ESO's tank problem

MrMT

I am finding it almost impossible to find veteran dungeon groups in ESO, because of a lack of tanks.

My problem is, because I am a healer and a dps. Much like everyone else - because it's the obvious combo for pvp.

By contrast, tanks don't have an obvious pvp role. They can't taunt other players, or pull off any interesting protection moves. Tanky skills are mostly stamina based, which have been weak, and heavy armor is basically the worst kind... Plus, tanks have relatively few interesting tools in their kit - compared to dps/heals - that would make someone want to be one. CC is somewhat ineffective in pvp, because of immunity.

Since most of the pve game is solo, at least til crag, that also give very little incentive to be a tank. Why would anyone be one?

This means vet dungeons take forever to form...

I hope the recent changes to stamina might help, but at the moment I feel I am missing out on a significant part of the content.

ers101284b14_ESO

I play a tank role and stamina should be low priority as a tank. We are not required to do damage like the stamina melee. We take the hits which is why it is good in both PVP and PVE. People think huge numbers matter but I have tanked many dungeons. The only hard part is that there is no aggro bar or easy way to tell if your pulling aggro. And in most dungeons there are so many mobs and adds it's hard to keep aggro on all of them. But in PVP I can block in coming attacks and take the damage so that the DPS and Healers last longer. Though I do agree that heavy armor is the worst it is for health and not stamina.

Evandus

There's been a couple of discussions surrounding this issue. I haven't tried out the new stuff so I've no idea if some of the boss mechanics have been made more tank friendly/tank necessary.

But this will be an ongoing problem by all appearances so far...

Aeratus

Just play the dungeon without a tank.

For the current vet dungeons, if your group is any good at all, it is generally more efficient for a group not to have a tank.

Vunter

"By contrast, tanks don't have an obvious pvp role."
Ah.

Natjur

No need for a tank, just 4 dps with 2 off healing.

Evandus

The fact that folks can't see the problem with excluding the tank completely is hillarious.

Erock25

Evandus wrote: »

The fact that folks can't see the problem with excluding the tank completely is hillarious.

The fact that you have pre-conceived notions about what is necessary in a group dungeon is hilarious. Tanks are needed in trials and dragonstar arena and you could honestly say trials/dragonstar are ESO's version of real group content, considering they will be releasing real raids at some point.

GoatKnuckle

Tanking in this game is pretty underwhelming. However, anyone can do it - and I do mean anyone. If you are sick of looking for tanks - just pick up Inner Beast from the Undaunted line.
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Boom. You're a tank in ESO. And that's a fact. Throw in some a survival skill to help out your healer (because without Sword N Boardin' it - you are gonna take quite a bit more damage), interrupt casts, dodge stuff that hurts, and melt faces with your dps spec.

As for tanks having no role in PvP ... well that depends. Think about it. While your taunts do absolutely nothing (like lessening the target's dps unless they are attacking you in particular - as an example) ....

You could be a harasser in big group play. Wade into a pool of people with your high defense and if you build for defense and CC ... you won't kill much ... but you can make some healer/caster's day a royal PITA.

I really do wish us meat shields had a more prominent role and that we could take off our armor in combat. It would be nice to do some old-school trolling in PUGS every now and again.

Evandus

Erock25 wrote: »

Evandus wrote: »

The fact that folks can't see the problem with excluding the tank completely is hillarious.

The fact that you have pre-conceived notions about what is necessary in a group dungeon is hilarious. Tanks are needed in trials and dragonstar arena and you could honestly say trials/dragonstar are ESO's version of real group content, considering they will be releasing real raids at some point.

Kindly inform me of what my pre-conceived are? What's hillarious is running content without a need for any kind of mitigator. DPS and occasional smart HOT's are all that's needed from level 12 to V12. In some situations that's not needed. Whereas in group centered content, 1/4 of the equation is unnecessary. Being dismissive about alienating 1/4 of a group makeup is indeed hilarious.

Incidentally, Trials/Arena should not be the only place in the game where literally one tank in a group of would be welcome. There are many other forms of group content leading up to that level.

And, if we were going by your post and taking that as fact (it isn't but let's do that anyway), what would you expect a tank to do from level 1 until trials at V12? Or perhaps Dragonstar Arena mid to late VR levels? Going by your weird assumption they should just not do anything or be welcome anywhere I guess.

If you think that only being viable in likely 5-10% of the entire game makes tanking needed or desireable... well it's interesting self centered thinking. And is likely the reason some folks would like to play them in this game, but don't.

I run a hybrid, and self heal and dps without issue. If I want to tank a dungeon, I can. If I want to dps, I can. If I want to solo, I can. Great solution for never being bored while playing. Terrible solution for group interaction in group designed content in an MMO

AssaultLemming

The last mmo I played had the taunt skill reduce damage dealt on anyone except the caster which made perfect sense. I don't think zos has thought about tanks at all in PvP...some sort of shielding ability would have been a nice touch, I.e. a way for a tank to absorb up to 50% of the damage directed at someone else....

Guppet

Anyone who has played SWTOR has seen tanks working in PVP, it can be done. If they just collide and pasted how they work there, the game would have more tanks than it knows what to do with.

Of course they need to buff tanks mitigation too. Current mitigation is rubbish, no clothie should ever come close to plate for survivability.

Audigy

The issue actually is just like in all MMOs that tanks are treated with no respect.

Its the hardest to perform role and players especially DPS don't respect players performing it.

They will just pull mobs randomly, they don't use their CC and as soon something happens the tank gets blamed.

Also to consider is that tanks are pretty much not needed anywhere except in a trial and there its usually just one.

At Vanilla WOW or TBC a tank was treated with respect, you needed them for questing, dungeon running, pvp and last but not least raids. Also at Warhammer a tank was respected as you could lower the incoming damage on your group by using skills + you were able to block in pvp.

I play a tanky char at ESO and I cant say that I feel treated respectful if I pug. Too often I must fix the stuff others messed up and this isn't why I am a tank. A tank wants to lead groups, take the big guys to protect others and not run after stuff like a mom does after her kids.

dodgehopper_ESO

I just wish Heavy Armor gave us true damage reduction, like the Nord trait (though stronger). If they did that one thing, we would see a lot more people willing to lose some of their magical prowess and actually don the warriors gear and be a tank. I for one would be really happy to see this change.

BloodStorm

Play all light armor Altmer Vampire Templar and keep up, spamming Blazing Shield. Congratulations!!! You now are a Tank. Now get out there and be somebody!!

shadowz081

For vet dungeons tanks are not needed, it can be something nice to have if the group is new, but generally not needed except in maybe certain boss fights where it is 'preferable' to have a tank.

For trash on the other hand, a dps can become a pseudo tank by going face first into a group of mob cast a couple of AoE to get aggro and hold block.

Evandus

Some of the interesting things about this is that bosses simply do not hit hard enough to be an actual danger to dps. They have dangerous AOE abilities in a lot of cases that can be mitigated with avoidance. Most boss attacks are magic based, meaning they are mitigated by spell resistance and not armor. Most bosses also don't move much, though the number of exceptions is increasing.

So a tank in this game can be attributed to simply having spell resistance, aoe damage, and a taunt. Preferably a ranged taunt so you don't have to stand toe to toe with them.

That's true that I can take my dps character and use aoe to tank mobs as long as the healer is supplementing self healing. Not hard at all. And you can easily run a dungeon with 3 dps and a healer. Or 4 dps with 2 people occasionally using resto staff abilities. I've done that a number of times while leveling my Templar and Pyromage. Yet I've been convinced for some time that the design of boss encounters in this game exclude tanks. Particularly heavy armor ones or hp builds. And I think that's a bad thing.

Cladius30

I find it kind of sad to be honest I only really enjoy playing tank likes roles, to have no fit in most groups is kind of making me want to play more solo content then group.

Evandus

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

Play all light armor Altmer Vampire Templar and keep up, spamming Blazing Shield. Congradulations!!! You now are a Tank. Now get out there and be somebody!!

What about Altmer 5Light/2Heavy Werewolf Templars? Where is the love?

PBpsy

Evandus wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

Play all light armor Altmer Vampire Templar and keep up, spamming Blazing Shield. Congradulations!!! You now are a Tank. Now get out there and be somebody!!

What about Altmer 5Light/2Heavy Werewolf Templars? Where is the love?

In this game we only like cats and bats.No doggies allowed Go away now, shoo!

AlnilamE

I've run dungeons without a tank, with a tank and with a good tank. A good tank makes a huge difference.

I started both a Templar and a DK and will experiment with tanking.

ThoradinBloodfire

Idk, in guild runsfor AA we always run a heavy armor s&b tank. Than again guild leader is 10 year wow vet. But it works. Love tanks

BBSooner

As a player who loves tanks in MMOs (especially untraditional tanks - with the exception of NIN in FFXI) it's disappointing to have obvious tank abilities that are potentially synergized with armor choices but they aren't practical for a lot of the content, namely pvp.

Elsterchen

Well, I play a simple tank with 1H-and shield, bow and well as templar abilities only. With all 3 skilllines its easy to aggro a mob, the only problem is to hold them aggro so that none of the monsters is even thinking of beating your very best buddy ... the healer! Atm I will be able to get the attention of all monsters in a room at once, but after a very short time some of them will move on to any other target available - one or two skills that affect more than one target (other than biting jabs, please!) would be perfectly suited for the task of holding the mobs aggro to me.

In groups I do have the feeling that I provide an advantage: I reduce the mobs armour, which makes them take more damage ... and this effect stacks up. I can stun one of them (at a time- up to 4 in a row) for up to 8 seconds - which leaves more time to kill those that got not stunned and provide a boost of stamina to at least one groupmember. I can taunt single targets and at the same time reduce the damage they deal (not only to me) and this affects physical and spell damage. I can push single targets away helping groupmembers to gain a better position, some time to selfheal or just letting the monster fall of some cliff, if the terrain allows that. Finally I can provide a good amount of fresh stamina and magica for my groupmembers - both urgently needed ressources. Yes, all I do does not show up in the battle-reports but that is not my fault, is it?

Well, everyone has one opinion this is mine. :-)

Draxys

AssaultLemming wrote: »

The last mmo I played had the taunt skill reduce damage dealt on anyone except the caster which made perfect sense. I don't think zos has thought about tanks at all in PvP...some sort of shielding ability would have been a nice touch, I.e. a way for a tank to absorb up to 50% of the damage directed at someone else....

There is a set that does that, 40% or so chance to intercept incoming projectiles.