Can someone explain the perma-stun PVP exploit?

Phinix1

I first saw this watching Arcanus PVP livestream on twitch, but lately I have been seeing it more and more.

Basically, with a full stamina bar, and Immovable up, you can still get permanently stunned (for > 10sec) and the normal break free will not work to get you out of it.

It has to be an exploit, because even if Immovable was just broken, which we all know it is, you should still be able to break free with a full stamina bar.

Francescolg

The problem is that most gamers believe that "break free" should always help vs. "hard CC", unfortunately, it does not ...also the 15seconds CC-immunity... got it? Ty Zenimax! Time for fix! (beside that: some are considered temporary bugs..)

Beside those "buuugs" there are a 100 sub-categories of "not-hard CC" just for the purpose not to make the CC-System understandable.. ! Some are unbreakable, some are purgeable, some not, some do not grant CC-immunity afterwards, some do, some can be applied over and over again,.. etc. etc. that is called "game design".. happy studying!

kitsinni

This game is extremely picky with what they consider a "CC". For example you would think burning talons is a CC, but since you can cast during it the game doesn't consider it a CC. So even when you dodge roll out of it they can instantly recast it. I don't think a knockdown is considered a CC either since you can just get back up.

So if you do a charge that knocks you down and instantly throw down burning talons you are actually held in place while still on the ground and can't dodge roll out because you are not standing but neither are CC's so they can be repeated.

I believe there are other combinations that can do it also.

Phinix1

Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oMCHmPHp0U

He explains it really well. There are basically two types of CC: "Hard CC" and "Soft CC." The Hard CC is the stuff that you have to use break free to get out of, and SHOULD give your the 5sec CC invulnerability. The Soft CC is stuff like Immobilize that you have to roll to escape, and for which there is NO CC IMMUNITY.

Hard CC:

• Stun
• Knockdown
• Knockback/Pull
• Disoriented
• Fear

Soft CC:

• Immobilize
• Snare

This MUST be an exploit, because my character was NOT able to cast. They were on the ground on their back doing the swimming animation, unable to cast, unable to use breakfree, or do anything, for nearly 10sec.

TehMagnus

But when you break from a Hard CC and gain immunity, you also are immune to soft CC no?

kitsinni

magnusnet wrote: »

But when you break from a Hard CC and gain immunity, you also are immune to soft CC no?

I don't think there is any immunity to soft CC at all. I have been put in burning talons four times in a row by the same DK after dodge rolling out of every one.

Phinix1

Nope. Nothing makes you immune to soft CC except (maybe) blocking, depending on the skill. But I think the only soft CC you can block are single target abilities like Nightblade's Crippling Grasp.

kitsinni

I don't think you can block through burning talons either. You can block through NB's fear, and even through volcanic runes.

JoffyToffy69

Just wondering does 'perma-stun' mean permanently? Or is it in reference to a character?

onlinegamer1

There is some bug/exploit which makes you unable to get out of either hard or soft CC (unable to Break Free *and* unable to roll dodge).

The most frequent occurrence of this is a charge (Invasion/Critical Rush/Focused Charge) followed by a root (Talons/Shattering Prison).

JoffyToffy69

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

There is some bug/exploit which makes you unable to get out of either hard or soft CC (unable to Break Free *and* unable to roll dodge).

The most frequent occurrence of this is a charge (Invasion/Critical Rush/Focused Charge) followed by a root (Talons/Shattering Prison).

That's happened to me heaps, I just put it down to being 'violated' by a small group, or lag preventing me from escape. I'll be more aware of this exploit now

CapuchinSeven

kitsinni wrote: »

I don't think you can block through burning talons either. You can block through NB's fear, and even through volcanic runes.

NB fear is THE block remover and I use it constantly. Not sure why you think you can block it?

Lordballak69

I am so glad this was posted. I have been playing in PVP since beta and lately i have been slamming my mouse down and throwing my headset due to all the bugs that are just stupid. Having a FULL stamina bar, Holding block before battle.. and still taking FULL damage from players is seriously gotten me to the point where i don't even feel like logging in. I keep checking daily for the update or at least maintenance (I see it will be tomorrow) to at least pretend to fix these types of issues.

GnatB

Curiously, in PvE last night I encountered some sort of bug that prevented me from being able to attack for at least 15 seconds, maybe 30. Not sure how reproduceable it was, got hit by some sort of ice spell mid flurry (I think) Move at maybe half speed, could block, but nothing else would activate. No light/heavy, no skills. No break. AFAIK there's no status condition that's *supposed* to do that. (IIRC it actually started with my attacks visually firing but no damage being done, at first thought it was some wierd disconnect, but the enemy kept hitting me, and then could no longer fight back)

(P.S. in retrospect, probably could have tried switching to 3rd person, I know there's a bug where if you get dismounted in first the animation locks and you're stuck completely defenseless, unless you switch to 3rd. Maybe this was somehow the same thing, though since I could block, the animation wasn't *completely* locked)

Yusuf

magnusnet wrote: »

But when you break from a Hard CC and gain immunity, you also are immune to soft CC no?

retreating maneuver, don't attack anything until you're willing to take risk of being CC'd

kitsinni

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I don't think you can block through burning talons either. You can block through NB's fear, and even through volcanic runes.

NB fear is THE block remover and I use it constantly. Not sure why you think you can block it?

If you hold block through the entire duration you don't get feared unless they fixed it.

seneferab16_ESO

Permastun exploit is when someone uses a combination of different CC abilities to create an unbreakable CC. I am not going to tell you how to do it, but it is pretty easy to do if you know how (unless something changed recently, I haven't been very active the last weeks) and therefor plenty of bads are using it in Cyrodiil.

TehMagnus

kitsinni wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

But when you break from a Hard CC and gain immunity, you also are immune to soft CC no?

I don't think there is any immunity to soft CC at all. I have been put in burning talons four times in a row by the same DK after dodge rolling out of every one.

Well I usually do an invasion, people "bash" out of it to stand up, and then i use burning talons. I see them appear under the player but he can keep moving as if the soft CC had never stopped him. Same thing with vampires under ult, i usually use burning talons because it allows me to track them in their ultimate but even though I see the talons rise, the vampire keeps moving ...

I supposed the CC immunity also worked on soft CC since i usually engage with Invasion. Unless immovable doesn't let soft CC root you.

kitsinni

magnusnet wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

But when you break from a Hard CC and gain immunity, you also are immune to soft CC no?

I don't think there is any immunity to soft CC at all. I have been put in burning talons four times in a row by the same DK after dodge rolling out of every one.

Well I usually do an invasion, people "bash" out of it to stand up, and then i use burning talons. I see them appear under the player but he can keep moving as if the soft CC had never stopped him. Same thing with vampires under ult, i usually use burning talons because it allows me to track them in their ultimate but even though I see the talons rise, the vampire keeps moving ...

I supposed the CC immunity also worked on soft CC since i usually engage with Invasion. Unless immovable doesn't let soft CC root you.

I know immovable doesn't do anything against talons I'm not 100% sure if you broke a "hard CC" if you are immune to soft CC I would have to test that. I have never managed to be immune to talons ever, but I will try to test it when I get a chance.

aclarkob14_ESO

Being knocked off your horse is an unbreakable CC, I rarely see it mentioned in threads about this.

Rune_Relic

I also assume cc can stack...if you study the evasion skill on the medium amrour...
...Removes 1 snare for each piece of medium armor equipped

Mannimarco would hit me with something I couldnt left+right or dodge roll out of. But firing evasion kept me free. Stamina build.

Perhaps see if evasion works ?

c0rp

If you dont know what the OP is talking about, why are you posting in this thread like hes making things up? Lol. It has nothing to do with what is hard vs soft cc and immunity.

Yes, there is a pvp exploit that causes you to be perm cc'd. You cannot cast, you cannot move, you cannot do anything except stand and die. I see DKs in cyrodiil who use it every time. I am not going to tell you how to do it, but it involves combining different forms of cc. ZoS knows how it happens...they are just unable to fix it.

Nicko_Lps

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

I don't think you can block through burning talons either. You can block through NB's fear, and even through volcanic runes.

NB fear is THE block remover and I use it constantly. Not sure why you think you can block it?

You cant block it and thats a bug,its hard Cc and that needs to be fixed.All hard cc are bloked except fear.
Its not a block remover cause i still hold my block while infected by it.

sagitter

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oMCHmPHp0U

He explains it really well. There are basically two types of CC: "Hard CC" and "Soft CC." The Hard CC is the stuff that you have to use break free to get out of, and SHOULD give your the 5sec CC invulnerability. The Soft CC is stuff like Immobilize that you have to roll to escape, and for which there is NO CC IMMUNITY.

Hard CC:

• Stun
• Knockdown
• Knockback/Pull
• Disoriented
• Fear

Soft CC:

• Immobilize
• Snare

This MUST be an exploit, because my character was NOT able to cast. They were on the ground on their back doing the swimming animation, unable to cast, unable to use breakfree, or do anything, for nearly 10sec.

From patch notes 1.3.3
Immunity granted by break free and the immunity given to you after you're hit by a crowd control ability now provide immunity to all types of crowd control.

This should mean that even to a soft cc like talons, is granted a form of cc immunity , unless it is not considered a cc.

Jaxsun

JoffyToffy69 wrote: »

Just wondering does 'perma-stun' mean permanently? Or is it in reference to a character?

Perma-stun is a term used to describe being stunned repeatedly until death, when one stun wears off another is immediately applied not allowing you to attack or heal. There is a bug that allows for exploiting of this and with lag and fps drop you may feel perma-stunned but actually aren't, you still can't attack or heal during this so death is eminent.

james_vestbergb16_ESO

I quite frequently get a bug in Cyrodiil that prevents any action beeing taken, I can run around but not use skills and not even swing my weapon or weapon swap. The only thing that sometimes fixes it is pressing esc.

Anyone else gotten this?

This bug happening when you get knocked down could very well be the cause of not beeing able to cc-break? So pressing esc might help. Obviously one does not quite have the time to do it before one is dead, but still what do you guys think?

R1ckyDaMan

I was told invasion followed by talons caused this, after I commented about how well it seemed to work.

Siliconhobbit_ESO

While this combination works wonders in PvE, I've yet to try it in PvP:

Invasion, Burning Talons, Power Bash.

This combination in PvE knocks down the mob, locks them in place with Talons and then stuns them for 12 seconds.

Do it in that order and the damage from Talons will not break the stun, and will continue to damage the mob.

If you Power Bash BEFORE Talons, the damage from Talons will break the stun, allowing you to further escape the CC of Talons with a roll dodge.