Healing Springs nerf - Too Far

bitaken

In a game where the time to kill is already pathetically low in PvP nerfing healers who use Healing Springs just feels like an economy spurt for potion vendors. I have never gone through so many potions as tonight. Healing springs and combat prayer are my main healing tools and using them as per the normal methodology I have been using them I hovered around 50% mana most of the night - and in heavy combat - burned the bar way too fast. Gulping potions like a champ to maintain any sort of combat momentum.

I like my healing sorc - with streak for CC - and negates to get rid of bad stuff enemy players put out. However, with this nerf to Healing springs mana regen I may be putting down the healing setup and going to the standard resto/destro build.

Unless of course this is just a way to take all that gold we are now getting and turn it into money in the pocket of alchemists.

aksyong

Time for you to DPS bit :P

Huntler

step 1: use clense
step 2: profit

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

didnt have a problem healing through the first set of new quests with a group of only 3, then again I dont rely on one heal.

Domander

You could use the other morph....

dcincali

Domander wrote: »

You could use the other morph....

The other morph is providing additional heals, not mana recovery which is what the issue is.

Rylana

Devils advocate on this one, as much as I love healing springs...

Did it ever make any sense to anyone, seriously, that using healing springs on six people along with the right cost reduction setup (seducer, etc) actually gave you a net GAIN of magicka every time you cast the spell?

I could stand on the back flag of a keep with a dozen players standing there and cast healing springs literally infinitely on my templar. Infinitely.

Did that not ever seem off to you guys?

Ezareth

bitaken wrote: »

In a game where the time to kill is already pathetically low in PvP nerfing healers who use Healing Springs just feels like an economy spurt for potion vendors. I have never gone through so many potions as tonight. Healing springs and combat prayer are my main healing tools and using them as per the normal methodology I have been using them I hovered around 50% mana most of the night - and in heavy combat - burned the bar way too fast. Gulping potions like a champ to maintain any sort of combat momentum.

I like my healing sorc - with streak for CC - and negates to get rid of bad stuff enemy players put out. However, with this nerf to Healing springs mana regen I may be putting down the healing setup and going to the standard resto/destro build.

Unless of course this is just a way to take all that gold we are now getting and turn it into money in the pocket of alchemists.

Sorry man. This thing needed nerfed bad which is why I brought it up to the Devs. Amazingly they listened on that one. It was by far the most efficient heal in the game, now people will have to learn to use it when it is needed instead of just spamming it constantly for ult and/or keeping their entire team topped off.

I used to be the only healer in a group of 4 or 5 and we'd solo keeps with only grand healing keeping us all up...and I NEVER ran out of magicka. That is absurd. Even now it is probably still too cheap.

I'm surprised that someone is actually complaining.

Domander

dcincali wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

You could use the other morph....

The other morph is providing additional heals, not mana recovery which is what the issue is.

Restoration staff heavy attack is pretty good for magicka recovery, I find the extra second on the other morph helps.

or spell symmetry

or dark exchange

thomaswinkworthb16_ESO

i thought they had nerfed it already, but they finally did i guess

bitaken

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

In a game where the time to kill is already pathetically low in PvP nerfing healers who use Healing Springs just feels like an economy spurt for potion vendors. I have never gone through so many potions as tonight. Healing springs and combat prayer are my main healing tools and using them as per the normal methodology I have been using them I hovered around 50% mana most of the night - and in heavy combat - burned the bar way too fast. Gulping potions like a champ to maintain any sort of combat momentum.

I like my healing sorc - with streak for CC - and negates to get rid of bad stuff enemy players put out. However, with this nerf to Healing springs mana regen I may be putting down the healing setup and going to the standard resto/destro build.

Unless of course this is just a way to take all that gold we are now getting and turn it into money in the pocket of alchemists.

Sorry man. This thing needed nerfed bad which is why I brought it up to the Devs. Amazingly they listened on that one. It was by far the most efficient heal in the game, now people will have to learn to use it when it is needed instead of just spamming it constantly for ult and/or keeping their entire team topped off.

I used to be the only healer in a group of 4 or 5 and we'd solo keeps with only grand healing keeping us all up...and I NEVER ran out of magicka. That is absurd. Even now it is probably still too cheap.

I'm surprised that someone is actually complaining.

On this one I will disagree. Healing springs by its nature is a powerful flag heal - and a useful "on the move heal" that does not always return magicka to the caster at all. When a group is moving thru a breach to press the enemy off the walls for example - at that point it is very difficult to get the magicka return from springs, either the new low value magicka return (3 targets?) or the older magicka return (up to 6 targets?) value from this heal.

It is a ground target spell. Not a direct heal. It still hits up to 12 targets standing on a flag. The only thing they did to it was make it less magicka efficient. Yes I have been running Seducer's and all spell cost reduction because in PvP regen is useless in my opinion. I am still running that set and watching my bar burn down because most fights are moving fights and getting even 2 targets to be inside a healing springs at the end of it - is something that is hard to do. But those tower fights, mage tower fights, flag fights and breach fights - basically keep defenses - that spell is every resto staff healers bread and butter and to gut it from an efficiency standpoint makes no sense to me.

Yes, I am still seeing 273-396 ticks off healing springs so it's still an effective heal to stack on a place where combat is going to happen - but you can forget the days of holding a breach with 2 DK's and an NB and a healing sorc against greater numbers. And in all reality - this is something that absolutely hurts the lower population alliances on specific PvP servers. Not everyone who wanted to heal rolled a templar - and now that seems to be the currentlyonly viable healing spec - and they burn thru magicka pots as it is.

So, if you are an Alchemist!! Enjoy all those PvP'ers feeding all that gold they are getting in the mail

timidobserver

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

Lfehova

timidobserver wrote: »

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

timidobserver wrote: »

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

Don't tell me you thought pve was hard, and that this nerf was game breaking. If anything this nerf adds a small challenge that healers actually have to watch resource management in trials, and now players can't just face tank boss mechanics.

Also, this is a great nerf in pvp as well. To stop the incessant mindless spamming of healing springs that most people rely on for brainless heals. Let's get back to the way a game is supposed to be, where we have to watch our resources, dodge skills, and avoid aoe circles to survive. Instead of just zergball stacking on flags and healing through damage.

Manoekin

Lfehova wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

timidobserver wrote: »

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

Don't tell me you thought pve was hard, and that this nerf was game breaking. If anything this nerf adds a small challenge that healers actually have to watch resource management in trials, and now players can't just face tank boss mechanics.

Also, this is a great nerf in pvp as well. To stop the incessant mindless spamming of healing springs that most people rely on for brainless heals. Let's get back to the way a game is supposed to be, where we have to watch our resources, dodge skills, and avoid aoe circles to survive. Instead of just zergball stacking on flags and healing through damage.

Challenge accepted.

Lava_Croft

Healing Spring is nerfed properly. I use the spell a lot and the magicka gain was ridiculous.
It just looks like too much because you probably need some time to adjust to the new situation.

Huntler

shoulda been nerfed, now it is. If you ask me it is still a bit too strong, you can still practically spam it until the end of time, its just not infinite anymore. And I say this as a healer...

Huntler

Nala_ wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

To stop the incessant mindless spamming of healing springs that most people rely on for brainless heals. Let's get back to the way a game is supposed to be, where we have to watch our resources, dodge skills, and avoid aoe circles to survive.

[...]

And 90% of zergs and bad healers. Anything to reduce their spamming of that silly ability that a monkey could do and that results in server lag/zone crash. I don't see this change actually making that big of a difference, as I said before you can still spam it practically to the end of time (the OP's claim that its hard to even just 3 people on the move is a bad joke... if you can't consistently have at least 3 people in it while on the move, stop healing... just stop...find another role). But even if it reduces it just a little bit, I'll call it a good thing.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Samadhi

So does this mean that the lag in Cyrodiil has gone down this patch due to a decrease in Healing Springs spam?

Asgari

We all know sorcs cant heal anyways ... its only for templars ...

Join the DPS side where you belong

Ezareth

bitaken wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

In a game where the time to kill is already pathetically low in PvP nerfing healers who use Healing Springs just feels like an economy spurt for potion vendors. I have never gone through so many potions as tonight. Healing springs and combat prayer are my main healing tools and using them as per the normal methodology I have been using them I hovered around 50% mana most of the night - and in heavy combat - burned the bar way too fast. Gulping potions like a champ to maintain any sort of combat momentum.

I like my healing sorc - with streak for CC - and negates to get rid of bad stuff enemy players put out. However, with this nerf to Healing springs mana regen I may be putting down the healing setup and going to the standard resto/destro build.

Unless of course this is just a way to take all that gold we are now getting and turn it into money in the pocket of alchemists.

Sorry man. This thing needed nerfed bad which is why I brought it up to the Devs. Amazingly they listened on that one. It was by far the most efficient heal in the game, now people will have to learn to use it when it is needed instead of just spamming it constantly for ult and/or keeping their entire team topped off.

I used to be the only healer in a group of 4 or 5 and we'd solo keeps with only grand healing keeping us all up...and I NEVER ran out of magicka. That is absurd. Even now it is probably still too cheap.

I'm surprised that someone is actually complaining.

On this one I will disagree. Healing springs by its nature is a powerful flag heal - and a useful "on the move heal" that does not always return magicka to the caster at all. When a group is moving thru a breach to press the enemy off the walls for example - at that point it is very difficult to get the magicka return from springs, either the new low value magicka return (3 targets?) or the older magicka return (up to 6 targets?) value from this heal.

It is a ground target spell. Not a direct heal. It still hits up to 12 targets standing on a flag. The only thing they did to it was make it less magicka efficient. Yes I have been running Seducer's and all spell cost reduction because in PvP regen is useless in my opinion. I am still running that set and watching my bar burn down because most fights are moving fights and getting even 2 targets to be inside a healing springs at the end of it - is something that is hard to do. But those tower fights, mage tower fights, flag fights and breach fights - basically keep defenses - that spell is every resto staff healers bread and butter and to gut it from an efficiency standpoint makes no sense to me.

Yes, I am still seeing 273-396 ticks off healing springs so it's still an effective heal to stack on a place where combat is going to happen - but you can forget the days of holding a breach with 2 DK's and an NB and a healing sorc against greater numbers. And in all reality - this is something that absolutely hurts the lower population alliances on specific PvP servers. Not everyone who wanted to heal rolled a templar - and now that seems to be the currentlyonly viable healing spec - and they burn thru magicka pots as it is.

So, if you are an Alchemist!! Enjoy all those PvP'ers feeding all that gold they are getting in the mail

I had a lot of fun healing as a sorc too but you have to admit the skill was mindless and skillless. I used to keep entire flag groups of NPCs up spamming this spell while a group of enemy players attacked them. All for next to no mana cost. It really doesn't change anything other than make the spell actually cost something. With 3 targets it still costs less than 100 magicka for me. That's pretty damn cheap.

Dark Exchange is your friend! 1 tick of Dark Exchange is equivalent to 3 healing springs. If you manage resources right you shouldn't need to pot while using this.

Cody

I personally thought it was ridiculous how players could Never run out of mana if used in the right circumstances. nothing wrong with forcing players to do something besides mindless spamming.

timidobserver

Lfehova wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

timidobserver wrote: »

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

Don't tell me you thought pve was hard, and that this nerf was game breaking. If anything this nerf adds a small challenge that healers actually have to watch resource management in trials, and now players can't just face tank boss mechanics.

Also, this is a great nerf in pvp as well. To stop the incessant mindless spamming of healing springs that most people rely on for brainless heals. Let's get back to the way a game is supposed to be, where we have to watch our resources, dodge skills, and avoid aoe circles to survive. Instead of just zergball stacking on flags and healing through damage.

I looked through my post 4 times and I can't find where I said that pve is hard or that the change is gamebreaking. I did say that having to deal with PvP driven balance changes in PVE is annoying. Did you quote the wrong person on mistake?

Durham

bitaken wrote: »

In a game where the time to kill is already pathetically low in PvP nerfing healers who use Healing Springs just feels like an economy spurt for potion vendors. I have never gone through so many potions as tonight. Healing springs and combat prayer are my main healing tools and using them as per the normal methodology I have been using them I hovered around 50% mana most of the night - and in heavy combat - burned the bar way too fast. Gulping potions like a champ to maintain any sort of combat momentum.

I like my healing sorc - with streak for CC - and negates to get rid of bad stuff enemy players put out. However, with this nerf to Healing springs mana regen I may be putting down the healing setup and going to the standard resto/destro build.

Unless of course this is just a way to take all that gold we are now getting and turn it into money in the pocket of alchemists.

I believe this was done to cut down server lag.. because of certain tactics

GRxKnight

Lfehova wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

timidobserver wrote: »

Kind of annoying that PvP got this skill nerfed. I have never understood why some MMOs resist just having a balance for PVE and PVP.

Don't tell me you thought pve was hard, and that this nerf was game breaking. If anything this nerf adds a small challenge that healers actually have to watch resource management in trials, and now players can't just face tank boss mechanics.

Also, this is a great nerf in pvp as well. To stop the incessant mindless spamming of healing springs that most people rely on for brainless heals. Let's get back to the way a game is supposed to be, where we have to watch our resources, dodge skills, and avoid aoe circles to survive. Instead of just zergball stacking on flags and healing through damage.

Until they nerf impulse in the ground zerg balling will still be in the game regardless of healing springs.

Or everyone can just roll DK and whenever they're low on pools they can pop ult and go back to full pools because balanced...i know this is off topic but battle roar needs to be addressed and nerfed somehow.

bitaken

FWIW - I am also seeing a LOT less ultimate generation from Healing Springs. I will see it go off for 367 X 12 players and get 3% ultimate whereas before if I was properly positioning and critical healing I would see 10-12% ultimate.

I wonder if they also cut down the ultimate generation on this ability - making the ultimate only generate on three players as well.

Stealth nerfs = bad. I am guessing they don't even realize the ultimate nerf got done if my calculations are correct. I am guessing it only gives ultimate on the mana return ~ 3 players now.

I am at times my groups only healer. With a group of 12-14 people that's a lot of pressure and while I don't mind gulping potions to keep pushing through enemy lines I wonder if they realize how large of a change something like that is. I know people were abusing spell symmetry and springs to gain ultimate - but that does not justify in my mind completely nerfing how the ultimate generation works for healing in general. Resto staff being a viable PvP healing spec was a large reason I went sorc - for utility and healing and CC.

It is not fun to find out 34 AvA ranks later that the way you built your character and team around you for success - is not as viable as it once was. Time to recruit more templars I guess.

Agrippa_Invisus

bitaken wrote: »

FWIW - I am also seeing a LOT less ultimate generation from Healing Springs. I will see it go off for 367 X 12 players and get 3% ultimate whereas before if I was properly positioning and critical healing I would see 10-12% ultimate.

I wonder if they also cut down the ultimate generation on this ability - making the ultimate only generate on three players as well.

Stealth nerfs = bad. I am guessing they don't even realize the ultimate nerf got done if my calculations are correct. I am guessing it only gives ultimate on the mana return ~ 3 players now.

I am at times my groups only healer. With a group of 12-14 people that's a lot of pressure and while I don't mind gulping potions to keep pushing through enemy lines I wonder if they realize how large of a change something like that is. I know people were abusing spell symmetry and springs to gain ultimate - but that does not justify in my mind completely nerfing how the ultimate generation works for healing in general. Resto staff being a viable PvP healing spec was a large reason I went sorc - for utility and healing and CC.

It is not fun to find out 34 AvA ranks later that the way you built your character and team around you for success - is not as viable as it once was. Time to recruit more templars I guess.

Just make Braidas be a full time healer.

Huntler

1 non templar healer for a group of 12-14 was never "built for success" against any enemy that is even partially competent. You'd be absolutely obliterated by an organized team with only that healing. Less you're all stacked standing behind a door with 5 oils.... Thats not to be mean, thats just... well game mechanics and math.


Simply put I'm happy as a clam if they nerfed ulti generation from fake healing. I did notice less ulti gen last night from rapid regen, didn't tell from springs, but I was in a dungeon so maybe it is (if so thank god nerf it into the ground so everyone except healers are using resto staffs). Nerf fake ulti gen, buff healing ulti gen back to what it was pre nerf (but only generate if it actually heals). Boom balanced ulti gen, no resto staff spamming where everyone uses it and lags the game. Healers are healers, everyone else isn't spamming.

bitaken

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

FWIW - I am also seeing a LOT less ultimate generation from Healing Springs. I will see it go off for 367 X 12 players and get 3% ultimate whereas before if I was properly positioning and critical healing I would see 10-12% ultimate.

I wonder if they also cut down the ultimate generation on this ability - making the ultimate only generate on three players as well.

Stealth nerfs = bad. I am guessing they don't even realize the ultimate nerf got done if my calculations are correct. I am guessing it only gives ultimate on the mana return ~ 3 players now.

I am at times my groups only healer. With a group of 12-14 people that's a lot of pressure and while I don't mind gulping potions to keep pushing through enemy lines I wonder if they realize how large of a change something like that is. I know people were abusing spell symmetry and springs to gain ultimate - but that does not justify in my mind completely nerfing how the ultimate generation works for healing in general. Resto staff being a viable PvP healing spec was a large reason I went sorc - for utility and healing and CC.

It is not fun to find out 34 AvA ranks later that the way you built your character and team around you for success - is not as viable as it once was. Time to recruit more templars I guess.

Just make Braidas be a full time healer.

I want what you're smoking Agrippa. Keeping him with the group is challenge enough for me thank you very much

Agrippa_Invisus

bitaken wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

FWIW - I am also seeing a LOT less ultimate generation from Healing Springs. I will see it go off for 367 X 12 players and get 3% ultimate whereas before if I was properly positioning and critical healing I would see 10-12% ultimate.

I wonder if they also cut down the ultimate generation on this ability - making the ultimate only generate on three players as well.

Stealth nerfs = bad. I am guessing they don't even realize the ultimate nerf got done if my calculations are correct. I am guessing it only gives ultimate on the mana return ~ 3 players now.

I am at times my groups only healer. With a group of 12-14 people that's a lot of pressure and while I don't mind gulping potions to keep pushing through enemy lines I wonder if they realize how large of a change something like that is. I know people were abusing spell symmetry and springs to gain ultimate - but that does not justify in my mind completely nerfing how the ultimate generation works for healing in general. Resto staff being a viable PvP healing spec was a large reason I went sorc - for utility and healing and CC.

It is not fun to find out 34 AvA ranks later that the way you built your character and team around you for success - is not as viable as it once was. Time to recruit more templars I guess.

Just make Braidas be a full time healer.

I want what you're smoking Agrippa. Keeping him with the group is challenge enough for me thank you very much

It's a great suggestion. I'm a helper!

Tankqull

Huntler wrote: »

shoulda been nerfed, now it is. If you ask me it is still a bit too strong, you can still practically spam it until the end of time, its just not infinite anymore. And I say this as a healer...

/sign
(a healer too)

Braidas

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

FWIW - I am also seeing a LOT less ultimate generation from Healing Springs. I will see it go off for 367 X 12 players and get 3% ultimate whereas before if I was properly positioning and critical healing I would see 10-12% ultimate.

I wonder if they also cut down the ultimate generation on this ability - making the ultimate only generate on three players as well.

Stealth nerfs = bad. I am guessing they don't even realize the ultimate nerf got done if my calculations are correct. I am guessing it only gives ultimate on the mana return ~ 3 players now.

I am at times my groups only healer. With a group of 12-14 people that's a lot of pressure and while I don't mind gulping potions to keep pushing through enemy lines I wonder if they realize how large of a change something like that is. I know people were abusing spell symmetry and springs to gain ultimate - but that does not justify in my mind completely nerfing how the ultimate generation works for healing in general. Resto staff being a viable PvP healing spec was a large reason I went sorc - for utility and healing and CC.

It is not fun to find out 34 AvA ranks later that the way you built your character and team around you for success - is not as viable as it once was. Time to recruit more templars I guess.

Just make Braidas be a full time healer.

tis true BRAIDAS could support an army with his heals, but his wrath cannot be contained - his bloodlust must be satisfied with the piled corpses of his fallen adversaries