Ongoing issues in Cyrodiil - Patch 1.4.5

heyguyslol

okraus wrote: »

Dear developers and other ZOS employees,

again and again and again you make announcements in your patch notes which actually did not make it in the patch.
Correct me if i am wrong but notes like "we fixed a problem with keep doors" or "we fixed a problem which leads to crashes in cyrodiil" are nearly in every patch note you released in the recent past.
Really?! My issues with crashes in cyrodiil is worse then ever! Just to mention the "fix" of the restoration staff in the last patch notes. And i will not start with the performance problems that still exists.
There is a long list where you made an announcement but nothing was implemented in the patch or it was incomplete or it was totally wrong!

At the moment i am really angry about your announcement about pvp vendors in cyrodiil! You tell in your patch notes that you have added the missing VR14 items and bags - again (Note: you already anncounced this in your last patch notes and nothing was fixed)!

Fixed an issue where the Elite gear vendors in Cyrodiil were not selling VR13 gear, VR14 bows, or the Covenant’s Ice Staff.

I am playing on EU Server and we had the maintenance tonight. I checked the vendors in the morning and nothing absolutely nothing has changed. Where are the VR14 rings of the dominion set (10% weapon and spell critical)?
Where is the VR14 bow? Where are the VR14 bags? There is no system recognizable with pvp vendors and items. Sometimes there are VR10 versions - sometimes VR11. There is a whole bunch of VR14 items but some are missing even so there are parts of some sets in VR14 versions available. Short to say: this is a whole mess!
So i ask myself.. is the development department and QS/QA at zenimaxx this incompetent? That you announce stuff which obviously is not part of the patch? Or are you lying straight to the face of your customers?

I am not sure which option i find more irritating!

I know there are a lot more issues right now which need to be fixed. It is understandable that every player weighs the problems which directly effect him and his gameplay more then the other stuff.
Of course a player who does not play PvP does not care about the points i mentioned above. And it is understandable that i do not care about the problems with the nightblade skills and stealth because i do not play a NB. Well ok... i have
a little pity with my friends doing so and suffering of these problems for weeks and moths now.

But because PvP is my main focus i ask you directly to fix the itemization of pvp vendors as fast as possible.
Preferably with a hot fix! Personally i played a lot of pvp pre-patch to earn and save the AP to buy the new VR14 stuff just to learn that the VR14 content is incomplete and that you did not even look at pvp items when you developed the VR14 content.

I am an IT Project-Manager myself and in my current project i have a trainee for management assistance. I am sure my trainee could clean up all the mess with pvp vendors and make a complete and sound offering of pvp items in less then a day.
No, please... you see where i am heading? Implementing the correct and complete sets of pvp items for all necessary veteran levels is no magic. It is not a complex performance or crash issue with thousands of dependencies.
It is easy and straight forward - so just DO it! And do it right please - this time...

Cheers!

[Moderator Note: Adjusted title to encourage constructive conversation.

You forgot to mention how the IN-COMBAT bug is worse than ever. I'm stuck in combat 99% of the time now and can't stealth or mount but yet a nb can pop cloak and get out of combat and stealth fine. Yep this is fixed, not.

There really is no point to complaining to zos about fixing anything remotely related to pvp, why? because its not pve. Zos would rather use your $15 a month sub to fix facial animations instead of fixing pvp related issues. Oh wait they are different departments so that makes it ok. This company gets better and better by the day, what a joke.

Durham

People are leaving lost another person in my guild today he was an active pvper till this week... due pvp related issues taking way to long to adress them...

Kevinmon

It is complete and utter BULL *** that these issues are not fixed yet.

Koensol

Aenra wrote: »

- this is their first, collectively, MMO.
I could help you remember, if you were old enough at the time, how WoW, EQ1 or more recently SWTOR to name equivalents (in terms of collective prior experience) were when within their first few months of existence. Now do a comparison

(SNIP)

Yes, SWTOR had big issues at launch. But at least they fixed them A LOT faster than ZOS did. SWTOR got rid of bots in no time. Ability delay was fixed in a few weeks. And overpowered classes were toned down in a more rigid way. And more importantly, they didn't break so much stuff after every patch. At least their QA team was doing their job. Really, the SWTOR devs learned quick enough.

TehMagnus

lordrichter wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

There is always room for untested bugs that weren't discovered, it always happens, but it's not possible, when done right, to release a new version with broken things that where supposed to be fixed and appear fixed in the patch notes.

This is a bit misleading. The part that is misleading is that "done right" does not happen as often as people want it to happen. The whole premise behind QA is that things are never "done right".

As you have outlined in your note, the purpose of QA is to be inserted into places where things that are not "done right" can be identified and, if deemed necessary, corrected.

I am not here to apologize for what Zenimax is doing. I don't know what they are doing well enough to do that. I can immediately identify things that they could do to improve quality, so I do think they are doing it wrong.

That said, there are simple reasons why patch notes can be wrong and why fixes do not appear to fix things. It has nothing to do with Zenimax, specifically, and everything to do with how many development shops work.

For example:

The majority of bugs are fixed because someone identifies a specific behavior that exhibits the bug. In small shops, this is some developer, but in Zenimax I am guessing this is a QA person. Some "developer" (UI, software, animation, etc) will then take this and develop a fix that is merged into the product, verified by QA, approved, and scheduled for release. This can take days.

The catch, in the case of customer reported problems, is that the bug that QA found may not be the same bug that the customer found. It may look the same, sound the same, and act the same, but there may be more than one bug. The fix may be absolutely valid and definitely fix what QA saw, and not fix a thing from the perspective of the customer.

Devs work with tickets on collab tools such as Jira. Once a ticket is logged into Jira a dev estimates how long it will take for him to dev. The he starts feveloping, then the ticket gets tested once by the factory team, then it should be tested at least one more time (best practice is 2 more times), once in UAT and once in preproduction.

If the ticket is: "Fix Vendor not selling VR14 gear", the tester goes to Cyrodill 3x in 3 different environments and makes sure that the Vendor is selling the VR14 gear and all the gear that was required to be sold. If it's working in the last environment (preproduction) and if the preprod is configured like production (live), there are 99% chances that the fix will work in any project.

IT has nothing to do with QA, this is development testing and User Acceptance Testing. It's a linear process in the dev industry and when "done right" it doesn't let "fixed tickets" go to production unfixed which is what OP is complaining about regarding patch notes.

Rune_Relic

ozmorgudduth wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

It is odd that no one on the NA server noticed the VR14 vendor problem. At least, I do not recall seeing anyone mention it and a quick search did not reveal anything. Maybe something happened during the EU patch install?

Wrong! This NA player posted about it yesterday in addition to logging a /feedback item on it.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/133993/expand-the-jewelry-selections-for-the-pvp-gear-sets

The issue here is that the actual list of itens sold has not changed much at all apart from the items specifically listed in the latest patch notes. I logged a /bug issue on the PTS back in August on these elite vendor problems which were just fixed and about the absence of VR13 and VR14 blue mystery boxes - a problem still present in the game today.

I don't know if I have been the only player logging the issues; but I guarantee you that I have been logging bugs on the issues.

I have logged VR14 weapons wrong values on PTS back in 1.4.0.
In 1.4.4 they were still wrong.

VR14 2H sword had VR12 sword's damage, can't tell if the enchantment was correct but it was higher than VR12's version so I assume it could have been VR14 sword with VR13 or VR14 enchantment value.

Today the sword is gone, Elite Vendor has only VR13 swords left. Guess what I have bought the bugged VR14 a week ago, Nobody else can have it at the moment.

Say what you want about how the whole process is being done but it's a proper mess and it's just the values on the items. This is not a hard to track bug that requires hours of testing to be reproduced. It's clearly visible that the items are not there, and the values haven't been scaled up...

Yes scaled up, that VR13 2H sword damage value is wrong in comparison to my VR12 bought about a month ago, both swords have same damage...

Whoever is doing this hasn't got a clue what he is doing. The bug has been reported on PTS over a month ago, it has been reported on Live straight after update 4 and it's still broken, these are just some 2 digit values...

Two digit values that worked fine when max level was VR12 ?
Issue might be the fact VR13 and 14 were added and it has much further reach then people thought ?

jelliedsoup

Sometimes cannot target bow or 2 handed, skill buttons are not an option despite being in range for the skill. Luckily I can still get hit, so I can just sit there and die.

sean.plackerb14_ESO

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi, folks. First, we wanted to let you know that we have adjusted the this thread's title to foster more constructive and focused conversation. While we do understand your frustration, we do not want this thread to stray into bashing, insulting, and flaming.

That said, we want to ask you a couple of questions, @okraus, to investigate what might be happening with the vendors. First, are you making sure to head to the elite vendor in Cyrodiil? There is only one elite vendor per alliance per campaign. Also, is your character VR14?

Additionally, we are continuing our efforts to clean up performance and crashing issues in Cyrodiil. This process is ongoing and something that we are addressing incrementally with new patches. We know that it's frustrating to see performance issues, but we can assure you that we are working on this.

I know some a decent number of people are still having client crashes. I'm lucky to not have had a single client crash since 1.4.4. However what is bothering me in PVP more than anything are the server crashes. Where everyone at a really big battle gets kicked back to the character select screen, and usually a scroll winds up in a different spot when we get back in. Can you please just make a acknowledgement of the server crash/bug issues? I haven't seen a single thing from ZOS about this particular problem.

Thank you for your time.

I'm talking about the US megaserver in particular, but I would imagine the same problem happens with the EU.

Cherryblossom

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi, folks. First, we wanted to let you know that we have adjusted the this thread's title to foster more constructive and focused conversation. While we do understand your frustration, we do not want this thread to stray into bashing, insulting, and flaming.

What constructive details are you expecting other than TEST before release, come up with a plan to fix the lag and crashes in PVP. But more importantly let your community know what you are planing.

People are going to Bash and flame because the thing they want to do is not working properly.

CapuchinSeven

Aoife32001 wrote: »

I wonder to what extent these issues have to do with everyone trying to cram into Thronblade?

There is a server cap, if the game can't handle the server cap (and it's bad even when it's not capped) then it can't handle the server cap, simple as that.

Kego

There are still rumors that you can bypass the cap and enter the Campaign.

CapuchinSeven

13:00 in the afternoon, home for a lunch break, each faction 2 bars full and the server lags out and crashes.

okraus

So? Anything happening here? I provided the information that was asked for and never heard of anyone or anything?
Do we get a fix for itemization in cyrodiil soon? Or will it follow in the long list of issues being ignored?

Mondrely

Aoife32001 wrote: »

We are still lagging..
We are still having ability lag.
Crashes at least 2 times a night..
Q times due to imbalance

I wonder to what extent these issues have to do with everyone trying to cram into Thronblade? Surely that isn't the sole cause, but I have noticed that I have never experienced any of these problems in PvP, but all my PvP is on Blackwater Blade. ZoS can do more to address these issues, but players also cause a lot of these issues, I suspect. If players spread out between Thornblade and Azura's Star, I bet a lot of the above issues would be significantly mitigated.

... But I know what all of you will say to this: ZoS creates and incentivizes this problem by allowing PvP buffs to transfer outside of the home server. You're right!

Pop imbalance due to pve and pvp bonus recieved for home campaigns.

(bold text added)

This is a huge issue, but one which ZoS has already said they're going to address at least partially by restricting PvP bonuses to the home PvP campaign in an upcoming patch. Granted, they said they haven't decided yet whether or not to exclude it from PvE, but restricting it to home PvP campaigns will go a long way I think toward addressing campaign imbalances... assuming players stop trying to all cram into one server.

A lot of these problems are created by the hyper-competitive must-win players. ZoS needs to address issues on its end, but the blame for some of these problems goes both ways.

Personally, I think they should remove them from PvE too. Or at the very least make you earn a minimum number of alliance points in your home campaign before the buffs will apply in PvE. Many people set their home campaign and have never done PvP ever. Why should some people get these buffs for doing nothing?

okraus

I did not read anything in the patch notes 1.4.6 or in the PTS patch notes for Update 5 about itemization in cyrodiil.
So i draw the conclusion that this issues will not be addressed and we have just to live with it that the pvp itemization is a chaos and there is no comprehensible system for pvp vendors. No VR14 pvp bags, elite gear vendor just misses several VR14 versions of pvp set items and the "normal" vendors are selling different versions of items with different VR-levels without any consistency.

Well, if that is the case i will throw all my planning for my end-gear setup in the trash and will plan anew without any pvp equipment.
As a sorcerer with light armor at rank VR14 there is not a single set from pvp which is useful at the current state of the pvp itemization. If that was the intention then i can only congratulate: mission accomplished!
But why even bother and bring useless sets in the game?

Is it so hard and impossible to add the VR14 rings of the set, where the VR14 staffs of those sets are in the game for weeks already and can be bought at the elite gear vendor?
And besides this... is it so hard and impossible to correct the health <> magicka ratio on jewelry so that it is in line with the 1.5 ratio on all other boni (armor and weapon glyphs, attribute points, set boni)?!
This way all the jewelry with "healthy" trait on them are fare inferior to those with "arcane" trait on them.

Well, i repeat myself and i start to give up to fight against a company who is resistant to feedback and advice even if it is obviously a flaw in game design or even an error or bug!

Cheers!

ZeroTheCat

I also want to know what is happening with this. When are we getting VR14 jewellry boxes?? Are we getting them at all? ZOS, stop ignoring the pvp crowd!