Weapons regaining resources on heavy attack. Implications on trial dps game.

Thejollygreenone

As the title suggests, I'd like to bring up this new feature just implemented into the game, as no one yet has made a forum post about it, I figured I might as well. Here are my thoughts on the subject.

First off, I would hope that this discourages a bit of resto staff dps use, as should the change to the Cycle of Life passive. In its wake, it encourages more single target destro staff use, which isn't all too much a bad thing I suppose.

I personally thought that the use of a resto staff or shield to do maximum damage is way off target, so I welcome this discouragement although I'm sure some resto-staff dpsers wont be too happy.

Next comes the inevitable discussion of how is this going to affect stamina dps? It seems that rotations for DW and 2H already weave heavy attacks between each ability, so they'll take the change fine. But bow has a particularly odd heavy attack, and generally isn't used in rotations.

Will this change force people to find bow rotations using heavy attacks? Maybe so, and again I'm sure I'd welcome it for sheer sake of diversity. But this leads to another question back to destro staves, will this change force destro staff users to accommodate potentially clunky heavy attacks into their rotations? (Lightning staff seems interesting in this department)

As you can see, there's a lot of things to think about in regards to this new change. Has anyone already started experimenting and would like to share some findings, or if not would anyone be willing to do some testing for their weapontypes and see what one can come up with?

schroed360

Would love to see the result of some theorycrafter...Actually the experimentation of those theory . Sorry OP I can t help because I m mainly a tank and I m still working on my DD spec which is still really low ...

Sasky

If the amount of return was decent / could be brought to a decent level, sure. As it is, it's a fixed value based only on character level. Bow has the highest stamina return at ~175, with other stamina at 125 or lower (VR14). Considering the time for a full heavy attack, unless you already have it in your rotation it really won't help.

Most magicka builds won't bother with a heavy attack in the rotation, as spell symmetry is quicker and gives you much more magicka return. And weaving a light attack before that means you really don't lose out much on damage compared to a heavy.

ericprydz82ub17_ESO

OP doesn't realize it takes a full heavy attack to gain that stamina back and not a partial heavy attack which is already in peoples' rotations.

Thejollygreenone

ericprydz82ub17_ESO wrote: »

OP doesn't realize it takes a full heavy attack to gain that stamina back and not a partial heavy attack which is already in peoples' rotations.

Reply...er..(?) doesn't realize some weapons like DW can clip a heavy to partial duration but still via buggy coding, or whatever be it, be considered and does the full damage of a fully charged heavy attack.

I would imagine this transfers to the stamina return, although I don't dual wield nor have the skills with points in them to test it, so someone else should swoop in with experience on that front.

However, I'm positive 2h has this property (as that's a weapontype I use and can test), or it just happens to be the case that wrecking blow/heavy attack weaving isn't actually clipping the heavy attack to partial standards.

Regardless, a stamina return in the natural 2h rotation is occurring. There's two of the three dps stamina weapons that technically use full heavy attacks. But I'm not even sure that this matters?

Even for the weapons that don't use full heavy attacks in their rotations, or even the ones that use light attacks, isn't the thing I'm trying to discuss figuring out how someone in such a dilemma could adapt to this change and find ways and rotations that could include full heavy attacks?

(I leave staves out of this for reasons brought up by a kind poster before you and since you specifically mentioned stamina)

Honestly I don't think I can take your reply any other way than as an insult, in which case I think you're really reaching for one. Try adding something productive. So there's a wall o' text for your attempt at demeaning, you brought this upon yourself.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

I play dw NB and heavy canceling is part of my rotation coz of incapacitate. Answer is- yes u get back stamina on partial heavy attacks.

Thejollygreenone

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

I play dw NB and heavy canceling is part of my rotation coz of incapacitate. Answer is- yes u get back stamina on partial heavy attacks.

Thanks for the input mate, so that's confirmed as suspected that both dw and 2h effectively get to reap the benefit of this. Magicka builds may not need it with equilibrium. Where does that leave bow?

Two options are here as I see it:

The first option is a subset of two options, being that bow users either piggyback off of the better stamina regeneration of a dw/2h rotation as their offbar and switch between the two fluidly, or one could just use dw/2h primarily and switching to bow when range is necessary.

This first option seems like the most likely scenario.

The second option would be bow users brainstorm like mofos on developing a rotation that would allow for the occasional weaving in of a heavy attack, or if possible to find a rotation that does solid dps that even primarily uses heavy attacks to weave.

This option seems like a stretch, but I think it's worth thinking about.

Thechemicals

What kind fo feedback would you like?

Does it work? Yes
Is it good? Yes
You run out of stamina? nope

Clipping wrecking blow into a heavy attack and then excutioner over and ove ris pretty boring but hey....anything for superior dps and infinite stamina.

Thejollygreenone

Thechemicals wrote: »

What kind fo feedback would you like?

Does it work? Yes
Is it good? Yes
You run out of stamina? nope

Clipping wrecking blow into a heavy attack and then excutioner over and ove ris pretty boring but hey....anything for superior dps and infinite stamina.

Heh, I guess I wasn't clear enough Let me attempt to clarify what's been discussed while interjecting some of my own thoughts. Most of this was said in some previous post, but I'll reiterate anyway.

I brought up 2h and dw as subjects that don't need to be further discussed. They already have heavy attack clipping in their rotations and it's great. Good for them. But what about the weapontypes that don't?

Destro staves come to mind having this issue, but they have equilibrium so they don't have regen issues. That only leaves 2h, dw and bow, and 2h and dw already use heavy attacks, I suppose the last feedback needed is that for bow users and how they could adapt.