Does ZOS realize bumping level cap to VR14 does nothing?

Desdemonte

Other than *** people off?

I can only see 2 scenarios:

1) Slow levellers who enjoy questing. They are probably annoyed that they were finally getting close to cap, or just reached it, and now have a huge hill to climb again.

2) Fast levellers who want to get to cap and endgame ASAP. So they head out to Craglorn and spend a day grinding until their eyes bleed.


A level cap increase doesn't add a carrot or new goal for us. It adds frustration.

Why not put some actual work into game development and figure out how to progress laterally instead of only vertically? A good start is to program end game PvE difficulty in such a way that people do not need PvP buffs to complete it? This would solve 2 problems by removing the need for PvP buff servers.

nerevarine1138

1) They reduced the amount of XP required to get from VR12 to VR14, and slow levelers don't care about that anyway.
2) Fast levelers were already doing that.

This is a stop-gap. Everyone understands this. ZO is working on a lateral system with the Champion System, and we should probably be seeing that within two updates or so. That's when this game gets more Elder Scrolls-y than ever.

Stonesthrow

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

1) They reduced the amount of XP required to get from VR12 to VR14, and slow levelers don't care about that anyway.
2) Fast levelers were already doing that.

This is a stop-gap. Everyone understands this. ZO is working on a lateral system with the Champion System, and we should probably be seeing that within two updates or so. That's when this game gets more Elder Scrolls-y than ever.

This.

Desdemonte

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

1) They reduced the amount of XP required to get from VR12 to VR14, and slow levelers don't care about that anyway.
2) Fast levelers were already doing that.

This is a stop-gap. Everyone understands this. ZO is working on a lateral system with the Champion System, and we should probably be seeing that within two updates or so. That's when this game gets more Elder Scrolls-y than ever.

1) I would disagree. I raced to cap on my main but am slowly levelling my alt. The extra 10.5 mil does not make me happy at all. It is discouraging to level an alt in this way. This is frustrating because I want to see the rest of the game I missed the first time around, which is a lot.

2) I disagree again. I grinded my main from about VR4 to cap over the course of a few days. I did VR12-13 last night in about 3 1/2 hours. The group did nothing but complain they had to do this again. I dread 13-14. Alcohol only does so much to relieve the monotony until you just turn into a zombie. There is no way I am going to do this on my alt. So once again, levelling an alt is very discouraging.

So, notice I used 2 words here that a company should not want to hear from their consumers: Frustrated and Discouraged.

But from past history, I don't think ZOS cares anyway.... Which is weird.

Vuron

I don't really agree for PvE. If all you do is PvP than I would imagine you feel an urgent need to get to VR14.

We had some guildies come back last night and we actually did some of the quests in upper Craglorn. With the complete lack of loot, gaining VP was the only real reward.

jrgray93

This is why I don't treat VRs like regular levels and I don't just grind them out. I play what content I want when I want and accept whatever VR progression that gives me.

rophez_ESO

I did a normal mode Arena with some guildies (up to stage 8.) Got me like 20% through VR12. I imagine we'll do it a few times and work on veteran mode. Should hit VR14 pretty painlessly.

Inco

Its a LEVEL GRIND.. deal with it folks. Meant to do nothing more than give folks something to do. Can't believe how many faction "Hero's" I saw from the sheer boredom folks have playing the game. Me - I'm going to just sit on VR12 and get around to it some day. No great rush, but it's annoying. Just like colors was distraction "filler" content so is this.

LonePirate

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

1) They reduced the amount of XP required to get from VR12 to VR14.

This is technically true but the reduction was small. Before 1.4, each successive VR level required 456,000 VP on top of the previous amount of VP. For instance, VR2 required 456,000 VP, VR3 required 912,000 VP and VR12 required 5,016,000 VP.

Using that same rate, VR13 should have required 5,472,000 VP while VR14 required 5,928,000 VP. ZOS cut VR13 and VR14 by 456,000 VP each as they now require 5,016,000 and 5,472,000 VP, respectively. As you can see, the reduction is relatively small one.

Audigy

I am not frustrated in any way, VR increase actually gives me new content and this is never wrong in an MMO.

I can not speak for all but I am more than tired of having nothing to do once I reached max level in other MMOs (as a non raider).

ESO is giving those like me the chance to actually improve our chars without being forced to run raids 24/7 - a good system if you ask me.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Audigy wrote: »

I am not frustrated in any way, VR increase actually gives me new content and this is never wrong in an MMO.

I can not speak for all but I am more than tired of having nothing to do once I reached max level in other MMOs (as a non raider).

ESO is giving those like me the chance to actually improve our chars without being forced to run raids 24/7 - a good system if you ask me.

This is pseudo-content at best. They could have done all of this without increasing the level cap.

It's to give a false sense of achievement and as they pretty much said, make the new trial and the dragonstar arena and such seem like meaningful accomplishments.

I would have done the dragonstar arena anyway, since they are forcing me to do it for the nirnhoned trait. Extra skyshards and skills etc would have been something for me to do, too. But I doubt most of us think grinding out another 10 million vp is anything but unpaid, menial labor.

MornaBaine

When are game developers going to learn that "just more of the same with some new animations" is not going to cut it anymore? There should be absolutely NO further updates like this and absolutely no "new" content until we get spell crafting and the justice system which is where, outside of fixing all the crap they continue to break, ALL their focus should be. There should be so many different ways to build a character that is viable that it practically shouldn't even be possible to do a "cookie cutter" build. There should be a ton of new Motifs to expand the looks of armor and further customization. There should be new quests in all the leveling zones and there should be "evil" quests for those with darker characters who would rather play villains than heroes. You should be able to level via crafting and actually PLAY A CRAFTER if you want, rather than just having crafting be something that takes time away from leveling. Give us depth and variety ZoS and quit catering to the people who are going to leave your game the second a new game comes out anyway.

Mendoze

I'm not a big fan of increasing level caps just for the sake of increasing it. To me it's just another week of pointless grinding that gives absolutely nothing in return. No new skills or points or anything really. I don't understand why that Dragon Star Arena was not balanced for VR12, or why it's rewards could not be balanced for VR12. Also it's totally mind boggling to me, that ESO still refuses to offer any kind of single player endgame content except PVP. Why there's no single player mode in the new Arena? It's 1 vs. 1, that's how real champions are made, not by ganking with superior numbers.

Kego

MornaBaine wrote: »

When are game developers going to learn that "just more of the same with some new animations" is not going to cut it anymore? There should be absolutely NO further updates like this and absolutely no "new" content until we get spell crafting and the justice system which is where, outside of fixing all the crap they continue to break, ALL their focus should be.

And that will add what? Spellcrafting sounds nice, but is only another way for introducing more Skills to our already limited Skill Bars and the Justice System can be as well nothing more than hot air.

Swampster

All adding an extra 2 VR levels has done is make earlier Craglorn stuff pretty redundant, creating a gulf between VR10 and VR12 (and soon to be VR 14) that's going to be even tougher to cross for those soloists PVE'ers out there..

Attorneyatlawl

Swampster wrote: »

All adding an extra 2 VR levels has done is make earlier Craglorn stuff pretty redundant, creating a gulf between VR10 and VR12 (and soon to be VR 14) that's going to be even tougher to cross for those soloists PVE'ers out there..

The exact same glyphs are used on every item from the entirety of VR's 10 to 14. They are the same tier, the same stat types and amounts. The only change from VR10-14 is some weapon damage rating, and a tiny amount of armor (which for most builds is far from anything anyone prioritizes). I'd actually argue that adding the extra VR's and more content is a good thing for people who hadn't gotten up in VR yet since it drove people back for a little while to the older PVE (lower Craglorn) and got them doing the newer stuff to at least see it & do it (upper Craglorn) while leveling. Most people already are VR14 at this point on their mans though just under a couple of days since the patch, and most on their alt (for those having one) as well, with how quick it is to move through the VR's.

Given the extremely minor benefits moving from VR10 to 14 I would have rather have seen the leveling for them be many times longer so it gave a small thing to see progressing as you played.

Zabus

Took 5hrs to go from v12-v14, so no it doesn't take a day of grinding till your eyes bleed.

And that's 5 hours including a 1 hour or so break I took to prep my v14 gear, and go eat.

It hardly takes anytime at all with the new grind spots. Everyone and their mom is doing shadow/thief, anomalies, burials and towers. They're overpopulated with like 3 raids competing for xp. I feel bad for those folks.

G0ku

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I would have done the dragonstar arena anyway, since they are forcing me to do it for the nirnhoned trait.

Could you explain this? I did finish the normal mode dragonstar arena yesterday, I didn´t recognise anything quoting nirnhoned trait. I also did some quests but none had to do with the new trait. Would be interesting to know what to do in the arena to get the trait.

Attorneyatlawl

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I am not frustrated in any way, VR increase actually gives me new content and this is never wrong in an MMO.

I can not speak for all but I am more than tired of having nothing to do once I reached max level in other MMOs (as a non raider).

ESO is giving those like me the chance to actually improve our chars without being forced to run raids 24/7 - a good system if you ask me.

This is pseudo-content at best. They could have done all of this without increasing the level cap.

It's to give a false sense of achievement and as they pretty much said, make the new trial and the dragonstar arena and such seem like meaningful accomplishments.

I would have done the dragonstar arena anyway, since they are forcing me to do it for the nirnhoned trait. Extra skyshards and skills etc would have been something for me to do, too. But I doubt most of us think grinding out another 10 million vp is anything but unpaid, menial labor.

They could have done no levels at all, either, for the entire game... it is content, whether you prefer it or not .

Is that such a bad thing to provide another extra reason to care about doing the new content?

I've yet to hear anyone claim you can only get nirnhoned inside of the arena, and have seen people link items they claimed were from the open world in upper craglorn that had the trait. Given the number I have seen, but that I haven't farmed one up yet personally, I can 99.9% say they come from anywhere in upper craglorn and that you aren't "forced" to do the arena if you want the nirnhoned trait (which actually would have been a great idea imo since it's all bind on equip anyway and would have given a unique thing to it as a reward, but I digress....).

Audigy

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I am not frustrated in any way, VR increase actually gives me new content and this is never wrong in an MMO.

I can not speak for all but I am more than tired of having nothing to do once I reached max level in other MMOs (as a non raider).

ESO is giving those like me the chance to actually improve our chars without being forced to run raids 24/7 - a good system if you ask me.

This is pseudo-content at best. They could have done all of this without increasing the level cap.

It's to give a false sense of achievement and as they pretty much said, make the new trial and the dragonstar arena and such seem like meaningful accomplishments.

I would have done the dragonstar arena anyway, since they are forcing me to do it for the nirnhoned trait. Extra skyshards and skills etc would have been something for me to do, too. But I doubt most of us think grinding out another 10 million vp is anything but unpaid, menial labor.

Without new levels we would need new skill lines as you said but these take a lot more time and with the current focus on raid content that time doesn't seem to be there sadly

So yes, it could be done better no doubt but at least we get something besides silly item grinds as in other MMOs.

To me and again I can only speak for myself here - seeing a bar fill up by playing what and where I want is a much bigger achievement and motivation than farming gear at the same raid or dungeon all over again.

Attorneyatlawl

Audigy wrote: »

So yes, it could be done better no doubt but at least we get something besides silly item grinds as in other MMOs.

To me and again I can only speak for myself here - seeing a bar fill up by playing what and where I want is a much bigger achievement and motivation than farming gear at the same raid or dungeon all over again.

I agree with this. It's an item gate, instead of having to go do a raid 50 times to "attune" yourself you can do any activity in the game that grants XP to do so. Win-win all around and a clever setup in my eyes.

Mondo

Im a dwarf diggin a hole...... AH wrong Song

Im a Cat diggin throw Craglorn

Diggi diggi craglorn

Dominoid

Would you rather they don't track your experience any more and therefore get no benefit for conversion when the champion system rolls out? Cause that's what you're asking for.

Phantax

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

1) They reduced the amount of XP required to get from VR12 to VR14, and slow levelers don't care about that anyway.
2) Fast levelers were already doing that.

This is a stop-gap. Everyone understands this. ZO is working on a lateral system with the Champion System, and we should probably be seeing that within two updates or so. That's when this game gets more Elder Scrolls-y than ever.

Firstly, I hate it when he says stuff I agree with !

Secondly, damn... think I must be the only person who has welcomed the level cap increase. Can't say I was overly impressed with the thought of a massive grind but at least ZOS did lower the xp needed (if only by a bit).
Bring on VR16 I say !

kitsinni

They knew that no one wanted it, people would just grind it out in a few hours at the same spot, they just didn't care that no one wanted it. It makes no difference to the game. It is just another pointless objective thrown in that you grind out at the same boring places.

I honestly think the entire point is to try to have some type of artificial gear treadmill so people log in to check their hirelings. Grind for six hours just to upgrade your gear for such a small difference you won't notice anything.

If there was one thing across the board people were asking for it was to have to grind for six hours at the same spots so that they can upgrade to the same exact sets they already had!

TehMagnus

Desdemonte wrote: »

Other than *** people off?

I can only see 2 scenarios:

1) Slow levellers who enjoy questing. They are probably annoyed that they were finally getting close to cap, or just reached it, and now have a huge hill to climb again.

2) Fast levellers who want to get to cap and endgame ASAP. So they head out to Craglorn and spend a day grinding until their eyes bleed.


A level cap increase doesn't add a carrot or new goal for us. It adds frustration.

Why not put some actual work into game development and figure out how to progress laterally instead of only vertically? A good start is to program end game PvE difficulty in such a way that people do not need PvP buffs to complete it? This would solve 2 problems by removing the need for PvP buff servers.

1) If they enjoy questing, it shouldn't bother them to quest a lil more. If I understand what those people think like, they like the game because it keeps getting more content and more things to do so they should rejoice.

2) I leveled from VR12 to VR14 in 3h (in 10 people group), could have done it in 2H on Hircine so my eyes didn't bleed from grinding but from the 7h I spent on Arena afterwards enjoying my VR14 char with slightly better stats than before thanks to the cap increase.

0 frustration, a lot of excitement. Moreover @Dominoid‌'s point is totally accurate, this will allow to keep track of advancement to get the bonuses when Champion system kicks in.

luke.glanfordrwb17_ESO

jrgray93 wrote: »

This is why I don't treat VRs like regular levels and I don't just grind them out. I play what content I want when I want and accept whatever VR progression that gives me.

Give this man a cookie. I shake my head when I see a bring group roll past me in craglorn. Such a bkre, and once they're done, they complain there is nothing else to do

kitsinni

luke.glanfordrwb17_ESO wrote: »

jrgray93 wrote: »

This is why I don't treat VRs like regular levels and I don't just grind them out. I play what content I want when I want and accept whatever VR progression that gives me.

Give this man a cookie. I shake my head when I see a bring group roll past me in craglorn. Such a bkre, and once they're done, they complain there is nothing else to do

Either that or they are PvPers that couldn't care less about doing PvE quests and just want to get these pointless levels out of the way so they can go back to doing PvP.