How Many players in ESO currently?

Sallington

magnusnet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Statistics taken from Raptr'. Not all the gamers use Raptr,

Up until now I had not even heard of Raptr, not planing on using it any time soon.

Program comes with Catalyst so people using AMD video cards with updated catalyst are more likely to have it installed.

No matter how many people use it, it still acts like a survey does. Taking a small amount of the population and observing what they are playing.

Bolded the important parts. Judging by "what's your build" threads, most people are running Nvidia cards, and have no idea what Raptr is. I've never heard of it either and I've been gaming on PC since 2002ish. Maybe less than half of AMD users use it.

And I agree. It's a SMALL amount of the population.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

TehMagnus

Swampster wrote: »

I thought I'd have a look at some other sites that might give some indication of trends, to see if the "calls of imminent doom" held any weight.. and I'm pretty shocked to be honest!

Considering the Raptr detail mentioned previously, I looked at a couple of other game hours logging apps.

Surprisingly it doesn't appear in Steams Top 100 Stats list...
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english

Yet games such as Defiance do...

And it's way down in 71st on the Xfire Hours played list...
http://social.xfire.com/games

While not pronouncing the imminent demise of the game, those stats can't be a good indicator for a game not yet 6 month old.

Yes the overall figures for ZoS will improve once the console versions release, but bearing in mind there's probably a good number of PC players taking advantage of the 'switch over' offer made once they were delayed it makes the PC situation look even worse going forward!

At last someone open minded enough to look for more facts instead of living in denial.

Totally agree it doesn't look good .


I wouldn't put too much trust into steam data though. Many people (including myself) who own a steam account bought the game before it was on steam so we are steam users but don't use the game through steam.

BBSooner

So wait, a 3rd party counter said 750k + were playing (to which multiple people raced to the forums to post about). Which 3rd party are we supposed to trust again? Or do we just choose the one that fits our rhetoric and tout it as infallible.

nerevarine1138

magnusnet wrote: »

People asking for numbers:

June 2014:
http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/these-are-the-most-played-pc-games/

July 2014:
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-july-2014-summers-winners-and-losers/

Statistics taken from Raptr'. Not all the gamers use Raptr, just as not all TV watchers have the box that tells what they are watching and gives rating information, still it's like a survey, and to some extend represents the % of people playing each game. As you can see, TESO is at the bottom of the chart in June and isn't even in the chart in July.

No indication on numbers of how many player are actually playing ESO but, WIldstar's population has been estimated to be around 600k to 1 million players.

Eso is clearly under that. Even more people play Civilisation V than TESO.

Tell me again there are hundreds of thousands playing this please.

"Not all gamers use Raptr."

Try most gamers have never even heard of it.

Claiming that that the relative number of gamers using an unheard of service while playing their games reflects actual server population is like claiming that Fox News ratings can be used to determine election results.

If you really believe the game is failing so badly, I have an easy solution for you: go away. Quit. Show us just how many people are leaving the game by leaving yourself. Surely we'll all notice the large dip in the population when all the people who can "see the truth" pack their bags and leave.

TehMagnus

BBSooner wrote: »

So wait, a 3rd party counter said 750k + were playing (to which multiple people raced to the forums to post about). Which 3rd party are we supposed to trust again? Or do we just choose the one that fits our rhetoric and tout it as infallible.

The 3rd party who took numbers out of nowhere, refused to say where they got their numbers and everybody said you couldn't trust?

At least here we know how the numbers are retrieved: Hours played.

AlexDougherty

magnusnet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Bleakraven wrote: »

Well, you're kind of arguing against yourself. You're only taking into account the people you see online and around your zone, not counting Cyrodiil, etc. The game is doing fine, really.

If the game was doing fine:
- ZOS would publish a recap of how many players the game has to prove it's awesome and many people are playing it and that it beats this and that game.
- They wouldn't be implementing new Areas to try to keep people from leaving once they hit level cap and have gotten all the best sets from trial runs.
- They wouldn't be trying to lure people in (loyalty rewards, pets with steam purchase, selling the special editions for an even longer time than originally planed).

If game is doing well all they have to do is publish numbers, that would make criticism go down and maybe even bring more players in because "if x people play it, it must be good!".

The fact they aren't doing it is actually kinda scary because it means that even if they cheat to a reasonable extend where it's actually believable (who's gonna go check if they say the truth? On the other hand if they claim to have more than 500k weekly users everybody knows it's BS) numbers would still be bad.

Nope, a number of flawed assumptions here.

1. Firstly ZOS doesn't need to prove anything.
2. Secondly Tracking the figures is usually misleading.
3. Thirdly, of course they would be adding new areas, every MMO adds new stuff regularly. MMOs that don't add new stuff die.
4. Fourthly, of course they would be trying to lure people in, even WOW tries to get new players. An MMO wants new players, otherwise it's just a matter of time before they pull the plug.
5. Fifthly, who the hell plays a game because so many people play it, if it was we would all be playing Korean MMOs.
6. Sixthly, only ZOS knows the actual numbers, all the figures on the internet are either derived figures or just plain made up, and as such highly dubious.

June 2014:
http://www.lazygamer.net/general-news/these-are-the-most-played-pc-games/

July 2014:
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-july-2014-summers-winners-and-losers/

Real statistics that don't lie. People play more Skyrim, Civ 5 and even SWTOR than TESO.

Statiscs lie all the time, that's why politicians are so fond of them, they can be made to say anything.

Now I'm not saying those figures are false, what I am saying is they rely on a number of assumptions, which may or maynot be true, thus meaning we have no idea if the statistic is correct, or even in the ball park of the correct numbers.

TehMagnus

Sallington wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Statistics taken from Raptr'. Not all the gamers use Raptr,

Up until now I had not even heard of Raptr, not planing on using it any time soon.

Program comes with Catalyst so people using AMD video cards with updated catalyst are more likely to have it installed.

No matter how many people use it, it still acts like a survey does. Taking a small amount of the population and observing what they are playing.

Bolded the important parts. Judging by "what's your build" threads, most people are running Nvidia cards, and have no idea what Raptr is. I've never heard of it either and I've been gaming on PC since 2002ish. Maybe less than half of AMD users use it.

And I agree. It's a SMALL amount of the population.

Do you know that voting surveys are done by asking 1000 or 2000 people what they intend to vote?

Out of a 60 million population that's 0.0033% (let's say 30 million people vote it's still 0,0066%) of the population aka SMALL amount and still it's the numbers we get on news.

As I said (and I'm bolding out the important part here since it seems it helps you) It's just like a survey

Keep living in denial

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Nazon_Katts

Swampster wrote: »

I thought I'd have a look at some other sites that might give some indication of trends, to see if the "calls of imminent doom" held any weight.. and I'm pretty shocked to be honest!

Considering the Raptr detail mentioned previously, I looked at a couple of other game hours logging apps.

Surprisingly it doesn't appear in Steams Top 100 Stats list...
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/?l=english

Yet games such as Defiance do...

And it's way down in 71st on the Xfire Hours played list...
http://social.xfire.com/games

While not pronouncing the imminent demise of the game, those stats can't be a good indicator for a game not yet 6 month old.

Yes the overall figures for ZoS will improve once the console versions release, but bearing in mind there's probably a good number of PC players taking advantage of the 'switch over' offer made once they were delayed it makes the PC situation look even worse going forward!

Here's ESO: http://www.steamcharts.com/app/306130

TequilaFire

I just don't understand why some people spend so much energy trying to prove a game is dying. I mean what is the point? If it dies it dies. (Which it won't.)
I suppose because Destiny releases today we will see a slight drop for a while
because even I will be trying that out, so I expect more gloom and doom threads
this week because of it.

Try spending the energy actually playing the game.

BBSooner

magnusnet wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

So wait, a 3rd party counter said 750k + were playing (to which multiple people raced to the forums to post about). Which 3rd party are we supposed to trust again? Or do we just choose the one that fits our rhetoric and tout it as infallible.

The 3rd party who took numbers out of nowhere, refused to say where they got their numbers and everybody said you couldn't trust?

At least here we know how the numbers are retrieved: Hours played.

Hours played on 'raptr'?!? Are niche products with minute customer bases platforms for evidence regarding total population now? Pick your poison with 3rd party numbers, I'm sure yours is the one that's true ... lol.

Sallington

magnusnet wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Statistics taken from Raptr'. Not all the gamers use Raptr,

Up until now I had not even heard of Raptr, not planing on using it any time soon.

Program comes with Catalyst so people using AMD video cards with updated catalyst are more likely to have it installed.

No matter how many people use it, it still acts like a survey does. Taking a small amount of the population and observing what they are playing.

Bolded the important parts. Judging by "what's your build" threads, most people are running Nvidia cards, and have no idea what Raptr is. I've never heard of it either and I've been gaming on PC since 2002ish. Maybe less than half of AMD users use it.

And I agree. It's a SMALL amount of the population.

Do you know that voting surveys are done by asking 1000 or 2000 people what they intend to vote?

Out of a 60 million population that's 0.0033% (let's say 30 million people vote it's still 0,0066%) of the population aka SMALL amount and still it's the numbers we get on news.

As I said (and I'm bolding out the important part here since it seems it helps you) It's just like a survey

Keep living in denial

You're basically saying that the info here is a small sample size, meaning that there are many more people playing than is being shown in these samples.

You do realize that's what you're saying right? I feel like you are trying to argue against yourself.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

TehMagnus

BBSooner wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

So wait, a 3rd party counter said 750k + were playing (to which multiple people raced to the forums to post about). Which 3rd party are we supposed to trust again? Or do we just choose the one that fits our rhetoric and tout it as infallible.

The 3rd party who took numbers out of nowhere, refused to say where they got their numbers and everybody said you couldn't trust?

At least here we know how the numbers are retrieved: Hours played.

Hours played on 'raptr'?!? Are niche products with minute customer bases platforms for evidence regarding total population now? Pick your poison with 3rd party numbers, I'm sure yours is the one that's true ... lol.

If you care to read, there are also Xfire and Steam statistics (2k players peak last week xD) which all concur with Raptr's analysis. Moreover, League of Legends is (or at least was since DOTA 2 is catching up) the most played MMOG in the world and WOW the most player MMORPG which is shown in Raptr's statistics (So I guess the niche 3rd party product that gives statistics based on the user's playtime isn't totally wrong?).

Do YOU have any kind of survey that explains how they did their count that shows TESO having a healthy and high number of players?

Zorrashi

You know numbers (even made up ones) are fine and all, but why exactly does one feel the need to broadcast it? Even if your right there will be nothing for you to prove, really. Games come and go all the time.

If it is meant to die, then let it die. But um...why do you want to rain on our parade? We are (or most of us anyway) just trying to play the game. No one likes a party crasher.

Talrenos

dharbert wrote: »

Hey, OP? What happens when this game doesn't die? Do you still drink the Kool-Aid? Please drink the Kool-Aid.

What happens when it does? DO you come back and admit you were wrong? Nope, you just pretend it never existed and slink away.

I gave this a shot, now its just crumbling away. Poor decisions by ZOS, horrid implementation of half baked systems that don't interact well with each other, incredible lag in cryodiil when more than 20 players get together.... I could go on and on, however the rate that ZOS is fixing things is too slow to retain people. Example: Mundus stone effects were fixed in 1.1,1.2,1.3.1.31 patches, the exact same issue each time, but ZOS is unable to repair it. I seriously doubt if they cannot fix a small issue like an effect on a character, how are they going to fix huge cryodiil lag issues?

I have lost all faith in ZOS, and when I start looking around at primetime hours, Im seeing less and less players. I see posts here from people complaining about entire guilds just up and leaving the game. Single players already mentioning how their friends left and they are the only one left. Yes, Its coming, something is going to happen. The game cannot sustain itself with the few subscribers it has. Devs need to get paid, rent is expensive on offices, electricity is not cheap. Did you know that ZOS has two office locations? I guarantee those are not rent-controlled locations. Running this game costs MONEY. If a point is reached where it costs more to run it than its bringing in, then the company will do something about it. They could lay off more people (Already been done twice now), CLose unneeded offices, or a whole host of things to bring the cost down. We see a game, ZOS sees a BUSINESS. Businesses need to make a profit. We provide the profit to ZOS.

I know numbers are relative to the person slinging them about, and to be fair, I did start off stating that I DO NOT KNOW the numbers. But I do know I see less and less people every time I login. I have had to leave 3 guilds due to inactive membership, they certainly did not start that way. I know that when I head off to do quests, I only see maybe 3 other players per hour outside the cities. SOmetimes I see no one at all for quite a long time. It was not this way 2 months ago, and 3 months ago I would not even consider making such a post.
Now I do, so when I say ESO is dying, that is my OPINION based on what I see (or rather don't see)

I could prolly write up an add-on to actually start making counts of people, and gather actual data, but its not worth my time to do so. Since ZOS does not care any longer, I don't care either.

TehMagnus

Sallington wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Statistics taken from Raptr'. Not all the gamers use Raptr,

Up until now I had not even heard of Raptr, not planing on using it any time soon.

Just because you're an ignorant (by your own admition) doesn't mean the stats are less true . Program comes with Catalyst so people using AMD video cards with updated catalyst are more likely to have it installed.

No matter how many people use it, it still acts like a survey does. Taking a small amount of the population and observing what they are playing.

Bolded the important parts. Judging by "what's your build" threads, most people are running Nvidia cards, and have no idea what Raptr is. I've never heard of it either and I've been gaming on PC since 2002ish. Maybe less than half of AMD users use it.

And I agree. It's a SMALL amount of the population.

Do you know that voting surveys are done by asking 1000 or 2000 people what they intend to vote?

Out of a 60 million population that's 0.0033% (let's say 30 million people vote it's still 0,0066%) of the population aka SMALL amount and still it's the numbers we get on news.

As I said (and I'm bolding out the important part here since it seems it helps you) It's just like a survey

Keep living in denial

You're basically saying that the info here is a small sample size, meaning that there are many more people playing than is being shown in these samples.

You do realize that's what you're saying right? I feel like you are trying to argue against yourself.

Have you ever done Maths @ school? Do you even understand what those charts mean?

Of course it's small sample and of course many more people play and more hours are spent but the PERCENTAGE of hours played / people playing is PROPORTIONAL to the amount presented in those charts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_methodology <= Educational purposes.

Swampster

I'm not claiming the figures for each are individually accurate, and not professing imminent doom either.. but from 3 separate sources, all of which don't show ESO doing remarkably well in comparison to it's peers.

But they can be reasonably assumed to be a decent indicator of trends when looked at together..

Especially when in comparison to other games on the market that are listed in the same stats.. as the same fallibilities apply to those titles too.

BBSooner

magnusnet wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

So wait, a 3rd party counter said 750k + were playing (to which multiple people raced to the forums to post about). Which 3rd party are we supposed to trust again? Or do we just choose the one that fits our rhetoric and tout it as infallible.

The 3rd party who took numbers out of nowhere, refused to say where they got their numbers and everybody said you couldn't trust?

At least here we know how the numbers are retrieved: Hours played.

Hours played on 'raptr'?!? Are niche products with minute customer bases platforms for evidence regarding total population now? Pick your poison with 3rd party numbers, I'm sure yours is the one that's true ... lol.

If you care to read, there are also Xfire and Steam statistics (2k players peak last week xD) which all concur with Raptr's analysis. Moreover, League of Legends is (or at least was since DOTA 2 is catching up) the most played MMOG in the world and WOW the most player MMORPG which is shown in Raptr's statistics (So I guess the niche 3rd party product that gives statistics based on the user's playtime isn't totally wrong?).

Do YOU have any kind of survey that explains how they did their count that shows TESO having a healthy and high number of players?

I do not, numbers not taken from the source - especially with regards to how fragmented your evidence proves the process is - are unreliable at best. Like I said, grab whatever sources you need to spin your rhetoric, you can even bury your head when you come across the high counts, just don't fool yourself into thinking that "evidence" gives you a legitimate idea of how well or how poorly the game is doing.

Thechemicals

Many kids populate those boards. They can keep playing dota if itll keep them away from EsO.

mutharex

@magnusnet yeah the game is dying, I were in you I'd quit right now before it's too late AND delete my forum account. Especially the second part, that's the most important one

Xexpo

Over 9,000

Thechemicals

724,651.

TehMagnus

BBSooner wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

So wait, a 3rd party counter said 750k + were playing (to which multiple people raced to the forums to post about). Which 3rd party are we supposed to trust again? Or do we just choose the one that fits our rhetoric and tout it as infallible.

The 3rd party who took numbers out of nowhere, refused to say where they got their numbers and everybody said you couldn't trust?

At least here we know how the numbers are retrieved: Hours played.

Hours played on 'raptr'?!? Are niche products with minute customer bases platforms for evidence regarding total population now? Pick your poison with 3rd party numbers, I'm sure yours is the one that's true ... lol.

If you care to read, there are also Xfire and Steam statistics (2k players peak last week xD) which all concur with Raptr's analysis. Moreover, League of Legends is (or at least was since DOTA 2 is catching up) the most played MMOG in the world and WOW the most player MMORPG which is shown in Raptr's statistics (So I guess the niche 3rd party product that gives statistics based on the user's playtime isn't totally wrong?).

Do YOU have any kind of survey that explains how they did their count that shows TESO having a healthy and high number of players?

I do not, numbers not taken from the source - especially with regards to how fragmented your evidence proves the process is - are unreliable at best. Like I said, grab whatever sources you need to spin your rhetoric, you can even bury your head when you come across the high counts, just don't fool yourself into thinking that "evidence" gives you a legitimate idea of how well or how poorly the game is doing.

It's not unreliable, once again it's just like a survey. You take small amounts of players from all horizonts and see what they play and how long. Numbers show that most popular games are on top and TESO is at thee bottom if even present.

NUMBERS from a % of players.

Not Denial bla bla without any proof.

Nazon_Katts

Hm, seems Superdata removed the ESO part from the blog report.

TehMagnus

mutharex wrote: »

@magnusnet yeah the game is dying, I were in you I'd quit right now before it's too late AND delete my forum account. Especially the second part, that's the most important one

Nah, on the contrary we should just accept the fact that launch of "the next best thing" was a failure and we should try to see why it failed, why so many people left and how to fix it.

People in denial saying everything is peachy is one of the main issues we have.

Rosveen

magnusnet wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Statistics taken from Raptr'. Not all the gamers use Raptr,

Up until now I had not even heard of Raptr, not planing on using it any time soon.

Just because you're an ignorant (by your own admition) doesn't mean the stats are less true . Program comes with Catalyst so people using AMD video cards with updated catalyst are more likely to have it installed.

No matter how many people use it, it still acts like a survey does. Taking a small amount of the population and observing what they are playing.

Bolded the important parts. Judging by "what's your build" threads, most people are running Nvidia cards, and have no idea what Raptr is. I've never heard of it either and I've been gaming on PC since 2002ish. Maybe less than half of AMD users use it.

And I agree. It's a SMALL amount of the population.

Do you know that voting surveys are done by asking 1000 or 2000 people what they intend to vote?

Out of a 60 million population that's 0.0033% (let's say 30 million people vote it's still 0,0066%) of the population aka SMALL amount and still it's the numbers we get on news.

As I said (and I'm bolding out the important part here since it seems it helps you) It's just like a survey

Keep living in denial

You're basically saying that the info here is a small sample size, meaning that there are many more people playing than is being shown in these samples.

You do realize that's what you're saying right? I feel like you are trying to argue against yourself.

Have you ever done Maths @ school? Do you even understand what those charts mean?

Of course it's small sample and of course many more people play and more hours are spent but the PERCENTAGE of hours played / people playing is PROPORTIONAL to the amount presented in those charts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_methodology <= Educational purposes.

Maybe you should spend a little more time browsing Wikipedia and learn something about selection bias.

TehMagnus

http://connachttribune.ie/galway-jobs-blow-300-gone-software-firm/

300 people fired by ZOS from Customer support.

(*) (*) Game is going peachy (*) (*)

Aett_Thorn

magnusnet wrote: »

http://connachttribune.ie/galway-jobs-blow-300-gone-software-firm/

300 people fired by ZOS from Customer support.

(*) (*) Game is going peachy (*) (*)

Sigh. You know that this has been discussed and disregarded as an actually useful bit of info since it was first posted back in June, right? These people were hired to be customer support for the initial release, and the console release, which got pushed back. Why would you keep people on for the console release when it got pushed back?

TehMagnus

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

@magnusnet yeah the game is dying, I were in you I'd quit right now before it's too late AND delete my forum account. Especially the second part, that's the most important one

Nah, on the contrary we should just accept the fact that launch of "the next best thing" was a failure and we should try to see why it failed, why so many people left and how to fix it.

People in denial saying everything is peachy is one of the main issues we have.

I agree people who like the game are a big problem here.

I like the game, yet I'm not afraid to see the truth.

Why are you?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

magnusnet wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

@magnusnet yeah the game is dying, I were in you I'd quit right now before it's too late AND delete my forum account. Especially the second part, that's the most important one

Nah, on the contrary we should just accept the fact that launch of "the next best thing" was a failure and we should try to see why it failed, why so many people left and how to fix it.

People in denial saying everything is peachy is one of the main issues we have.

I agree people who like the game are a big problem here.

I like the game, yet I'm not afraid to see the truth.

Why are you?

Which is what? I don't see a comment in this thread i have made disputing anything in any of the numbers you have posted.

I have made 2 post in this thread both at some of the amusing things people have said. And you do have to admit, saying people who like the game are a problem is pretty amusing.

Why so defensive?

Aett_Thorn

I like the game, am not afraid to see the truth, and am also not afraid enough to believe every little conspiracy just because it happens to agree with my preconceived notion for how I think things are going.