A straight forward question for Zenimax

GrimMauKin

Do you have any intention to address the crippling stealth and Shadow Cloak bugs affecting Nightblades at present?

And if so, why the deafening silence and failure to update and engage with subscribers? Surely and update or two wouldn't too much to ask.

MornaBaine

I will be surprised (delighted, but very surprised) if you get any sort of official answer to this. ZoS, of late, seems to be dodging or ignoring an awful lot of pointed questions such as yours. Good luck.

bosmern_ESO

Because If ZoS is working on it and give a date of when it should be out, but it gets pushed back to a further time because various things could happen, they will get their ears chewed off by all the people complaining.

GrimMauKin

Because If ZoS is working on it and give a date of when it should be out, but it gets pushed back to a further time because various things could happen, they will get their ears chewed off by all the people complaining.

Just some acknowledgement that they are working on it would be nice. To be honest I don't think that it's wrong to complain that something we're paying for isn't working or to want some reassurance that it's going to be fixed.

Zeni. seem happy to keep taking the subs. but appear to have no interest in engaging with their subscribers.

Nihil

from the guild summit takent off of tamerial foundry

"Shadow Cloak – QA has been hard at work to identify the affects of using every single ability in the game with/against a character who is cloaked, so they are aware of all the issues and will be working on resolving them for future updates."

or is this another thread about restealthing after using shadow cloak?

GrimMauKin

Is Tamriel Foundry an official channel? I'd assumed that Zenimax would update us here.

The thread is about the fact that Shadow Cloak and it's morphs don't work as described (sometimes they don't work at all) and, at best, are highly erratic. It's a fairly central skill to by character build but it's coming to the point where I just hit the skill key and hope.

Razzak

Try using reddit or Tamriel Foundry sites. There is more info on the game itself on those two sites, than here.
This forum is obviously only meant as playground for forum mods and ZOS's PR.
Or you could try getting yourself into "forum20" group.

Nihil

GrimMauKin wrote: »

Is Tamriel Foundry an official channel? I'd assumed that Zenimax would update us here.

The thread is about the fact that Shadow Cloak and it's morphs don't work as described (sometimes they don't work at all) and, at best, are highly erratic. It's a fairly central skill to by character build but it's coming to the point where I just hit the skill key and hope.

This is from the guild summit, so it makes sense that the notes were posted on the guild sites (I would of also liked an over view of it on their website but not a big deal). I figured I would ask because I have seen some strait up ridiculous expectations of this skill (instantly being able to re enter stealth).

I am just showing that they have officially made a comment on it, although the means that they have commented on it might not be how everyone wants them to acknowledge it.

GrimMauKin

I'll have a look at that, thanks.

I'm not pushing for any changes in the skill itself, I just want it to work the way it's intended to, which currently it certainly isn't.

Nihil

the only other thing I found in the guild summit written notes for shadow cloak is about stealth detection potions
" (Q) Stealth detection potions and their current effectiveness versus abilities like Shadow Cloak."

(A)They will investigate the effectiveness of these potions to make sure they are in-line with the effectiveness of stealth granting abilities.

I will have to listen to the audio at some point, just haven't had the time to sit down and listen to it. I do hope they fix the bugs that are associated with shadow cloak.

GrimMauKin

Shadow Cloak – QA has been hard at work to identify the affects of using every single ability in the game with/against a character who is cloaked, so they are aware of all the issues and will be working on resolving them for future updates.

It's one there in the Abilities and Morphs section of Gameplay and Itemization section. It sounds like something's on the radar but it doesn't fill me with optimism that it'll be sorted anytime soon (or that they won't break something else whilst fixing it).

I still think that it'd be nice to be kept informed and engaged with here though.

Heishi

Personally, I've had a lot more issue with stealth than invisible/shadow cloak's invisible. Just to preclarify, stealth is the crouched walking whereas invisible comes from the potion or shadow cloak. Main difference, you do more damage from stealth than invisible and also move slower in stealth than invisible.

I've a number of times where I'll be "fake" detected from stealth, where the enemy will draw weapon/turn/get red notice indicator overhead then go back to an unaware.

I also get a lot of the draw, wait, slash which due to the wait end up in about a 50/50 shot of getting caught, which also causes the attack from stealth to not do stealth damage.

With invisible from shadow cloak I've ran into things such as the enemy turning and watching me/continuing to aim at me, getting hit with long draw abilities like uppercut (due to the enemy still turning to face me while charging the skill), and other such things.

There's a few other bits and pieces, but those are the biggest failings I've ran into consistently.

Gedalya

GrimMauKin wrote: »

Do you have any intention to address the crippling stealth and Shadow Cloak bugs affecting Nightblades at present?

And if so, why the deafening silence and failure to update and engage with subscribers? Surely and update or two wouldn't too much to ask.

Sorry but your use of "crippling" and "deafening" both merit explanation; and as such this is not a straight forward question. Try again, or give more info for those of us like myself who don't play Nightblade.

Heishi

GrimMauKin wrote: »

Do you have any intention to address the crippling stealth and Shadow Cloak bugs affecting Nightblades at present?

And if so, why the deafening silence and failure to update and engage with subscribers? Surely and update or two wouldn't too much to ask.

To this question specifically, you do realize they have been addressing this almost every main patch update and a few minor since about the 1.2 patch right?

There's really no deafening silence or failure to update or failure to engage subscribers or whatever other melodramatic term we want to throw at it. Stealth and Shadow Cloak issue have been highly visible.

Just searching the word stealth produces 100 pages.

Just some from the patch notes:

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113161/patch-notes-v1-2-3

Shadow Cloak: This ability can now be cast when you have less than 35% of your magicka. Additionally, using this ability while a monster is taunted will now cause it to attack a different target.

Using Shadow Cloak during the quest Dream Walk Into Darkness will no longer result in the Nightblade drawing aggro.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/124010/patch-notes-v1-3-3#latest

The Spirit Master’s Summon Shade no longer attacks invisible player characters using Shadow Cloak.

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131752/patch-notes-v1-4-3#latest

You will no longer be taken out of stealth when you weapon swap with an item set equipped.

Shadow Cloak: This ability is no longer removed by the following ticking damage abilities.
Agony
Bat Swarm
Caltrops
Cripple
Entropy
Fire Rune
Necrotic Orb
Path of Darkness
Soul Tether
Trap Beast
Volley
Wall of Elements
All elemental procs

So... remember, /bug and /feedback are your friend also search is a pretty good tool.

Edit:
To make it easier, here's a link to a search with all the patches having stealth in them (only two pages instead of 100 searching all).

Stealth Search in Patches

Specifically the latest hotfix on 9/23:
9/23 Stealth hotfix

bunnytrix

Crippling...as in normal crouching stealth has been broken since 1.4 went live....making stealthy gameplay much harder... you are spotted at much greater distances than previously, which makes it much more difficult to sneak in range of something to use , for example, Concealed Weapon.
Previously, you could sneak up on things and the eye would not open at all, you always knew you were hidden. Since 1.4 broke it..the eye begins to open much farther away, making it much more difficult to get your sneak attack in..or to sneak past enemies you do not want to engage. And this is with all of the stealth passive abilities maxed out. They always spot you farther away than they used to. This is absolutely "crippling" for those people who like to play a stealth melee Nightblade.
And this does not just affect NBs by the way, it is broken for everyone using crouching stealth.

Crippling also in that Shadow Cloak, the Nightblades' invisibility, re-stealthing mechanic, has been broken since beta, and hardly ever works....mobs see through it, abilities break it..etc etc ( though it does actually work the odd time). And with the supposed "fixes" to Shadow Cloak, well..at the moment it is as bad as it has ever been. I have not seen fixes for it. It is actually worse than it was a while back.

GrimMauKin

To this question specifically, you do realize they have been addressing this almost every main patch update and a few minor since about the 1.2 patch right?

Just searching the word stealth produces 100 pages.

Which kind of says it all really; it should never have been an issue and nothing should ever have needed to be said or done! It wasn't right from the off and has gotten progressively worse as things have gone on. It wasn't fixed in 1.2 and Update 4 seems to have really screwed it up.

I really wouldn't take the patch notes as gospel either; Zenimax may think that they've addressed something but history tends to suggest that they haven't and have probably broken something else trying.

There's enough on the forums (100 pages apparently) to show that both stealth and Shadow Cloak are seriously broken and whereas in the past Zenimax would discuss issues online, they seem to have stopped doing even this. I do genuinely wonder whether Zenimax have any idea as to how to begin to resolve the issues.

eventide03b14a_ESO

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Because If ZoS is working on it and give a date of when it should be out, but it gets pushed back to a further time because various things could happen, they will get their ears chewed off by all the people complaining.

We get mad when we are ignored. They don't have to give an "official" date. An acknowledgement that, "hey we know this is a problem and we are working on fixing it", would be nice.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Nihil wrote: »

from the guild summit takent off of tamerial foundry

"Shadow Cloak – QA has been hard at work to identify the affects of using every single ability in the game with/against a character who is cloaked, so they are aware of all the issues and will be working on resolving them for future updates."

or is this another thread about restealthing after using shadow cloak?

Honestly why should we need to search all over the web to find this information. Why is this not easily available on their own site? I should be able to go to ESO forums by ZOS to find out official answers to things not a third party site.

Heishi

GrimMauKin wrote: »

To this question specifically, you do realize they have been addressing this almost every main patch update and a few minor since about the 1.2 patch right?

Just searching the word stealth produces 100 pages.

Which kind of says it all really; it should never have been an issue and nothing should ever have needed to be said or done! It wasn't right from the off and has gotten progressively worse as things have gone on. It wasn't fixed in 1.2 and Update 4 seems to have really screwed it up.

I really wouldn't take the patch notes as gospel either; Zenimax may think that they've addressed something but history tends to suggest that they haven't and have probably broken something else trying.

There's enough on the forums (100 pages apparently) to show that both stealth and Shadow Cloak are seriously broken and whereas in the past Zenimax would discuss issues online, they seem to have stopped doing even this. I do genuinely wonder whether Zenimax have any idea as to how to begin to resolve the issues.

True enough.

I wasn't trying to attest they fixed these, just noting their awareness. As I noted in the post before the patch post, I still run into a number of the issues myself.

Funny thing, in addition to what @bunnytrix‌ said, I've actually ran by more enemies unstealthed than stealthed without being engaged in combat(at roughly the same distances).

bunnytrix

Heishi wrote: »

GrimMauKin wrote: »

To this question specifically, you do realize they have been addressing this almost every main patch update and a few minor since about the 1.2 patch right?

Just searching the word stealth produces 100 pages.

Which kind of says it all really; it should never have been an issue and nothing should ever have needed to be said or done! It wasn't right from the off and has gotten progressively worse as things have gone on. It wasn't fixed in 1.2 and Update 4 seems to have really screwed it up.

I really wouldn't take the patch notes as gospel either; Zenimax may think that they've addressed something but history tends to suggest that they haven't and have probably broken something else trying.

There's enough on the forums (100 pages apparently) to show that both stealth and Shadow Cloak are seriously broken and whereas in the past Zenimax would discuss issues online, they seem to have stopped doing even this. I do genuinely wonder whether Zenimax have any idea as to how to begin to resolve the issues.

True enough.

I wasn't trying to attest they fixed these, just noting their awareness. As I noted in the post before the patch post, I still run into a number of the issues myself.

Funny thing, in addition to what @bunnytrix‌ said, I've actually ran by more enemies unstealthed than stealthed without being engaged in combat(at roughly the same distances).

This is sadly true. You can often be unstealthed and spotted at the same distance that you are spotted while stealthed with all of your passives.

GrimMauKin

I wasn't trying to attest they fixed these, just noting their awareness. As I noted in the post before the patch post, I still run into a number of the issues myself.

I don't doubt that Zenimax are aware of the issues, my concern now is that they just don't know how to begin to fix them and are just keeping their heads down.

Nihil

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

from the guild summit takent off of tamerial foundry

"Shadow Cloak – QA has been hard at work to identify the affects of using every single ability in the game with/against a character who is cloaked, so they are aware of all the issues and will be working on resolving them for future updates."

or is this another thread about restealthing after using shadow cloak?

Honestly why should we need to search all over the web to find this information. Why is this not easily available on their own site? I should be able to go to ESO forums by ZOS to find out official answers to things not a third party site.

They said they are planning on writting a follow up (GM posted on the forums on the 9th saying they should have it this week I believe). We all knew that the guild summit was happening and GM's linked the website that I used ( How I originally found the notes on it) that was being updated as the guild summit was proceeding. Businesses can't be as fast at releasing notes as individuals can, as they probably have protocols have to get it approved by management and all that good stuff.

Hopefully we will have a detailed report on the guild summit from ZOS soon, maybe with the audio posted on their home page as well.

Razzak

Nihil wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

from the guild summit takent off of tamerial foundry

"Shadow Cloak – QA has been hard at work to identify the affects of using every single ability in the game with/against a character who is cloaked, so they are aware of all the issues and will be working on resolving them for future updates."

or is this another thread about restealthing after using shadow cloak?

Honestly why should we need to search all over the web to find this information. Why is this not easily available on their own site? I should be able to go to ESO forums by ZOS to find out official answers to things not a third party site.

They said they are planning on writting a follow up (GM posted on the forums on the 9th saying they should have it this week I believe). We all knew that the guild summit was happening and GM's linked the website that I used ( How I originally found the notes on it) that was being updated as the guild summit was proceeding. Businesses can't be as fast at releasing notes as individuals can, as they probably have protocols have to get it approved by management and all that good stuff.

Hopefully we will have a detailed report on the guild summit from ZOS soon, maybe with the audio posted on their home page as well.

So, a difference between an amateur and professional is that amateur does things faster?

Nihil

Razzak wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

from the guild summit takent off of tamerial foundry

"Shadow Cloak – QA has been hard at work to identify the affects of using every single ability in the game with/against a character who is cloaked, so they are aware of all the issues and will be working on resolving them for future updates."

or is this another thread about restealthing after using shadow cloak?

Honestly why should we need to search all over the web to find this information. Why is this not easily available on their own site? I should be able to go to ESO forums by ZOS to find out official answers to things not a third party site.

They said they are planning on writting a follow up (GM posted on the forums on the 9th saying they should have it this week I believe). We all knew that the guild summit was happening and GM's linked the website that I used ( How I originally found the notes on it) that was being updated as the guild summit was proceeding. Businesses can't be as fast at releasing notes as individuals can, as they probably have protocols have to get it approved by management and all that good stuff.

Hopefully we will have a detailed report on the guild summit from ZOS soon, maybe with the audio posted on their home page as well.

So, a difference between an amateur and professional is that amateur does things faster?

How did you even get that O_o the difference between an individual and a business representative would be protocol. I don't know Zenimax's protocol but I have a feeling before they post a full report to the players it would of had to of gone through a couple of loops. Possible even examined by each of the individuals who spoke at the Guild summit. While the individuals who attended were literally allowed to post as it was happening as they didn't have a protocol in place to slow down the process.

Leijona

And it has to be translated into German and French before they can release it. TF didn't had to care about translations or anything else.

Razzak

Nihil wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

from the guild summit takent off of tamerial foundry

"Shadow Cloak – QA has been hard at work to identify the affects of using every single ability in the game with/against a character who is cloaked, so they are aware of all the issues and will be working on resolving them for future updates."

or is this another thread about restealthing after using shadow cloak?

Honestly why should we need to search all over the web to find this information. Why is this not easily available on their own site? I should be able to go to ESO forums by ZOS to find out official answers to things not a third party site.

They said they are planning on writting a follow up (GM posted on the forums on the 9th saying they should have it this week I believe). We all knew that the guild summit was happening and GM's linked the website that I used ( How I originally found the notes on it) that was being updated as the guild summit was proceeding. Businesses can't be as fast at releasing notes as individuals can, as they probably have protocols have to get it approved by management and all that good stuff.

Hopefully we will have a detailed report on the guild summit from ZOS soon, maybe with the audio posted on their home page as well.

So, a difference between an amateur and professional is that amateur does things faster?

How did you even get that O_o the difference between an individual and a business representative would be protocol. I don't know Zenimax's protocol but I have a feeling before they post a full report to the players it would of had to of gone through a couple of loops. Possible even examined by each of the individuals who spoke at the Guild summit. While the individuals who attended were literally allowed to post as it was happening as they didn't have a protocol in place to slow down the process.

They allowed TF to post it, which means they simply delegated the job to someone else. Do you really think their own official version will differ much from what we already can see or hear? So, what reason could they have for more "fidling"? Remember, at that stage the most important thing is to publicize information as soon as possible. I mean, it's what we've gotten with TF's post anyway.

Leijona wrote: »

And it has to be translated into German and French before they can release it. TF didn't had to care about translations or anything else.

True. There are others to think about, but I don't think those others would mind if first draft was made in English only, if it's explained it is done so we would get info as fast as possible and translations are coming. I would need response from German and French players to that.

bunnytrix

Personally I have no faith in anything from the guild summit.
It was a marketing tool is all. So they can be perceived as "listening" to their players. Where was my invite ? Why couldn't I ask some questions ?

"Yes we are doing this, yes we are doing that blah blah..we'll release that sometime in the future....we'll get to that in some future patch"....

Meanwhile I've yet to see any response to real concerns about broken game mechanics (like stealth) posed by normal paying players like the people posting in this forum. Like fixes to game breaking things that should be quickly hot fixed by devs..who should be fixing the game and not sitting round a table patting each other on the back with a bunch of "chosen" guilds.

Nihil

Razzak wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

from the guild summit takent off of tamerial foundry

"Shadow Cloak – QA has been hard at work to identify the affects of using every single ability in the game with/against a character who is cloaked, so they are aware of all the issues and will be working on resolving them for future updates."

or is this another thread about restealthing after using shadow cloak?

Honestly why should we need to search all over the web to find this information. Why is this not easily available on their own site? I should be able to go to ESO forums by ZOS to find out official answers to things not a third party site.

They said they are planning on writting a follow up (GM posted on the forums on the 9th saying they should have it this week I believe). We all knew that the guild summit was happening and GM's linked the website that I used ( How I originally found the notes on it) that was being updated as the guild summit was proceeding. Businesses can't be as fast at releasing notes as individuals can, as they probably have protocols have to get it approved by management and all that good stuff.

Hopefully we will have a detailed report on the guild summit from ZOS soon, maybe with the audio posted on their home page as well.

So, a difference between an amateur and professional is that amateur does things faster?

How did you even get that O_o the difference between an individual and a business representative would be protocol. I don't know Zenimax's protocol but I have a feeling before they post a full report to the players it would of had to of gone through a couple of loops. Possible even examined by each of the individuals who spoke at the Guild summit. While the individuals who attended were literally allowed to post as it was happening as they didn't have a protocol in place to slow down the process.

They allowed TF to post it, which means they simply delegated the job to someone else. Do you really think their own official version will differ much from what we already can see or hear? So, what reason could they have for more "fidling"? Remember, at that stage the most important thing is to publicize information as soon as possible. I mean, it's what we've gotten with TF's post anyway.

Leijona wrote: »

And it has to be translated into German and French before they can release it. TF didn't had to care about translations or anything else.

True. There are others to think about, but I don't think those others would mind if first draft was made in English only, if it's explained it is done so we would get info as fast as possible and translations are coming. I would need response from German and French players to that.

I don't think it will differ much, but that doesn't mean that they can just put it up (audio if they recorded could as that shouldn't be edited). Zenimax is still a business, they will have their protocols they have to follow even if they would like to stray from it. Seeing as everyone takes even the smallest thing as this has to be so (the typing of monthly with the roads ahead article under the picture, never have I read that it would be every month), I would take my time typing it too, making sure things were phrased right. They will probably still mess up some where in the typing, but the less mistakes, the less they need to clear up, and the less confusion that will happen.