Stamina Return Via Heavy Attack, nerf or buff?

Gorthax

So i have been listening to this player talk about this in guild chat. Anyone who uses clipping (animation cancelling) just got nerfed because people who dont clip got buffed. The only logic behind it is that he doesnt get the bonus from clipping his heavy attack, therefor he is nerfed. My argument was that since you are CANCELLING the heavy attack but still getting damage then you forfeit the stamina/magicka return. You trade superior dps for a stamina/magicka gain. COMPLETELY fair.

I would seriously like someone to explain to me how this is a nerf to clippers in any way shape or form. Dont resort to name calling because this guy LOVED that. Anyone who doesnt clip was uneducated, stupid, and didnt know how to play.

I choose not to clip because it is so freaking *** looking. Looks like my guy is having a freaking seizure lol So anyone care to chime in? I am sure I will see him in this forum, and if so, ONCE AGAIN NOT TRYING TO SOUND LIKE AN A HOLE!

So the question is: Should heavy attack clipping return stamina or magicka if you cancel the attack for the animation cancelling?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Im pretty sure people will still clip for the damage advantage when they need the damage advantage, but fully charge when they need the resource.

Until they finally get rid of clipping there will be the option.

Hypertionb14_ESO

Clipping always eventually caused you to run out of resources. but it used to be MP unique that you could get it back fast just by using heavy attacks


now the only remaining quick powerup MP has is Equalibrum

Davadin

My personal thoughts?
Clipping shouldn't be allowed in the game. I think that's not working as intended. Or at least should have a better transition when you cancel a skill and goes into another skill. A *nerf-ing* transition to stop clipping. It's just unnatural.

But, that being said, I do try clipping every now and then since it does makes a huge difference.

And with this 1.4.4 changes I believe will be GREAT to steer away from clipping issue.

People who cry "nerf" I feel (personally) are exploiters who got their bug fixed.

Merlin13KAGL

The animation should complete or the action should get cancelled, plain and simple. Otherwise, cooldowns have no effect.

@Gorthax, they're considering it a nerf because now they are forced to make a choice and they don't get both benefits. They have to choose one or the other.

Gorthax

exactly my point in the guild chat. You are being offered the choice: superior dps or resource return. But because i explained that to him, i am close minded and the game isnt fair and RUINS his play style though it didnt ruin anything lol

Gorthax

I would love it if someone from @ZOS would weigh in on this and explain why they should get it or why they shouldnt get it.

Arsenic_Touch

.....Giving you another choice is a nerf now? what the frack?

Tamanous

There is no nerf. When adding further benefit to something not being used because it was the weaker choice ... that is called a buff.

Some people just get stressed when more choices become available. That is their own issue.

Gorthax

dont tell the min/maxers that though, a crap storm argument ensues where the person explaining the decision is in the wrong :P

Csub

Some people are so "pr0", you cannot argue with them. Like trying to tell them they could take one stamina user or just simply a person without experience in a trial with them every once in a while since they are facerolling it anyway in fifteen minutes but Nooo, the Divines forbid the completion of the trials take two minutes more.

Anyway, just don't even try to argue with such people, they are always "right", of course, and you are wrong (at least according to them) :P

ExiledKhallisi

Basically what you just said was:

Anyone who spams skills when their magicka is full then swaps to heavy attacks is gimping themself.


This is the same for stamina now.

This is a huge buff.

Gorthax

I never said nothing i was explaining how it does NOT cripple the clippers in ANY way. That it in fact is a huge buff for non clippers and the clippers play style remains stagnant; i.e. not buffed nor nerfed.

Rune_Relic

Whats to say you cant clip and get damage + resource ?
This been tried yet ?

Gorthax

you have to actually get the FULL animation to get the bonus. I tried it, and the many people i argued with have tried it. Cancelling does not return it, which is how it SHOULD be. As the word CANCEL is self explanatory; you CANCELED the animation that would give you the resource return. Their loss

Nihil

Some people could feel like it is a nerf by ommision ( if something else gets it and they don't then it weakens their abilities by comparison). I personally feel it is a balancing. They wouldn't want to do it on a partial charge, as those are pretty fast, leading to to fast of resource regen I would imagine. Instead with a full charge heavy attack you are now switching dps for resource management. If you don't animation cancel at least part of the time you will still by far have a lower dps then those who do, but now we have the option of using heavy attacks to attempt to gain back our resource.

Wonder if this will add more strength to night blades hast ability... probably not enough to matter.

Kalman

Might make Weighted trait worth using esp on 2H.

mar1ano1987nrb18_ESO

how is this a nerf?

Maverick827

Csub wrote: »

Some people are so "pr0", you cannot argue with them. Like trying to tell them they could take one stamina user or just simply a person without experience in a trial with them every once in a while since they are facerolling it anyway in fifteen minutes but Nooo, the Divines forbid the completion of the trials take two minutes more.

Anyway, just don't even try to argue with such people, they are always "right", of course, and you are wrong (at least according to them) :P

The whole point of trials is to try to get the best time...

Gorthax

the entire point of trials is to find better gear and to have fun. The timed aspect is ONLY for competitive people. Not everyone is worried about best time, instead they just want to have fun and find new gear ^_^ This thread is not about the meaning of trials though :P

Yusuf

IMO it's a huuuuuge buff and a welcomed one. You can still animationcancel anyway.

Csub

Maverick827 wrote: »

Csub wrote: »

Some people are so "pr0", you cannot argue with them. Like trying to tell them they could take one stamina user or just simply a person without experience in a trial with them every once in a while since they are facerolling it anyway in fifteen minutes but Nooo, the Divines forbid the completion of the trials take two minutes more.

Anyway, just don't even try to argue with such people, they are always "right", of course, and you are wrong (at least according to them) :P

The whole point of trials is to try to get the best time...

If you want to go to top times, you take people you know. I am talking a bout pugs.

But I digress, let's return to the topic. :P

ferzalrwb17_ESO

You can still clip. There is a sweet spot where you get the stamina return and it's not a full charge. It looks to be about 1/4 to my eye. So they just need to adjust a little when they want a return (or create a second cheaty macro). In fact... it takes some timing skill to hit that sweet spot just right and not waste time but not hit it too early and not get the stamina return.... if you don't use a cheaty macro.

I hate animation cancelling because, yes, it's dumb but I tested this out and that's what I found.

Gorthax

interesting, i thought there was a sweet spot for it too, but i couldnt replicate it. Though i do not do clipping WILLINGLY (sometimes it happens in pvp out of frantic moment to moment fights), i think they should make it be a frame of the ending animation that grants the return. Something to make it so you cant clip it. You should only be able to choose one or the other. It is ZoS game though, so their decision is the final verdict. I will play clipping free and macro free and just enjoy my GAME lol.

I said it before and I will say it again; I can not stand the way clipping looks.....it is disgusting(constant seizures my guy is having) and trying to play that way just to get a few 100 more dps is not worth it (to me).

GnatB

Gorthax wrote: »

I never said nothing i was explaining how it does NOT cripple the clippers in ANY way. That it in fact is a huge buff for non clippers and the clippers play style remains stagnant; i.e. not buffed nor nerfed.

Not entirely true. If "non-clipping" is now superior, then clipping has been relatively nerfed. If he seems to be under the deluding opinion that clipping was somehow a demonstration of actual skill, then in his deluded mind the "skilled" version of gameplay is now nerfed relative to the "unskilled" method.

Gorthax

non clipping is not superior in dps output though. Therefor the clippers play style has not been nerfed in any way because non clipping was NOT made superior.

kitsinni

There is no possible way you can count this as a nerf. You get something you didn't have before. If you don't choose to use it that is your call.

On the other hand it is a pretty weak buff in most circumstances but it is what it is.

Rune_Relic

Gorthax wrote: »

interesting, i thought there was a sweet spot for it too, but i couldnt replicate it. Though i do not do clipping WILLINGLY (sometimes it happens in pvp out of frantic moment to moment fights), i think they should make it be a frame of the ending animation that grants the return. Something to make it so you cant clip it. You should only be able to choose one or the other. It is ZoS game though, so their decision is the final verdict. I will play clipping free and macro free and just enjoy my GAME lol.

I said it before and I will say it again; I can not stand the way clipping looks.....it is disgusting(constant seizures my guy is having) and trying to play that way just to get a few 100 more dps is not worth it (to me).

I think they should just lock out other animation until the last is complete.
It all comes down to who has the best natural timing/luck or those running macros.
As only the l33t will be running macros...this is unfair to the bulk of the playerbase.

Even so...many cancel to some degree as they simply cant complete dps wise without it. Dps will need rebalancing

Gorthax

A skilled player can beat a macro user. Just takes a lot of skill. I mean A LOT

tordr86b16_ESO

Gorthax wrote: »

A skilled player can beat a macro user. Just takes a lot of skill. I mean A LOT

yes, because casting a light attack before skill is sooooooo freaking haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

interesting, i thought there was a sweet spot for it too, but i couldnt replicate it. Though i do not do clipping WILLINGLY (sometimes it happens in pvp out of frantic moment to moment fights), i think they should make it be a frame of the ending animation that grants the return. Something to make it so you cant clip it. You should only be able to choose one or the other. It is ZoS game though, so their decision is the final verdict. I will play clipping free and macro free and just enjoy my GAME lol.

I said it before and I will say it again; I can not stand the way clipping looks.....it is disgusting(constant seizures my guy is having) and trying to play that way just to get a few 100 more dps is not worth it (to me).

I think they should just lock out other animation until the last is complete.
It all comes down to who has the best natural timing/luck or those running macros.
As only the l33t will be running macros...this is unfair to the bulk of the playerbase.

Even so...many cancel to some degree as they simply cant complete dps wise without it. Dps will need rebalancing

Macros aren't l33t, they're cheat.