Also, crushing shock appears as a stream of energy (just like soul assault), but it is reflectable.

astro74

Thx for all good input and advice. I was going to try this last night but gf wanted to do adult stuff... will try it tonight though

Sublime

Another thing that took me some time to notice, is that force shock gets reflected, it's kind of surprising since it's not an actual projectile but rather a beam (in my eyes).

Apart from that, here are the skills which are most important against dk's in my eyes:

Streak: allows you to get away while rooted and stuns the dk without the expense of Stamina

Velocious Curse: can't be reflected, and has the chance to proc the shard

Healing Ward (the morph that heals after the shield expires): gives you insane comeback potential, because the shield scales up to 300% and heals you for the full shield at the end

Hardened Ward: gives you some additional "base health" which makes it easier to sustain the flame dmg.

If you still feel to squishy, try something like Boundless Storm or Immovable, should however not be needed since Encase (Restraining Prison) should give you enough kite potential.

astro74

What about the amulet.. neclace of the sun? with huge flame resist.. will it do something if my general spell resist is already capped (Im a vamp). Is it worth trading -20 spell cost for fire resist?

Tuttebel

I can beat most one trick pony DK's on a regular basis as a shield stacking sorceror.
Heavy resto attacks, velocious curse and mage's wrath to execute at 20%.
Stacking Hardened ward and Healing Ward for survivability.
When the DK closes in, streak through him and get some distance.

It's generally a war of attrition.

The smart DK's ... that's something else

Pro-tip : DO NOT STAND STILL EVER as a caster ...

GreyBrow

Been playing sorc since launch.

Sorry bro, but all the l2p nb/dk crybabies NERFED us into the dirt. Our only viable option was to leave the fight a tie and (with luck) bolt escape away. Sadly you can't do that now, and in pve we are now the worst dps class.

My suggestion:

5 piece warlock 5 piece whatever... Reduced block jewelry. Resto staff.

Bar 1
Endless fury/crystal frag/curse/daedric mines/encase... Maybe trade crystal for steak.

Bar 2
Harness magicka/hardened ward/healing ward/rune prison/volcanic rune

Cast daedric mines and volcanic on the ground, stand in that and don't move unless he gets ballsy and invades you. If he does, roll out, find a new spot and stand your ground on your mines. Keep your bubbles up 100% of the time, use healing ward as necessary. Use resto heavy attacks, keep curse/entropy up 100% of the time. When he gets in range, use encase followed by rune prison. He will burn all his stamina breaking the cc. Once he does this, another rune prison and encase will hold him for 20 seconds while you walk up, cast mines around him, followed by volcanic rune and curse, and then drop an atro on his face. Streak through him, turn and pop a spell crit pot and use crystal fragments and then spam endless fury until he dies. If he doesn't, start over.

Milf_Hero

Deltias Gaming.com or look deltia up on youtube. You can find videos from how to create a build to how to make a good dps sorc.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Equip 1h/shield. Get the reflect skill (morph with stun). Procc your insta crystal shard or cast it when at range. Fire it at the DK. If he has his reflect up, instantly cast your own spellreflect. You're now playing ping-pong, except that a skill can only be reflected twice. So the DK gets inevitable hit by your crystal shard that got buffed with 35% extra damage by his scales. Most also don't block, because they don't know this. Sounds good, doesn't it?

Sublime

@GreyBrow‌ Why do you use Harness Magicka? As far as I know most of the damage from DK is flame and Harness only works against magic damage.

Did I miss something or why do you use it in this matchup?

Tuttebel

Sublime wrote: »

@GreyBrow‌ Why do you use Harness Magicka? As far as I know most of the damage from DK is flame and Harness only works against magic damage.

Did I miss something or why do you use it in this matchup?

Harness Magicka was the shield of choice before last patch because the 50% damage reduction carried over to the 2nd shield ... which was nice.
After the change Harness Magicka is not worth slotting anymore.


Stay moist,

Thechemicals

I believe impulse pulsar is what you want, it is unblockable damage. Drops dots like crazy on the dk because most dont have purge and those that do, have the 800 cost one. Only a tiny amount of Dk's have the ability to cast a low cost purge. That is how you do it. Also explode your pets on them and use soulstrike...they cant reflect that. Encase to challenge their talons and Daedric mines or volcanic rune to make them pay for charging you.

Good sorcs put this all together and make it happen in 2-3 seconds.

Tuttebel

Thechemicals wrote: »

I believe impulse pulsar is what you want, it is unblockable damage. Drops dots like crazy on the dk because most dont have purge and those that do, have the 800 cost one. Only a tiny amount of Dk's have the ability to cast a low cost purge. That is how you do it. Also explode your pets on them and use soulstrike...they cant reflect that. Encase to challenge their talons and Daedric mines or volcanic rune to make them pay for charging you.

Good sorcs put this all together and make it happen in 2-3 seconds.

Impulse/pulsar is a low cost/low damage aoe spell. It's only good because it hits several targets. Why anyone would use it in a 1 vs 1 against a DK is beyond me.

Sorcerors don't have dots. We have velocious curse and that's only 1 per target. So no dotting like crazy.

Explode our pets at them? Really? Why give up 10% of your magicka on each cast for a pitiful result that isn't even reliable? He'll laugh at that unstable familiar, I promise you that. Then he'll flamewhip you to death.

Soulstrike is perfectly tankable ... I'm a sorceror and I can tell you that your soulstrike will hardly dent me.
Meanwhile you're standing still while mobility is key in pvp. While you're channeling you'll get flamewhipped to death.

The only thing encase does is decrease the DK's stamina pool. He'll break free, dragon leap to you and flamewhip you to death because he finds it annoying.

About the only good advice here was the use of runes, but only if you have the insta cast version. Most people don't run to you like a mob, ignoring traps/runes on the ground you know. He'll flamewhip you to death for annoying him.

Good sorcerors do this in 2-3 seconds. Wonder how if the duration of soulstrike alone is 2.85 secs.

I've never been more glad I'm not a good sorc ...

Stay moist,