Remove forward camps from the game

c0rp

Remove FCs from the game and maybe Cyrodiil will become half-playable.

There is no logical argument that FCs improve the gameplay in Cyrodiil. Everything they are- promotes negatives. Promotes zerging, suicide ressing, and nullifying transit. There is no penalty for dying thanks to FCs.

Remove them from the game @zos_BrianWheeler before everyone quits PVP.

Samadhi

Remember when mercenaries were taken out due to screwing up the game.

Was nice.

Xsorus

yeap..they need to flat out remove the camps

*edit*

At the same time, they need to buff wall HP by a metric ton.

MustyBritches

Completely agree! Camps add NOTHING to the game and remove several favorable game niches from the game... Spread the zergs out! do away with camp spamming!

dcincali

Samadhi wrote: »

Remember when mercenaries were taken out due to screwing up the game.

Was nice.

Yea, now they are being sold for 10k on the broker cause all they did was remove the vendor. All the players who had them still do and can still bug them out and make infinite mercs which was the issue. Problem solved? No, not hardly. Bandaid on a festering wound? Yes.

Samadhi

dcincali wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Remember when mercenaries were taken out due to screwing up the game.

Was nice.

Yea, now they are being sold for 10k on the broker cause all they did was remove the vendor. All the players who had them still do and can still bug them out and make infinite mercs which was the issue. Problem solved? No, not hardly. Bandaid on a festering wound? Yes.

Can agree that it would have been beneficial to take it a step further and completely remove them from inventories as well.
However, rarely even see them at sieges anymore at all. Consider this a significant improvement over 20 of them endlessly fighting at every keep.

Komma

I agree. Taking them out would make the pvp a lot better. Would add different play styles to cyrodiil that aren't possible like blocking supply lines or surprise attacks. Would spread people out and help reduce the lag from everyone being at every fight. Add more skill to the game by getting rid of the camps and buffing keep walls. Just do it please! @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

GunemCleric

Agree, remove forward camps

Nidwin

Nope.

Don't touch them
They're fine as they do promote some heavy keep siege and helps a lot with keeping keep defenses alive.

Komma

Why not have a special server with no camps. One with camps. One without. One non vet. Rest are a waste.

Nidwin

Komma wrote: »

Why not have a special server with no camps. One with camps. One without. One non vet. Rest are a waste.

Server with no camps will only be filled by the ganking boys-bands, the ones crying to get them removed here on the forums. You know, those impulse bat spamming boys-bands everyone's talking about.

Remove FC's without a playable and enjoyable way to play zerg keep siege and even Thornblade will become a Ghost town.

Let's be real all.
DaoC's Mordred wasn't killed by RvRers but by it's own PvPers.

c0rp

Nidwin wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Why not have a special server with no camps. One with camps. One without. One non vet. Rest are a waste.

Server with no camps will only be filled by the ganking boys-bands, the ones crying to get them removed here on the forums. You know, those impulse bat spamming boys-bands everyone's talking about.

Oh please, what kind of baseless comment is that? The people who want the camps removed are the people who understand the original vision of what Cyrodiil was supposed to be. A NON-AoE cap-protected-zerg ball battleground where supply/transit/resources and dying actually MATTERED.

FCs have turned Cyrodiil into Call of Duty. And that is *** said if you ask me.

Nidwin

c0rp wrote: »

Nidwin wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Why not have a special server with no camps. One with camps. One without. One non vet. Rest are a waste.

Server with no camps will only be filled by the ganking boys-bands, the ones crying to get them removed here on the forums. You know, those impulse bat spamming boys-bands everyone's talking about.

Oh please, what kind of baseless comment is that? The people who want the camps removed are the people who understand the original vision of what Cyrodiil was supposed to be. A NON-AoE cap-protected-zerg ball battleground where supply/transit/resources and dying actually MATTERED.

FCs have turned Cyrodiil into Call of Duty. And that is *** said if you ask me.

Baseless?

Show me where ZOS has stated that freaking LIE you're trying to push up here?

A NON-AoE cap-protected-zerg ball battleground

Please c'mon. Be a big boy. Links from ZOS people stating this nonsense of yours!

The only non AOE caps where bugs that got mostly fixed.
AOE caps have always be 6 targets max if not it's been stated in the tooltip.

c0rp

Nidwin wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

Nidwin wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Why not have a special server with no camps. One with camps. One without. One non vet. Rest are a waste.

Server with no camps will only be filled by the ganking boys-bands, the ones crying to get them removed here on the forums. You know, those impulse bat spamming boys-bands everyone's talking about.

Oh please, what kind of baseless comment is that? The people who want the camps removed are the people who understand the original vision of what Cyrodiil was supposed to be. A NON-AoE cap-protected-zerg ball battleground where supply/transit/resources and dying actually MATTERED.

FCs have turned Cyrodiil into Call of Duty. And that is *** said if you ask me.

Baseless?

Show me where ZOS has stated that freaking LIE you're trying to push up here?

A NON-AoE cap-protected-zerg ball battleground

Please c'mon. Be a big boy. Links from ZOS people stating this nonsense of yours!

The only non AOE caps where bugs that got mostly fixed.
AOE caps have always be 6 targets max if not it's been stated in the tooltip.

You are completely missing the point, but ok.

Dudis

Nidwin wrote: »

[...]

Do you at least agree that dying should matter? Or winning a fight?

Because neither of them does with the current implementation of FCs.

Abagaile

Totally in agreement. Remove Forward Camps or at least give us the option to play a campaign without them.

Forward camps cause load in latency.

They remove any reason to have travel paths/resources.

They nullify any sort of penalty for death within PVP.

They promote suicide travel.

For all intents, forward camps, although a good idea in theory, have totally destroyed any sort of meaningful tactic within PVP aside from zerging...

Nidwin

Dudis wrote: »

Nidwin wrote: »

[...]

Do you at least agree that dying should matter? Or winning a fight?

Because neither of them does with the current implementation of FCs.

It depends what you mean with matters.

If that "matters" of yours is going to bore or annoy the hell out of me than I disagree with you. It's just a matter of why you and me play.

I don't give a damn about winning fights, leaderboards, goodies at the end of the 30 days or whatever. The only thing that I care about is the fight, itself. Winning or losing, doesn't matter as long as it was intense, long and it gives me the feeling, worth my time.

I also prefer quantity, lot's of constant fights at anytime, anyplace, any situation and those FC's promote this kind of action.

What some peeps call Zerg ball at keeps is what I call intense lasting keep siege. If by removing FC's and having me again Horse Racing 70% of me time to get stomped by AD numbers in less than 5 mins without a real way to make a decent stand, I can tell you it's going to be without me, till CU.

Komma

Nidwin wrote: »

Komma wrote: »

Why not have a special server with no camps. One with camps. One without. One non vet. Rest are a waste.

Server with no camps will only be filled by the ganking boys-bands, the ones crying to get them removed here on the forums. You know, those impulse bat spamming boys-bands everyone's talking about.

Remove FC's without a playable and enjoyable way to play zerg keep siege and even Thornblade will become a Ghost town.

Let's be real all.
DaoC's Mordred wasn't killed by RvRers but by it's own PvPers.

If the only people who would play on a non forward camp campaign are the people you can't stand then what do you care? You should be helping promote this.

Zorgon_The_Revenged

I can't make my mind up.

I've recently been doing a bit of solo (with the general populous but not with guild members) playing in Cyrodiil. I made my own rules about rezzing at a forward camp "I won't unless I think it's beneficial to the group I was fighting with" because I know how annoying it is to put down an FC for your own group only to watch a load of randoms appear out of it (half of them being something daft like lvl14's). "If I do rezz at someone elses FC I wait to see if it disappears after a couple of players have also rezzed, if it does I put one of my own down (I'll then rezz at it again if it's still there)".

Anyway, this often meant I had to rezz at somewhere else other than an FC and found I enjoyed myself more not less.

I don't think they should be removed but like a few things in PvP they need to be looked at (after the constant "ESO has stopped working" messages etc...), maybe add a rezz timer so instant rezzing wasn't possible.

eol

I would have no problem if tents were removed. Or at the very least, if you could only be reborn at the closest camp, thus removing 'teleport across the map' after dying at 'suicide resources'.

Komma

eol wrote: »

I would have no problem if tents were removed. Or at the very least, if you could only be reborn at the closest camp, thus removing 'teleport across the map' after dying at 'suicide resources'.

Brian said that idea was too much work. I think most would agree that the rez radius idea is the best but since the guy running the show has pretty much ruled that out then the next best idea isn't leaving them how they are.

Dudis

I don't see how it could increase the servers workload too much though...

All you need is a working coordinate system, which they have (how else would the map work?) and some simple computing using Pythagoras theorem to determine the distance from FC.

jkirchner71ub17_ESO2

Yes something needs to change ASAP. I'm all for removing them from Cyrodiil but many are opposed to this and it is unlikely Zos would even consider it. The radius idea seems to be the most plausible but it sounds like this is too much for work for them to tackle . Then we have the idea of making them very expensive and this seems like a nice "band aid" for the problem at hand. Sure the newer players who haven't accrued a lot of AP won't be able to afford them for a while but there will always be rez options for them to utilize. This would also increase the importance of "battlefield rezzing" our fellow players. I for one try to rez every fallen player I can without placing myself at risk and in some cases I still risk it as the payoff is far greater than the risk. Also would like to see them BOUND to prevent them form being mailed to other players within or outside the alliance. I saw ideas about making them only purchasable by higher ranked players but not sure this is the right approach. Regardless there has to be a better way and until they find one remove FCs.

GunemCleric

Forward camps favor the zergballs and the large groups, which an alliance owned map also favors. there is no way to cut the supply lines of the hordes with FC.

When a small force of 20 starts to make a push a force of 30-40 or more show up instantly and repeatedly, there is no way to get a foothold in a alliance owned server. There is little reward for fighting once an Alliance has taken a server and everything is stacked against us. My guild does it for fun, but it gets frustrating when 2x-3x our numbers inexplicably show up.

If all buffs were removed then it would be PvPers playing for the sake of playing and probably a lot less of the Zergball, no-skill trial guilds running around killing players like trash mobs with puslar/fire ring/heals/aoe spam for their buffs.

Personally i now think ALL alliance war buffs should be removed including the emp skill line (Emp with 2 healers should not be able to retake a keep), but I cannot see ZOS doing anything that helps the game that would anger the larger guilds.

Removing AOE caps is not an answer, think of an Emp (like the one that took a keep with 2 healers) spamming fire ring (as the one who took the keep with 2 healers did)...he/she would be able to kill 90% of a force by themselves (i can image the QQ from sorcs and NBs when an Emp one-shots them constantly)

Giraffon

What if forward camps were never "used up" but they cost like 50,000 AP? Wouldn't that be interesting? They only way to get rid of them is if the enemy destroys them.

Sallington

FC's wouldn't be as much of a problem if only people in range could spawn at them. "Blood porting" is what needs to go away.

c0rp

Sallington wrote: »

FC's wouldn't be as much of a problem if only people in range could spawn at them. "Blood porting" is what needs to go away.

Wheeler stated that isnt gonna happen. Its too much work.

Artis

Nidwin wrote: »

Nope.

Don't touch them
They're fine as they do promote some heavy keep siege and helps a lot with keeping keep defenses alive.

Very much this^

Did you forget beta events? You really want keeps to change owners every 15 mins?

Krinaman

Removing tents will result in a far worse game. It will make zerging worse not better.

Large groups will simply ride behind the lines and 50/50 keeps with ease.

Meanwhile most of the players will end up playing the spawn point cha cha. Where one side pushes towards the others spawn point but it takes longer and longer to get back in the fight. So then the side closer to the spawn has the advantage so they push back. With even populations this just be Zerg on zerg for hours on end.

Krinaman

Removing tents will result in a far worse game. It will make zerging worse not better.

Large groups will simply ride behind the lines and 50/50 keeps with ease.

Meanwhile most of the players will end up playing the spawn point cha cha. Where one side pushes towards the others spawn point but it takes longer and longer to get back in the fight. So then the side closer to the spawn has the advantage so they push back. With even populations this just be Zerg on zerg for hours on end.

c0rp

Krinaman wrote: »

Removing tents will result in a far worse game. It will make zerging worse not better.

Large groups will simply ride behind the lines and 50/50 keeps with ease.

Meanwhile most of the players will end up playing the spawn point cha cha. Where one side pushes towards the others spawn point but it takes longer and longer to get back in the fight. So then the side closer to the spawn has the advantage so they push back. With even populations this just be Zerg on zerg for hours on end.

Preventing a hundred people from instantly appearing at a keep at any location of the map at any time is in no way, shape, or form "making zerging worse not better".

Allowing people to respawn instantly 20 meters from where they just died over and over and over does indeed "make zerging worse not better".