What are sorcerers meant to do?

Malveria

Honestly, I am so tired of seeing my favourite class nerfed because people are sad we can get away from them. Enough with people crying about Streak please. We have a 50% magika cost increase and a 50% magika regen reduction. Just because a few sorcerers can get away doesn't mean they all can. We are a class that relies on position, mobility, and CC, and we are rapidly losing all of that. I am at a loss as to how to even play my class with any effectiveness. My pool of resources is rapidly diminishing.

In combat, we have very little capacity to put out large amounts of damage, especially on more than one target. Our one large-scale damaging ulti, Atronach, takes forever to build because we have next to no class-based ulti generating abilities. Crit Surge reduces the distance we can fight from, and the spells that we can use, and strips our ability to use weapons (which is now where most of our damage comes from). Negate? Is totally counterable and it can be moved out of.

Mage's wrath? Does minimal damage until you get your opponent to 20% health, and that's next to impossible without help. And not just a group of friends. Just someone else to do the damage a sorc cannot. Crystal frag is not spammable. It has a cast time or (if proccing) a visual warning. It's dodgeable, and it doesn't always do a great deal of damage.

DK's have one ability, (reflect) that IS spammable, that renders all but one of our attacks (curse) ineffective against them. And only one curse can be active per sorcerer, and it has a detonation time so it can be purged or purified off, making it a useless cost of magika.

Templars have class-based heals on a massive scale that means we cannot do the damage to them needed to kill them, not to mention a high DPS output meaning that outlasting a Templar in combat (by resource management) is nearly impossible.

Nightblades kill us quickly because we have to sacrifice protection for combat effectiveness and magika regen. The CC and damage they inflict on a single target is phenomenal.

And don't let the response be 'get more skill'. I can play my class. But if there's only one way to play a class, how does that require skill? When there are multiple ways to play the other classes, and we're left with an easily-filled five slot bar because we just have no other abilities, how is that skill?

I thought this was a game where people could branch out, find numerous ways to play. Nightblades are good tanks and healers and DPS, all three roles. Templars are good tanks and healers and Dps. DKs are good tanks and DPS. Sorceres have the potential to be tanky, but no capacity for high damage output. And our only class-based heal is a time-consuming channel.

We are aoe capped in everything we can do. We're struggling to survive. We are struggling to kill people. We're struggling to be effective in large-scale combat. I want to help my faction. I want to fight and have fun. Die and kill. But some of the best theory crafters and sorcerers I know are now scraping the bottom of the barrel to be effective in combat.

Why does this class even exist?

I am not whining. I'm desperate here. Someone please help me. Is there something I don't know? Is there something I'm missing?

What am I meant to be able to do?

Especially in PVP.

VoteHaelga

It's really sad to watch a supposedly legitimate gaming company, basically spit in the face of their player base. But that seems to be the route that has been chosen. Instead of making sound formulated decisions, it's becoming increasingly obvious that they are trying to apply the duct tape approach to fixing serious issues.

New content keeps getting pushed out and piled onto old issues that were never truly fixed in the first place. Classes have been nerfed, while others have been buffed, leading to even more unbalance across the board. I mean, it took six months to fix postern doors because it was more important to change interior lighting and add new content?

My biggest question though is do the ones in charge of this company even care one iota about their player base? You seem to listen to a vocal minority like you're still in high school. When you attempt to please the vocal minority only, you're running the risk of alienating the majority of people who PAY YOU for a service that they are increasingly starting to despise.

So what is it ZOS, what's the issue you're having so much trouble with, why is it that you seem to have such a blatant lack of empathy? I know you must not care about your Net worth, because no company that did, would in their right mind, alienate so many of their customers. Is it your way or the highway? Are yo unwilling to admit you are wrong? Enlighten us please because no one seems to understand what you're doing, or the way you prioritize issues.

Nothing makes sense.

dcincali

You guys at ZOS have to understand as paying customers with the amount of pure garbage we have been threw as a pvp community, issue after issue after issue only to have them all sugar coated and passed off as "fixed" adding on the pure and complete lack of communication to find out, hey @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ is going to be on twitch and hope and pray the pvp in this game is going on in the right direction, he will give us the light, he will show us the way and instead we get *** on. Thank you for your money, 15 dollars please go **** yourself. We're a bit, how you say.... Displeased with the service you are providing.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

You need nerfing more, i think in .6 sorc might see the back end of a few axes and charge spam, see how you like that! Mwaahahhahahaha

Malveria

And this is who Zenimax listens to.

Bipolo

Hardened Ward > Harness Magicka > Healing Ward + Immovable

Rejoice,
especially melee based characters are going to burn through most of their stamina and magicka on gap closer's and desperately trying to get through the shield stacking.

Resource management? All class abilities will fuel your magicka regen and no need to block 100% with Immovable > Streak to buy some time for stamina regen to keep Immovable up.

Did i also mention its possible to Bolt Escape out of roots? No need to waste stamina on dodge rolls... So no need to worry, lol

What have i done? oh noes...

Khivas_Carrick

Templars have a high dps output. Hilarious. We rock in pvp but I still can't stop myself from cringing every time I see a Sorc complain about their class and other classes being UP/OP.

I suppose Sorc's need bigger booms to kill with, because while a NB has to use one of two weapons from stealth and a very specific set of gear and skills for those quick kills and a Templar legit has to work for it, a Sorc and DK can take you on straight up and pwn you after toying with you first lol sorry if I'm speaking out of turn here

Epsilon_Echo

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Templars have a high dps output. Hilarious. We rock in pvp but I still can't stop myself from cringing every time I see a Sorc complain about their class and other classes being UP/OP.

I suppose Sorc's need bigger booms to kill with, because while a NB has to use one of two weapons from stealth and a very specific set of gear and skills for those quick kills and a Templar legit has to work for it, a Sorc and DK can take you on straight up and pwn you after toying with you first lol sorry if I'm speaking out of turn here

Whoa whoa whoa logic bro you're using it too much.

@Malveria‌ Ignore the fact that your class has some of the highest damage output and can outlast most any dps people throw at it and yeah I can see your point. Now remember those things and ask what are you really asking for? As a sorc with the armor setup and bow or 2have if you prefer melee you can get way bigger out of stealth crits than any nightblade could. As for magicka abilities do light attacks from overload get reflected by scales? I think *** for tat overload is the best single dps ability. Sure it's an ult but it's spam able and you can use another if you don't run it too far down

Khivas_Carrick

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Templars have a high dps output. Hilarious. We rock in pvp but I still can't stop myself from cringing every time I see a Sorc complain about their class and other classes being UP/OP.

I suppose Sorc's need bigger booms to kill with, because while a NB has to use one of two weapons from stealth and a very specific set of gear and skills for those quick kills and a Templar legit has to work for it, a Sorc and DK can take you on straight up and pwn you after toying with you first lol sorry if I'm speaking out of turn here

Whoa whoa whoa logic bro you're using it too much.

@Malveria‌ Ignore the fact that your class has some of the highest damage output and can outlast most any dps people throw at it and yeah I can see your point. Now remember those things and ask what are you really asking for? As a sorc with the armor setup and bow or 2have if you prefer melee you can get way bigger out of stealth crits than any nightblade could. As for magicka abilities do light attacks from overload get reflected by scales? I think *** for tat overload is the best single dps ability. Sure it's an ult but it's spam able and you can use another if you don't run it too far down

Sorry man, my sarcasm and logic often mix, and I speak only in sarcasm.

Malveria

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

@Malveria‌ Ignore the fact that your class has some of the highest damage output and can outlast most any dps people throw at it and yeah I can see your point. Now remember those things and ask what are you really asking for? As a sorc with the armor setup and bow or 2have if you prefer melee you can get way bigger out of stealth crits than any nightblade could. As for magicka abilities do light attacks from overload get reflected by scales? I think *** for tat overload is the best single dps ability. Sure it's an ult but it's spam able and you can use another if you don't run it too far down

I'm talking about class-based abilities. Things that are sorcerer specific, and not accessible by other classes. If Overload is your only counter, plus weapons (which I mentioned) or armour, then again we fall short. And Overload can be reflected by Reflect, and it can crit a sorcerer when it doesn't crit the DK.

What I'm talking about is the capacity for variety. Single-target people who build for single target is all well and good, or theory crafters who squeeze every bit they can out of it. But what about people who want to run in groups, or people who want to dive into zergs? Our AOE capacity is extremely limited, our distance-creating abilities are limited, and our CC is limited. And we're a class that relies on the latter, but we're crippled because of whiners.

I'm not saying that we're underpowered. I'm just saying that compared to the other classes, we're struggling. And no, I am not of the belief that any class should be able to beat any class. But I am of the belief that this game shouldn't carry nightblades who want to be unstoppable killing machines from stealth.

WraithAzraiel

I don't see any other classes having a class based passive that gives them a sweeping 15% Ultimate cost reduction.

Tack that onto the spamming of Impulse and other attacks (1 button win playstyles, I'm talking to you) and the ultimate gained from dropping handfuls of players at a time in Cyrodiil, throw in Vampire and one of the cheapest and most efficient Ultimate that not only damages but heals and allows the use of other attacks throughout it's duration and you have a recipe for a GLARINGLY broken build.

You constantly hear the cry of "Nerf Vampire - it r 2 OP dur dur dur" when the real problem is broken builds and their exploitation of poor skill balancing.

- Sure this can be solved by changing Bat Swarm and it's morphs to ignore all reductions to Ultimate costs. That would work and allow Sorc to remain nerf free, but how long until another Ultimate and skill line takes it's place?

Because of this, Sorceror as a class has become Flavor of the Month, 3 months running.

Add that in with the astonishing fact that light armor + sticks > everything and you have everything that's wrong with the game's balance all in one happy package.


I love playing my sorc. I love playing my Nightblade Vampire.

I don't want straight up communist-esque class equality. I want each class to have strengths and weaknesses that balance each other out.

I want there to be more options for success than the pigeon hole that is skirt and stick supremacy.

Mendoze

I agree with the OP to a certain degree, except IMO we still do well in big battles, where we don't get targeted by melee so often. In those, or as castle defenders, we can use ranged attacks and actually be in relative safety ourselves. I have no problems with melee destroying us at melee range, but since they can close the gap immediately and are invulnerable while ranged, that leaves us quite toothless against certain classes who use their capabilities. It certainly doesn't help that we are the only class who lacks a PVP self heal, but maybe some day we can heal again.

Fortunately ESO is evolving constantly, and places in the food chain change one class at the time ( except #1 ). At launch it was DKs and us, while Templars and Nightblades were struggling. Now after series of buffs and fixes for Templars and nerfs for Sorcerers, we currently have DKs and OPlars rule supreme. Nightblades are obviously next in line, since their buffing is already going on, so Templars are just waiting for the nerf hammer. After Nightblades it should be our turn again, so then we are back in square one, where DKs and Sorcerers can steamroll again. Just be patient young padawan, our time will come again

Khivas_Carrick

Only in PvP do Templars do good. Literally everyone else can roll however they want while as a Templar dps people constantly ask me to heal.

Also struggling? Lmao oh man that's cute.

Artis

Open leaderboards->Challenges->Dragonstar Arena.

See, that sorcs are needed. Now count nightblades there. YOu shouldn't be the one complaining, really.

Soris

Bipolo wrote: »

Hardened Ward > Harness Magicka > Healing Ward + Immovable

Rejoice,
especially melee based characters are going to burn through most of their stamina and magicka on gap closer's and desperately trying to get through the shield stacking.

Resource management? All class abilities will fuel your magicka regen and no need to block 100% with Immovable > Streak to buy some time for stamina regen to keep Immovable up.

Did i also mention its possible to Bolt Escape out of roots? No need to waste stamina on dodge rolls... So no need to worry, lol

What have i done? oh noes...

^Delete this post please immediately!

Back to seriousness, this type of sorcs are my nightmare in game. It's super op tanky even more than most DKs and templars due to the multiple shield stacking. Most of my duels with a sorc end with draw after 20 min fight if I can manage to stay alive from their op burst and cc.

I cant efficiently break those multiple shields as a templar. The moment when I finally manage to break those shields and finally able to touch their skin, they just warp 20 meters away and quickly re-stack shields while I break free and charge in again. Rinse and repeat...

So dont make me mad while you claim sorcs lack of defence and burst. They are beast in 1v1 and small scale if playing proper. Also they do well in zergy situations with certain skills and ultimates. L2p I say.

Mendoze

faernaa wrote: »

Bipolo wrote: »

Hardened Ward > Harness Magicka > Healing Ward + Immovable

Rejoice,
especially melee based characters are going to burn through most of their stamina and magicka on gap closer's and desperately trying to get through the shield stacking.

Resource management? All class abilities will fuel your magicka regen and no need to block 100% with Immovable > Streak to buy some time for stamina regen to keep Immovable up.

Did i also mention its possible to Bolt Escape out of roots? No need to waste stamina on dodge rolls... So no need to worry, lol

What have i done? oh noes...

^Delete this post please immediately!

Back to seriousness, this type of sorcs are my nightmare in game. It's super op tanky even more than most DKs and templars due to the multiple shield stacking. Most of my duels with a sorc end with draw after 20 min fight if I can manage to stay alive from their op burst and cc.

I cant efficiently break those multiple shields as a templar. The moment when I finally manage to break those shields and finally able to touch their skin, they just warp 20 meters away and quickly re-stack shields while I break free and charge in again. Rinse and repeat...

So dont make me mad while you claim sorcs lack of defence and burst. They are beast in 1v1 and small scale if playing proper. Also they do well in zergy situations with certain skills and ultimates. L2p I say.

What on earth are you talking about? DKs and Templars have class shields too, although Templars shield lasts shorter amount of time, but in exchange it does damage when it expires. DK shield is better in every possible way than Sorcerer shield, and still somehow Sorcerer tanks better than DK in your world? I could understand comment like that from a Nightblade who has no class shield, but from a Templar with skills like Blazing Shield and Total Dark to reflect anything Sorcerer can do that's too rich. And L2P after post like that, huh? Can I have what you've been smoking?

Soris

Read my post again.
Firstly, I didnt compare shields in game. I just point out that sorcerers who constantly stack 3 shield and immovable, are tanky as *** while they also providing high burst and cc.

Secondly, I didn't mean 1vX moments like most dks and some templars do everytime. I meant 1v1 and small scale group fight. Heck, some good sorcerers can do 1vX as well, in Arena dueling guild(EU) (i wont give any names) So basicly it's l2p issue.

Lastly, Total Dark? Lol.


Edit: It's just shield stacking issue. Not specific to sorcerers, dks, templars or nbs. Once you stack multiple shields, you become tanky. And yes poor nbs can't do that efficiently like other classes.

2nd edit: These posts are from templar perspective after all. Although I capped everything that helps my damaging abilities, I still don't have enough dps to break shields quickly and kill them on my own.

However I have zero problem with someone who doesn't stack shields. They die slowly, but they die at the end, if I play carefully. It's my class' issue in exchange of high survivability and I'm ok with that.

But if someone has high burst dps while he/she is uber tanky, then there is a problem.

Pmarsico9

What are sorcerers meant to do?

Annoy the crap out of everybody else with Crystal Shards knock downs, Streak Ult farming, shield stacking, Bat Swarm Popping, and then immediate disapparation as soon as somebody gets through your shields to about 20 miles away in 8 GCDs so you can be teh unkillable leetsauce.

Cody

"NBs kill us quickly"
....

Cody

to be honest with you every sorcerer I face is a pain in the (snip) to kill. they block the entire battle, while using crystal frags and spamming the crap out of mages fury, curse, all that crap they use. once I actually get thru their block, they BE away; heal, then come back to resume (snip)ing me off., and if I get them to low health... damage shield time!!!:D or... get this... it will be BE spam. it will be someone with a staff, stunning you with BE the entire battle.

The sorcerer class is FAR from this "Squishy weak class" some people have had the nerve to call it. You either:

A. refuse to use the "cookie cutter" builds, but have yet to find your own build
B. you use the "cookie cutter build" but still get killed a lot with it

If any class is weak, it is either the Templar or the Nightblade(or both)

trust me when I say this, because I have been playing since beta: sorcerers are not this weak squishy class a lot of yall seem to think it is. Make a NB, put him/her with a build beside the typical LA staff build, then compare them to your sorcerer..... you will see a huge difference.

Crescent

Cody wrote: »

to be honest with you every sorcerer I face is a pain in the (snip) to kill. they block the entire battle, while using crystal frags and spamming the crap out of mages fury, curse, all that crap they use. once I actually get thru their block, they BE away; heal, then come back to resume (snip)ing me off., and if I get them to low health... damage shield time!!!:D or... get this... it will be BE spam. it will be someone with a staff, stunning you with BE the entire battle.

The sorcerer class is FAR from this "Squishy weak class" some people have had the nerve to call it. You either:

A. refuse to use the "cookie cutter" builds, but have yet to find your own build
B. you use the "cookie cutter build" but still get killed a lot with it

If any class is weak, it is either the Templar or the Nightblade(or both)

trust me when I say this, because I have been playing since beta: sorcerers are not this weak squishy class a lot of yall seem to think it is. Make a NB, put him/her with a build beside the typical LA staff build, then compare them to your sorcerer..... you will see a huge difference.

Yeah the difference I see is my melee NB does a lot more DPS than my melee sorcerer.

Crescent

Cody wrote: »

to be honest with you every sorcerer I face is a pain in the (snip) to kill. they block the entire battle, while using crystal frags and spamming the crap out of mages fury, curse, all that crap they use. once I actually get thru their block, they BE away; heal, then come back to resume (snip)ing me off., and if I get them to low health... damage shield time!!!:D or... get this... it will be BE spam. it will be someone with a staff, stunning you with BE the entire battle.

The sorcerer class is FAR from this "Squishy weak class" some people have had the nerve to call it. You either:

A. refuse to use the "cookie cutter" builds, but have yet to find your own build
B. you use the "cookie cutter build" but still get killed a lot with it

If any class is weak, it is either the Templar or the Nightblade(or both)

trust me when I say this, because I have been playing since beta: sorcerers are not this weak squishy class a lot of yall seem to think it is. Make a NB, put him/her with a build beside the typical LA staff build, then compare them to your sorcerer..... you will see a huge difference.

Yeah the difference I see is my melee NB does a lot more DPS than my melee sorcerer.

Let's be honest here, the PvP in this game by design will never be balanced so long as abilities designed with PvE damage for mobs with far larger health pools than the average player stays around.

You will never have a balanced pvp game if skills are not split and things like base resilience are not cooked in to prevent silly crap like stealth snipe 2-shots.

Erock25

Cody wrote: »

Make a NB, put him/her with a build beside the typical LA staff build, then compare them to your sorcerer..... you will see a huge difference.

Yes my stamina NB >>>>> my stamina Sorc. My LA staff+snb build NB = LA staff +snb Sorc.

Mendoze

faernaa wrote: »

Read my post again.
Firstly, I didnt compare shields in game. I just point out that sorcerers who constantly stack 3 shield and immovable, are tanky as *** while they also providing high burst and cc.

Secondly, I didn't mean 1vX moments like most dks and some templars do everytime. I meant 1v1 and small scale group fight. Heck, some good sorcerers can do 1vX as well, in Arena dueling guild(EU) (i wont give any names) So basicly it's l2p issue.

Lastly, Total Dark? Lol.


Edit: It's just shield stacking issue. Not specific to sorcerers, dks, templars or nbs. Once you stack multiple shields, you become tanky. And yes poor nbs can't do that efficiently like other classes.

2nd edit: These posts are from templar perspective after all. Although I capped everything that helps my damaging abilities, I still don't have enough dps to break shields quickly and kill them on my own.

However I have zero problem with someone who doesn't stack shields. They die slowly, but they die at the end, if I play carefully. It's my class' issue in exchange of high survivability and I'm ok with that.

But if someone has high burst dps while he/she is uber tanky, then there is a problem.

You said: "Back to seriousness, this type of sorcs are my nightmare in game. It's super op tanky even more than most DKs and templars due to the multiple shield stacking. "
Maybe I understood it wrong, but I thought you said Sorcerers are super op tanks, even better than DKs and Templars. I pointed out, that both DKs and Templars actually have class shields of their own, and in my opinion both are better than Sorcerer shield, so how on earth sorcerer can be a better tank? To make the gap even bigger, Sorcerers don't have burst heals like DKs and Templars do, so I find it really hard to understand how you can say that Sorcerers are super OP in tanking department. Heck, you don't even need to stack shields, because you want your Blazing Shield to explode.

Total Dark Lol? It says quite clearly in it's description: "Target reflects negative single target Spells back at themselves for X seconds". So correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean it reflects pretty much everything sorcerer can throw at Templar? So it's like Reflective Scales, except you cast it on one opponent, not on yourself. Also when it ends, it decreases spellpower. What really is so lol about that skill? And yes, it can be purged, but I still think it rocks. I know that it probably won't even fit for most Templars skill bar, but I'd still love to have same type of skill for my sorcerer. Unfortunately that probably won't happen before spellcrafting, because apparently Sorcerers are already OP, even though they can't even damage 2/3 of other classes. But don't worry, all the Nightblade forum warriors are crying nerfs loudly in every thread, so I'm sure soon it's 3/3. Maybe then you are happy?

Khivas_Carrick

Seriously, just stop while you're ahead my friend. Because you're not. If you're having PvP trouble I feel bad for you son, because I got 99 problems but a Sorc ain't one.

Except that they are because they are duuuumb strong. But so are NBs and DKs and Templars. In PvP at least. At least, you know, you're not pigeonholed into a single role.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Malveria wrote: »

Honestly, I am so tired of seeing my favourite class nerfed because people are sad we can get away from them. Enough with people crying about Streak please. We have a 50% magika cost increase and a 50% magika regen reduction. Just because a few sorcerers can get away doesn't mean they all can. We are a class that relies on position, mobility, and CC, and we are rapidly losing all of that. I am at a loss as to how to even play my class with any effectiveness. My pool of resources is rapidly diminishing.

In combat, we have very little capacity to put out large amounts of damage, especially on more than one target. Our one large-scale damaging ulti, Atronach, takes forever to build because we have next to no class-based ulti generating abilities. Crit Surge reduces the distance we can fight from, and the spells that we can use, and strips our ability to use weapons (which is now where most of our damage comes from). Negate? Is totally counterable and it can be moved out of.

Mage's wrath? Does minimal damage until you get your opponent to 20% health, and that's next to impossible without help. And not just a group of friends. Just someone else to do the damage a sorc cannot. Crystal frag is not spammable. It has a cast time or (if proccing) a visual warning. It's dodgeable, and it doesn't always do a great deal of damage.

DK's have one ability, (reflect) that IS spammable, that renders all but one of our attacks (curse) ineffective against them. And only one curse can be active per sorcerer, and it has a detonation time so it can be purged or purified off, making it a useless cost of magika.

Templars have class-based heals on a massive scale that means we cannot do the damage to them needed to kill them, not to mention a high DPS output meaning that outlasting a Templar in combat (by resource management) is nearly impossible.

Nightblades kill us quickly because we have to sacrifice protection for combat effectiveness and magika regen. The CC and damage they inflict on a single target is phenomenal.

And don't let the response be 'get more skill'. I can play my class. But if there's only one way to play a class, how does that require skill? When there are multiple ways to play the other classes, and we're left with an easily-filled five slot bar because we just have no other abilities, how is that skill?

I thought this was a game where people could branch out, find numerous ways to play. Nightblades are good tanks and healers and DPS, all three roles. Templars are good tanks and healers and Dps. DKs are good tanks and DPS. Sorceres have the potential to be tanky, but no capacity for high damage output. And our only class-based heal is a time-consuming channel.

We are aoe capped in everything we can do. We're struggling to survive. We are struggling to kill people. We're struggling to be effective in large-scale combat. I want to help my faction. I want to fight and have fun. Die and kill. But some of the best theory crafters and sorcerers I know are now scraping the bottom of the barrel to be effective in combat.

Why does this class even exist?

I am not whining. I'm desperate here. Someone please help me. Is there something I don't know? Is there something I'm missing?

What am I meant to be able to do?

Especially in PVP.

I still think sorcerers are the most versatile class in the game.

Soris

@Mendoze

1) It is clear sorcerers don't have to stand still with block up and tank 50 people at once. It's dk's playstyle not sorc's.
However, they do it in different way. If you ever played Eve Online, then you may be familiar to Nano Tank term which means basicly, "move fast while you doing damage, so they can't catch you, because you dont have much defense".
It fits perfect to negate-streak-streak-streak-batswarm-streak... playstyle. If you get caught, you dead. No problem so far for a glass cannon archetype.
But,(if you fast enough) when you stack multiple shields and immovable with this playstyle, you also mitigate %50 of incoming damage like a real tank, and problem is right here. In fact, you literally take zero damage when all shields are up.
It works even better in 1v1 builds due to the lack of players around and incoming damage.

2) Total dark not only be purged but also you can break it like normal CCs and after that you become immune to both new total dark and real CCs. How come a reflect spell counts as hard CC and grants CC immunity in logical thinking way? It is mostly useless in pvp because of this.

3) You can still have your own reflect with defansive stance. When you start using this, you will have no problem fighting vs reflect spammer dks. It's pretty popular for sorcs in these days.

4) If you really have dps problems in pvp, then you might reconsider your build.

5) By any chance, if you are one of those fragment spammers over and over(with cast time ofc), then sure you'll have lots of problems in pvp.
(^This one for all sorcs who only do this )

guybrushtb16_ESO

Mendoze wrote: »

Total Dark Lol? It says quite clearly in it's description: "Target reflects negative single target Spells back at themselves for X seconds". So correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean it reflects pretty much everything sorcerer can throw at Templar? So it's like Reflective Scales, except you cast it on one opponent, not on yourself. Also when it ends, it decreases spellpower. What really is so lol about that skill? And yes, it can be purged, but I still think it rocks. I know that it probably won't even fit for most Templars skill bar, but I'd still love to have same type of skill for my sorcerer. Unfortunately that probably won't happen before spellcrafting, because apparently Sorcerers are already OP, even though they can't even damage 2/3 of other classes. But don't worry, all the Nightblade forum warriors are crying nerfs loudly in every thread, so I'm sure soon it's 3/3. Maybe then you are happy?

It can be cc broken and purged, it is subject to cc immunity and it is a debuff against one target, vs. a buff on the caster that works against all opponents.

Khivas_Carrick

They said it for me, and much nicer than what I was going to put it no less. Total Dark is bad, not stop trying to make Sorcerers look like they're a weak or worthless class.

Mendoze

@faernaa I have to admit I did not know Total Dark gives CC immunity, but does Immovable protect you from Eclipse and it's morphs too? I mean, is it considered as a CC or spell? If immovable does not protect from it, then I still think it's a great utility. I mean, I have to use a hard cc break and stamina ( and get CC immunity like I would from stun ) or purge ( I assume purge won't give CC immunity ) to get out of it, or be useless for next 5 seconds.

If immovable does not give you Total Dark immunity, only difference between Reflective Scales and Total Dark is you can't totally halt my DPS, but I still have to use hard CC break every 7 seconds to be able to attack you. That's the same as if you stun me every 7 seconds and I have to break free, or is it cheaper to break free from Total Dark?

What comes to your shield stacking explanation, I know stacking shields is very effective in 1vs1. But you originally said sorcerers are better than DKs and Templars in tanking, and that I was protesting against. Also I know sorcerers have the mobility, but that does not make them better tanks than DKs or Templars. We get away easier than DKs and Templars, but we certainly are not OP tanks as you originally said. If you can't break through Sorcerer shields, you won't do any better against shield stacking DK or Templar either.

Also I have no problem with DPS in PVP, it's just when people reflect it all back to me. That's why I said 2/3 classes ( DKs and Templars ). Also I don't spam fragment unless it procs.

@Khivas_Carrick‌ What are you talking about and who are you talking to?