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Item set variety among other things
derpsticks
✭✭✭✭
I have been searching many guild kiosks today for all sorts of items and I'm finding that there is a distinct lack in the variety of sets that are widely available.
Obviously there are PVE and PVP sets available from trials and for purchase with AP. Apparently, the PVP sets are a grab bag of sorts and it can take thousands or hundreds of thousands of AP to finally get the item that you've been waiting for. I personally don't PVP much but would find this to be one of the most annoying aspects of the game.
I'd describe this aspect of the game as being along the same lines as going to a restaurant, not looking at the menu, letting the waitress decide which meal you will be eating, all while knowing in the back of your mind that you are allergic to half of what the restaurant makes and dislike another quarter of it. But you already spent your AP when you walked in the door so there is no turning back.
No wonder out of all of the guild stores I've searched I saw maybe a total of 15 PVP set items that someone bought to sell outside of cyrodiil. I'm not including "Pact's" "Dominion's" or "Covenant's" xyz. I'm referring to sets like "Armor of Truth", "Durok's Bane", "Kyne's Kiss", "Hawk's Eye", "Almalexia's Mercy", "Desert Rose", etc.
These sets are so uncommon that either their prices are outrageous, no one has ever heard of the set, or crickets.
Currently, I am getting very sick of seeing the same listings for the same sets over and over again. I've noticed that there is a huge influx of VR11 Way of the Fire and Way of the Air set pieces practically falling out of guild stores as everyone and their brother tries to sell their own 6 pieces of the set for maybe a few hundred gold if that.
Not to mention the sheer quantity of Ice Furnace and Storm Knight pieces cluttering up every search for heavy armor ever (I'll give you one guess as to why these sets seem to accumulate the way they do). The abrupt stop at VR10, where some sets don't come in VR11/12 doesn't help either. Those sets in VR10 can be rarer yet compounding the apparent lack in diversity on guild stores. (everyone buys the same select few things while leaving the waste behind to rot for the next 30 days).
What about the completely dysfunctional ring and amulet drop rates for every armor set that actually has them? I've seen VR10 jewelry sell for 10k easy. Being sold by, no doubt in my mind, a VR12 who has been farming (with ease) VR10 zones for the sole purpose of selling a VR10 set piece to a VR10 at a crazy inflated price.
Maybe there are way more sets than I ever see in the game, but shield selection is always very limited everywhere I go. There does not seem to be more than a few rather uninteresting or mundane sets that include a shield. Let alone sets that include a shield that is a common enough drop to even see more than 2 versions of it in the wrong VR rank at any given time.
Why aren't set weapon and armor traits random? You'd think that would add a little bit more zing while shopping guild stores? Finding that just right or just shy of perfect item in other games has always given me immense levels of enthusiasm and joy. Here is ESO you just know ahead of time that a specific item will always be that same mundane version of itself. It lacks that feeling of discovering the item all over again, where by the 5th time you've seen the item in a slightly different form it finally clicks in your mind what the possibilities are.
By at least randomizing the traits on set pieces there would be a little more variety. (at the very least have each set drop with 3-4 different trait possibilities). Yes there would be even more competition for specific traits over others, but to me the variance in demand is much better than the entire supply being choked because every player "need's" that one item. Randomize the traits, let the crazies fight over the "good" ones, while I snag the 300g "throw away" that no one wants because it doesn't give me 5 more magic per hour, thus preventing me for being accepted into some secret guild. Nope, don't need that, just wanted the cool set bonus for a few levels/quests moving on from there.
I would love to see a listing count or bar for each vendor before I click on them. I would also love it if interacting with a vendor would just skip the dialog, go directly to the store, and place the bidding option inside the store somewhere for those who are placing bids.
Can you at least give me a few minor indicators of what each guild store is selling? For instance, let me see a few bars that represent the proportional quantity of items in a type of items with respect to every other type. The bars would not indicate quantity itself, but proportions of quantity (to prevent skipping the store altogether due to low number of listings). So the crafting section might have 2000 listings, while the weapons might have 200, and the armors have 400, so the bars I would see as i pass by would be filled 10 to 1 to 2.
I imagine that looking at the store vendor could show this information as part of their health bar. Maybe each player could set which bars they see for vendors if they are specifically looking for light armor for instance (Obviously limiting how narrow a selection one can set).
I realize this is a giant wall of text and that this kinda devolved into a rant of sorts in certain areas but it still touches on most of what I set out to say. I still do have many many more things to say about the game. I am by no means fed up or angry or disgruntled with ESO. I love ESO and want it to last for a very long time. Look forward to hearing some responses.
TLDR: Guild stores are constantly overstocked with the same craptastic sets and items for a variety of reasons and have limited stock of many other sets or desired / wanted items. Set item's traits should be randomized a bit so the "good" traited items sell well to those willing to pay and any "bad" traited items are still available but at a lower cost. Plus give guild store vendors a visual indicator that informs people what kind of items each store is selling before they check the store.
Obviously there are PVE and PVP sets available from trials and for purchase with AP. Apparently, the PVP sets are a grab bag of sorts and it can take thousands or hundreds of thousands of AP to finally get the item that you've been waiting for. I personally don't PVP much but would find this to be one of the most annoying aspects of the game.
I'd describe this aspect of the game as being along the same lines as going to a restaurant, not looking at the menu, letting the waitress decide which meal you will be eating, all while knowing in the back of your mind that you are allergic to half of what the restaurant makes and dislike another quarter of it. But you already spent your AP when you walked in the door so there is no turning back.
No wonder out of all of the guild stores I've searched I saw maybe a total of 15 PVP set items that someone bought to sell outside of cyrodiil. I'm not including "Pact's" "Dominion's" or "Covenant's" xyz. I'm referring to sets like "Armor of Truth", "Durok's Bane", "Kyne's Kiss", "Hawk's Eye", "Almalexia's Mercy", "Desert Rose", etc.
These sets are so uncommon that either their prices are outrageous, no one has ever heard of the set, or crickets.
Currently, I am getting very sick of seeing the same listings for the same sets over and over again. I've noticed that there is a huge influx of VR11 Way of the Fire and Way of the Air set pieces practically falling out of guild stores as everyone and their brother tries to sell their own 6 pieces of the set for maybe a few hundred gold if that.
Not to mention the sheer quantity of Ice Furnace and Storm Knight pieces cluttering up every search for heavy armor ever (I'll give you one guess as to why these sets seem to accumulate the way they do). The abrupt stop at VR10, where some sets don't come in VR11/12 doesn't help either. Those sets in VR10 can be rarer yet compounding the apparent lack in diversity on guild stores. (everyone buys the same select few things while leaving the waste behind to rot for the next 30 days).
What about the completely dysfunctional ring and amulet drop rates for every armor set that actually has them? I've seen VR10 jewelry sell for 10k easy. Being sold by, no doubt in my mind, a VR12 who has been farming (with ease) VR10 zones for the sole purpose of selling a VR10 set piece to a VR10 at a crazy inflated price.
Maybe there are way more sets than I ever see in the game, but shield selection is always very limited everywhere I go. There does not seem to be more than a few rather uninteresting or mundane sets that include a shield. Let alone sets that include a shield that is a common enough drop to even see more than 2 versions of it in the wrong VR rank at any given time.
Why aren't set weapon and armor traits random? You'd think that would add a little bit more zing while shopping guild stores? Finding that just right or just shy of perfect item in other games has always given me immense levels of enthusiasm and joy. Here is ESO you just know ahead of time that a specific item will always be that same mundane version of itself. It lacks that feeling of discovering the item all over again, where by the 5th time you've seen the item in a slightly different form it finally clicks in your mind what the possibilities are.
By at least randomizing the traits on set pieces there would be a little more variety. (at the very least have each set drop with 3-4 different trait possibilities). Yes there would be even more competition for specific traits over others, but to me the variance in demand is much better than the entire supply being choked because every player "need's" that one item. Randomize the traits, let the crazies fight over the "good" ones, while I snag the 300g "throw away" that no one wants because it doesn't give me 5 more magic per hour, thus preventing me for being accepted into some secret guild. Nope, don't need that, just wanted the cool set bonus for a few levels/quests moving on from there.
I would love to see a listing count or bar for each vendor before I click on them. I would also love it if interacting with a vendor would just skip the dialog, go directly to the store, and place the bidding option inside the store somewhere for those who are placing bids.
Can you at least give me a few minor indicators of what each guild store is selling? For instance, let me see a few bars that represent the proportional quantity of items in a type of items with respect to every other type. The bars would not indicate quantity itself, but proportions of quantity (to prevent skipping the store altogether due to low number of listings). So the crafting section might have 2000 listings, while the weapons might have 200, and the armors have 400, so the bars I would see as i pass by would be filled 10 to 1 to 2.
I imagine that looking at the store vendor could show this information as part of their health bar. Maybe each player could set which bars they see for vendors if they are specifically looking for light armor for instance (Obviously limiting how narrow a selection one can set).
I realize this is a giant wall of text and that this kinda devolved into a rant of sorts in certain areas but it still touches on most of what I set out to say. I still do have many many more things to say about the game. I am by no means fed up or angry or disgruntled with ESO. I love ESO and want it to last for a very long time. Look forward to hearing some responses.
TLDR: Guild stores are constantly overstocked with the same craptastic sets and items for a variety of reasons and have limited stock of many other sets or desired / wanted items. Set item's traits should be randomized a bit so the "good" traited items sell well to those willing to pay and any "bad" traited items are still available but at a lower cost. Plus give guild store vendors a visual indicator that informs people what kind of items each store is selling before they check the store.
0
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think it's just that people don't want to travel out of the way for gear they are crafting to be sold.
Maybe if the market supported higher prices for crafted sets then they might be bothered, but since the general attitude is that people buy to research, it's unlikely to happen soon.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
derpsticks✭✭✭✭I wasn't even thinking about crafted sets. I personally can craft just about anything in the game, so wouldn't need to buy a set piece from the store. I think most people could say the same aside from a few traits or maybe one of the major crafts. Even if I can't craft something I need I've never considered crafted gear to be rare by any means. I wouldn't even think to search guild stores for a crafted piece. It is much more likely that someone will buy a freshly made piece by asking in chat. The problem with crafted sets listed in stores is no one knows exactly what traits people want. Most people I've seen selling crafted sets in store will default to divines, infused or impenetrable for obvious reasons.
The market won't even support higher prices for crafted gear unless there are some major changes made to the system. Just to name a few:
1. Lower the return rate of the base material when refining mats for each type of raw material starting with a higher rate for low level mats and progressively lowering it until the highest level raw material. Inverse rates for improvement materials, starting low and getting higher.
2. Make learning a trait not be the only requirement to craft that trait. Give each person a rank for each trait they learn (like skill ranks) that can only be improved by crafting gear with that trait. This way people who are dedicated crafters will actively improve the pieces that make and thus they will be more valuable than joe random's rank 1 traited item.
3. Have worlds events that block access to certain set crafting locations. For instance, a strong world boss might spawn at the location preventing people from crafting until killed. While this would probably make a lot of people mad because they can't get their set piece right away it would give crafters an excuse to charge more for the item. Also make the boss drop an item that benefits crafters, something like a one time use upgrade from blue to purple or green to blue or very rarely to epic.
4. Allow crafters to improve anything they've made for anyone else in the game, even if that item is bound. This way people would come back for an improvement to a piece of armor you've made them. Say for instance they want to upgrade to purple but don't have the mats or couldn't afford it earlier or have the mats but not the skill.
There are a million things that could be done to improve the economy for crafters in this game.0 -
Draxuul✭✭✭i`ve read about half way through the OP, it seems to me like you are forgeting about the crafted sets.
Some of those are rarely seen because some of them require the crafter to have 6, 7 or 8 researched traits for each item of the set that they want to create.
And at 6 traits , the research time is about a week in real time , so i can onlu assume that getting at your last trait , that would probably be two weeks or more of research time .
Not a lot of people are willing to go through that .
So far i`m at a minimum of 5 researched traits on everything , Heavy armor only, and one piece is at 6 and one piece is at 7 and i still have a hell of a long way to go before all of them are at 8 and i can finaly start crafting the best stuff.
But yeah it seems to me like your guilds are only selling the stuff that they loot.
As a crafter myself i would be somewhat unwilling to simply craft a bunch of sets to put them on the guild stores.
I would be much more inclined to wait for someone to give me a specific order of exactly what they want, which traits they want for each piece , which set they want and whether they have specific requests as to which pieces should be part of a set and which pieces should be part of another set , things like that.
There are so many ways that you can customize your gear as a crafter and some of the best materials can be rather hard to find or expensive to buy so whenever we craft something, we want to make sure that it will sell.
So my advice to you is, if you can`t find anything you like in the guild stores, ask around for crafters and ask them what sets they`re able to make .
Or even better, go to every zones, visit all of the set crafting stations and look for a set that you want, once you find it , find yourself someone who can craft it for you , or simply become a crafter yourself , work on your craft for about a month or more and then you`ll be able to make your own gear and you`ll never wear a piece that doesn`t have your own name on it i assure you .
DraxuulBe who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .0 -
derpsticks✭✭✭✭@Draxuul
Please read the full thread before posting next time, it would have saved you a lot of typing.
AlexDougherty commented on the crafted set topic and I responded.
I basically said most of the things you've mentioned so I'll take it that my second post above is a fairly accurate assessment of the crafter's economy.
I am not specifically limiting myself to searching within my own guild stores. When I posted this I must have just searched through the contents of about 4-6 zones worth of guild vendors plus my own guilds (I am in a two 500 person trading guilds, one with about 350, and one with around 250). At the very least I went through about 20-30% of the entire world's guild stores.
So despite initially forgetting to comment on crafted sets, the discussion above is still valid. With you having essentially confirmed my response to AlexDougherty, it is really a moot point that I forgot to mention them in the first place because I unconsciously disregarded the notion of crafted sets in guild stores as would the majority of players.
I don't get your point regarding my guild selling mostly stuff they loot. You basically said that my guilds were not selling crafted sets, and then go on to say that you yourself as a crafter are not inclined to sell crafted sets on the guild store. You make it seem like my guild should be selling lots of crafted sets, yet you explain exactly the reason why they don't.
This post is about the lack of variety in the sets available from guild stores overall. As mentioned previously, assume that crafted sets don't count because they are both widely available and better sold via chat. What I am really getting at is that most of the weapons and armor sold on the guild store are unwanted sets that sell for next to nothing. Even the "good" sets are severely limited, not in quantity but in variety. I would like the currently dropped sets to have at least some sort of random quality to them.
Furthermore, there should be 50-100 more sets available at the very least, even if they are not all that special. The game seems limited when I only see the same 10 sets listed over and over. There should be unique 2-7 piece sets with a huge variety of bonuses. Heck even a set that gives better chances to catch rare fish when fishing or another that lowers vendor repair costs. The list goes on.0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Not everything should be easy to obtain -_-V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Draxuul✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »Not everything should be easy to obtain -_-
What he said ^Be who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .1 -
Draxuul✭✭✭derpsticks wrote: »@Draxuul
Please read the full thread before posting next time, it would have saved you a lot of typing.
AlexDougherty commented on the crafted set topic and I responded.
I basically said most of the things you've mentioned so I'll take it that my second post above is a fairly accurate assessment of the crafter's economy.
I am not specifically limiting myself to searching within my own guild stores. When I posted this I must have just searched through the contents of about 4-6 zones worth of guild vendors plus my own guilds (I am in a two 500 person trading guilds, one with about 350, and one with around 250). At the very least I went through about 20-30% of the entire world's guild stores.
So despite initially forgetting to comment on crafted sets, the discussion above is still valid. With you having essentially confirmed my response to AlexDougherty, it is really a moot point that I forgot to mention them in the first place because I unconsciously disregarded the notion of crafted sets in guild stores as would the majority of players.
I don't get your point regarding my guild selling mostly stuff they loot. You basically said that my guilds were not selling crafted sets, and then go on to say that you yourself as a crafter are not inclined to sell crafted sets on the guild store. You make it seem like my guild should be selling lots of crafted sets, yet you explain exactly the reason why they don't.
This post is about the lack of variety in the sets available from guild stores overall. As mentioned previously, assume that crafted sets don't count because they are both widely available and better sold via chat. What I am really getting at is that most of the weapons and armor sold on the guild store are unwanted sets that sell for next to nothing. Even the "good" sets are severely limited, not in quantity but in variety. I would like the currently dropped sets to have at least some sort of random quality to them.
Furthermore, there should be 50-100 more sets available at the very least, even if they are not all that special. The game seems limited when I only see the same 10 sets listed over and over. There should be unique 2-7 piece sets with a huge variety of bonuses. Heck even a set that gives better chances to catch rare fish when fishing or another that lowers vendor repair costs. The list goes on.
Yeah ok my bad for not reading the whole thread .
But i`m confused with why you complain about the lack of different sets. Are you looking to get yourself a collection of sets ?? most of witch would only gather dust in the bank ?
You say you can craft pretty much everything in the game , so that means that you character doesn`t have an actual need for any of the sets you cannot craft.
The way i see this is, you can either craft your gear , earn your gear or loot your gear or buy your gear.
Then it`s just a matter of prefferances from one player to the next . Some prefer the item chase while others prefer the flexibility that crafting your own gear gives you while others rather earn points by doing pvp and then purchase it using those points.
But no matter which way you choose to get your gear , it`s all the same . Crafted gear is equivalent to earning it or looting it , only the sets aren`t the same but they are equivalent in power .
Why you even feel the need for more sets is beyond my understanding . Sounds more like greed than anything else to me .
Heck i`m using a set that only requires 4 traits per piece to craft and i love it so much that i can `t imagine myself ever switching to another set even when i reach Vr12 whether i have access to 8 traits sets or not . I`m feeling very attached to the one i have . I`ll craft better versions of the same set yes, to get better bonuses but i`m still very unsure as to whether i`ll be willing to start using a different one .
So yeah i don`t think i`ll ever be able to understand why you`re unhappy unless you really are looking to start collecting them for the sake of collecting them alone.
DraxuulBe who you want to be , do what you want to do, play the way you want to play.
The Prophet once said :``There is no perfect choice , there are only other choices. ``
Same goes for your build. There is no perfect build, there are only other builds.
My name is Draxuul and i approve this message .1