Fragmented Shield insanely overpowered

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

This thread builds up on a recent discussion we had in another thread:

Fragmented Shield:

Absorbs 300 Dmg (+100% on Caster)
Deals 220 Dmg (from up to 6 Targets and on up to 6 Targets currently)

Effect: 1 Fragmented Shield (in 6man+ group) absorbs 5*300+1*600 Dmg = 2100 Dmg but also deals 6*6*220Dmg = almost 8k of Dmg (!!!) when exploding from those 6 players!

This may be a problem that all "Absorb + return-Dmg-shield" may have, and why people are freaking out about them. If you are unable to see how that skill is completely out of line, compare with other, "normal" AoEs (which do about 2-3k Dmg when hitting 6 Targets) , or watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRjfluIqXMo

Credits also to xMovingTarget and to Tankqullb.

Hoping this will get fixed with 1.4, because as it currently is, the ones spamming Fragmented Shield are the winners of every fight, simply because the other group destroys itself or "needs to deal less dmg" in order not to do so.

JLB

Can only agree. Fragmented Shield is getting out of hands both in PvE and PvP.
Now that Blazing Shield exploit is getting fixed (finally), I wonder how long will it take for Devs to tune down the "group" version of Blazing Shield.
Devs: not another iWin DK skill for months, please. Please.

Domander

Blazing shield (not the bug) can easily do over 1k with 6+ enemies (each enemy makes shield stronger) that equals over 6k damage solo if it doesn't crit.

That's solo.

This is a group buff that requires a group fighting a group to reach full potential (And all be next to each other), I think it's fine.

Soliss

Well it's not like Zenimax knows WTF they are doing with ability balance... It seems like they have a serious lack of calculators over there and/or they don't really understand how their own game mechanics work.

Way too many loopholes and poorly designed abilities in this game.

Domander

Soliss wrote: »

Well it's not like Zenimax knows WTF they are doing with ability balance... It seems like they have a serious lack of calculators over there and/or they don't really understand how their own game mechanics work.

Way too many loopholes and poorly designed abilities in this game.

There are lots of ways for abilities to be more powerful, it doesn't mean they're unbalanced.

If it weren't for this, combat would be really dull. Which means it would also be boring.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

Domander wrote: »

Soliss wrote: »

Well it's not like Zenimax knows WTF they are doing with ability balance... It seems like they have a serious lack of calculators over there and/or they don't really understand how their own game mechanics work.

Way too many loopholes and poorly designed abilities in this game.

There are lots of ways for abilities to be more powerful, it doesn't mean they're unbalanced.

If it weren't for this, combat would be really dull. Which means it would also be boring.

You're generally right, but wrong in this specific case imo.

As it currently is, spamming Fragmented Shield deals just so much dmg., that no other skill (except maybe Blazing Shield) comes even close to it, and complete fights are decided by whom spams Fragmented Shield more, or more efficiently.

Dealing dmg. actively instead of passively has really become a way to lose, while dealing no dmg. and simply spamming Fragmented Shield has become the way to win.

JLB

Domander wrote: »

Blazing shield (not the bug) can easily do over 1k with 6+ enemies (each enemy makes shield stronger) that equals over 6k damage solo if it doesn't crit.

Just a couple things.
Blazing Shield never increased its stregth per enemy nearby. It never worked since launch, despite what the tooltip says.

And I think your maths are a bit off, tbh.
Average normal hits from a correctly working Blazing Shield are around
300-400ish damage.
If you do 1k on normal hits is because you have stacked the shield. Once it's fixed you won't (hopefully) have that problem anymore.

And well, I don't know what else to tell you, this is about Fragmented Shield and I think the video speaks by itself.

tplink3r1

Domander wrote: »

Blazing shield (not the bug) can easily do over 1k with 6+ enemies (each enemy makes shield stronger) that equals over 6k damage solo if it doesn't crit.

That's solo.

This is a group buff that requires a group fighting a group to reach full potential (And all be next to each other), I think it's fine.

it does not get incresed, stop lying.

Domander

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Blazing shield (not the bug) can easily do over 1k with 6+ enemies (each enemy makes shield stronger) that equals over 6k damage solo if it doesn't crit.

That's solo.

This is a group buff that requires a group fighting a group to reach full potential (And all be next to each other), I think it's fine.

it does not get incresed, stop lying.

Well, it's supposed too..

I don't lie. I was going by the observation that it seems to do more damage with more enemies, that and the tooltip says it does... I guess I should know better by now.

Domander

It's powerful with a group, and all 6 are near all 6 enemies and the enemies are doing enough damage to all of them to pop all of the shields.

anyway, if a change is needed what do you all suggest? How would you change this ability?

I keep seeing threads complaining but they rarely have suggestions on how it could be better.

Yusuf

A bit off-topic, but people are still complaining about bolt escape while something like this exists-.-

xMovingTarget

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Credits to "Davadin" and to Tankqullb.

Why not to me for making and posting that video :P

It only works in a group situation and when said grp takes a lot of damage. Other than that impulse is better

Tankqull

Domander wrote: »

It's powerful with a group, and all 6 are near all 6 enemies and the enemies are doing enough damage to all of them to pop all of the shields.

anyway, if a change is needed what do you all suggest? How would you change this ability?

I keep seeing threads complaining but they rarely have suggestions on how it could be better.

connect the explosion to the shield of the dk himself, protected groupmember shields do no dmg. problem fixed.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

It only works in a group situation and when said grp takes a lot of damage. Other than that impulse is better

its not that much dmg needed
[thx to the crapy way of dmg-shield implementation]

JLB

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

connect the explosion to the shield of the dk himself, protected groupmember shields do no dmg. problem fixed.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

It only works in a group situation and when said grp takes a lot of damage. Other than that impulse is better

its not that much dmg needed

That seems to be the option. Having in mind ZOS' pace to fix obvious stuff, that will probably happen in 2017.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

xMovingTarget wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Credits to "Davadin" and to Tankqullb.

Why not to me for making and posting that video :P

It only works in a group situation and when said grp takes a lot of damage. Other than that impulse is better

Sry, I thought the video was made by Davadin, that's why I gave the wrong person Credits. Corrected that.

Regarding the situation of a group taking a lot of dmg.: That is the case in basically every PvP-situation when it gets hard, so Fragmented Shield in PvP is even more ueber than in PvE.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

It's powerful with a group, and all 6 are near all 6 enemies and the enemies are doing enough damage to all of them to pop all of the shields.

anyway, if a change is needed what do you all suggest? How would you change this ability?

I keep seeing threads complaining but they rarely have suggestions on how it could be better.

connect the explosion to the shield of the dk himself, protected groupmember shields do no dmg. problem fixed.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

It only works in a group situation and when said grp takes a lot of damage. Other than that impulse is better

its not that much dmg needed
[thx to the crapy way of dmg-shield implementation]

Then they can lower blazing shield down to do the same damage as 1 fragmented shield.

Fragmented shield also costs more magicka than blazing shield..

Kego

Breaking News, a shield for the hole Group costs more Magicka than a shield for only the player himself.

Tankqull

xMovingTarget wrote: »

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Credits to "Davadin" and to Tankqullb.

Why not to me for making and posting that video :P

It only works in a group situation and when said grp takes a lot of damage. Other than that impulse is better

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

It's powerful with a group, and all 6 are near all 6 enemies and the enemies are doing enough damage to all of them to pop all of the shields.

anyway, if a change is needed what do you all suggest? How would you change this ability?

I keep seeing threads complaining but they rarely have suggestions on how it could be better.

connect the explosion to the shield of the dk himself, protected groupmember shields do no dmg. problem fixed.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

It only works in a group situation and when said grp takes a lot of damage. Other than that impulse is better

its not that much dmg needed
[thx to the crapy way of dmg-shield implementation]

Then they can lower blazing shield down to do the same damage as 1 fragmented shield.

Fragmented shield also costs more magicka than blazing shield..

sure restrict the dmg shield to the dk no buffs to groupmembers or reduce the dmg to around 50 are options aswell^^

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Hilarious. Since you cant give any serious balancing thought, fragmented shield is going to get left alone and you can just deal with it.

Meanwhile your blazing shield bug is going to get the fix bat sooner or later. Fragmented shield is working as intended.

Tankqull

BS will be fixed next week with 1.4
none the less fragmented shield needs to be fixed aswell.

eliisra

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

BS will be fixed next week with 1.4
none the less fragmented shield needs to be fixed aswell.

Yeah this. Blazing Shield suffers from 2 different bugs as far as I know, making it deal insane 3k explosions if certain conditions are meet.

It's finally getting fixed. As a Templar I'm very happy about that, I dont want skills not working as intended or people reporting me for exploiting when the skill bugs out.

Fragmented Shield doesn't suffer from any bugs. It's just poorly designed and deals to much dmg if you stack with enough allies. For a solo DK, the dmg is perfectly fine. But when you shield 6 allies and they all explode on expiration, everyone around you melts. I mean do we really need more overtuned PBAoE promoting stacking and blobbing in PvP?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

OP has a bias or just plain magic number there for frag shield damage too. My fragmented shield does 169 damage.

In any case, learn to not impulse train and fragmented shield won't be that much of a problem for you. You can get YOUR groups dragonknights to do it too. Teamwork.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

More precisely, my fragmented shield hits for like 89 after mitigations.

xMovingTarget

eliisra wrote: »

I mean do we really need more overtuned PBAoE promoting stacking and blobbing in PvP?

We dont need that in PvE either. Almost every bossfight requires us to stack for the best optimized tactics.

In ESO :

Stack = Win

Plenty of People including me are complaining and whining for a while now. If something is hard, just stack and win. The skills we have at hand also are promoting heavy stacking in every situation. Makes it really boring.

guybrushtb16_ESO

JLB wrote: »

how long will it take for Devs to tune down the "group" version of Blazing Shield.
Devs: not another iWin DK skill for months, please. Please.

Wish granted. They don't make a new one but instead restore another iWin DK skill to power. Reflective Scale is also going to get "fixed" in 1.4.

JLB

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

JLB wrote: »

how long will it take for Devs to tune down the "group" version of Blazing Shield.
Devs: not another iWin DK skill for months, please. Please.

Wish granted. They don't make a new one but instead restore another iWin DK skill to power. Reflective Scale is also going to get "fixed" in 1.4.

Yep, I know. Amazing, isn't it?
And I wonder, where are the fixes that other classes have been needing since launch?
Way to priorice fixes, ZOS.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

Templars Spell-reflect had the same bug, and it got fixed first, so they probably simply fixed the DKs skill which had the exame faulty code just with it.

JLB

philip.ploegerb16_ESO wrote: »

Templars Spell-reflect had the same bug, and it got fixed first, so they probably simply fixed the DKs skill which had the exame faulty code just with it.

Eclipse. Totally important fix for the class. There are soooo many Templars complaining in the Forum about this bug since launch. So many.

Tamanous

Lol. I had already though of a gimic build based on this ability a while back. My avoidance of anything DK while they are the most OP class stopped me however.

Even way back in beta when I first read the DK abilities I was sitting back laughing at how OP and exploitive this class was/could be.

I like ESO but it sickens me that this game is little more than stack everyone on top of each other and win. I simply cannot understand how designers can think up an ability like this one and then go, "Yup ... sounds balanced" and put it in game. It takes any player with half a brain to instantly realize they WANT their group to stand in aoe damage so their automatic proc abilities simply destroy everyone around them.

wllstrt75b14_ESO

I pvp a ton and have never seen frag shield on my recap. I have seen blazing shields n bat swarm n rings a ton.

My point is that very rarely does the six damage shields explode all at the same Time in pvp.

In pve in trials I can see the gripe but will caution that only once in his video did it go for 9k it was usually around 2-3k.

You can't nerf a skill based on smart game play from a group because they beat your stupid pve trial time.

Frag shield is important to help slow n stop Zerg trains that spam swarm n rings in pvp.

philip.ploegerb16_ESO

wllstrt75b14_ESO wrote: »

I pvp a ton and have never seen frag shield on my recap. I have seen blazing shields n bat swarm n rings a ton.

My point is that very rarely does the six damage shields explode all at the same Time in pvp.

I also pvp a lot, and if I die, there's always either an oil, a fire-ballista or multiple fragmented shields on the recap.

It's not necessary that the shields explot all at the same time, the dmg of the skill is just so off the scale, it's 4-6 times ahead of every normal AE.