To everyone that says you can't play how you want

bosmern_ESO

You really need to stop being ignorant.

You can play any build/class (tank, dps, healer)/ weapon you want whenever you want. Don't say that it was a marketing technique because you had a build and at one point you get stuck on a quest or to bad at PvP so you end up copying and pasting popular builds, thats on you, not ZoS.

It's fairly ironic that you say the game is bad when you give up trying to fight a boss you can't kill, I came across situations like that so many time. You wanna know what I did when I couldn't kill a boss, or kept dying in PvP? I looked at my build, what I was using. I made changes according to the situation at hand, and after a bit of practice I was able to succeed in killing the boss/player. I didn't jump on the forums, and complain that Magicka builds have an advantage over stamina then copy and paste what other people do.

I learned my opponent, I learned my build, I thought tactically and was able to do something I couldn't before. I was a NB using duel wield, which everyone says is a very weak build, though I was able to progress through the whole game and I'm a very well PvPer.

The thing is, there is no perfect build. At some point you will always meet your match, and when you do that should be the time where you take a step back and learn what you were doing wrong, and where you can improve. Instead of crying and complaining like self entitled children that its not fair.

I kill about 80% of the people I come across in PvP because I was hardened and adapted to challenges, I don't expect bosses in PvE to go easy on me, nor do I expect people to, in fact I always want someone to smash me around, and to kick my ass. Why? because I'll learn, I'll be forged into a better player.

So keep saying that you aren't allowed to play how you want because you decide to copy and paste builds, those who do intensive theory crafting and constantly practice their build to perfection will always be better then you, just so you can come on the forums and say that it's unfair.

I send my Peace.

khele23eb17_ESO

And then you try to match this (taken from another thread) as a stamina build:

Drazhar14

I never follow builds that people post. I had an idea of what I wanted my character to be when I started, and from there I experimented with skills until I found a play style that felt right. I had someone whisper me the other day in Craglorn asking what my build was named because they didn't recognize it. I told them it had no name, its just the way I play.

I agree that there is no perfect build. There should always be strengths and weaknesses. Some builds work better in certain situations that others. Some builds are fun. Some builds are boring. I play the way I find fun.

R1ckyDaMan

I cant just turn up with a sword and shield and no skills slotted and say bring it on, well I could but no grp would have me.

OrangeTheCat

Nice post OP. I totally agree. One of the things that ZOS has done right, or at least seems to be trying to do right, is structure a game where most any reasonable build can do well as long as you think about what you are doing and learn to use your build in the most effective way that it can be used (like you are OP); playing to its strengths, not to its weaknesses, and to be adaptable with that build depending on the situational context. I applaud any game maker that either explicitly or implicitly tries to do away with the FOTM build mentality or people who come online saying "What build should I be using for my DK?"

Aeratus

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

I cant just turn up with a sword and shield and no skills slotted and say bring it on, well I could but no grp would have me.

I wish they would buff my Naked Nord Brawler build.

Xeres14

I can't play how I want because I am limited to 5 options per bar.

R1ckyDaMan

Aeratus wrote: »

R1ckyDaMan wrote: »

I cant just turn up with a sword and shield and no skills slotted and say bring it on, well I could but no grp would have me.

I wish they would buff my Naked Nord Brawler build.

I made one, was managing to take out level 8 mobs :P

Nox_Aeterna

Ah irony , never ceases to amuse me :P.

Anyway OP , i cant play the way i want because there are classes in this game and unlike the normal TES games , they actually limit your skills and such in them instead of allowing me to create the char i want to create using all the skills in the game.

Elsterchen

Nice post, and I full heardedly agree.

But

I never understood "play as you like" like you do.

I want to play a thief who does not necessarily return a diamond to some unimportant NPC but has all right to sell it on his own account.

I want to play a redguard that actually fits the elder scroll lore ie does not trust and hence does not USE magic at all (I tried that one - don't try its just frustrating!).

I like to play a paladin that is not forced to steal or lie just to be able to finish the main story.

I like to play a member of some daedric cult and actually be able to counteract the course of the main story.

I hoped with the MMO-factor of ESO it would be possible to get many people filling any of these and numerous more ROLES to play, creating a dynamic and living environment. I really love ESO for at least offering some possibilities concerning role play, but "play as you like" was not reached seen from this perspective.

Nestor

I have a character in Heavy Armor, so you know I am not pursuing an optimal build there.

I put my NB in Medium Armor, so you know I am not optimizing that guy either.

I have a Sorcerer in Light Armor, but, well, that just makes sense. At least she wears pants.

GrimMauKin

I can't play the way I want to because the skills my Nightblade depends are are broken!

Brawn

This whole post is confusing. You start out by saying that people really CAN play however they want to play. Then you immediately admit that you change your build when it can't overcome obstacles. So, it sounds like people CAN play however they want to play... as long as changing their build to match particular circumstances is how they want to play.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that people should be forced to change awful builds in order to overcome challenging content, but why all the hate on people who share / look up useful information about builds? It seems like that was the real focus of your thread, and I really don't understand what point you were trying to make.

reften

Some builds are just harder than others...like, bow nightblade, which just so happens to be one of the most popular builds coming into launch of ESO

Soloeus

Properly built and geared Nightblades are pretty good, why the tears bro? When you get V14, you will see any Class with any Build can pull off amazing DPS. You have to synch the right gear, with the right abilities, traits, etc.

Google is your friend!

bosmern_ESO

Brawn wrote: »

This whole post is confusing. You start out by saying that people really CAN play however they want to play. Then you immediately admit that you change your build when it can't overcome obstacles. So, it sounds like people CAN play however they want to play... as long as changing their build to match particular circumstances is how they want to play.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that people should be forced to change awful builds in order to overcome challenging content, but why all the hate on people who share / look up useful information about builds? It seems like that was the real focus of your thread, and I really don't understand what point you were trying to make.

Like I said, there never is a perfect build, there is no 5 abilities that you can put on a bar and be able to win every single fight ever. Everyone who plays PvP or PvE knows that they need to change their bars if they are sieging, defending, preparing to fight boss, etc.

bosmern_ESO

Soloeus wrote: »

Properly built and geared Nightblades are pretty good, why the tears bro? When you get V14, you will see any Class with any Build can pull off amazing DPS. You have to synch the right gear, with the right abilities, traits, etc.

Google is your friend!

I think you mis-read my post? I'm not saying that I have to copy and paste builds, I use a 2h and can get 1k+ DPS single target. When there's trash I can usually get about 1.5k

Soloeus

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Brawn wrote: »

This whole post is confusing. You start out by saying that people really CAN play however they want to play. Then you immediately admit that you change your build when it can't overcome obstacles. So, it sounds like people CAN play however they want to play... as long as changing their build to match particular circumstances is how they want to play.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that people should be forced to change awful builds in order to overcome challenging content, but why all the hate on people who share / look up useful information about builds? It seems like that was the real focus of your thread, and I really don't understand what point you were trying to make.

Like I said, there never is a perfect build, there is no 5 abilities that you can put on a bar and be able to win every single fight ever. Everyone who plays PvP or PvE knows that they need to change their bars if they are sieging, defending, preparing to fight boss, etc.

Which is why Weapon Swapping is a valuable talent to learn! It is so much a part of effective combat that if you aren't good at it, you run into the error of being a bad player then blaming the game for being too hard.

Teiji

So what you're saying is, we can create a character, do our own action-bars, allocate our skill points and attribute points on our own, yes?

But you're also saying, we can do that, be effective and have fun?

This isn't a normal occurrence? I'd think anyone that's paying for a game would be building into having fun, playing how they want n'all that jazz.

Ninnghizhidda

Suggestion: Go to some busy place, like usually a bank in major cities. Count the "bathrobes & sticks" you see, then count everyone else. Do it a few times if you wish, pick different places, both low and high level areas. I would like to see the results.

Apart from that, yes, of course, "you can play as you like". Only problem is, when your unfortunate build, which happens to also be an "archetype build" (meaning present in most games since time immemorial and also being perfectly viable if not plainly good - hint: "warriors"), turns out to be a "clown", to put it mildly.

And, nope, this isn't some "unfortunate choice of build and skills that somehow screwed up your character because you are a sad noob, LEARN TO PLAY!!!". Otherwise, sure, "play as you want", no problems there.

Dont Shoot

this topic is the best post I've read ever. I was saying "speak it preacher!" and waving my hands in the air

ers101284b14_ESO

I went full heavy sword and board tank. After running a dungeon with my guilds I asked if I should switch to skirt and stick like everyone else and they all yelled NO! into my ear. They where thankful that I was able to survive, take the damage off them, and be viable in a non OP build. Some of the other guildies do run medium armor dual wield and bow setups and do quite well. Not once has anyone ever had to change their build to be good in the group.

Crumpy

Fanboys gonna... fan

Soloeus

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Suggestion: Go to some busy place, like usually a bank in major cities. Count the "bathrobes & sticks" you see, then count everyone else. Do it a few times if you wish, pick different places, both low and high level areas. I would *** to see the results.

Har Har. I bet you are really clever!

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

Apart from that, yes, of course, "you can play as you like". Only problem is, when your unfortunate build, which happens to also be an "archetype build" (meaning present in most games since time immemorial and also being perfectly viable if not plainly good - hint: "warriors"), turns out to be a "clown", to put it mildly.

Then fix your unfortunate build. Running a bad build should NOT make you as good as someone running a good build, get over yourself.

I want a game in which you MUST build your character effectively in order to compete against others who have built themselves correctly. In order for me to play as I want, then players with crap builds and gear MUST lose to players with good skills, abilities and gear.

Ninnghizhidda wrote: »

And, nope, this isn't some "unfortunate choice of build and skills that somehow screwed up your character because you are a sad noob, LEARN TO PLAY!!!". Otherwise, sure, "play as you want", no problems there.

Every Class can effective play Every Role. If you discover your build sucks, RESPEC. This whole thing can be solved on User End. Start by changing your situation, learn to synch your items, traits, enchantments, gear, abilities on your 1-5 bar, use correct rotations. You can change things in your own favor. If you can't change those things, then change what you want. No point in pining over what you know you can't have.

Dont Shoot

I role play. So I play however, whatever class I damn want.

I play an archer healer with a resto staff cause I wanna role play the same character I play table top rpg with and cause I wanna play a Paladin type class. I could careless if I dont do either particular well. I think people are stuck on roles way too much. I hear over and over again stuff like "My tank is tanky enough, my mage isn't nuke-tastic enough, I can't sit 100 yards back n just heal to get exp"

You're in a dungeon to defeat the evil molag bal or whatever. You can kite to tank, you can take a hit for someone to "heal", You can sneak past some bad guys to do "DPS". You can master "PVP" by being a charming person that has lots of friends or knows the tactics that'll really put someone off their stride.

this game isn't wow (Thank god)
classes aren't perfectly balanced because they are all open ended. You can suck if u do stuff wrong. So have a plan. Practice it. Play whatever setup you thoroughly enjoy. It'll all work out that way IMO

Dreyloch

I wanted to play a duel axe or sword wielding heavy armor badass. I'm sorry OP, but try it and tell me how well you do in PvP. Tell me how your going to mitigate the spell damage. Tell me how your going to use DW skills while still having enough stamina to dodge stuff and roll away from Bats and AE's. Tell me how you expect a DK to have enough magicka to cast things since all your effort will be in having enough stamina at the same time.

Tell me those things and I will believe you. Tell me those things and I will be able to play the way "I" want. Until then. you shouldn't be calling anyone ignorant.Because currently that kind of build is NOT FEASIBLE.

Soloeus

Dreyloch wrote: »

I wanted to play a duel axe or sword wielding heavy armor badass. I'm sorry OP, but try it and tell me how well you do in PvP. Tell me how your going to mitigate the spell damage. Tell me how your going to use DW skills while still having enough stamina to dodge stuff and roll away from Bats and AE's. Tell me how you expect a DK to have enough magicka to cast things since all your effort will be in having enough stamina at the same time.

Tell me those things and I will believe you. Tell me those things and I will be able to play the way "I" want. Until then. you shouldn't be calling anyone ignorant.Because currently that kind of build is NOT FEASIBLE.

Oh, stop.

There is no such thing as a "Stamina Build" anyone who wants to limit their use of abilities to stubborn idiocy deserves to lose.

Lets meet in Cyrodil, I need some AP.

Maverick827

Soloeus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

I wanted to play a duel axe or sword wielding heavy armor badass. I'm sorry OP, but try it and tell me how well you do in PvP. Tell me how your going to mitigate the spell damage. Tell me how your going to use DW skills while still having enough stamina to dodge stuff and roll away from Bats and AE's. Tell me how you expect a DK to have enough magicka to cast things since all your effort will be in having enough stamina at the same time.

Tell me those things and I will believe you. Tell me those things and I will be able to play the way "I" want. Until then. you shouldn't be calling anyone ignorant.Because currently that kind of build is NOT FEASIBLE.

Oh, stop.

There is no such thing as a "Stamina Build" anyone who wants to limit their use of abilities to stubborn idiocy deserves to lose.

Lets meet in Cyrodil, I need some AP.

Damage is increased by either Stamina or Magicka. Thus, to play optimally, you need to pick one as a "main" attribute for which all/most of your damaging attacks will use as a resource.

A "stamina build" isn't arbitrarily limiting itself to use solely weapon skills, and I don't think anyone actually does that. There are plenty of supporting magicka-based skills a stamina character can use. But they're still primarily a stamina character if using weapon attacks over class skills appeals to them.

The issue here is that many other functions (stealth, break free, dodge roll, sprint) also use stamina, which unfairly taxes one attribute over another. Furthermore, most weapon abilities/attacks are not as good as magicka abilities and attacks, which is something Zenimax themselves have stated.

Gilvoth

Dreyloch wrote: »

I wanted to play a duel axe or sword wielding heavy armor badass. I'm sorry OP, but try it and tell me how well you do in PvP. Tell me how your going to mitigate the spell damage. Tell me how your going to use DW skills while still having enough stamina to dodge stuff and roll away from Bats and AE's. Tell me how you expect a DK to have enough magicka to cast things since all your effort will be in having enough stamina at the same time.

Tell me those things and I will believe you. Tell me those things and I will be able to play the way "I" want. Until then. you shouldn't be calling anyone ignorant.Because currently that kind of build is NOT FEASIBLE.

i love this post, mainly for the honesty and truthfullness but also for the fact it is all truth.

Soloeus

Maverick827 wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

I wanted to play a duel axe or sword wielding heavy armor badass. I'm sorry OP, but try it and tell me how well you do in PvP. Tell me how your going to mitigate the spell damage. Tell me how your going to use DW skills while still having enough stamina to dodge stuff and roll away from Bats and AE's. Tell me how you expect a DK to have enough magicka to cast things since all your effort will be in having enough stamina at the same time.

Tell me those things and I will believe you. Tell me those things and I will be able to play the way "I" want. Until then. you shouldn't be calling anyone ignorant.Because currently that kind of build is NOT FEASIBLE.

Oh, stop.

There is no such thing as a "Stamina Build" anyone who wants to limit their use of abilities to stubborn idiocy deserves to lose.

Lets meet in Cyrodil, I need some AP.

Damage is increased by either Stamina or Magicka. Thus, to play optimally, you need to pick one as a "main" attribute for which all/most of your damaging attacks will use as a resource.

A "stamina build" isn't arbitrarily limiting itself to use solely weapon skills, and I don't think anyone actually does that. There are plenty of supporting magicka-based skills a stamina character can use. But they're still primarily a stamina character if using weapon attacks over class skills appeals to them.

The issue here is that many other functions (stealth, break free, dodge roll, sprint) also use stamina, which unfairly taxes one attribute over another. Furthermore, most weapon abilities/attacks are not as good as magicka abilities and attacks, which is something Zenimax themselves have stated.

In other words you aren't really a "Stamina Build" you are a "Hybrid" just like every player I know who plays good. You have a strategy your abilities work to achieve, and you use whichever pool you need to.

You can pick Stamina or Magicka to cap as your Primary, and the other is your Secondary.

For players who prefer Stamina over Magicka, there are a lot of options like Snipe Venom Arrow Light Attack Weaving backed up by Nightblade Eternal Stun combo. You won't even see the actual attacks, you will just fall dead in the middle of whatever you are doing.

There are a lot of ways to make any Class/Role work. If your main gun is Stamina, don't complain later when you have to share your Spells with Block and Roll Dodge. Maybe you should try different mundus/gear sets and enchantments. Try a 5/2 suit with 5 medium/2 heavy or 5 heavy/2 medium.

Experiment. Figure out what works.

Stamina restore on Heavy Attack for all non-staff weapons. Was that patched in?

Nazon_Katts

I think this thread just proves nicely that you just cannot play as you want. The pure warrior that never deals with anything just remotely magic(ka) related is not viable. The Conan fantasy remains unfulfilled.

Another part of the problem is that some classes can very well have a skill load out that allows them to solo almost any content at relative ease and without the need to adjust any skills.

The gap in effectiveness from the worst build scenarios (which still include loved fantasy archetypes) to the best is way too big. Combined with endgame content that asks for the most effective builds to be comptetitive, even viable build do drop off the radar.

And that's due to design choices, not players' inability to adapt.