Why can't we duel in this game?

Valymer

That is, with members of our own faction.

People talk a lot about "breaking the lore" (whatever that really means), but I don't see how being forced to join a cross-faction guild to actually get some PVP going that is based on player skill rather than laggy zerging is good for the lore.

Cyrodiil is a war zone, right? How many war zones have you ever heard of where small groups of people from opposing sides joined up between major sieges to fight it out for fun? No, they got better by sparring people from their own side, not the enemy.

I have been playing MMOs for almost twenty years now and I have never played one without the ability to duel other players. I mean even MUDs I've played offered this option.

One of the most thrilling things about vanilla WoW was the feeling of fear when questing on a PVP server. No one liked to be ganked but that palpable tension in the air when roaming around the world added something to the game that I miss in ESO. Hell, even non-PVP servers on Everquest allowed players to duel, and they also had Arenas where once you entered them you became PVP-flagged automatically, which allowed for free-for-alls.

If we have no chance for world PVP in this game, and Cyrodiil is in the buggy, zergy state that it is, why can't you just code in an option to let players duel each other outside of Cyrodiil?

Or even an arena system like WoW had would probably be a hugely welcome change for many PVPers. It wouldn't even need the annoying gear grind like the one in that game, just somewhere that small groups of friends could team up against other groups for some lag-free, skill-based PVP. The reward of being able to do this would be good enough, maybe even throw in a leaderboard so the top players can get their e-peen going a little.

Although no one outside of Zenimax has access to the code for this game, many people have speculated that the technical issues of Cyrodiil stem from the game's inability to cope with massive numbers of people fighting in the same area at one time. Why not then make some smaller, instanced PVP zones with typical objectives (capture the flag, king of the hill, etc.) a la Warsong Gulch? You have a great chance to do this with the Imperial City, but that doesn't sound like the direction it is going in.

I mean, if sheer numbers of players are what is causing the problems in Cyrodiil, then it seems to me like the most obvious way to fix them would be to reduce the number of players fighting at the same time. As much as I hated many things about Battlegrounds on WoW, the smaller ones ended up being a lot of fun sometimes because combat was closer and fewer people meant better strategy in a lot of situations. Cyrodiil feels exactly the same every time: zone in, join a group, suicide to an FC, then beat your head against a zerg for a few hours while farming AP and maybe flipping a few keeps, only to log off then come back the next day to see all the stuff you captured flipped back to a different faction. I understand that's the idea of it--a perpetual warzone--but it just makes me not care at all about the keeps or resources after a while, because ultimately it is an unwinnable scenario. Smaller instances with objectives that could be actually accomplished would go a long way toward fixing that feeling.

TL;DR: Add the ability to duel other players, arenas for small-group combat, and some smaller instanced three-faction PVP with concrete objectives and people might stop complaining so much about the problems in Cyrodiil. Cyrodiil is a problem because it is the only solution.

Rylana

Considering the first elder scrolls game was called arena, and arenas are essentially glorified duels, i dont see this lore issue whatsoever.

Valymer

Rylana wrote: »

Considering the first elder scrolls game was called arena, and arenas are essentially glorified duels, i dont see this lore issue whatsoever.

The point I was trying to make there is that cross-faction guilds that have dueling contests and stuff within Cyrodiil are no more "lore-breaking" than playing through the other factions' quest lines at veteran ranks. Yet this lore-breaking excuse is often thrown out there when various ideas get suggested.

An actual arena system would make complete sense from a lore point of view, because historically champions from other factions often battled each other in places like these. Just not on the battlefield in between skirmishes.

MiyaTheUnbroken

I would love to duel my alliance members. We need a /duel function, just copy EQ's, it was pretty nice.

JaJaLuka

Agreed OP. I would love to see a duelling system in place. The problem is that Cyrodiil is simply too inaccessible to some people, too much running, too much zerging, not enough actual fighting, too many ego's trying to dictate play. It's simply not a fun experience for all. They have missed a HUGE market. Many of my friends un-subbed simply due to this matter, I can only imagine how many others have done the same.

Kypho

1. any class vs Oplar, Oplar wins maybe DK has chance
2. any armor vs lightarmor, lightarmor noobism wins
3. normal gameplay vs anim canceling, anim canceling wins.

etc.

ESO is the worst balanced game ever made, and allowing all kind of BS what is the weakness of the combat mechanism. ZoS failed to reproduce the fun combat system of ES games. They have weakness ofc, but they are single player game.
So. Better no duel than duel in such a faulty crap combat system, what lacks in class and armor ballance, spammerama, fastattack ani.can.att.all.th.time.

lightattack canceled following with a skill what is canceled.... Its like : Lighcancfollwiskwhcanc. makes same sense... st...d ZoS

Asgari

regardless of lore i should be able to challenge a friend to a fight to see who has the better build. Its no difference than what the fighters guild does in every town. Its training.

Kosar

i've also played mmos for 2 decades and can say honestly that almost none had duels. and the ones that did lead almost immediately to the angsty, angry, loudmouthed trolly ones who couldn't get along with their own faction to be CONSTANTLY trying to duel everyone instead of ever doing any real fighting.

if you want a fight, find an enemy... stop trying to beat up your friends. it leads to all kinds of terrible competition on sides that are supposed to be working together. if you need a duel to fix your build... that means you need maybe a total of 3 duels? i gaurantee you can find 3 different fights in cyrodiil.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Kypho wrote: »

1. any class vs Oplar, Oplar wins maybe DK has chance
2. any armor vs lightarmor, lightarmor noobism wins
3. normal gameplay vs anim canceling, anim canceling wins.

etc.

ESO is the worst balanced game ever made, and allowing all kind of BS what is the weakness of the combat mechanism. ZoS failed to reproduce the fun combat system of ES games. They have weakness ofc, but they are single player game.
So. Better no duel than duel in such a faulty crap combat system, what lacks in class and armor ballance, spammerama, fastattack ani.can.att.all.th.time.

lightattack canceled following with a skill what is canceled.... Its like : Lighcancfollwiskwhcanc. makes same sense... st...d ZoS

So even after you edited your post you decided to ignore the terrible spelling errors? No offense man but it's hard to take your post seriously with such terrible grammar that I have to try and figure out what you're trying to say. WTF is an Oplar?

Valymer

effinshiddy wrote: »

i've also played mmos for 2 decades and can say honestly that almost none had duels. and the ones that did lead almost immediately to the angsty, angry, loudmouthed trolly ones who couldn't get along with their own faction to be CONSTANTLY trying to duel everyone instead of ever doing any real fighting.

if you want a fight, find an enemy... stop trying to beat up your friends. it leads to all kinds of terrible competition on sides that are supposed to be working together. if you need a duel to fix your build... that means you need maybe a total of 3 duels? i gaurantee you can find 3 different fights in cyrodiil.

Really, which MMOs were those?

Some of the MMOs that had dueling:

Ultima Online
Everquest 1
Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
City of Heroes
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
Lineage
Plenty of no-name graphical and text MMOs

eventide03b14a_ESO

effinshiddy wrote: »

i've also played mmos for 2 decades and can say honestly that almost none had duels. and the ones that did lead almost immediately to the angsty, angry, loudmouthed trolly ones who couldn't get along with their own faction to be CONSTANTLY trying to duel everyone instead of ever doing any real fighting.

if you want a fight, find an enemy... stop trying to beat up your friends. it leads to all kinds of terrible competition on sides that are supposed to be working together. if you need a duel to fix your build... that means you need maybe a total of 3 duels? i gaurantee you can find 3 different fights in cyrodiil.

Every mainstream MMO I have ever played that incorporated dueling made it 100% optional and included a way to ignore duel requests. Sorry but your argument is weak.

Also, which MMO's didn't have dueling? EQ, EQ2, SWG, WoW....Those are some of the main one's I have played over the last 15 years that all had friendly dueling.

Ghostbane

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

WTF is an Oplar?

I thought it was OP Templar ?

eventide03b14a_ESO

Valymer wrote: »

effinshiddy wrote: »

i've also played mmos for 2 decades and can say honestly that almost none had duels. and the ones that did lead almost immediately to the angsty, angry, loudmouthed trolly ones who couldn't get along with their own faction to be CONSTANTLY trying to duel everyone instead of ever doing any real fighting.

if you want a fight, find an enemy... stop trying to beat up your friends. it leads to all kinds of terrible competition on sides that are supposed to be working together. if you need a duel to fix your build... that means you need maybe a total of 3 duels? i gaurantee you can find 3 different fights in cyrodiil.

Really, which MMOs were those?

Some of the MMOs that had dueling:

Ultima Online
Everquest 1
Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
City of Heroes
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
Lineage
Plenty of no-name graphical and text MMOs

Well come on now. None of those are mainstream. I have never even heard of World of Warcraft.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Ghostbane wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

WTF is an Oplar?

I thought it was OP Templar ?

Who the hell knows. It was a terrible argument from what I could interpret anyway.

Cody

There is absolutely no reason why there should not be a dueling system. It would only add more of a thrill to the game.

oh and arena based PvP is coming: the imperial city

Kypho

Ghostbane wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

WTF is an Oplar?

I thought it was OP Templar ?

yupp

Kypho

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

1. any class vs Oplar, Oplar wins maybe DK has chance
2. any armor vs lightarmor, lightarmor noobism wins
3. normal gameplay vs anim canceling, anim canceling wins.

etc.

ESO is the worst balanced game ever made, and allowing all kind of BS what is the weakness of the combat mechanism. ZoS failed to reproduce the fun combat system of ES games. They have weakness ofc, but they are single player game.
So. Better no duel than duel in such a faulty crap combat system, what lacks in class and armor ballance, spammerama, fastattack ani.can.att.all.th.time.

lightattack canceled following with a skill what is canceled.... Its like : Lighcancfollwiskwhcanc. makes same sense... st...d ZoS

So even after you edited your post you decided to ignore the terrible spelling errors? No offense man but it's hard to take your post seriously with such terrible grammar that I have to try and figure out what you're trying to say. WTF is an Oplar?

Sorry. I edited it because i added some things.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

1. any class vs Oplar, Oplar wins maybe DK has chance
2. any armor vs lightarmor, lightarmor noobism wins
3. normal gameplay vs anim canceling, anim canceling wins.

etc.

ESO is the worst balanced game ever made, and allowing all kind of BS what is the weakness of the combat mechanism. ZoS failed to reproduce the fun combat system of ES games. They have weakness ofc, but they are single player game.
So. Better no duel than duel in such a faulty crap combat system, what lacks in class and armor ballance, spammerama, fastattack ani.can.att.all.th.time.

lightattack canceled following with a skill what is canceled.... Its like : Lighcancfollwiskwhcanc. makes same sense... st...d ZoS

So even after you edited your post you decided to ignore the terrible spelling errors? No offense man but it's hard to take your post seriously with such terrible grammar that I have to try and figure out what you're trying to say. WTF is an Oplar?

Hehh sorry about that. OPlar is the templar. And about that post:

Issues: Class ballance, lightarmor > other armors, animation canceling, magicka builds > stamina builds

and not speaking about bugs, lag.

MiyaTheUnbroken

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Agreed OP. I would love to see a duelling system in place. The problem is that Cyrodiil is simply too inaccessible to some people, too much running, too much zerging, not enough actual fighting, too many ego's trying to dictate play. It's simply not a fun experience for all. They have missed a HUGE market. Many of my friends un-subbed simply due to this matter, I can only imagine how many others have done the same.

This is why I said copy EQ's. In that game you can duel anywhere, at any time. you just target someone and /duel, if they accept then you are able to deal damage to each other. You can agree before hand if you want to fight to the death, or just until 10% so you don't have to go on a corpse run, which in this game would be so you don't have to use a soul gem. With this system you wouldn't have to go to Cyrodiil. However, I have no idea how much work that would be, or if it's even possible for them to add.

SoulScream

I was very surprised at no /duel command. I'm still surprised I have to relog to get my mail.

lfa66ub17_ESO

Please make a duel sistem and i will come back to play again, im boring of cirodyl fights.

Aminals

I have always wanted to be able to duel in pve zones in all mmos. So much down time in raids and dungeons, it would give you something to do while the guy is brb. The npcs would just make it interesting.

Khyras

Duels and battlegrounds would be great, this constant back and forth on the same map for a year now is too repetitive.

xDOVAHKIINx

Even if there is a lore issue with this WHO CARES?! really who cares. When they nerf Dark Elf fire resist that broke any integrity this game had in "lore"

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS just add simple instanced 1v1 with anyone who wishes make it a quick slot on your Q menu like trade and whisper.

Sypher

Kypho wrote: »

1. any class vs Oplar, Oplar wins maybe DK has chance
2. any armor vs lightarmor, lightarmor noobism wins
3. normal gameplay vs anim canceling, anim canceling wins.

etc.

ESO is the worst balanced game ever made, and allowing all kind of BS what is the weakness of the combat mechanism. ZoS failed to reproduce the fun combat system of ES games. They have weakness ofc, but they are single player game.
So. Better no duel than duel in such a faulty crap combat system, what lacks in class and armor ballance, spammerama, fastattack ani.can.att.all.th.time.

lightattack canceled following with a skill what is canceled.... Its like : Lighcancfollwiskwhcanc. makes same sense... st...d ZoS

Been dueling for close to 8 months now.

Have witnessed multiple classes, armor types, and builds win tournaments. So your preconceived notions about the balance is a little off.

Philthyorc

There is obviously demand for this. How many post like these do they need to see? I don't know why they are dragging their feet... We saw the 5 v 5 at quakecon, we know it can be done ZOS... Quit playing and let us play !

Pecivilis

They NEED dueling, mainly so I can kill @Astien

Forestd16b14_ESO

More post about this and it's always the same answer.... PvP arenas come on Brian Wheeler you can put one in with the Imperial city they got a bloody arena. Every one wants PvP arena.

Tintinabula

Duels would mean that we could monitor patches..armor...spells that affected/effected buffs etc.I dont think theyre ready to give us that knowledge...knowledge is power and all that.

Valymer

Tintinabula wrote: »

Duels would mean that we could monitor patches..armor...spells that affected/effected buffs etc.I dont think theyre ready to give us that knowledge...knowledge is power and all that.

Because they don't want us to realize precisely how much is hopelessly broken upon release?

Tintinabula

Valymer wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

Duels would mean that we could monitor patches..armor...spells that affected/effected buffs etc.I dont think theyre ready to give us that knowledge...knowledge is power and all that.

Because they don't want us to realize precisely how much is hopelessly broken upon release?

Exactly . People would start crunching numbers and holding ZOS accountable on what these tooltips describe. I would use dueling specifically for this purpose...to max my damage against all classes and types of attacks. I used to duel with my BF in RIFT all the time when there was a skill(someone elses) that i was having problems with.

I do think though it wouldn't be as bad as they imagine. It would give us the ability to stream line our skills and point allocation etc.

Astien

Pecivilis wrote: »

They NEED dueling, mainly so I can kill @Astien

wil rek u irl