First person camera bob - Possible toggle option?

TeiVII

I really felt that the inclusion of a more realistic movement of your camera in first person was a step in the right direction for animation that adds weight and substance to the game. I logged in today to see that it has been removed, and that there is no option to turn it back on. Can @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ comment on the likelihood of the implementation of this as a toggle-able option, or is this already in the works? Thanks again for your time and hard work to address major issues, as well as what seems to be insignificant ones. I promise they mean just as much to some of us.

sereneimp1337b14_ESO

I aggree with this. I really thought the bob motion was great for first person and gave ESO a more realistic feel to it. A toggle option would be amazing!

Montanabum

I totally agree, I thought the head bobbing was awesome and made the game feel more real.

Nebthet78

I would agree with a toggle, but I am glad they removed it for now as it was giving me migraines when I played.

AlexDougherty

Nebthet78 wrote: »

I would agree with a toggle, but I am glad they removed it for now as it was giving me migraines when I played.

Well Migraines are bad, mKay.

HippieTheGreat

I'm on board for a toggle. It didn't bother me that much but I can see where it would others.

bedlom

It was an awesome touch and I'm pissed they took it out altogether

TeiVII

I contacted CS about it, and was told this:

Customer Service wrote:

My name is Jon, and I am from the Elder Scrolls Support Team, I'm sorry that the update took away the head bobbing effect but the characters head was never intend to bob while in first person view. It was a glitch that caused your characters had to do that while playing the game, and as you know the update fixed that issue. However all hope is not lost, while I don't think I would ever use that feature, I think it would be cool to have that option so that players like yourself can enjoy awesome head bobbing action. In-game, you can submit feedback and by typing /feedback and put what ever you'd like to see in the game. Now I can't promise that it will happen but its better to try then to not try at all. Plus if you get enough friends to submit the same request it would be more likely to happen. I hope this has helped.

Warm Regards, Jonny P

So, I guess, what appeared to be a pretty advanced, improved first person camera animation was just a glitch. To me, it seemed to be a vast improvement over floating cameras, so if you guys want at least an option to have that kind of camera movement in game, please feel free to submit a /feedback report stating that you liked the alleged bug. Any chance we can get some confirmation on this one @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno?

GnatB

I don't get the point of head bob in games. When I'm walking/running in reality, I don't notice any bobbing because, I assume, my eyes are automatically moving to compensate. About all that's noticeable is some minor parallax around whatever it is I'm focused on.

Head bobbing is "fake" reality, like depth of field. Sure, it's there in reality. But the brain automatically compensates so you never *really* notice it. Whatever I'm looking at is always stationary/in focus. So then since the computer can't know what I'm looking at*, inevitably (if not most of the time) the wrong things get bobbed/blurred, which just doesn't feel at all right. It's better just to not do it.

*I guess, theoretically, at some point a monitor could have sensors on it that track eye movement, use it to calculate exactly the position on screen you're focused on, do a raycast or something to figure out the actual game object at that position, then do depth of field/bob around that particular object. But that's likely some time off and far more trouble than it's probably worth.

(P.S. Yeah, depth of field is probably the silliest thing people put in games since lens flare. Just a bunch of technical artists showing off their "skills" w/o considering they're making their games look silly.)

Apothecy

The head bob has been on the PTS since Craglorn was added. It was obviously something they had worked on in the past, but decided they never wanted to add. It doesn't really make any sense.

I loved the head bobbing. It made the game a lot more immersive. The only thing I didn't like was how much the camera looked down when moving backwards.

TeiVII

@Gnatb, You do, in fact, notice a bit of movement when walking, and noticeably more so when sprinting (It's changed perspective based on the location of your eyes, not them bouncing in your head), but I don't know of any reason this feature shouldn't be in the game unless it was the culprit of the multiple reports of CTD from update 4. Just because you don't think you can see it, or you view it as a misdirection of art funds, doesn't mean no one should be allowed to use it if was clearly already in the game. It's cinematic, and it follows theme with what Skyrim did in adding a camera shake whilst sprinting. It added weight and kineticism to combat.

As for its existence on the PTS, and Mister Jonny P's response, I'd like to ask that the development team seriously considers at least adding it as an option unless it would inherently hurt the stability of the game. I can understand the concern about the possibility of it causing headaches and motion sickness, as well, and would even suggest setting it off by default. If not, at the very least, I'd like to request a developer/ZOS social media rep's response about the reason as to why not. After this case of misinformation through potential ignorance in the CS department's handling of my ticket, I'd just like to at least hear back from someone informed on the subject.

Thank you in advance, and thank you guys for all the hard work and the leaps in community interaction you've been taking. Just watched the live stream, love that you guys are showing your faces and talking to us about the process (like some of us might understand it.) I cant wait to finish Cadwell's Gold, jump into Craglorn, and see what else you magic makers have whipped up for us this time.

Edited for space and clarity.

Knootewoot

GnatB wrote: »

I don't get the point of head bob in games. When I'm walking/running in reality, I don't notice any bobbing because, I assume, my eyes are automatically moving to compensate. About all that's noticeable is some minor parallax around whatever it is I'm focused on.

Head bobbing is "fake" reality, like depth of field. Sure, it's there in reality. But the brain automatically compensates so you never *really* notice it. Whatever I'm looking at is always stationary/in focus. So then since the computer can't know what I'm looking at*, inevitably (if not most of the time) the wrong things get bobbed/blurred, which just doesn't feel at all right. It's better just to not do it.

*I guess, theoretically, at some point a monitor could have sensors on it that track eye movement, use it to calculate exactly the position on screen you're focused on, do a raycast or something to figure out the actual game object at that position, then do depth of field/bob around that particular object. But that's likely some time off and far more trouble than it's probably worth.

(P.S. Yeah, depth of field is probably the silliest thing people put in games since lens flare. Just a bunch of technical artists showing off their "skills" w/o considering they're making their games look silly.)

There is head bobbing IRL. Well, maybe not just your head, but if you walk you don't float. If you put a camera on your head it's easier to see. I do notice the "headbobbing" when i am walking. You just have to pay attention to it.

And lens flares... yeah. I always pretend i wear sunglasses in the game. I never seen a lens flare irl except when i was looking though a camera or.. a lens.

TeiVII

Ok, I've messaged @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ for clarification on the subject, but I'm kind of wishing I had made this a poll to draw a little more attention to it. (Ha, or had known you can "Ask a Question.")

Edited for fictitious characters and unknown functions.

GnatB

Again, headbobbing when you walk/run doesn't occur as it does in games, because your eyes automatically adjust to keep whatever you're looking at at the same relative position in your field of view, unless you're looking off unfocused into the distance, which doesn't really happen. (but is effectively what happens to a camera attached to your head. it's angle of view doesn't compensate. It remains pointing straight ahead) All you see is some parallax of the objects behind/in front of that object (which again, isn't terribly noticeable as it's not what you're focusing on. As soon as you do focus on those objects, *they* are the ones that are effectively stationary, and it's the other objects that suffer parallax. Which is nothing remotely like the headbob you experience in games.

Headbob in games does accurately represent what a camera attached to your head would experience. It doesn't accurately represent what an actual person experiences.

For exaggeration, stick finger horizontal in front of your head and hold it steady. Move head up and down while looking at it. Blurry world beyond the finger moves down and up, but the thing your looking at, your finger, doesn't move. Your eyes automatically look up as your head moves down, keeping it in the same position in your field of view. And the rest of the world beyond your focus moves *inverted* to your head movement.

Aett_Thorn

From what I understand, it wasn't taken out because it was a glitch (unlike what CS told someone here), but because it wasn't supposed to go in yet. Basically, it wasn't supposed to go in until there was an option for it.

Considering that several people (including myself) posted on the forums that it was giving them physical discomfort, I am glad that they removed it until they put it back in as an option.

I am fine with them including the feature, I just need to be able to turn it off. Because otherwise I get a sense of disorientation and headaches after sprinting even for a short distance from the way the head-bobbing was done. I have never experienced that in any other game from similar effects, so go figure. But physical discomfort trumps "I want" any day of the week, IMO.

TeiVII

@Aett_Thorn, I agree completely, and as I said, if the problem was just that they haven't developed the functionality to enable/disable it, and it was released early, I'm entirely fine with waiting for it to be perfected. I'd just like to know what's really up.

@GnatB, my friend, I entirely understand, but you've said it yourself. Your character's view is not your own, so the ability to focus on a single object, and just trace it (while probably possible to attach as a programmable quantity on tab targeting) is not something the game engine has the capacity to do. To get a better, more cinematic, Elder Scrolls-like feel in first person, some camera shake is going to necessary. Think of your monitor as a window, and not your eyes. It would shake as its perspective changed, the physical form of your character moving in that space, so your eyes will do the adjusting for you on that object in a "three dimensional" space. It's purely simulated, and maybe it doesn't trick your brain as much as make you violently ill, but it's certainly a nice added feature, and I'm interested to know if/when it'll be back.

I appreciate your input, guys. I'm not on the PTS, and I, as you can see, have really only recently started using the forums, so I appreciate the positive feedback.

djseverin

Would very much like to see Head Bobbing in first person view. Preferably with an "intensity" settings control.

Eg. A slider control that would allow Head Bobbing to be tuned from disabled to very obvious.

This would allow players who enjoy the realism delivered by this feature to tune it to their own personal preference.