How to make stamina builds equal magicka builds. First part of the solution.

Kos

Rename magicka to something like 'Power','Motivation' or whatever the case may be - and all skills - regardless if they are magic or melee - use the same pool. Stamina pool would then be used solely for dodge/escape etc.

Draxuul

Things like these have been discussed many times .

You can`t change the way things work however you want . This is elder scrolls, not just some no name mmo, made by some no name developer who just wanted to give it a shot at creating their own little universe so they could get a piece of the pie.

It`s an Elder Scrolls game and things have to work the same way or at least very close to the way that they work in other Elder Scrolls games.

Draxuul

Kos

Draxuul wrote: »

Things like these have been discussed many times .

You can`t change the way things work however you want . This is elder scrolls, not just some no name mmo, made by some no name developer who just wanted to give it a shot at creating their own little universe so they could get a piece of the pie.

It`s an Elder Scrolls game and things have to work the same way or at least very close to the way that they work in other Elder Scrolls games.

Draxuul

I respectfully disagree - follow this link and you will see there were many differences between versions of ES games before:
- http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Differences_Between_Morrowind,_Oblivion,_and_Skyrim

Just one example from a lengthy list found there:

"Effects of Armor and Fatigue:
Morrowind: The chances of successfully casting a spell are decreased as fatigue decreases.
Oblivion:Spell effectiveness is decreased by worn armor. The higher your armor skill and the fewer pieces of armor you wear, the less effect your armor has on magic.
Skyrim:Neither stamina nor armor weight has any effect on spellcasting. There is an Alteration perk which makes defensive spells become stronger if the caster is not wearing any armor."

tehsa

Still, there are those 3 base resources you have to deal with, no matter the game. At least since TESIII you always had Health, Magicka and Stamina. (edit: the bar later to be known as "stamina bar" was called "fatigue" in Morrowind)
How they interact with each other and various skills is a whole other matter.

What you demanded in your first post however was renaming magicka, which has been a resource name (used for variouse usable spells) in TES games for a while now.

As for their (altered) interaction with spell effectiveness: sure, why not, I'm all in for interesting interdependencies that make sense.


On a side note: does anyone know by now how exactly damage values are calculated?

CapuchinSeven

The first step is to make sure that stamina can be restored as easily and quickly as magicka that's to regen and mages guild abilities. They have to (and are) start there, everything else after that is just slight adjustments.

Head.hunter

I don't think it could ever be equal as it always needs to be spent for dodge/ break out of cc, but apparently 2h is getting stam costs reduced, so they are taking some steps in the right direction. I'd say that maybe the repercussions of balancing stam make it difficult for them to just buff anything we ask for. They buffed heavy armor stam regen as well, all we need is weapon skills to be enhanced next.

yiasemi

Who needs stamina? Get a senche tiger mount and your need to run anywhere or dodge anything just vanished. Ride like He Man into the nearest player with all those pesky enemies chasing you. Don't forget a cheery rawr.
Answer to your prayers. It is Fallout Boy writing these press releases,isn't it?

GnatB

Pretty sure *all* the ES games had 3 resources, not just the last 3 (or 4?).

Just that in the first ones there was no dodge roll silliness (seriously, really would like to go back in time and punch whoever it was that first put the "dodge roll" into an action game as a viable evasive manuever (particularly for melee).) or cc breaks.

kitsinni

Draxuul wrote: »

Things like these have been discussed many times .

You can`t change the way things work however you want . This is elder scrolls, not just some no name mmo, made by some no name developer who just wanted to give it a shot at creating their own little universe so they could get a piece of the pie.

It`s an Elder Scrolls game and things have to work the same way or at least very close to the way that they work in other Elder Scrolls games.

Draxuul

Why because we can't go against the long history of Elder Scrolls MMO's standards? There is so much in this game that doesn't work the way Elder Scrolls games have worked before.

Kos

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

The first step is to make sure that stamina can be restored as easily and quickly as magicka that's to regen and mages guild abilities. They have to (and are) start there, everything else after that is just slight adjustments.

What I suggest is to merge them into one - no need to adjust stamina to match magicka. There is one stat. Isn't it simpler? I mean stamina stays but only for roll dodge or blocks, all other abilities use that one merged stat.

jelliedsoup

Kos wrote: »

Rename magicka to something like 'Power','Motivation' or whatever the case may be - and all skills - regardless if they are magic or melee - use the same pool. Stamina pool would then be used solely for dodge/escape etc.

First part of the solution is for zos to begin thinking about it.

Kos

kitsinni wrote: »

Why because we can't go against the long history of Elder Scrolls MMO's standards? There is so much in this game that doesn't work the way Elder Scrolls games have worked before.

Exactly.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Kos wrote: »

Rename magicka to something like 'Power','Motivation' or whatever the case may be - and all skills - regardless if they are magic or melee - use the same pool. Stamina pool would then be used solely for dodge/escape etc.

First part of the solution is for zos to begin thinking about it.

They could at least test it, it would be great.

tehsa wrote: »

Still, there are those 3 base resources you have to deal with, no matter the game. At least since TESIII you always had Health, Magicka and Stamina. (edit: the bar later to be known as "stamina bar" was called "fatigue" in Morrowind)
How they interact with each other and various skills is a whole other matter.

What you demanded in your first post however was renaming magicka, which has been a resource name (used for variouse usable spells) in TES games for a while now.

And there would still be 3 resources. As you say - fatigue was renamed to stamina, why can't magicka be renamed? Imagine each skill taking up some of you 'Inspiration', no matter if the skill causes freezing or bleeding. Why does it matter which of those effects is magical? What really matters is how much damage it causes and how quickly it can be re-used.

dodgehopper_ESO

In general the Stamina costs of abilities are way too high, given they come from a shared pool, that is out of class for pretty much everyone, and needed by everyone for survivability & mobility purposes. I think at the root that's the biggest part of the problem. Why should Silver Bolts cost more than almost any magicka based ability out there? Its completely backwards. Stamina-based abilities should be cheaper than Magicka ones. I really think that might be all that's needed to tip the balance. How much cheaper, well that probably involves Optimization analysis a little more complicated than I'm willing to do to be accurate, but I think it would be a start there.

AshySamurai

My first thought was "No way! This would be not an Elder Scrolls world". But then I remembered, that in Oblivion we had athletics and even jump was cost stamina. Also swinging your sword was cost stamina(heavy attacks), so if weapon skills cost stamina - it's ok for me. Sprint/dodge/block in ES games always spent stamina, and it's ok for me too. So, for now, I think "No way! This would be not an Elder Scrolls world".

Ninnghizhidda

Kos wrote: »

I respectfully disagree - follow this link and you will see there were many differences between versions of ES games before:
- http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Differences_Between_Morrowind,_Oblivion,_and_Skyrim

Just one example from a lengthy list found there:

"Effects of Armor and Fatigue:
Morrowind: The chances of successfully casting a spell are decreased as fatigue decreases.
Oblivion:Spell effectiveness is decreased by worn armor. The higher your armor skill and the fewer pieces of armor you wear, the less effect your armor has on magic.
Skyrim:Neither stamina nor armor weight has any effect on spellcasting. There is an Alteration perk which makes defensive spells become stronger if the caster is not wearing any armor."

A fine example of how things were (and worked) in the original and acclaimed (and true) Elder Scrolls games.

Where you could actually "play as you like" and build and mix and match your very own character, and enjoy the game. Where "magick" was clearly defined and where "skills" were also many and you were free to choose and advance them, without necessarily making your character a "mage".

That tradition (that worked) was butchered so we could have ESO. So now, we will have to wait for a few dozen Updates until, just maybe, they manage to get it right, somehow. Best of luck, to all of you (us) brave enough to be "patient" and stoic through the process (and pay for it handsomely).

Lizelle

You can't have the game be this unbalanced for Melee vs Caster builds just because it suites the lore... All other TES games have been single player... guess what? That changes things, a LOT! To keep the game broken for the sake of lore would be a grave mistake. Because you actually have to play your character longer than it will take you to get through the lore and story.... This is an MMO... That's how they work.