Why are the NPC archers so strong?

Nightfall33

I mean they just one shot me every F*cking time!

Cody

They use Plasma rifles. The rifles have a holographic projection that makes them look like bows.

Sypher

When we asked for stamina buffs, Zenimax accidentally gave the buffs to the archer guards instead of the actual players.

Phinix1

I don't know if it was the archer or not; I have seen them knock me BACK before. But yesterday inside a keep, something pulled me forward over the edge and down into the pit of NPC's. No players were there and besides, DK chains doesn't work like that (massive upwards angle) anymore.

Maybe it was a ZOS GM screwing with me. XD

Lava_Croft

The archers were added to make taking keeps harder. It got a bit old than a single person could take a keep all by himself. (Something which probably still is possible with some of the more OP builds out there.)

Rylana

Because arrows hurt.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

If you stand there and let them peg you yeah they are gonna 1 shot you. If you have distance closers, stuns, takedowns, spam those nonstop. As much as I disagree with people on the forums there are valid points. Not everything is "omg they too strong". PVP requires tactical thinking and adaptation. If you can do neither, you have no business PVPing.

Cody

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

If you stand there and let them peg you yeah they are gonna 1 shot you. If you have distance closers, stuns, takedowns, spam those nonstop. As much as I disagree with people on the forums there are valid points. Not everything is "omg they too strong". PVP requires tactical thinking and adaptation. If you can do neither, you have no business PVPing.

its a huge problem when two keep archers kill an entire 24 man/woman group...... all you can do against these NPCs is act like kamikaze pilots and keep rushing them until they die. they have far to much health for spamming CCs to work, and they can even one shot players if they are a low level.

thankfully, a team of high lvl vets can do a lot better against them

Huntler

Cody wrote: »

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

If you stand there and let them peg you yeah they are gonna 1 shot you. If you have distance closers, stuns, takedowns, spam those nonstop. As much as I disagree with people on the forums there are valid points. Not everything is "omg they too strong". PVP requires tactical thinking and adaptation. If you can do neither, you have no business PVPing.

its a huge problem when two keep archers kill an entire 24 man/woman group...... all you can do against these NPCs is act like kamikaze pilots and keep rushing them until they die. they have far to much health for spamming CCs to work, and they can even one shot players if they are a low level

If two keep archers are killing your 24 man... the archers aren't the problem buddy....

Maulkin

Huntler wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

If you stand there and let them peg you yeah they are gonna 1 shot you. If you have distance closers, stuns, takedowns, spam those nonstop. As much as I disagree with people on the forums there are valid points. Not everything is "omg they too strong". PVP requires tactical thinking and adaptation. If you can do neither, you have no business PVPing.

its a huge problem when two keep archers kill an entire 24 man/woman group...... all you can do against these NPCs is act like kamikaze pilots and keep rushing them until they die. they have far to much health for spamming CCs to work, and they can even one shot players if they are a low level

If two keep archers are killing your 24 man... the archers aren't the problem buddy....

Cody

Huntler wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

If you stand there and let them peg you yeah they are gonna 1 shot you. If you have distance closers, stuns, takedowns, spam those nonstop. As much as I disagree with people on the forums there are valid points. Not everything is "omg they too strong". PVP requires tactical thinking and adaptation. If you can do neither, you have no business PVPing.

its a huge problem when two keep archers kill an entire 24 man/woman group...... all you can do against these NPCs is act like kamikaze pilots and keep rushing them until they die. they have far to much health for spamming CCs to work, and they can even one shot players if they are a low level

If two keep archers are killing your 24 man... the archers aren't the problem buddy....

well..... then what is
(btw, im talking about blackwater blade)

Rune_Relic

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

If you stand there and let them peg you yeah they are gonna 1 shot you. If you have distance closers, stuns, takedowns, spam those nonstop. As much as I disagree with people on the forums there are valid points. Not everything is "omg they too strong". PVP requires tactical thinking and adaptation. If you can do neither, you have no business PVPing.

We want to encourage people to PVP and not scare them off. Better having someone on the inside spitting out than the outside spitting in.
Try building a bridge instead of a wall

Rune_Relic

Did you get hit in the knee ?

Blooddancer

NPC archers have seemed more dangerous than my NB since day 1. So much so that I still target them ahead of anything other than healers and pyros. Still the most common cause of death is that second archer I just didnt get too quick enough.

LonePirate

On Blackwater Blade, a couple of archers can wipe out numerous non-vet players. People who are quick to insult the players here (presumably thinking these players are VR10+ players on a regular campaign) are simply displaying their own ignorance of the situation on Blackwater where all of the guards hit like hydrogen bombs and are much more difficult to kill by the much weaker players.

Huntler

Cody wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

If you stand there and let them peg you yeah they are gonna 1 shot you. If you have distance closers, stuns, takedowns, spam those nonstop. As much as I disagree with people on the forums there are valid points. Not everything is "omg they too strong". PVP requires tactical thinking and adaptation. If you can do neither, you have no business PVPing.

its a huge problem when two keep archers kill an entire 24 man/woman group...... all you can do against these NPCs is act like kamikaze pilots and keep rushing them until they die. they have far to much health for spamming CCs to work, and they can even one shot players if they are a low level

If two keep archers are killing your 24 man... the archers aren't the problem buddy....

well..... then what is
(btw, im talking about blackwater blade)

Blocking, CC, dropping oil on guards, burning them down, healing, derping around instead of realizing the guards can mess you up?


I get for blackwater it is definitely tougher, but even still a 24 man wiping to 2 guards is... extravagant

Agrippa_Invisus

I think, in regards to Blackwater, ZOS just needs to lower the level of the npcs to the 45-50 level range. Maybe have level 0 keep guards be 45, with level 5 keep guards being level 50. That'd be more than sufficient to make them acceptable and playable against for the lowbie players.

Maulkin

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I think, in regards to Blackwater, ZOS just needs to lower the level of the npcs to the 45-50 level range. Maybe have level 0 keep guards be 45, with level 5 keep guards being level 50. That'd be more than sufficient to make them acceptable and playable against for the lowbie players.

Of course, that's the correct action.

From what they said somewhere they can't easily do it though, because with their current setup all campaigns are instances of the same Cyrodiil. So if they change something about the world (not scoring f.e.) in one campaign, it changes everywhere.

The NPCs seem to fall in that rule. Which is the reason they keep buffing the players instead of changing the NPCs.

Agrippa_Invisus

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

I think, in regards to Blackwater, ZOS just needs to lower the level of the npcs to the 45-50 level range. Maybe have level 0 keep guards be 45, with level 5 keep guards being level 50. That'd be more than sufficient to make them acceptable and playable against for the lowbie players.

Of course, that's the correct action.

From what they said somewhere they can't easily do it though, because with their current setup all campaigns are instances of the same Cyrodiil. So if they change something about the world (not scoring f.e.) in one campaign, it changes everywhere.

The NPCs seem to fall in that rule. Which is the reason they keep buffing the players instead of changing the NPCs.

They need to stop making excuses and start working on doing what it takes to correct the issue.

Cody

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Did you get hit in the knee ?

haha!

well, I got one shot for 2k+ once..... gonna assume it was a knee shot:)

Nightfall33

LonePirate wrote: »

On Blackwater Blade, a couple of archers can wipe out numerous non-vet players. People who are quick to insult the players here (presumably thinking these players are VR10+ players on a regular campaign) are simply displaying their own ignorance of the situation on Blackwater where all of the guards hit like hydrogen bombs and are much more difficult to kill by the much weaker players.

Well said...Well said....

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Huntler wrote: »

Blocking, CC, dropping oil on guards, burning them down, healing, derping around instead of realizing the guards can mess you up?


I get for blackwater it is definitely tougher, but even still a 24 man wiping to 2 guards is... extravagant

Well if you have 24 people and they wipe to the Archers on Blackwater then your group did do something wrong or there were defenders preventing you for taking out the archers, but the archers can... and do.. 2 shot people regularly in Blackwater.

The common defense tactic is to actually allow attackers to get into archers range and heal the crap out of them and the mage in the back.... those 3 NPCs will wipe out an entire zerg on Blackwater faster than oil... or any siege can.

However... those archers can't be tuned down unless the other campaigns with vets think they are too strong. Sadly Blackwater runs on the same coding as the rest of the campaigns. The only difference is that Blackwater will kick you out when you hit VR1. Everything else is exactly the same as other servers.

Actually to add to this... if you step on the grate above the guards on the front gate then that alone is enough to wipe out groups. Everyone on Blackwater knows to stay off the grate. haha. The guards are stupid crazy OP, but that is actually part of the fun because we developed other tactics to take them out or work around them. Things that Vets don't normally have to even consider.

Cody

Huntler wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

WarrioroftheWind_ESO wrote: »

If you stand there and let them peg you yeah they are gonna 1 shot you. If you have distance closers, stuns, takedowns, spam those nonstop. As much as I disagree with people on the forums there are valid points. Not everything is "omg they too strong". PVP requires tactical thinking and adaptation. If you can do neither, you have no business PVPing.

its a huge problem when two keep archers kill an entire 24 man/woman group...... all you can do against these NPCs is act like kamikaze pilots and keep rushing them until they die. they have far to much health for spamming CCs to work, and they can even one shot players if they are a low level

If two keep archers are killing your 24 man... the archers aren't the problem buddy....

well..... then what is
(btw, im talking about blackwater blade)

Blocking, CC, dropping oil on guards, burning them down, healing, derping around instead of realizing the guards can mess you up?


I get for blackwater it is definitely tougher, but even still a 24 man wiping to 2 guards is... extravagant

oil them?? they will just knock you back with scatter shot! not to mention the changes to oil coming up.... time to learn to live without it

blocking? don't you think I have tried that?

burning them down? yes..... possibly. better have some good healers.. and I mean GOOD.

I hope you do realize I did not just go "oh no, its hard!!!" then ran to the forums complaining. im not like that. I HAVE tried different tactics. iv tried getting up close and CCing them. nope. iv tried range... OBVIOUSLY NO(lol) I have seen oil attempted... and its failed most of the time(and again, upcoming changes to oil....) done it with healers.... nope. still the entire 24+ man/woman group getting slaughtered by the 2 keep archer guards with the plasma rifles that shoot you in the knee...

If this was thornblade i was talking about or any of the other campaigns, your reply to me would be correct, however, its blackwater blade, where EVERYONE is not even at least VR1(those that reach VR1 while in it get kicked out when they log off)

these archers hit us, for 1.5K plus damage 95% of the time.... and they have a TON of health...... just think on it... 90% of the players have about 2K to 2.3K health.... that's 1-2 hits per player.... regardless of healer.... how are we supposed to deal with that, without repeated charges into the meat grinder?

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Cody wrote: »

these archers hit us, for 1.5K plus damage 95% of the time.... and they have a TON of health...... just think on it... 90% of the players have about 2K to 2.3K health.... that's 1-2 hits per player.... regardless of healer.... how are we supposed to deal with that, without repeated charges into the meat grinder?

Right, the archers hit for 800 to 1.5k depending on which skill hit you and if it crits. They have a little over 10,000 hit points... 10,182... something close to that.

Players with the Battle Spirit buff have around 2,100 hit points.. depending on passives. If you are 40-45+ then you can take off the Battle Spirit buff if your natural stats are higher, but even at 45 not all builds will break the stats provided by Battle Spirit.

So you are going against a NPC that can 2 shot you and has 5x your hit point total... if that wasn't bad enough there is another one right by the first one.

All that being said.. there are ways to get around them, but it doesn't seem that a lot of players on Blackwater know about those tactics. I have never seen a PUG group use them for sure.

Huntler

darkdruidssb14_ESO wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

these archers hit us, for 1.5K plus damage 95% of the time.... and they have a TON of health...... just think on it... 90% of the players have about 2K to 2.3K health.... that's 1-2 hits per player.... regardless of healer.... how are we supposed to deal with that, without repeated charges into the meat grinder?

Right, the archers hit for 800 to 1.5k depending on which skill hit you and if it crits. They have a little over 10,000 hit points... 10,182... something close to that.

Players with the Battle Spirit buff have around 2,100 hit points.. depending on passives. If you are 40-45+ then you can take off the Battle Spirit buff if your natural stats are higher, but even at 45 not all builds will break the stats provided by Battle Spirit.

So you are going against a NPC that can 2 shot you and has 5x your hit point total... if that wasn't bad enough there is another one right by the first one.

All that being said.. there are ways to get around them, but it doesn't seem that a lot of players on Blackwater know about those tactics. I have never seen a PUG group use them for sure.

I get that and what Cody is saying, but I just don't think there is any coordination going on. Sure I imagine it can be hard, hell the archers in the other campaigns 1 shot people all the time, but his example of 24 people dying to it is just kinda depressing if that happened. Lets create a simple example. 24 people dying to these 2 archers. Even if you have no healers, hold block and it is unlikely you'll be 1 shot. Then all 24 people use 1 ability... lets say it only does 100 damage (which we all know it will do far more). Thats 2400 damage in on cooldown... (not even counting if you are aoeing down the guards which you likely should). Thats only a handful of cooldowns to kill 1. I feel these are all reasonable measurements. The big issue here I feel is people not anywhere coordinated in any way.... now if the guards are too punishing against people who are uncoordinated thats another point.

As to the point that archer guard knocks you back so you can't set up an oil... come on man he will hit a couple people at most, you have 24... multiple people setting up oils. GG. Or immovable.

darkdruidssb14_ESO

Huntler wrote: »

I get that and what Cody is saying, but I just don't think there is any coordination going on. Sure I imagine it can be hard, hell the archers in the other campaigns 1 shot people all the time, but his example of 24 people dying to it is just kinda depressing if that happened. Lets create a simple example. 24 people dying to these 2 archers. Even if you have no healers, hold block and it is unlikely you'll be 1 shot. Then all 24 people use 1 ability... lets say it only does 100 damage (which we all know it will do far more). Thats 2400 damage in on cooldown... (not even counting if you are aoeing down the guards which you likely should). Thats only a handful of cooldowns to kill 1. I feel these are all reasonable measurements. The big issue here I feel is people not anywhere coordinated in any way.... now if the guards are too punishing against people who are uncoordinated thats another point.

As to the point that archer guard knocks you back so you can't set up an oil... come on man he will hit a couple people at most, you have 24... multiple people setting up oils. GG. Or immovable.

Sure that all works in a bubble... but out in actual PvP with players defending a keep it's a completely different story. Like I said, if the 24 man falls to the archers then it shouldn't be an empty keep they were attacking.

Also most players are between level 10 and level 30 in Blackwater which means you don't have a whole lot of skills you have access to. Immovable.... maybe if they wore Heavy a lot, but not likely for most people on Blackwater.

Also your oil scenario is only going to work until update 5. So that's not a tactic that people should be worrying about learning at this point. People need to learn how to do it without it... which like i said, can be done with other tactics.

Huntler

Indeed, maybe I was taking what Cody said too literally because he said 24 man wiped to 2 archers, sure with an enemy 24 man as well in the keep or at least a decently organized smaller group.... that could be tough but then is it the 2 archers or more than just that.

Rylana

2 archers killing 24 people in 10 seconds is actually legit.

They do 1900+ damage per hit (more if they crit), can attack 2-3 times a second, and in the case of their snipes have no tell-tale whistle sound or animation, they just sort of do them.

When I was emp with over 4500 health on blackwater, I was killed by an archer guard in two hits, through block, death recap of 2600,1900 or something similar.

The other guards arent as bad, but for whatever reason the archers in particular have what seems like complete armor/bracing ignore and attack faster than anything else can.

Note that this ONLY seems to happen on max tier keeps, I think it has something to do with their final tier 5 buff, because lower ranked guards dont do nearly this much damage. (even a heavy armor stamina build DK with sword and board, blocking, is probably going to die if that guard is left up for more than 5-10 seconds)

Cody

Huntler wrote: »

Indeed, maybe I was taking what Cody said too literally because he said 24 man wiped to 2 archers, sure with an enemy 24 man as well in the keep or at least a decently organized smaller group.... that could be tough but then is it the 2 archers or more than just that.

its usually more then that. if there are players defending the keep, it will turn into absolute hell. iv stopped going up the stairs in BB in these keeps because the same thing always happens: the entire group gets wiped by the archers(plus the mage guard that is also sometimes up there)

course, players often hang back and help the guards with ranged attacks, so maybe I was exaggerating.... still though..... guards should not be killing players in one shot...

Xallus

Its so dk's cant solo keeps

Acemcfly101

Because you're not using Reflective Scales :P