Shield....WTF

Koopest

i think holding block up should reduce stamina regen like when sprinting or reduce stamina regen to 0 regen like when sneaking. and heavy armor should have a perk which removes stamina disadvantage while holding block.

Stratti

I once saw a dk take on a Zerg of 25 holding block and casting shields. He then lol at me and took off into the sky quick as a bullet . It was then that I realised eric from true blood plays a dk vamp

Nerf it please

Rune_Relic

Every time you block and move you suck stamina.
Every time you block and take damage you suck stamina.
When there is no stamina block fails.

Just wear down there stamina....simple as that.

At the end of the day the point of blocking is well you guessed it ...to block damage.

Crowzer

Suntzu1414 wrote: »

for NB just use Shades.
sit back and wait for them to run out of stam...

Only work if the target is not hidden. Even with the mark, shades don't attack the target.

drogon1 wrote: »

...
As for dks, they've been nerfed repeatedly. They remain a strong class in PvP, but they are far from god-mode.

Still on the top.

Synozeer

Stratti wrote: »

I once saw a dk take on a Zerg of 25 holding block and casting shields. He then lol at me and took off into the sky quick as a bullet . It was then that I realised eric from true blood plays a dk vamp

Nerf it please

It's because Eric is Nordic and gets that OP damage reduction racial.

Epsilon_Echo

The number of skilled tanks I have torn in half like a dry noodle pack numbers in the 100s if not more. Just run them out of stamina. Blocking is a defensive tactical move just like anything else with its own downsides and upsides. It doubles as a psychological move when someone who THINKS they are a good DPS does a full rotation with little to no damage and then looses their cool thinking their opponent is OP instead of gauging the situation and making the tactical choice to attack their opponents resource pools instead of just throwing DPS around like dirty laundry.

Its a game, and if you think blocking is OP then you're the one getting played.

eliisra

Stories about immortal DK's...I suspect they weren't alone. Probably had pocket-Templars hiding nearby, feeding them heals and stamina.

DK's have great synergy with block, they also have superior tools to get resources back in PvP and especially stamina. But they can't block and heal forever against multiple opponents, not solo.

Use Caltrops. Blocking in a caltrops field drains stamina every second. They will have to lower shield and walk out of it. I believe the NB shade eats stamina to.

Also there's loads of skills you cant mitigate with block. The main killer is direct AoE, like Impulse. Another reason we see blobs/trains spamming instant PBAoE in PvP. There's no way to mitigate the damage, blocking doesn't work. Reflect doesn't work. This while a single target spell projectile, arrow or mele attack, deals close to no dmg against a blocking target.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

Magdalina wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

They just need to fix block casting. Blocking should make your skillbar turn grey and skills be unusable until you release the block button. After using any attack or skill, there should be a window before you are allowed to block again (even if its half a second, just not instant/nonstop like it is now).

That'd probably murder tanks in PvE. And that'd literally murder some of them in vet dungeons.

I don't do PvP, I suck at it so can't judge. However, even if something needs balancing, they should be VERY careful balancing smth in PvP so it doesn't ruin the game in PvE.

I disagree - I'm a healer and dps - I've pugged some of the worst tanks you'll ever see, and even in light/medium armor I only truly need to block when I'm catching a full pull of aggro or there's a heavy attack coming right for me. With that in mind I don't see an issue with being able to use SOME spells while blocking (see dragons blood - rune focus, circle of protection and any other PURELY defensive spells). Thing is a tank doesn't need to be casting anything other than taunts cc and defensive spells. I can assure you that even in CoH vet that a DK tank could stop blocking for one moment to use talons/dragon standard/molten armor.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

They need to make it so Heavy weapon attacks break block

COME AGAIN GOOD SIR? I hope you know that in this elderscrolls title that blocking is what counters heavy attacks and not the other way around! - No, if they were to implement a 'counter to blocking' mechanic it should be in the form of 'This ability breaks blocks and does extra damage to blocking targets' that are worthless on everything else and even then shouldn't exist!

Really the only problem with blocking is the ability to block+cast, and even then it's not TOO huge a problem.

Metalxead

Need nerf outgoin dmg while use 1h+shield (so u not hurt PVE Tankin at all).
Nowdays 1h+shield all around, coz it unbalanced and OP in PvP.
While blockin you can't be critted, you are almost immune for any hard CC (only fear work?), your are almost immune to negative effect.

This stuff not require any skill, just hold block and spam your dmg ability's that all! No need smart blockin, no need to use immovable even, no need worry about some negative effect, no need impenetrable even, plus you take "literally no damage" (c)!

Also stamina drained no fast even in light armor, (we not talk about 1vs100500 hostiles) keep this block not so expensive (stamina wise) if u comapre with keep immovable up.

TL;DR
1h+shield blockin OP, to many bonuses, almost no weaknesses, need nerf outcome DMG (20-30%) so you need chose - *Be agressive or not to be Agressive* (c)

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

Blocking only drains Stamina by 1% per hit?

LOL.

Blocking costs 200+ Stamina. 150 with a Shield roughly.
Normal Stamina-pool of a Dark-Elf-DK is about 1500 with purple Buffood, so it takes you 10 attacks to burn through his Stamina, maybe 15 attacks with Regeneration, but don't forget that he'll also probably charge at least 1-2 times draining more of his Stamina.

Stop spreading idiocy like "oh, DK had 10 people on him and fought them for 2 minutes without dying, after that he walked through tons of oils in a keep and me and my 4 friends were on him too the whole time, came out alive at 100%" .

If you cannot kill 1 DK with 5 people it's simply because you're really bad, if someone walks through Oil, it's because someone in his group purged and healed him, and 1 DK surviving the attack of 10 people, well, guess what.

TheBull

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

They need to make it so Heavy weapon attacks break block

Agree, it would be nice to have a block break skill. As of right now there is no skill in block, no decisions to make. Just hold and use instacast.

FreedomDude

DDuke wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Because the idea is that you're in defensive mode, and just because they don't have an animation of the Shield bearer pivoting to block rearward attacks, I think that is the intended idea. Holding block is meant to represent defensive mode, and actively using your shield as opposed to passive use. It sucks up your stamina every time you're hit, so there's the balance. Seriously, don't hate on tanks, just because you ran into an Emperor one time with batswarm or standard or Blazing or the like.

Oh, I don't. I use block often myself in PvP also.

However, I think it'd promote more skill based (and realistic) gameplay (both in PvP and PvE) if block was directional.

If block would become directional, I would like the the timings fixed for it to. Too many times I see an NPC about to swing their sword which I quickly block just before I'm hit yet it doesn't count...

Orchish

Sav72 wrote: »

Right now 6 of us was attacking one, I repeat one , #1... DK with shield (of course) took us forever to kill him after he killed 3 group members.

Getting tired of this.

Same can be done with the other 3 classes. Especially Templars. I'll tell you what's really getting tiring about PvP, the players constantly crying.

tordr86b16_ESO

Orchish wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Right now 6 of us was attacking one, I repeat one , #1... DK with shield (of course) took us forever to kill him after he killed 3 group members.

Getting tired of this.

Same can be done with the other 3 classes. Especially Templars. I'll tell you what's really getting tiring about PvP, the players constantly crying.

Yes, yes and YES! =_=

Everyone seems to get in a fit as soon they get killed by X class and then storm to the forums and cry wolf.

Super_Sonico

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Every time you block and move you suck stamina.
Every time you block and take damage you suck stamina.
When there is no stamina block fails.

Just wear down there stamina....simple as that.

At the end of the day the point of blocking is well you guessed it ...to block damage.

With block casting that's not completely true. Plus, some classes have no skills that target stamina. (If we do, the skill description doesn't tell us, so how do we know?) I'm 99.9% sure that my build has zero target to stamina.

Attorneyatlawl

Magdalina wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

They just need to fix block casting. Blocking should make your skillbar turn grey and skills be unusable until you release the block button. After using any attack or skill, there should be a window before you are allowed to block again (even if its half a second, just not instant/nonstop like it is now).

That'd probably murder tanks in PvE. And that'd literally murder some of them in vet dungeons.

I don't do PvP, I suck at it so can't judge. However, even if something needs balancing, they should be VERY careful balancing smth in PvP so it doesn't ruin the game in PvE.

It would also be unfair in pvp, frankly. Blocking already snares you greatly, forces you to lose stamina rapidly on a per-hit basis, disables light/heavy attacks, and disables sprinting. It would mess up both pve and pvp to do that.

glak

TheBull wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

They need to make it so Heavy weapon attacks break block

Agree, it would be nice to have a block break skill. As of right now there is no skill in block, no decisions to make. Just hold and use instacast.

A case for spear weapons: include an unblockable ability that when used on a player or enemy, applies a status to substantially increase the cost to block for a few seconds. Bosses could use it on tanks, too, to make purge more important in PvE. Spears could be the anti-blocking equivalent of how fighters guild abilities work against daedra, undead, and werewolves.

TheBull

glak wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

They need to make it so Heavy weapon attacks break block

Agree, it would be nice to have a block break skill. As of right now there is no skill in block, no decisions to make. Just hold and use instacast.

A case for spear weapons: include an unblockable ability that when used on a player or enemy, applies a status to substantially increase the cost to block for a few seconds. Bosses could use it on tanks, too, to make purge more important in PvE. Spears could be the anti-blocking equivalent of how fighters guild abilities work against daedra, undead, and werewolves.

I played a game called Age of Wushu. Very similar combat mechanics to ESO. There was a block button and block endurance. There were two ways to break block -
1st - Were down the block similar to ESO.

2nd- Every skill line had a block breaker. If someone was just holding block the attacker could exploit this by block breaking. When block was broken in this manner, the defender could not block for 4 seconds.

This system added an element of skill, baiting and anticipation.

Natjur

AOE can not be blocked, so just switch to an AOE, even better drop Razor Caltrops and watch his stamina disappear in 3 seconds and then kill them.

The counter to block is area effect attacks.

DK with Magma Armor (and its mophs) which caps damage at 3% max health is the most annoying as that means a min of 34 attacks have to hit before they are dead. If they add a debuff spell, which strips a player of all buffs for 4 seconds.... Now that would rock (block is a buff btw)

Tigeracer

Everyone can break block. Volcanic rune sends anyone sky high, so it's good for a block break and a laugh. If they are using immovable, then they are already lower on stamina.
People saying that they don't have an ability that targets stamina is just a confusion with shades. Shades don't target stamina, but they work as a normal player attacking a blocking target (ie. blocking attacks wastes stamina).
I am a nightblade tank and if any of you have played with me you will know just how awesome of a tank I am, but I get murdered in PVP all the time to people who know how to play properly.
Caltrops by the way is not as powerful against blocking as some of you seem to think either. It does drain stamina a little faster, but it's not so bad for me.
Also, to those people saying that it costs a lot to block and laughing at those who say stamina only goes down 1%, you're both kinda wrong. I only have 1500 stam (with food) and my stamina doesn't go down very fast at all, unless I have to roll dodge or break free. Maybe not as small as 1%, but no more than 5% at most. This is because I wear 7 heavy and use 1h and shield, with absorb magic on my bar (for lower block cost).
All of that together gives me 20% bracing (heavy armour passive), 30% fortress (1h+s passive) and 8% absorb magic (1h+s ability) = 58% lower stamina cost for blocking.

Lionxoft

Tigeracer wrote: »

Everyone can break block. Volcanic rune sends anyone sky high, so it's good for a block break and a laugh.

Can't you block through rune? I've never seen one I can't block through.

#BlockLyfe24/7 heh heh heh.

Spam light attacks and drain their stam. Their one dimensional defense will fail and ultimately they will lose.

Forestd16b14_ESO

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

They need to make it so Heavy weapon attacks break block

Like in skyrim?

Forestd16b14_ESO

So I take it I am the ONLY DK tank on nirn who doesn't use a shield and uses a great sword to tank with.

Aoife32001

While making blocking directional for "realism's" sake seems good on the surface, the problem is that nothing else is realistic about PvP. If some guy can jump over my head and hit me from behind, or even better yet, walk through me... yeah.

As has already noted anyway, (1) damage shields are magical in nature and hence would have 360 degree coverage and (2) one-hand and shield use implies, when blocking, a defensive posture that would involve the player being able to move the shield on his arm to block blows from the sides/top/rear as well as to the front.

Perhaps a good compromise would make block % based depending on the angle of attack: 100% of the time from the front, 80% from the sides, and 50% from the rear.

Or they could leave it alone and allow tanks to be tanks. It gives DPS builds something to have to work to overcome.

I'm all for realism in PvP, but given the limitations of a game environment, some concessions against realism are necessary.

Hypertionb14_ESO

my fav anti blocking methoid is using AOE.

on my sorc, Restraining Prison, Elemental Blockade, Lightning Flood, Pulsar.

also, my overload and Crystal Blast still hits for around 500 Damage through even DK blocking. Most shield lovers just dont have any real way to cope with that if you are good at ranged combat.

Xsorus

dgoss11b14_ESO wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Because the idea is that you're in defensive mode, and just because they don't have an animation of the Shield bearer pivoting to block rearward attacks, I think that is the intended idea. Holding block is meant to represent defensive mode, and actively using your shield as opposed to passive use. It sucks up your stamina every time you're hit, so there's the balance. Seriously, don't hate on tanks, just because you ran into an Emperor one time with batswarm or standard or Blazing or the like.

Sorry but if blocking dropped stamina more than 1% per block, then maybe i'd agree with you, but as it is now anyone can block nearly forever. Not to mention there isn't much difference between blocking with a shield and with a stick in this game, so there's that too.

.......So much is wrong in this post...I can't even bold specific parts of it to say this is wrong.

Xsorus

Super_Sonico wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Every time you block and move you suck stamina.
Every time you block and take damage you suck stamina.
When there is no stamina block fails.

Just wear down there stamina....simple as that.

At the end of the day the point of blocking is well you guessed it ...to block damage.

With block casting that's not completely true. Plus, some classes have no skills that target stamina. (If we do, the skill description doesn't tell us, so how do we know?) I'm 99.9% sure that my build has zero target to stamina.

I'm 99.9% sure after reading this post you're not completely sure how blocking actually works in this game.

Metalxead

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

my fav anti blocking methoid is using AOE.

on my sorc, Restraining Prison, Elemental Blockade, Lightning Flood, Pulsar.

also, my overload and Crystal Blast still hits for around 500 Damage through even DK blocking. Most shield lovers just dont have any real way to cope with that if you are good at ranged combat.

Not recource efficent at all, you mana drain to 0 faster than you deal even 1500~dmg so all who says "Just AOE them" are completly of mark here.

So for light attack spam, you die faster than shield wielder drop even to a 30% stam, coz you are cornered to light attacks, if u spam skills you recorces drop to 0 and you die again. With two glyps for reduce block (yes u must use this), you block capacity are skyrocket.. (spell dmg you can obtain from single neck + item set like cyrodiil light rings...

Constant blockin with 1h-shield is too powerful recource wise, with only little penalties, so ZOS need make bigger penalties for DMG outcome to compensate this.
While switch to 1h+shield in combat you can make some CC's, Buf's, Debuf's, Heal's, survive burst or tunneling, but you not suppouse deal almost a same dmg as weapon weilder...

This game more like war of attrition than one shot fest (and i like it).

guybrushtb16_ESO

IMO, nobrainer decisions as in "just hold block while spamming abilities as a default mode" are not really good design, because as soon as something is so permanent like that, it's practically redundant as a gameplay element.

Blocking itself is fine, but there should be more counters to it. There should be stuff you want and don't want to block, and likewise, a way for the attacker to punish overusing blocking.