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Why I am against the proposed changes to oil *WARNING - LONG*

Garion
Garion
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@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ you asked for feedback on this matter following your announcement on the ESO Live stream and so here is my feedback.

Before I begin, I would like to address the 'elephant in the room', that being the farming of noobs with oil. Yes it happens and yes, if this change is not implemented it will continue to happen. But I absolutely do not believe that warrants the change and here is why.

Firstly I want to address the point on the current ESO meta game in PvP which consists of a large amount of the so called 'bomb groups' or 'zerg balls'. These have been discussed to death on these forums and will no doubt continue to be discussed to death, and so I will not go into too much detail about how they are having a significant impact on the game. What I can say is that they are very seriously detracting from the enjoyment of the game for a large number of players and this can very clearly be seen by discussions both on this forum and in game. I have seen some dedicated and capable PvPers leave the game entirely because of this. It is undoubtedly one of the most serious problems this game faces at this current time.

In principle, I do not have a problem with this play style. I find it lacks true skill but if people choose to play that way, then so be it. However for me (and indeed others) to accept it as a valid play style in game, three key things have to be addressed:
  • Server lag and game instability (resulting from the spamming of skills over and over).
  • The AOE cap.
  • The availability of skills and play styles that can effectively counter this type of play.

It is the third point on which I will focus, as this is relevant to the 'oil' issue.

Oil is, without question, one of the most effective ways of dealing with the zergballs (and their followers) at breaches and in flag rooms. By introducing this change, you will virtually eliminate any competition over keeps and completely sideline those of us that enjoy participating in fighting that does not consist of stacking as a 'blob' and spamming fire ring, barrier and purge (plus the occasional ulti drop). A properly coordinated oil defence in a flag room (twinned with the timely drop of ultis and CC etc) can wipe a blob or at the very least put a considerable dent in their numbers, occasionally making time for reinforcements to arrive.

Without oil in its current format a decent flag defence becomes impossible. Sheer numbers will win the day simply because the vast majority of their group is immune to damage.

So ZOS my first question to you is this - why, why, WHY are you making changes that seem to strengthen the bomb groups while weakening the effectiveness of small scale PvPers? You have nerfed several other things that were useful in combating these play styles previously and there are precious few things left to us (there are skills other than oil, but I am not going to list them here because that will just encourage the QQ). Is it your intention to encourage this play style? Should we, the few of us that elect to play differently, simply give up? If this is not your intention I would be pleased if you could come out and say it, so that we can have a discussion as to what can be done to balance the game and move people away from the *ahem* skill trains.

Secondly I want to address the reasons why I believe this change has been suggested. Please do not try and tell me that oil is not being used as intended. If that were the case, they would never have been designed in the way they have been designed, and / or we would be having this discussion far sooner than we are currently. This is a knee jerk response to people complaining here on the forums and possibly in /feedback also. In respect to this, I would urge you in the strongest possible terms not to overreact to the vocal minority.

I am spending my time writing this lengthy thread not simply because I don't want this change to happen but because I am so very tired of things getting nerfed or "fixed" - and I use that word lightly - because people complain. I understand that you are trying to please people, and keep them in the game, but by now you must see that by pandering to the few you are hurting the majority. People are leaving - particularly those most vociferous PvPers - I have seen myself, from the guilds I am. PvP is a wounded beast, and your attempted cure is poison to it. I ask you to reconsider this change because I do not believe the foundations on which it is based are valid.

To be clear, I was once one of those noobs running again and again into a well established oil room with delusions of heroism. But I learned. I learned that if I run into that room, I die. So instead I sat outside and I sieged them, meatbagged them. Or I simply left them alone. The same as I simply ignore the bridge fights now (where we are outnumbered), I move away from the bomb groups who run around the walls of a keep over and over and over (it's fun, honestly!) farming players who attempt to run into them.

What's my point? My point is that you must stop responding to threads on this forum complaining about problems with nerf, after nerf. On the flip side, your automatic response to people complaining about things being under powered (NBs spring to mind...) is to buff and buff again. I can say for a certainty that in a lot of instances where your response to something is unwarranted and if you took a step back and looked at it impartially, you would see that the problem is entirely a learn to play one.

There should always be skills, abilities, items etc in the game that are difficult to deal with on first encounter. That's what makes the game enjoyable. People should encounter difficult things and sometimes this will frustrate them. But in response to that frustration they will try and figure out how to conquer it and when they do, the feeling of achievement is great. You seem to have figured this out in PvE with the introduction of Sanctum Ophidia and Arena, can you please consult with the PvE team and discuss with them their reasoning behind their approach to the new content and apply this to PvP? I recognise that when you see a lot of people complaining here you might feel inclined to do something in an attempt to make things better for them, but lets be clear - you will never make everyone happy. Don't ruin the game because some people demand the game be tailored to their own mediocre standards.

If people want to counter oil, they can. Either through the use of the equipment available to them (siege weapons) or through the skills available to them (a good healer and purge). Let them learn this rather than nerfing the game into Oblivion.

I would welcome your thoughts on the matter.

NB - I do not want this thread to derail into conversations about the merits of or problems with bomb groups. I have added the detail because it is relevant to my argument for oil. I would appreciate it if you could keep that discussion out of this thread.
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  • Phinix1
    Phinix1
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    One person spamming Efficient Purge pretty much negates the oil "problem."

    It makes you wonder how the human race survived to this point without alien intervention if they truly are that bad at adaptation.
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  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Fully agree, though my TLDR would be this paragraph
    Garion wrote: »
    Without oil in its current format a decent flag defence becomes impossible. Sheer numbers will win the day simply because the vast majority of their group is immune to damage.

    I understand what Wheeler says about oil not being used as it was envisaged. It is an extremely powerful PBAoE atm. However, I'm pretty sure he didn't envisage zerg-balling would become this game's meta either and that it would bring servers to a halt (if not crash completely them).

    You cannot address one before addressing the other. This game cannot afford a single more change that makes the zergball playstyle any more effective than it currently is.
    EU | PC | AD
  • SoulScream
    SoulScream
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    I agree just leave oil alone. There are more important things to do!!!
  • kijima
    kijima
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    ^ I feel the same way Garion.

    Oil is fine how it is, stop fixing things that ain't broke ZOS.

    There are plenty of broken things to fix, just ask your friendly neighbourhood NB, I'm sure you'll be pointed in the right direction.
    Been here since Feb 2014 - You'd think I'd be half reasonable at this game by now...

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  • Dudis
    Dudis
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    Was anyone even complaining about oil would be my question... That said I agree with the change/nerf because it was just a stupid thing to be able to do anyways IF they'd add other means to deal with blobs.

    I feel removing the AoE cap would fix all of these issues. My reasoning being that "normal" players won't be affected much since there's rarely more than 6 players stacked up anyways, unless trying to push through a choke or something. Knowing there was no cap, people would actively try to spread out too.
    The zerg blobs are the ones that would be affected since just a small group of players with enough burst could blow them all up, making this tactic no longer viable or effective.


    They'd have to cap some abilities though. Both morphs of Batswarms could be very silly if uncapped since they are hard to spot sometimes.
    AoE CC spells like the Banner synergy, DK/Sorc root etc should probably keep the cap too.
    Keep in mind that I personally wouldn't mind these being uncapped either since they are so easy to dodge anyways but the casual player might not agree.
    Edited by Dudis on September 29, 2014 12:29PM
  • r.jan_emailb16_ESO
    r.jan_emailb16_ESO
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    Totally agree. Oils are only that effective, because a) people don't pay attention, b) lags :D, c) people don't use the skills they have (shields, heals, purge/cleanse). Mostly a and c.
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  • eol
    eol
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    I totally agree with the change. The whole point of burning oil should be to pour it down on people, not pour it at your own feet. It is a breathtakingly stupid thing to have allowed in the first place, and its removal is long overdue.

    Responding to: "It makes you wonder how the human race survived to this point without alien intervention if they truly are that bad at adaptation." My hypocritical meter went to 11, reading this in a thread complaining about how people cant adapt to an ESO world without pouring burning oil on the ground around themselves??!!?? Please.

    And please don't tell me that the only mechanism to deal with aoe zergs is burning oil. Come on.

    Better to call this thread: 'Please don't make me stop farming noobs and abusing lag with burning oil, I cant adapt to a life without it!"
  • Thechemicals
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    Oil should take double damage from siege attacks and a destroyed oil pot should deliver the same damage to its user. Another diamond i just gave you.
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  • Braidas
    Braidas
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    Oil was the one thing working right (actlly there're still a couple uncapped things), *** you zos.
    Braidas - DC Breton Templar
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  • Lava_Croft
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    With the insane latency and low framerates, oiling zergballs is about all I can do while defending a keep. Having 3 frames per second and a 5 to 10 second latency doesn't leave much room to do anything else.
    Edited by Lava_Croft on September 29, 2014 2:22PM
    Xuth.
  • Agrippa_Invisus
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    Any change to oil must be accompanied by modifications to how zergball mechanics and the AOE cap work. If just the oil change goes live without any other change to existing mechanics, then Cyrodiil will become about who has the strongest, largest zerg. There will be absolutely zero ability to defend keeps (especially inner circle keeps and outposts) against a larger force.

    Unless the attackers are blazingly stupid, they will simply clear the top of the keep (preventing any oil being dropped on the nave and breaches) and then take the keep at their leisure.

    Functional immunity to AE damage will mean the most efficient way of playing is simply having the entire faction in one place, with multiple raid groups, exacerbating server lag and performance issues.

    In short, the game becomes unplayable.
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
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  • Garion
    Garion
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    eol wrote: »
    Better to call this thread: 'Please don't make me stop farming noobs and abusing lag with burning oil, I cant adapt to a life without it!"

    You are incorrect on this point. Yes I have used the oil method to farm noobs in the past and occasionally this does still happen. However, more often than not I now use oil (along with my group) to counter attacks from zergballs or huge numbers of players.These are organised players in organised groups who know how to counter oil. We use it to help us gain the advantage, given that we as a group play as no more than 8 vs huge numbers.

    I see your point about oil being poured downwards. But let's please not attempt to use the realism argument. There are plenty of things in this game that lack realism, and that argument is entirely invalid. If oil should not be allowed to be poured at one's feet, nor should a ring of fire be allowed to pop out of a character's staff and not impact the friendly players around him.
    Oil should take double damage from siege attacks and a destroyed oil pot should deliver the same damage to its user. Another diamond i just gave you.

    I would be entirely okay with this, because I can use shields and purge to keep myself up in between pouring the oil :)

    Edited by Garion on September 29, 2014 2:29PM
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  • Braidas
    Braidas
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    Any change to oil must be accompanied by modifications to how zergball mechanics and the AOE cap work. If just the oil change goes live without any other change to existing mechanics, then Cyrodiil will become about who has the strongest, largest zerg. There will be absolutely zero ability to defend keeps (especially inner circle keeps and outposts) against a larger force.

    Unless the attackers are blazingly stupid, they will simply clear the top of the keep (preventing any oil being dropped on the nave and breaches) and then take the keep at their leisure.

    Functional immunity to AE damage will mean the most efficient way of playing is simply having the entire faction in one place, with multiple raid groups, exacerbating server lag and performance issues.

    In short, the game becomes unplayable.
    Well I'm sure like 10 of us could still roll through your EP zerg but yes oil certainly help in tight spots :p
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  • Agrippa_Invisus
    Agrippa_Invisus
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    Braidas wrote: »
    Any change to oil must be accompanied by modifications to how zergball mechanics and the AOE cap work. If just the oil change goes live without any other change to existing mechanics, then Cyrodiil will become about who has the strongest, largest zerg. There will be absolutely zero ability to defend keeps (especially inner circle keeps and outposts) against a larger force.

    Unless the attackers are blazingly stupid, they will simply clear the top of the keep (preventing any oil being dropped on the nave and breaches) and then take the keep at their leisure.

    Functional immunity to AE damage will mean the most efficient way of playing is simply having the entire faction in one place, with multiple raid groups, exacerbating server lag and performance issues.

    In short, the game becomes unplayable.
    Well I'm sure like 10 of us could still roll through your EP zerg but yes oil certainly help in tight spots :p

    The EP zerg is just as brainless as the DC and AD zergs are.

    My team is usually about 12 or so, so I'm not sure we qualify for zerg status yet.
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
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  • Ghostbane
    Ghostbane
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    ZoS catering for Vamps again.

    There is nothing wrong with oils. Run with purge (which you should be doing anyway) and don't stand in red circles.

    Take away oils and keep defending just got a whole lot harder.
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  • Huntler
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    Braidas wrote: »
    Any change to oil must be accompanied by modifications to how zergball mechanics and the AOE cap work. If just the oil change goes live without any other change to existing mechanics, then Cyrodiil will become about who has the strongest, largest zerg. There will be absolutely zero ability to defend keeps (especially inner circle keeps and outposts) against a larger force.

    Unless the attackers are blazingly stupid, they will simply clear the top of the keep (preventing any oil being dropped on the nave and breaches) and then take the keep at their leisure.

    Functional immunity to AE damage will mean the most efficient way of playing is simply having the entire faction in one place, with multiple raid groups, exacerbating server lag and performance issues.

    In short, the game becomes unplayable.
    Well I'm sure like 10 of us could still roll through your EP zerg but yes oil certainly help in tight spots :p

    My team is usually about 12 or so, so I'm not sure we qualify for zerg status yet.

    Many people on this forum claim basically any team to kill them is a zerg... welcome to the club.... :|

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  • Agrippa_Invisus
    Agrippa_Invisus
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    Huntler wrote: »
    Braidas wrote: »
    Any change to oil must be accompanied by modifications to how zergball mechanics and the AOE cap work. If just the oil change goes live without any other change to existing mechanics, then Cyrodiil will become about who has the strongest, largest zerg. There will be absolutely zero ability to defend keeps (especially inner circle keeps and outposts) against a larger force.

    Unless the attackers are blazingly stupid, they will simply clear the top of the keep (preventing any oil being dropped on the nave and breaches) and then take the keep at their leisure.

    Functional immunity to AE damage will mean the most efficient way of playing is simply having the entire faction in one place, with multiple raid groups, exacerbating server lag and performance issues.

    In short, the game becomes unplayable.
    Well I'm sure like 10 of us could still roll through your EP zerg but yes oil certainly help in tight spots :p

    My team is usually about 12 or so, so I'm not sure we qualify for zerg status yet.

    Many people on this forum claim basically any team to kill them is a zerg... welcome to the club.... :|

    Is there a certification program to be a zerg?

    Do you require a license? What about special training or education?

    Inquiring minds would like to know!
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
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  • Draxys
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    + agree. Agrippa is also right- if they ignore the majority of players that know this change is not a healthy one and go through with this anyway, the change MUST be accompanied by another that changes the dynamic of zerging (such as increasing/removing the AoE cap).
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  • Garion
    Garion
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    Draxys wrote: »
    + agree. Agrippa is also right- if they ignore the majority of players that know this change is not a healthy one and go through with this anyway, the change MUST be accompanied by another that changes the dynamic of zerging (such as increasing/removing the AoE cap).

    Yes, absolutely. One of the fundamental reasons I am against this (although not the only reason) is that it will only serve to empower the zergballs and I am absolutely against anything that will bolster their viability. In my mind, announcing that they plan to nerf oil while ignoring the problem with zerg balling is essentially ZOS saying that they encourage this play style and would like to pigeon hole the majority into playing this way.

    It would be in my opinion (and I am not exaggerating my wording here) disastrous if they went through with this change without making changes aimed at altering the current meta.
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  • Agrippa_Invisus
    Agrippa_Invisus
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    Draxys wrote: »
    + agree. Agrippa is also right- if they ignore the majority of players that know this change is not a healthy one and go through with this anyway, the change MUST be accompanied by another that changes the dynamic of zerging (such as increasing/removing the AoE cap).

    Thank you.

    As it is, all factions are already starting to drop enough people on flags when attacking a keep that the game ceases to function properly. Siege bugs out, ability lag kicks in, and frequent Cyrodiil server crashes are seen.

    That's with oil in its current state. The moment the oil starts to bug and stop working is when the defense typically fails.

    Neuter oil, and it becomes worse. So much worse. There is no delaying or holding off the attackers from the flag if they so much as slot purge to get past the 3-4 oils over the breach. If they take the top of the keep, the fight is over and no defense will work unless the top can somehow be retaken before the flags flip.
    Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
    DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Ebonheart
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    Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
    For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!
  • Braidas
    Braidas
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    Braidas wrote: »
    Any change to oil must be accompanied by modifications to how zergball mechanics and the AOE cap work. If just the oil change goes live without any other change to existing mechanics, then Cyrodiil will become about who has the strongest, largest zerg. There will be absolutely zero ability to defend keeps (especially inner circle keeps and outposts) against a larger force.

    Unless the attackers are blazingly stupid, they will simply clear the top of the keep (preventing any oil being dropped on the nave and breaches) and then take the keep at their leisure.

    Functional immunity to AE damage will mean the most efficient way of playing is simply having the entire faction in one place, with multiple raid groups, exacerbating server lag and performance issues.

    In short, the game becomes unplayable.
    Well I'm sure like 10 of us could still roll through your EP zerg but yes oil certainly help in tight spots :p

    The EP zerg is just as brainless as the DC and AD zergs are.

    My team is usually about 12 or so, so I'm not sure we qualify for zerg status yet.
    I just meant like EP's zerg in general, but you guys often roll with the zerg :P
    Huntler wrote: »
    Braidas wrote: »
    Any change to oil must be accompanied by modifications to how zergball mechanics and the AOE cap work. If just the oil change goes live without any other change to existing mechanics, then Cyrodiil will become about who has the strongest, largest zerg. There will be absolutely zero ability to defend keeps (especially inner circle keeps and outposts) against a larger force.

    Unless the attackers are blazingly stupid, they will simply clear the top of the keep (preventing any oil being dropped on the nave and breaches) and then take the keep at their leisure.

    Functional immunity to AE damage will mean the most efficient way of playing is simply having the entire faction in one place, with multiple raid groups, exacerbating server lag and performance issues.

    In short, the game becomes unplayable.
    Well I'm sure like 10 of us could still roll through your EP zerg but yes oil certainly help in tight spots :p

    My team is usually about 12 or so, so I'm not sure we qualify for zerg status yet.

    Many people on this forum claim basically any team to kill them is a zerg... welcome to the club.... :|
    Estoy Aqui
    Edited by Braidas on September 29, 2014 4:21PM
    Braidas - DC Breton Templar
    No Mercy
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  • Kosar
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    hahahah to the guy who said this oil change is a "knee jerk reaction"... it took SIX MONTHS to jerk that knee buddy. people left this game in droves over the oil issues for the first 2 months because it destroyed the idea of how PvP should look and feel. literally oil is a day 1 complaint.

    the problem now is kind of how Agrippa points it out. those of us who DID stay through the oil have learned to play around (and in) it. we stopped griping for this change because it is the counter to certain zerg/stacking tactics.

    but sorry, Agrippa, you are wrong on this one. look at ADs skele guild (sorry idk your name). they have a very specific set of tactics. every time they engage, there are one or two guys whose sole job is dropping oils in open field engagements. inside towers while taking/defending flags the huddle in uber tiny corners on their oil. the situation described is that oil is supposed to be countering these types of grouping tactics, yet they are more effectively implementing it than anyone else. lately we have managed to maybe split wins/losses with them, but they have become to attuned to the engagement process, they have the leg up every time. i'm not saying it's bad or good either way--it's simply what is happening.

    (if you look at any uncoordinated zerg in open field, they spread out because it's what uncoordination does. you can't place enough oils to counter any 100 man zerg in open field or even inside towers because people that are not in one large guilded group are never going to listen closely enough to anyone to stack up and be countered by ground oil.)

    the 2nd component of this countering though was blazing shield. oil was for countering numbers, while blazing shield was used to counter fire ring/pulsar spam. if anyone like that 1st comment really wants to talk about knee jerk reactions, why was blazing shield changed so fast and yet we have gotten NO answer on fire ring? if blazing was gonna get "fixed" then this should have happened at the same time as fire ring or at very least the same time as oil. imbalance was just restored today.
  • WarrioroftheWind_ESO
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    I don't read the proposed changes as being innovative, I read them as rewarding stupid and encouraging stupid. Oil needs no changes except perhaps a BUFF in damage as they do minimal damage to a skilled group. Personally I have never seen an instance where oiling up doors yields victory, because most of the time the enemy group will either take minimal damage or charge through and butcher us from behind while we are trying to dump oil.

    I've even had situations where we attempt to set up oil ambushes only to be thwarted by well-placed siege on the outside that hamper or eliminate our efforts to place defenses. All it takes to counter oil is intelligent positioning and maneuvering. No hotfix can patch stupid.
  • darkdruidssb14_ESO
    darkdruidssb14_ESO
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    I like the oil change because placing oil on the ground to PBAOE flags is stupid. I understand that players did it to counter zergballs, but there needs another way than relying on oil which wasn't really extremely successful anyway.

    I say it wasn't that successful because organized zergs can coordinate Barrier ultimates and spam Efficient Purge negating the placed oil anyway.

    Personally I don't know how they can really fix the zergball issue. Especially the coordinated zergball issue.

    Everyone screams about increasing AOE caps.. but they don't realize that they are asking for a double-edged sword. If you increase AOE caps you increase them for everyone... that zergball is going to be able to throw out more AOE than a small force could dish out. Who cares if your AOE goes from hitting 6 people to 50 people... they can cast the same AOEs ....and they don't need to hit 50 players per cast to kill a smaller force as it is already. I would love to hear how exactly unlimited or increased AOE caps will magically fix zergballs.

    As long as you can still stack damage shields then AOEs aren't going to matter like they should. Damage shields need to have a priority system of whichever is the strongest overwriting anything else. That will reduce the overall effectiveness of damage shields making people more vulnerable to siege and AOEs in general. This should include mist forms as well.. if you have a damage shield on and enter mist form it needs to overwrite the damage shield.. meaning you get mist form damage reduction or a damage shield.. you can't run both. Barrier needs to have the highest priority and it should overwrite any other damage shield. This way you can still coordinate Barriers, but time between Barriers can leave your vulnerable.
  • tplink3r1
    tplink3r1
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    nerf.
    Edited by tplink3r1 on September 29, 2014 5:41PM
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
  • Raeder
    Raeder
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    tplink3r1 wrote: »

    nerf.

    Ummm... ignore the tower... is that so hard? I always ignore those tower groups... let them come out later and deal with them... I even saw one of our AD guilds wait not 5 minutes in stealth outside of a camped tower for them to leave and then crushed them.

    Until the zergball issue is addressed, oil is the only thing that can counter those groups. So this a knewjerk reaction to something that serious PvPers can deal with.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    I like the oil change because placing oil on the ground to PBAOE flags is stupid. I understand that players did it to counter zergballs, but there needs another way than relying on oil which wasn't really extremely successful anyway.

    I say it wasn't that successful because organized zergs can coordinate Barrier ultimates and spam Efficient Purge negating the placed oil anyway.

    Personally I don't know how they can really fix the zergball issue. Especially the coordinated zergball issue.

    Everyone screams about increasing AOE caps.. but they don't realize that they are asking for a double-edged sword. If you increase AOE caps you increase them for everyone... that zergball is going to be able to throw out more AOE than a small force could dish out. Who cares if your AOE goes from hitting 6 people to 50 people... they can cast the same AOEs ....and they don't need to hit 50 players per cast to kill a smaller force as it is already. I would love to hear how exactly unlimited or increased AOE caps will magically fix zergballs.

    As long as you can still stack damage shields then AOEs aren't going to matter like they should. Damage shields need to have a priority system of whichever is the strongest overwriting anything else. That will reduce the overall effectiveness of damage shields making people more vulnerable to siege and AOEs in general. This should include mist forms as well.. if you have a damage shield on and enter mist form it needs to overwrite the damage shield.. meaning you get mist form damage reduction or a damage shield.. you can't run both. Barrier needs to have the highest priority and it should overwrite any other damage shield. This way you can still coordinate Barriers, but time between Barriers can leave your vulnerable.

    No offence, but I think you got the bolded part horribly wrong.

    If 6 people fight versus 12, all of the 6 people get hit by all the AoEs from 12 people. That's how it currently is. If you run in a small group (<10) and you run into a full raid (20+) you already take full damage. The AoE cap removal will make almost 0 difference, certainly nothing noticeable.

    This is about balancing the field and about fairness. If I'm standing next to you and you can deal dmg to me, then I should be able to deal damage to you. You shouldn't arbitrarily be able to avoid my damage because you have 10 people next to you, damaging me all the while.
    EU | PC | AD
  • tplink3r1
    tplink3r1
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    Raeder wrote: »
    tplink3r1 wrote: »

    nerf.

    Ummm... ignore the tower... is that so hard? I always ignore those tower groups... let them come out later and deal with them... I even saw one of our AD guilds wait not 5 minutes in stealth outside of a camped tower for them to leave and then crushed them.

    Until the zergball issue is addressed, oil is the only thing that can counter those groups. So this a knewjerk reaction to something that serious PvPers can deal with.
    ignore? if we leave they capture the resource.
    wait until they leave? im sure no one wants to wait until they leave the tower.
    Edited by tplink3r1 on September 29, 2014 5:49PM
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
  • phreatophile
    phreatophile
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    Dudis wrote: »
    I feel removing the AoE cap would fix all of these issues. My reasoning being that "normal" players won't be affected much since there's rarely more than 6 players stacked up anyways, unless trying to push through a choke or something. Knowing there was no cap, people would actively try to spread out too.
    The zerg blobs are the ones that would be affected since just a small group of players with enough burst could blow them all up, making this tactic no longer viable or effective.


    They'd have to cap some abilities though. Both morphs of Batswarms could be very silly if uncapped since they are hard to spot sometimes.
    AoE CC spells like the Banner synergy, DK/Sorc root etc should probably keep the cap too.
    Keep in mind that I personally wouldn't mind these being uncapped either since they are so easy to dodge anyways but the casual player might not agree.

    I still think they should remove the AOE caps on everything and add in friendly fire. It's ridiculous to be able to stand in the middle of an inferno if that pale elf or cat over there cast it but not if that grey elf or lizard over here cast it. Would deal with the OP nature of casters as well. If you turn half your side into BBQ you won't be all that welcome on the wall.

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