Thoughts on removal of Vet Points & Champion System?

Acemcfly101

So, I know there is the old discussion for the Road Ahead thread from August, but I wanted to get a discussion going on the supposed "3-step nerf to Vet content" and specifically the final step of implementing the Champion System and doing away with VP completely. Months after the Road Ahead article, as we near the final step of the nerfing and after seeing the updates from the Guild Summit, it seems that ZoS is not slowing down or changing plans at all despite many comments I've seen. I would like to hear all of your opinions on the Champion System and the planned changes to VR content.

I understand there may be some positives to the Champion Point system, but my primary concern is that, if they make this game any easier, or make the VR content no longer "veteran" and more like 1-50, we will have lost the one and only relieving aspect of this game's PVE. I am not a fan of the initial nerfs they implemented, (like making VR content easier all around, which was done as some people were complaining VR 'forces' you to group) but I can truck through it. The main issue is: how much is too much? It's called "Veteran". Not 51-64.

My experience (as a DK) leveling through 1-50 was a constant race against the experience meter, forcing me to skip content (which I hated doing) in order to maintain a challenge. And sure, if I wanted to do grey-low green quests all the time, I may have been able to do it all, but there would have been very little satisfaction in that. I can totally get behind the idea of trying to keep all your players happy, but I don't think that should be approached by giving the whole game a general feel that satisfies the medium opinion, and rather by having general content available to please everyone in one area (like 1-50) and having some areas for heightened preferences even if some of it doesn't appeal to some players -- Just like how some players choose not to PvP. In other words, I don't want to have to group with 4 others for 3+ hours in Dragonstar Arena or trials just to get a challenge; I want single player PVE quests that are rewarding and fun that hold my interest and don't force me to skip around to maintain a challenge.

I have seen a lot of comments since (early august I think) about players not really caring for the dimmed down version of Vet, and also voicing fears of the upcoming nerfs. From my angle, the whole constellation point system could be really cool if implemented correctly, but at what cost will we get this new system? If the cost is difficulty, even in the slightest bit at this point, you can take that system back to the drawing board. I'm tired of difficulty nerfs. This game having everything in set levels and unchangeable difficulty and near-insulting quest markers makes it hard enough to feel challenged but make me a nerf sandwich on top of it and I'll go crazy!

One thing I like about the current Vet system is that (unlike 1-50) I can face mobs at the same level as me through an entire zone while not skipping quests. I hope we don't lose that aspect.

I've also heard many comments concerning how the Champion System will work as a whole, regardless of Vet difficulty concerns. People saying the whole up-to-700-point thing and other aspects feel like a huge change.

^^These are my thoughts. I've been focusing on the VR removal and difficulty aspects, but I am interested in hearing you guys' thoughts on all things Champion System. We've got a lot of information to go on now. Let me know your take on it.

Dalexx

Acemcfly101 wrote: »

but my primary concern is that, if they make this game any easier, or make the VR content no longer "veteran" and more like 1-50, we will have lost the one and only relieving aspect of this game's PVE. I am not a fan of the initial nerfs they implemented, (like making VR content easier all around, which was done as some people were complaining VR 'forces' you to group)

Outside of, I don't like the Veterans system period, because it removed any desire to roll another character since I will now have done all the quest, I like the nerfs they did.

I made it to Vet 5 before I got tired of the grind and finding myself out of quests before I reached the next level. I went to the next zone and had a tough time. So I un-subbed back in May. I re-subbed after update 4 was released and I like it a lot better.

My complaint before all the updates, is one pack of mobs was easy, next pack melted me and I had no real clue to why. Did I miss some super attacked? Did I stand in fire? Did I just get hit too much too fast? That kind of thing drove me batty and then the lack of quests and the expectation I was going to grind 200-400K XP in dungeons over and over just wasn't for me. I'm guessing it wasn't for a lot of other people as well.

The answer is always the same on these kind of things, If you find the game too easy, then the problem isn't the game. Zenimax has to make it so the majority of players can make it through the Vet system and make it so they can have fun doing it. Making zones difficult enough so that 1-4% of the hardcore player base can enjoy them and feel challenge will never work for a company trying to make money off subscriptions.

It's easier for a hardcore player to make the content harder for themselves. So so players don't really have a way to make the game easier for themselves.

Beesting

I think champion system = people grinding all 7 bagspace alts to vr14 for the points

Time will tell
If i had more time off work i would probably do the same, haha, but i am still leveling my main so it doesn't really change my gameplay

Qyrk

Beesting wrote: »

I think champion system = people grinding all 7 bagspace alts to vr14 for the points

not.... necessarily. As per recent information brought up in the guild summit, even after you hit v14 with your main (max level), your exp still gets accounted for (you don't visually see it) and gets added up ripe for the transition to the CP. Best to wait until speculations like these spread like wildfire. Besides, they did mention there will be a cap in to how much of the VP will be transferred over to CP. But again best to wait for more specifics.

TL;DR ->> The exp you earn even after reaching level cap, v14, will still be accumulated and added.

KenjiJU

I suspect the total Champ points initially awarded are going to be nerfed down thanks to the scorpion grinders and similar. Not a big deal for me, but a bit unfair for the people who took the time to make multiple VR chars.

MikeMoss

Hi

The thing that bugs me about the Veteran system now is that you slog away to make four million points to level and then nothing happens.

No new skills, no really noticeable improvements in anything.
Your level number just changes and then you start the slog all over again.

I at least want to be able to raise my armor or magic skills or something to make me feel like I leveled.

Maybe this will fix this and leveling will mean something again.

Mike

curlyqloub14_ESO

Like the OP, I am pretty much always over level for quests - it is disappointing - I wish they'd implement some sort of difficulty selector.

But on another separate/related note, I am wondering what will happen to all the gear and crafting stuff that is vet rank. Will your V14 armor now provide the same stats as level 50 armor? What about all those crafting mats (for not only armor, but also food, potions and glyphs), and the skill points spent to make those items? Should I just stop levelling my crafting for anything past lvl 50? I see this as potentially very disheartening for crafters who have maxxed their skills.

Enodoc

The way I understood it, it's not a "3-step nerf"; the steps are "1: nerf", "2: VP to XP", "3: Champion Points". Nothing else is going to be nerfed; as in, nothing will get easier. It's just the implementation and overall functionality of the system that's going to change, not the difficulty.

Stautmeister

MikeMoss wrote: »

Hi

The thing that bugs me about the Veteran system now is that you slog away to make four million points to level and then nothing happens.

No new skills, no really noticeable improvements in anything.
Your level number just changes and then you start the slog all over again.

I at least want to be able to raise my armor or magic skills or something to make me feel like I leveled.

Maybe this will fix this and leveling will mean something again.

Mike

Ive said the exact same thing multiple times.
The effort/reward ratio is off. Questing for me is a way to get my character stronger and in better gear. Wh0en i spend 5 hours to gain 4 armor and 1 skillpoint.. I dont feel rewarded.

Its not hardcore to do menial tasks for no rewards. Thats a job.

Tabbycat

I've been purposely holding off getting into the Vet levels because I'm trying to wait for the Champion system. I think the new system will be much more rewarding than what we have now.

Doskias

MikeMoss wrote: »

Hi

The thing that bugs me about the Veteran system now is that you slog away to make four million points to level and then nothing happens.

No new skills, no really noticeable improvements in anything.
Your level number just changes and then you start the slog all over again.

I at least want to be able to raise my armor or magic skills or something to make me feel like I leveled.

Maybe this will fix this and leveling will mean something again.

Mike

This is being fixed with Update 5. You will get attribute points and skill points for VR levels.

GazettE

Hi

If my current character only VR 12 and when the Champion system implemented to the server, will there any big difference on the number of champion points i get compare with character with VR 14?

or is there any other big difference between people who have reached VR 14 and those who have not?

and the last one is, i read the introduction about champion system in mmorpg.com and they said that there is 1200 Champion points in total which we can get it from doing anything that yield exp (questing, grinding, dungeon) and this system is account wide.

now my question is :
if I make few alt and lvl it until 50 and do all quest in three faction just like now, will i get max champion system instead of grinding on 1 character?

Thank you

Gyudan

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Like the OP, I am pretty much always over level for quests - it is disappointing - I wish they'd implement some sort of difficulty selector.

Players complained about the vet levels requiring too much grind, so they reduced the VP requirements.
Now players complain about being too high level for the content.
People ...

reften

Beesting wrote: »

I think champion system = people grinding all 7 bagspace alts to vr14 for the points

Time will tell
If i had more time off work i would probably do the same, haha, but i am still leveling my main so it doesn't really change my gameplay

If this, instant unsubscribe. If I can't level my champion pts with my one character (I hate alts of any kind), then I'm done. I don't want to redo all the content over and over and over...

EsORising

Here's a thought: when is all this content actually being released? Will the hardcore people that grinded to VR14 even still be around? There are no dates given so they can pretty much string us along. Does anyone have even a rumor when the champion system is coming out? No info usually means its not happen for at least another year.

EsORising

For the people who "trucked" through VR level's you probably don't do anything but play Elder Scrolls. I'm not insulting anyone but lets be honest. The overall community doesn't have that kind of time or doesn't want to commit that much time to an MMO, especially with the VR system has the same content with absolutely no reward. The MMO formula x10 grind x0 reward is broken and the community is dying. The champion system is an absolute must but will it be released before ESO loses a big chunk of their community?

glak

Beesting wrote: »

I think champion system = people grinding all 7 bagspace alts to vr14 for the points

Time will tell
If i had more time off work i would probably do the same, haha, but i am still leveling my main so it doesn't really change my gameplay

You get faster XP grinding Craglorn on your main than repeating quests from levels 3-50 with just one alt. Maybe evens out if they are all DKs in skirts w/ fire poles.

Just for those who need proof:

What is the total XP needed to hit VR1?
137 K

How much XP (not VP) do you get with one Serpent run?