Would You Be Content If Your Sorcerer Couldn't Cast Spells?

Blackthorn51

Would you be content if your tank couldn't use a shield or block anything?
What about if your Healer couldn't use healing spells?

Im thinking the answer would be obvious. My question then is why do people feel the need to bash on NB players because we are unhappy that our stealth class has absolutely ZERO stealth capacity? You would be complaining worse if your Sorcerer couldn't cast spells. Welcome to the world of the Night Blade. A Stealth Based Class that lacks the ability to use stealth any better than a Knight in Full Plate.

First off, I am a skilled player. My character is optimized and maxed out and I am very competent. This is not a L2P thing. On a DK I can easily take on and kill 4 or more players at the same time without breaking a sweat and yet my Nightblade can not 1v1 any -skilled- combatant. There are several reasons for this but what it comes down to is Blocking. The I win style for my DK for instance is to run into a mob and hold block. Dont bother attacking because all I gotta do is block until my ult pops. Once it pops everyone around me dies. If I get hurt I just use dragon blood to insta-heal. This strategy is impossible for the nightblade however. It simply does not work not because NBs cant block, but because we cant heal unless we are using a resto staff.

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I had written a novel worth of information about why Night Blades are under powered or are weak in PVP that I just deleted because while typing it, a thought occurred to me. Night Blades are not Weak. They are not under powered. The problem that is plaguing this class and this game is that BLOCKING is OVERPOWERED.

You see our class is 100% damage based. We use crits, we use stealth and we use ranged/melee attacks to deal damage. The problem is that any character, in any armor can push and hold down 1 button and completely negate our ability to deal any damage what so ever. So I thought about it. The best way to fix this game isnt to rebalance the classes. I noticed this because in PVE my Nightblade can easily perform on par next to any other class. The issues don't occur until you get into PVP and see that everything you try to do is negated by blocking.

So how do we fix it? I think the solution is an easy one.

Light Armor- Primarily worn by Mages. When wearing this armor, blocking should mitigate less than 10% of damage done. No shirt or robe is going to stop an arrow from puncturing your lung. If a mage wants to block then they should have to spend their resources to erect a magical barrier or shield. Holding the block button should do absolutely nothing for someone in light armor and all mitigation should come from defensive magic.

Medium Armor - Boiled Leather offers more protection than light armor, but still will not stop an arrow or sword from piercing your gut. Blocking in Medium Armor should mitigate no more than 20% of total damage done. Slightly more than light armor but by no means should holding block in medium mitigate 100% of incoming damage. Medium is less weight than heavy armor, so I feel that blocking in medium should cost less stamina over all but should not mitigate near as much damage as Heavy Armor

Heavy Armor - Now we're talking. Steel Plate Armor is by far going to be able to block more than any other armor. This armor style should be able to block 40% of damage but at the cost of higher stamina price to do so because blocking for a long durration in a 200lb suit of metal would definitely fatigue the wearer.

Shield - This item should increase total blocking mitigation by another 10%. This means that someone in Heavy Armor with a Shield could block up to 50% of incoming damage.

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Over all I feel that no combination of armor, magic or otherwise should ever block 100% of damage done. I also feel that flanking should reduce the blocking ability. If someone hits you from behind, that shield your holding in front of you isn't going to do very much.

This right here is the heart and soul of why Nightblades feel so under powered. Our primary focus is damage but all it takes is a nancy in a robe holding down right mouse click to reduce our effectiveness by 100% And there it is.

So please Zenimax. Fix the blocking system and I guarantee you will notice a reduction in complaints from night blades (not including broken stealth complaints) by far.

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Honestly I don't even see how anyone could argue against this. It just makes too much sense and I cant believe it didn't occur to me sooner. Adjust blocking to appropriately reflect the armor and equipment you are wearing and SO MANY aspects of PVP would improve

Sneak_Thief

Take away Bolt escape, you'll never hear the end of it. But you have a valid arguement, Most classes can be an NB just as good as a NB can so we have zero edge in the game. There will be a day when the Sorc is nerfed, and everyone used to an OP toon will be very butthurt, but I say.. Welcome to the Club.

Nihili

Meh, my night blade performs fine for me- oh err I mean NO. WE SUCK AT PVP. BUFF US PLS.

jk

dharbert

Now I've seen it all. Blocking, of all things, is considered OP....

This has been discussed many, many times before. There is a reason why EVERYONE has 360 degree blocking ability. Latency.

As far as blocking in general goes, you think that I shouldn't be able to block incoming attacks? I should just stand there and let you slaughter me?

The one thing you people keep forgetting is this game isn't PvP only, and any changes that are made also affect solo players and PvE.

NakedSnake

Petition to remove dragon blood, blazing shield, shadow cloak and bolt escape from the game. Who's with me?





...Rants of NB too OP the very next day.

Junkogen

NakedSnake wrote: »

Petition to remove dragon blood, blazing shield, shadow cloak and bolt escape from the game. Who's with me?





...Rants of NB too OP the very next day.

Shadow cloak is not on par with any of those other abilities you mentioned, not even close.

And NB actually wouldn't be OP if you removed those others. The playing field would still be in those other classes' favor. There's not much a NB can do that another class can't do.

waswar

Make the Nightblade class stronger. But there's no need to nerf sorcerer. Anyone who believes they are "overpowered" is ignorant and adrift in denial. The Sorcerer class is perfect. In fact, light armor received a nerf the last patch. Why nerf the class more?

ers101284b14_ESO

Every time a Nightblade complains they make the class worse. Keep complaining then meet me in PVP

NakedSnake

Junkogen wrote: »

NakedSnake wrote: »

Petition to remove dragon blood, blazing shield, shadow cloak and bolt escape from the game. Who's with me?





...Rants of NB too OP the very next day.

Shadow cloak is not on par with any of those other abilities you mentioned, not even close.

And NB actually wouldn't be OP if you removed those others. The playing field would still be in those other classes' favor. There's not much a NB can do that another class can't do.

Cloak is the class defining skill (that is actually useful).

The field would be equal with all the Iwin buttons removed, broken skills aside. Also people will QQ regardless.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

waswar wrote: »

Make the Nightblade class stronger. But there's no need to nerf sorcerer. Anyone who believes they are "overpowered" is ignorant and adrift in denial. The Sorcerer class is perfect. In fact, light armor received a nerf the last patch. Why nerf the class more?

umm LA isn't sorc specific. I was nerfed just as much by that (incidentally, it is sort of a buff, makes the spell resist boost of LA mean something.)

Vahrokh

Blackthorn51 wrote: »

Im thinking the answer would be obvious. My question then is why do people feel the need to bash on NB players because we are unhappy that our stealth class has absolutely ZERO stealth capacity?

Where's written you are playing a WoW rogue?

Blackthorn51 wrote: »

First off, I am a skilled player. My character is optimized and maxed out and I am very competent. This is not a L2P thing.

I tend to not believe self incensing people, expecially given the following:

Blackthorn51 wrote: »

Light Armor- Primarily worn by Mages. When wearing this armor, blocking should mitigate less than 10% of damage done. No shirt or robe is going to stop an arrow from puncturing your lung. If a mage wants to block then they should have to spend their resources to erect a magical barrier or shield. Holding the block button should do absolutely nothing for someone in light armor and all mitigation should come from defensive magic.

Your "competence" has just morphed a "play how you like" game into an "holy trinity" poor WoW copy, where you can't ever have a Sorc tank. Heavy armor for sorcs only works well enough up to VR4 then they have to switch to light + self magic armor buffs. Being unable to block = dead tank. Actually, offtank, because I have yet to see sorc main tanks for end game (trials).

Mykah

Great post. Blocking in this game is broken and single handedly enables turtle builds to dominate pvp. It should be nerfed, made 180*, and staffs/bows should not be able to block melee weapons, only shields should be able to block bows.

Samadhi

dharbert wrote: »

...
This has been discussed many, many times before. There is a reason why EVERYONE has 360 degree blocking ability. Latency.
...

Could we start receiving the Sneak Attack bonus from 360 degrees then?

I am not clear why I have to be in the back 180 degrees of a character in order to receive a damage bonus on undetected Sneak Attacks.
I presuppose that this means that latency is what screws up some of my Sneak Attacks.

If it is less problematic for the server to run 360 degree calculations on damage reduction, then how about making it so that damage increase takes place within 360 degrees as well?

Blackthorn51

See that's what im trying to say even though it looks like some of you people couldn't understand the point of the O.P. The other classes aren't over-powered. The night blade isn't under-powered. It's just that the way night blade is played, it happens to be the class that notices the Blocking the most. 1 Block negates 100% of our damage. I feel that if they just altered blocking to be appropriate to the armor or weapon you are using then it would seriously balance things out.

I dont think any class needs nerfed at all. Each have there merits its just that other classes have the survival to outlast blocking where as the Nightblade does not.

If we would just balance out blocking to be appropriate I am fairly confident night blade complaints would dramatically reduce.

You want your sorc to be a tank? Go get some heavy armor. Nothing is stopping you from doing that but there is a trade off. A sacrifice. Blocking however should definitely reflect the equipment you are wearing. To argue otherwise is just because heaven forbid your OP kill 10 people by yourself build gets evened out with the rest of the game.

No nancy in Light Armor with a Wooden Stick is going to stop a Claymore from cutting you in half without some magical wall of force spell. If blocking reflected this you would see a lot less light armor builds and a lot more viable medium/heavy armor ones. Like it or not - it's the truth.

Again I'm not saying that people with light armor, bows and staves shouldn't be able to block. I'm saying you shouldn't be able to block 100% of damage being done to you. That's the job of a Heavy Armor Tank (Of any class). This would simply require that you play with skill instead of the old "Hold Block and Spam Impulse" style of play. Do you remember when games required skill? I sure wish this one did. Changing blocking would force some of you twits to actually use your heads in a fight regardless of your class.

I play Multiple Classes though my NB is my main yet I still stand behind this statement even though that means my light armor character would have to actually do something other than block - aoe - block - aoe.

Edit: I also did not play WOW. That game was garbage imo.

Vahrokh

Mykah wrote: »

Great post. Blocking in this game is broken and single handedly enables turtle builds to dominate pvp. It should be nerfed, made 180*, and staffs/bows should not be able to block melee weapons, only shields should be able to block bows.

Too bad it's not even realistic, as in RL you can bock blows by using a staff or other "pole" object.

Blackthorn51

I can roll with the best of them in game on any other character. Even on my night blade I survive because of the time and effort I've put into learning how to. At the end of the day it's not lack of skill that's the problem. In fact I would say that playing a night blade who isn't in light with a destro/resto would be this game's version of 'Expert Mode' and I'm perfectly competent at it. No amount of skill can fix a broken class on a buggy system though. That's the developers job which is what these forums are for. Why is it all the complaints come from the same class? Even an idiot can see after a while that clearly there is something wrong with the class.

You know whats going to be funny though, is all you people who think your OP now and shout "JUST L2P" are going to be crying on the day when Night Blades (And hopefully Blocking) get fixed because those of us who suffered through all of this [snip] are going to be gods and your going to get killed over and over by us. Consider that. Or perhaps thats why you talk down on every night blade thread. Your afraid of what we'll do if the class ever gets fixed.



[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Redlag

dharbert wrote: »

Now I've seen it all. Blocking, of all things, is considered OP....

This has been discussed many, many times before. There is a reason why EVERYONE has 360 degree blocking ability. Latency.

As far as blocking in general goes, you think that I shouldn't be able to block incoming attacks? I should just stand there and let you slaughter me?

The one thing you people keep forgetting is this game isn't PvP only, and any changes that are made also affect solo players and PvE.

Well as far as that goes.. Why are NBs openers behind the target? Latency doesn't matter, because no one wants to die. Latency matters for blocking. Gasp, because no one wants to die. Weird isn't it. Double negative for the NB in my opinion.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Those of you trying to insist that nightblades are not "WoW rogues" and acting like we shouldn't expect superior or even working stealth, and such.

We have an entire skill like that is for stealth, and one for assassination. We are, and this includes the definitions for the class in previous games, a rogue-type who uses magic.

So stop acting dense.

Arsenic_Touch

It is pretty sad that the core mechanic of the class can be done equally by other classes with a potion. They seriously need to redesign shadow cloak so it's mechanic is more useful. The duration of the ability is one thing they seriously need to address.

cazlonb16_ESO

Nightblade whines are getting sillier by the day it seems.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

It is pretty sad that the core mechanic of the class can be done equally by other classes with a potion. They seriously need to redesign shadow cloak so it's mechanic is more useful. The duration of the ability is one thing they seriously need to address.

they either need to make it last a lot longer, or make it not be broken by people even breathing on you wrong.

guybrushtb16_ESO

Ridiculous comparisons don't help your point at all, if anything, they only serve for your argument to be put aside as baseless whining.. Nightblade is not a "stealth class". They have one ability that should be a short cloak and that doesn't work, which is in no way comparable to a sorc who couldn't use their 15 class skills.

Junkogen

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

It is pretty sad that the core mechanic of the class can be done equally by other classes with a potion. They seriously need to redesign shadow cloak so it's mechanic is more useful. The duration of the ability is one thing they seriously need to address.

They should have dark cloak toggle on/off and attach it to magicka or something and have it tick down like blocking or sneaking.

Blackthorn51

News flash everything about the class is stealth and assassination. Stealthy Rogue Class without Stealth is the same as a Wizard without Magic. Pretty easy comparison unless your completely dense.

Blackthorn51

Junkogen wrote: »

They should have dark cloak toggle on/off and attach it to magicka or something and have it tick down like blocking or sneaking.

Thats actually a pretty brilliant idea.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Ridiculous comparisons don't help your point at all, if anything, they only serve for your argument to be put aside as baseless whining.. Nightblade is not a "stealth class". They have one ability that should be a short cloak and that doesn't work, which is in no way comparable to a sorc who couldn't use their 15 class skills.

umm they have an entire skill line based around stealth. lol They very much are. (It's called Shadow, btw, which should be telling.)

Luvsfuzzybunnies

So a change that affected an armor type was a sorc nerf you say? Interesting.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Ridiculous comparisons don't help your point at all, if anything, they only serve for your argument to be put aside as baseless whining.. Nightblade is not a "stealth class". They have one ability that should be a short cloak and that doesn't work, which is in no way comparable to a sorc who couldn't use their 15 class skills.

I guess all those from stealth perks almost all of the abilities for nb have aren't intended to be used from stealth yeah? So the ability we have that is supposed to let us take advantage of those should easily be countered or not work seems legit.

Junkogen

Blackthorn51 wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

They should have dark cloak toggle on/off and attach it to magicka or something and have it tick down like blocking or sneaking.

Thats actually a pretty brilliant idea.

Thank you very much!

Send them in-game feedback. Maybe they'll listen some day.

Arsenic_Touch

Junkogen wrote: »

Thank you very much!

Send them in-game feedback. Maybe they'll listen some day.

/coughs

BloodStorm

I feel the NB pain, although If you want to play a real duel wield NINJA, you roll a DK scorpion Build from MK. Extended chains, igneous weapons, green dragon blood, Molten whip with inner light toggled\on bar to increase damage of extended chains, and all light armor as Altmer . Great heals and damage and keeps your apponent near you. Build is loads of fun. Also ninjas wear light armor, light armor nightblades are much better as well. Light armor will always be the best because you can spam abilities like cloak a million times.