is champ systerm coming in update 5 ?

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Maybe i miss read this but from this snippet it seems its coming in update 5?




◾Update 5 will reduce the passive stat boosts from veteran ranks, but grant attribute and skill points for the player to choose how to spend.

The champion system will be introduced, and at first both the Champion and Veteran systems will co-exist for a short time, with the ultimate goal of replacing Veteran entirely. In update 5, Veteran Ranks will be converted from VP to XP, so experience points will be the currency for character advancement throughout.

You will spend your champion points in any of 9 constellations:
◾Health (Warrior, Lord, and Lady)
◾Magicka (Mage, Ritual, and Atronach)
◾Stamina (Tower, Lover, and Thief)

CirithValaria

It will come in phases. In GU 5 they will only remove veteran points and convert them to regular exp..

No firm date for later changes, but they are coming.
Slow process, because they are really changing things on current system.

EDIT:
Link for Tamriel Foundrys "guild summit post" by Atropos:
http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit/
for those in here that doesn't follow TF.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Okie but one thing confuses me,

it says they will remove the stat boosts gained at vet lvl and convert them champ points, if they wont be introducing the system to spend them yet, then wouldn't this be a huge nerf?

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

This bit here


◾Update 5 will reduce the passive stat boosts from veteran ranks, but grant attribute and skill points for the player to choose how to spend


so it says they will be taking away any stat boost beyond 50, but if the champ system isn't there at that time for us to then spend those points, isn't this a huge nerf?

stewie_801

Attribute and skill points are different then the champion points. Vet levels just gave us a flat level of increase of our health, magicka, and stamina. They are getting rid of that and giving us attribute points and skill points to spend. You already get 49 attribute points for leveling. Now we will have more. How many more could determine whether this is a nerf or buff or keep us about the same.

Also to answer the question about champ system coming in update 5. It is no, unless anything changes, but doubtful. Like the other poster said, VP is getting switched to XP in this update.

CirithValaria

@DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs
If I understand it right, they are giving us attribute and skill points at vr level ups.
It was always weird not to have anything when you lvl up at veteran rank...

EDIT: and like @stewie_801 said "Now we will have more".
Or the same but in much more "makes sense way"..

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Okie so for example, they actually say reduce not remove, but say the reduce the stats at vet lvl and give you attribute points and skill points, i guess you could then just put the attribute points in say stam for example, to make up for the reduction.

but there is no attribute points for crit or armor ect? And a skill point will simply get you other skills fine but its not going to make up for missing 10% for example.

so my thinking was that either we get nerfed or they introduce the system then we get to choose where the points go, but surely they have to do this at the same time or its a nerf right?

maybe its just me.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

We do get stat boosts to crit,armor and other stats at vet lvl dnt we?

so what i mean is, its fine to give me attribute points back, but how is that going to make up for my armor stat loss?

CirithValaria

Well they have said to balance and change thing so I guess this is part of that.
Wouldn't call it a nerf myself, at least not just yet

Edit: Hard to know what exactly they meant by reducing passive boosts, but I'm sure it's nothing that huge. Specially nothing to stress about
I think they are only removing the "automatic passive boosts" we get at vr and giving us a freedom of choice in that regards..and rewards for lvling up at vr ofc.

stewie_801

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs wrote: »

We do get stat boosts to crit,armor and other stats at vet lvl dnt we?

so what i mean is, its fine to give me attribute points back, but how is that going to make up for my armor stat loss?

As far as I know, no we don't. Your soft cap for armor/spell resist changes. So if you are at those numbers, you will notice an increase because you are not losing as much stats. Crit stays the same, solely based on armor/passives, and set bonuses and PVP bonuses.

Still as far as a nerf goes, like @CirithValaria said, we will have to wait and see. From what I remember we get +10 across the board for magicka/stam/health per vet rank. Health maybe 15 but I don't remember for sure. If they end up giving us 1 attribute point per vet level, then we won't be able to get the same stats as before and would then be a nerf. If they gave us 3 attributes per vet rank, we could choose which stats to buff up and wouldn't be a nerf.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Armor loss to my tank is a nerf me thinks ehehe, but its all just speculation i guess we just wont know till the time comes, i just cant help my self wondering these things.

Niebla

Will the champion system (xp earning) be by account or by character?

Thinking about alters.... (will be a pain leveling all)

CirithValaria

I think you get xp to that character you play, but earned champion points are account wide and you can spent them by playing char A and improving char B...

"Champion experience is earned through regular XP, so it’s very transparent and the system makes sense."

"All characters on your account get the benefits you have earned."

"You spend champion points in nine constellations. All characters on your account get the benefits you have earned, but your points can be spent on a per-character basis."

stewie_801

Niebla wrote: »

Will the champion system (xp earning) be by account or by character?

Thinking about alters.... (will be a pain leveling all)

They said the points will be account wide, you can spend them how you want on each character. So alts once they are level 50 will earn champion points for your account. You also won't have access to your accounts champion points until you reach level 50.

Now I believe your xp be will earned individually/per character. i.e. if let's say it takes 100k of xp to get a champion points, you will need to earn that on one character. 50k on two characters won't get you a champion point. 100k on two would get your account 2 champion points you can spend on both characters though. Hopefully that all makes sense. If you check out the link in the first reply, they have a little more info/details about it, and probably explains it better.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

I have two vet 10s and a vet 7, does this mean ima be getting lots more points? Than say my friend that has only one vet? And that i can spend all those points on one character?

CirithValaria

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs wrote: »

I have two vet 10s and a vet 7, does this mean ima be getting lots more points? Than say my friend that has only one vet? And that i can spend all those points on one character?

Yes

stewie_801

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs wrote: »

I have two vet 10s and a vet 7, does this mean ima be getting lots more points? Than say my friend that has only one vet? And that i can spend all those points on one character?

Yes you will, they said there will be a cap though, didn't state a number or anything that I know of. Not sure how many champion points we get per VR level. I've seen some people say some numbers, never saying where they got those numbers from though, so no clue if they are accurate.

Lets say you have 20 champion points. From what I understand, you will be able to spend 20 on all your characters individually.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

What is really interesting with the attribute return is where will i put them? I mean i really have no issues with stam on my nb, i never run out, so the possibilities for hybrid specs could be possible, depending how many we get back, at the very least this would be very interesting in pvp, since i have no more need for any more stam i could choose to boost my health or magika for cloak spam, i hope we get a decent amount back so we can truly play how we want.

CirithValaria

stewie_801 wrote: »

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs wrote: »

I have two vet 10s and a vet 7, does this mean ima be getting lots more points? Than say my friend that has only one vet? And that i can spend all those points on one character?

Yes you will, they said there will be a cap though, didn't state a number or anything that I know of. Not sure how many champion points we get per VR level. I've seen some people say some numbers, never saying where they got those numbers from though, so no clue if they are accurate.

Lets say you have 20 champion points. From what I understand, you will be able to spend 20 on all your characters individually.

Idk if I understood correctly, but IMO they said they will remove all caps completely
"Soft caps are being removed entirely."
and that with champion points to prevent HC players getting too far or major min-maxing they will reduce the champion point value the more you focus on something.

"A big concern of the champion system is to prevent it from creating a huge separation between players who have earned a lot of champion points and those who have not, both in terms of power and in terms of potential."

"Champion points are more meaningful in the beginning of the system – the value of each champion point degrades as you invest further into a specific skill. For example, the first point you spend in Light Armor gives you a +1.0% bonus to armor, but the 40th point only gives you +0.1%.
This encourages players to diversify their points towards the beginning of earning Champion points.
This prevents players who come late to the system from being irrecoverably far behind veteran players."

EDIT: if you meant this:
"Each source of benefit to a certain stat has it’s own caps. For example, buffs, equipment, traits, and more will each have their own independent maxima to contributing towards the overall limit."
Then np

stewie_801

CirithValaria wrote: »

stewie_801 wrote: »

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs wrote: »

I have two vet 10s and a vet 7, does this mean ima be getting lots more points? Than say my friend that has only one vet? And that i can spend all those points on one character?

Yes you will, they said there will be a cap though, didn't state a number or anything that I know of. Not sure how many champion points we get per VR level. I've seen some people say some numbers, never saying where they got those numbers from though, so no clue if they are accurate.

Lets say you have 20 champion points. From what I understand, you will be able to spend 20 on all your characters individually.

Idk if I understood correctly, but IMO they said they will remove all caps completely and that with champion points to prevent HC players getting too far or major min-maxing they will reduce the champion point value the more you focus on something.

"A big concern of the champion system is to prevent it from creating a huge separation between players who have earned a lot of champion points and those who have not, both in terms of power and in terms of potential."

"Champion points are more meaningful in the beginning of the system – the value of each champion point degrades as you invest further into a specific skill. For example, the first point you spend in Light Armor gives you a +1.0% bonus to armor, but the 40th point only gives you +0.1%.
This encourages players to diversify their points towards the beginning of earning Champion points.
This prevents players who come late to the system from being irrecoverably far behind veteran players."

yeah I got that too, but I also understood that if my account has 20 champion points, I can spend 20 on one character and 20 on another. Not 10 on one, 10 on another.

"All characters on your account get the benefits you have earned, but your points can be spent on a per-character basis."

Also based off of an interview Paul Sage did the ElderScrolls Off The Record back before Quakecon, and also Quakecons presentation. Maybe I misunderstood it also.

CirithValaria

Agree^^.. that's what it sounds more often than not.
Well we will see

stewie_801

I just realized your comment was probably about me saying there was a cap. They said they were getting rid of soft caps, but what I was meaning by a cap was

"Earned veteran ranks will convert into champion XP, but there will be a maximum on the amount that will be allowed to convert."

So having 8 max level characters may not do you any good when this initially comes out versus 3 max level. Or some variant in between.

killedbyping

Veteran ranks gave us increased soft caps values.
So yes, this will be a huge nerf. You wouldnt be able to achieve same stats if you just get stats points instead of soft cap increase.

Requiemslove

CirithValaria wrote: »

I think you get xp to that character you play, but earned champion points are account wide and you can spent them by playing char A and improving char B...

"Champion experience is earned through regular XP, so it’s very transparent and the system makes sense."

"All characters on your account get the benefits you have earned."

"You spend champion points in nine constellations. All characters on your account get the benefits you have earned, but your points can be spent on a per-character basis."

This sounds a bit to me like borderlands bad a** ranks. That is AWESOME. Hopefully it will be much more substantial than the former, that being said, as the borderlands bad a** ranks although can forever be improved, become less and less pronounced the more bad a** tokens you earn via completing the huge variety of tasks to earn them. For me it would be cool if ESO adopted a similar model. Where for instance you could improve a character via slaying x amount of enemy, or defeating y super bad a** uber boss. It would definitely get me back in the game as the veteran ranks were a big turn off for me in ESO.

Kego

killedbyping wrote: »

Veteran ranks gave us increased soft caps values.
So yes, this will be a huge nerf. You wouldnt be able to achieve same stats if you just get stats points instead of soft cap increase.

It is currently nothing. Cause they said reduce and not removed. I don't think that there are a lot people, that has maxed every single Attribute as they would like to.

So this can be a buff as well, cause you could get at least 14 additional Attribute Points, that you can spend on increasing Health, Magicka and Stamina.

+210 HP or +140 Magicka/Stamina.

This might come out for a minor nerf for races with Bonis to Health, Magicka or Stamina. For every other race, this change will be a buff.

killedbyping

Kego wrote: »

killedbyping wrote: »

Veteran ranks gave us increased soft caps values.
So yes, this will be a huge nerf. You wouldnt be able to achieve same stats if you just get stats points instead of soft cap increase.

It is currently nothing. Cause they said reduce and not removed. I don't think that there are a lot people, that has maxed every single Attribute as they would like to.

So this can be a buff as well, cause you could get at least 14 additional Attribute Points, that you can spend on increasing Health, Magicka and Stamina.

+210 HP or +140 Magicka/Stamina.

This might come out for a minor nerf for races with Bonis to Health, Magicka or Stamina. For every other race, this change will be a buff.

As i just said, you simply wont be able to achieve same stats as you have atm ,because your soft caps will be much lower therefore you will be getting only half (or it is 1/3?) of stats from your additional stat points and gear\enchant buffs.
+210 HP or +140 Magicka/Stamina ? That is nowhere near to what you could have if your soft cap would be higher.
If you mean you could simply invest those points lets say, into stamina instead of magicka then ... meh... its just stupid to every1 have all of their stats maxed.
Also dont forget you get 1 more natural spell power with each additional vet rank.

Rune_Relic

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs wrote: »

What is really interesting with the attribute return is where will i put them? I mean i really have no issues with stam on my nb, i never run out, so the possibilities for hybrid specs could be possible, depending how many we get back, at the very least this would be very interesting in pvp, since i have no more need for any more stam i could choose to boost my health or magika for cloak spam, i hope we get a decent amount back so we can truly play how we want.

I think the idea is for fine tuning.
Think % rather than points.
3 - 4 - 5 = 8.3% per point of the overall points .
6 - 8 - 10 = 4.16% per point of overall points.
This throroughly changes the granularity and focus of each attribute letting you fine tune the system specificially to your playstyle and get the very best out of it.
ie Horizontal progression.

[if attributes simply multiplies power levels...you would end up with a vertical progression system that lets high level players run away from the low level players with no chance to catch up]

With those attribute points will come the skill points...to let you add diversity to your character (add more niche skills).
ie Horizontal progression.
[I know....how can you diversify a specialist. But you can increase your skills in a specialist area]

The idea being you become a totally unique hybrid.

Tabbycat

The whole Champion thing is confusing. I keep hearing conflicting information on it. I honestly think we won't really understand how it works until it makes it to the PTS.

Koensol

Tabbycat wrote: »

The whole Champion thing is confusing. I keep hearing conflicting information on it. I honestly think we won't really understand how it works until it makes it to the PTS.

Agreed. Although this is nothing new with ZOS. Their explanations and tooltips ingame have also been pretty vague.

kitsinni

There is basically no way it will come in update 5 they are not even close to it yet. They said it would come in 3 phases we are not even on phase 2 yet. I don't even think they really have it all figured out. I wouldn't say 6 months + for full implementation is not out of the question.

Phase 2 will be the easy part just instead of getting VP when you kill something you get normal XP and that normal XP will get you your vet ranks. I wouldn't even be surprised if we saw another vet level raise or two before phase 3.

Phase 3 is almost a soft relaunch. They are planning to convert all vet gear, vet levels, crafting, vet level crafting mats, alchemy, provisioning to be at level 50 somehow. They plan to remove soft caps, change skills, passives, gear sets, to accommodate the Champion system. Then they are going to add a supposedly never ending set of passives you can purchase with your already accumulated champion points. Then all xp earned after 50 will go towards champion points. I think people drastically underestimate just how much of a change this is going to be and how difficult it is going to be.

Inversus

Tabbycat wrote: »

The whole Champion thing is confusing. I keep hearing conflicting information on it. I honestly think we won't really understand how it works until it makes it to the PTS.

Yeah
They have said that it will transfer across characters, though, which is what draws me in.